Would you rather have one massive hardcover Psionics book that has the Bestiary as part of it (everything in Psionics Unleashed and Psionics Expanded + everything in Psionic Bestiary) or one hardcover with everything but the monsters and then ALL psionic monsters in a separate book?
We're considering what we want to include in the hardcover next year and I'm wondering which option folks would rather have.
Would you rather have one massive hardcover Psionics book that has the Bestiary as part of it (everything in Psionics Unleashed and Psionics Expanded + everything in Psionic Bestiary) or one hardcover with everything but the monsters and then ALL psionic monsters in a separate book?
We're considering what we want to include in the hardcover next year and I'm wondering which option folks would rather have.
Well, if you Print-On-Demand you could do both and not have to choose and give both options. :-)
For purchase cost reasons I'd like 2 books. I can imagine just P:U+P:I in hard back is going to be expensive.
Do you have any costs or pricing estimates?
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I think the GMs might appreciate it if the bestiary wasn't included. Then the players won't know what hit them :)
That too.
I would probably prefer two books.
As a player, I don't really need the bestiary, all I need is the book with the stuff for character creation.
I, [i]personally[i], would prefer just the book with just the stuff for character creation in a PDF format.
For purchase cost reasons I'd like 2 books. I can imagine just P:U+P:I in hard back is going to be expensive.
Do you have any costs or pricing estimates?
Estimates for the printed book is somewhere in the $60 range. That's a ballpark, since we don't know yet what the actual printing cost is going to be.
And that's in B&W hardcover with the intent to allow retail stores to carry it.
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Funny for you to ask such a question because I had a similar idea a few days ago. PU includes about 25 pages of monsters, although using '1 page per monster' should increase that page count a bit. How big is the psionic bestiary going to be? In my opinion, a seperate monster compilation should have at least 100 pages to make it worthwhile.
In general I like the idea of dividing the compilation. It reminds me of the 'Core Rulebook plus Bestiary' core rules a certain RPG did.
Astral Constructs would be a problem but probably, but the same could probably be said about summon monster/nature's ally and polymorph.
Considering that a find my Core Rulebook and Tome of Horrors Complete rather unwieldy, I'd support the division.
How big is the psionic bestiary going to be?
Not counting what's already in Psionics Unleashed, we're expecting to have at least 50 monsters in the Bestiary. Every monster we release in other products (From the Deep, for example, and the Astral Swarm from Psionics Expanded) will be added into the Bestiary.
I'd love one big book which contains everything.
And a milkshake, but that's neither here nor there.
Would color be too prohibitive?
Color limits what we can do.
The raw printing cost for color hardcover of the size we're talking about is over $50 per book. That doesn't include shipping rates to get it from the printer.
Even if we charged $100 per book, we couldn't sell it here at the Paizo site, because of the consignment rate, shipping cost, and needing to factor in damages / lost books / returns / etc. Even if we charged $150 per book, we couldn't sell it to book stores because of the distributor discounts.
As much as I love psionics, I don't know that I could see someone paying over $150 for a ~450 page color book.
We're certainly considering a limited availability color option, but the cost increases dramatically.
Ok, no problem. Just having all of the info in one handy tome is enough.
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Not counting what's already in Psionics Unleashed, we're expecting to have at least 50 monsters in the Bestiary. Every monster we release in other products (From the Deep, for example, and the Astral Swarm from Psionics Expanded) will be added into the Bestiary.
That should be enough for a seperate softcover book. How about including conversions of 3.5 3PP monsters, similar to what Paizo did with the Bestiaries. Hyperconscious for example had some nice ones, although the PI restrictions are annoying. This might make the book large enough for a hardcover.
Would you rather have one massive hardcover Psionics book that has the Bestiary as part of it (everything in Psionics Unleashed and Psionics Expanded + everything in Psionic Bestiary) or one hardcover with everything but the monsters and then ALL psionic monsters in a separate book?
We're considering what we want to include in the hardcover next year and I'm wondering which option folks would rather have.
One big book of everything psionics? Count me in.
Which would be cheaper for you to produce? A mega-book like the one mentioned, or dividing the material into two; Psionics and Psionic bestiary?
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Interesting question. I think personally I'd prefer an all-in-one book. One: I like huge books. Two: I like the idea of a "for psionics go here" book. Three: there's likely a savings for all of us in a unified book; covers and bindings are probably more expensive than an incremental page-count increase.
All I ask for... is a top-notch kick-ass full-colour cover. Blow the bank, commission something truly great. Like Wayne Reynolds great. Something evocative and gripping. I'd like to be able to leave the book on my table and have players and fellow DMs gasp and want to pick it up and see what's inside. A picture is worth a thousand converts.
I'm pro-full color for .pdf's. For printed books, B&W is just peachy.
My strongest preference is separate books. I prefer monsters in one book, rules in the other.
How about including conversions of 3.5 3PP monsters, similar to what Paizo did with the Bestiaries.
That's something we're considering as part of the Bestiary project line.
All I ask for... is a top-notch kick-ass full-colour cover. Blow the bank, commission something truly great. Like Wayne Reynolds great. Something evocative and gripping. I'd like to be able to leave the book on my table and have players and fellow DMs gasp and want to pick it up and see what's inside. A picture is worth a thousand converts.
I don't know who they have slated to actually do the cover, but Rick Hershey's art has been consistently great.
Im with Cheapy. Two books so players are less tempted.
I don't know who they have slated to actually do the cover, but Rick Hershey's art has been consistently great.
I'm really not trying to poop in anyone's Rice Crispies, but the cover of - for instance - Psionics Unleashed... doesn't inspire anyone in any of my groups. It's four random characters drawn in a mostly cartoon style. That has its place, but a book cover isn't - IMHO - it. The PE cover with the Aegis is pretty cool, but still not good enough for a hardcover cover.
Compare with something like... say the cover from the old WotC Tome of Magic. Gripping.
Art doesn't make a product but it does draw attention. If this book is potentially going to end up on FLGS shelves, it needs to jump off the shelf and into hands. People need to immediately be intrigued and recognize that they've got a top-notch product in their hands. Once they open the cover and there's B&W art inside, well, that's understandable. But you want to get the book in the hands first. I'm sorry but Rick's art IMHO won't do that. His cover art tends to be people, not scenes, so there's no action, and the style I don't think is adequate for a hardcover's cover.
I hate being critical, but I think this is important feedback.
Separate books, please. I hat monsters in books players get to hold in their hands. ;)
I vote for separate books as well.
I hate being critical, but I think this is important feedback.
I agree. The cover is what grabs my attention. If I don't find the cover to my liking, I'm less tempted to look at it. Probably why I never got into the Dragonlance novels (not an Elmore fan, sorry).
Some other artists to consider for a cover are Storn Cook, Todd Marshall (his technomage cover from Dragon Magazine is one of my all time favorites), Timo Karhula, and of course, (IMHO) the king of psionic artwork, Brom.
If I had to choose I would go with 2 books. But, I don't have a very strong opinion on it. What kind of time frame are we talking about for getting at least the combined Psionics Unleashed / Psionics Expanded out?
2013 he said.
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I'll probably buy it one way or the other, but I'd like the option of splitting the cost and purchasing at seperate times, even if I have to pay a little more over the long haul. I've already purchased the orig PU, the APsG subscription, the bestiary subscription, and my wallet is getting a little thin these days.
2013 he said.
Yup. We still have to finish Psionics Expanded (and I've been posting new archetypes for it this week...), get it into print, and then do all the things necessary to combine the two.
That's a lot of work and even if I could do this as a full-time job, I don't think we could have it done before January simply due to all the other time restrictions (additional artwork, layout, printing times, etc).
2013? But, that's not now!
I'll throw my vote in for 2 books as well. Although the whole 'for all the psionic stuff go here' argument has merit, from a player/GM standpoint it makes more sense to have the monster stats in a separate book.
Since I already have Psionics Unleashed, I would prefer to get Expanded and the Bestiary as 2 separate books (in PDF format in my case).
Since I already have Psionics Unleashed, I would prefer to get Expanded and the Bestiary as 2 separate books (in PDF format in my case).
I guess will get Psionics Expanded as a seperate book anyway. At least it says so in the description for the subscription.
But yeah, a seperate book for the monsters would be much more convenient for the GM.
I'd like to thank everybody for their feedback (and welcome anyone else who hasn't had a chance to respond yet). I think we have an idea of what we're going to do and how we can support everybody.
I'll throw my vote in for two separate books.
Also, I need to throw my hat into the ring with DungeonmasterCal and Anguish. While the current art is fine for PDF releases, I don't think it will hold up for the purposes of a physical copy in the FLGS, they just don't inspire the "Oh this looks nifty!" factor that helps to drive impulse sales. Granted those of us that love Psionics and the work you guys at Dreamscarred Press do are going to pick it up regardless.
Two separate. Don't want my players sneaking into the monsters.