The rules say something like "lay out a track" with the chase cards. I'm custom-building a chase where the party outruns a rush of water down a crumbling, underground staircase.
That being said, do I just physically lay 10 index cards in a straight line toward their "finish line"; a vast open chamber which is partially flooded at ground level?
If I want to suggest alternate routes, like tumbled pillars or something, do I again physically arrange the cards in a different pattern to simulate the alternate path?
I understand the obstacles per card and the movement (move and action = 1 card, full move = 2 cards, full round = 3 cards; potential for mire on full move/full round). I just don't understand the "lay out a track" thing.
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The rules say something like "lay out a track" with the chase cards. I'm custom-building a chase where the party outruns a rush of water down a crumbling, underground staircase.
That being said, do I just physically lay 10 index cards in a straight line toward their "finish line"; a vast open chamber which is partially flooded at ground level?
If I want to suggest alternate routes, like tumbled pillars or something, do I again physically arrange the cards in a different pattern to simulate the alternate path?
I understand the obstacles per card and the movement (move and action = 1 card, full move = 2 cards, full round = 3 cards; potential for mire on full move/full round). I just don't understand the "lay out a track" thing.
Normally, you would lay out a single, straight line of cards from start to finish. That said, if you want to branch out and have alternate routes, that sounds like a really cool idea to me! :-)
Ok, so I'm envisioning a multi-level stairway, winding through 3 vaulted galleries. It leads down to a massive hall which is flooded with sea water.
The idea is that when they first begin to descend through the galleries the party gets a Perception (DC 15) to hear the water coming. This then triggers the chase.
The party must overcome several obstacles on the way down; jutting gargoyles, crumbling stairs, slick spots and falling stone. Getting to the finish line will be challenging but ultimately non-lethal (the party's first level and this dungeon is really a test for initiation into a guild).
I thought it might be cool to have diverging stairwells off the main; there's enough water that it will still split off and follow them, but it might slow the water slightly?
That's why I was asking: do I build a different path of cards for each diverging stair?
I have admittedly never used a deck of cards when running a chase scenario ... I've always just made up a series of potential obstacles and kept track of how far characters fall 'back' as a result of success/failure on said obstacles.
As for alternate choices of route, I would "break" the route from the "main" route and continue the card-stack to it's normal end (so if you had 10 cards and there is a break at card 4, lay out 6 more cards on that broken off route).
For more fun ... some routes might be longer and more dangerous ... and others shorter and easier ...
... and for even MORE fun ... allow the party to split up and choose their own routes.
@ mem: you read my mind. The way I thought of it splitting off from the main path is easier (though on one of the 3 routes longer) but with ease of use comes the problem: the main path eventually gets you to the bottom finish line where you find a flooded hall and fallen pillars to cross the water on. Each of the galleries eventually descends to a balcony about 10' over the water line; a balcony which no longer extends the full length of the hall.
So the penalty to taking the easy way out is...now you've got a skill challenge of jumping, climbing, perception and knowledge: engineering ahead of you.
As for splitting the party...I'll leave that up to them. My PC's are paranoid about such an event but they may opt for it if they wish and it may end up working to their advantage; toward the end of the hall are a pair of small water elementals attacking to subdue w/non-lethal damage and whirlwinds to move the party back to their starts.
If they split up and have some people out of the water, it may give them a tactical advantage.
One more question on this and I'll be quiet. I've run a chase scene w/cards before w/good results but it was the party pursuing the villains. In other examples I've seen on the boards it was PC's chasing villain as well.
This time I have PC's trying to outrun a flood.
My thought for the tweak is to have the flood consume one card and then provoke saves in the next. It will advance in this fashion 1 card at a time.
Ex: the flood starts on card no 1; if the PC's make the Perception they get a head start; otherwise if they're surprised they need to make a Ref save DC 13 or be knocked prone. Knocked Prone = mired.
The next round card 1 is consumed by the flood and therefore removed from the board; anyone caught in the card at that time is considered "Swept up" (see below). At the end of the round card 2 is now beginning to flood and therefore provokes saves.
Swept up: anyone with this condition is carried to the flooded hall below and deposited there where they need to make a DC 15 swim check or begin the "drowning" track.
Please tell me how this will play out or if you have better suggestions.
I have actually used chase scenes in detail in my campaigns so far and I will say this about using them...
1) I got rid of the entire skipping cards mechanic. It was one more option that confused the characters and didn't really make sense to me anyway.
2) The modifiers for your movement rate _should_ (if are not already and just poorly worded) be factored by the movement rate in question, not just your base movement. This came up when it was pointed out things like the rogue tricks Ledge Walker or having a Swim speed mean that you move at a faster movement rate than others that don't. In effect, this means that those that don't have these tricks, feats, etc. are taking a penalty when those that do are not taking the penalty.
3) I regularly use branching paths, using if you choose Option 1 on the card, you go to Card X, while Option 2 takes you Card Y. The catch is to make sure that they reconnect. I usually do this when the option for the shorter path is linked to a significantly higher DC (a difference of 10-15). Also, I have used cards that if you fail once, it forces you into another card on the another branch (i.e. falling off a building, getting up and running through the streets).
4) Don't be afraid of using just about anything for a check. I have used Bull Rush and Re-position attempts, Knowledge: Local and Sense Motive for knowing where the villain would go, etc. etc.
@ TZ: all good ideas. Do you have any ideas specifically dealing with outrunning something like lava or a flood? The party wants to be a bunch of Indiana Jonses; I want to do a pseudo-version of the flood in the tunnels in IJ 2 Temple of Doom. Also bear in mind that this is the first dungeon, of the first adventure, in a 20 level homebrew with lots of small and large dungeons.
Shameless bump?
Ok, so with no other advice here's how it looks:
Players arrive at the top of a wide, winding staircase. It descends to a series of landings providing exits to gallery levels. Behind them on the wall is a monstrous face with a gigantic distended maw; the mouth is open and the sea churns somewhere in the depths beyond.
A few steps down they feel a rumbling and hear noise behind them. The water comes shooting up and out of the maw and the chase is on.
Currently water threatens everyone in the first card unless they have the initiative; water goes on a 10. The party will have the option of moving up one card and taking an action or moving 2 cards at the risk of being mired. Every 3 cards is a landing.
Staying on the main path: suffer all 10 cards to reach the finish line
Diverging through a gallery: the PC has less cards to deal with but it WON'T reconnect with the main so after the chase is finished the PC is stranded 10', 20', or 30' above the main level they must reach eventually to continue on in the dungeon.
Each round the threat of the water advances one card. Each card behind the water's current space is completely flooded and therefor an automatic "Swept Up" condition which will eventually deposit the PC(s) into the flooded hall below.
Challenges: the water has obviously flooded this path many times before. Lanterns and heavy retaining chains for them dangle low in the archways and statuary lies toppled across the steps. Masonry crumbles through the whole area; it could fall at any moment on the party or may have damaged a step making it loose and detrimental. Finally in the galleries there will be separate but similar obstacles. In one there will be ports on one wall that the water can enter, narrowing the blas in tubes inside the walls and creating a water-cannon effect shooting back out.
Sorry, Mark... I don't check the forums daily...
Concerning the advancing lava / water idea, that is not a bad idea about having the water advance as per a creature, but here's a few things...
1) Rushing water moves fast. In a straight turn vs. turn chase, no one except high level monks can out run a rushing wall of water. As such the water would have probably overcome 2 cards each turn. I would also have the water go last in the round as it doesn't really have an Initiative Mod.
2) However, you can hear water rushing from a ways away. So the chase scene should begin with a decent Perception check to recognize what that sound means and 2-4 rounds with people running before the previous cards are 'washed away' from the table.
3) If you have not introduced the dangers of water and drowning yet, do that first. Have a small fight on a beach with skum or something aquatic that like to use nets. Or have the players voluntarily try to reach something 30' underwater. I.E: Get the mechanic for holding breath and drowning explained before the rules for chase.
4) Last, I would make sure that the scene is well detailed and mapped, as it's been my experience that trying to separate the party is when they try nutty things like rope & grapple hook to keep from being moved and just try to hold their breath.
Ok tz, 2 things to throw back at you:
1) I'm not killing my party members by drowning them here. I'm homebrew/modifying the water use here so that it a) only deals non-lethal damage no matter what, and b) makes bull rush attempts to dump the party into the flooded hallway. I'm doing this because this whole dungeon is a non-lethal trap and test of the party's skills for potential admission into the Archivist's Guild. For that reason I more-than-likely will not have the water-based encounter you suggested to educate them on the dangers.
2) I like your speed revisions in point no 1 of your last post. I DO want the water to be thrilling (the party won't KNOW it can't kill them until afterwards) so consuming 2 cards a round at the end of each round is a good idea.
So, with revisions...
Party hears/feels initial water coming and gets a couple rounds to move. After 2 rounds I begin removing 2 cards and threatening a third every round after all PC actions have been resolved. As for doing nutty things and such...I hope they do since this dungeon is all about testing their resourcefulness while still only being 1st level!
Sounds like a plan. Let me know how it works out.
I know the section on Forests states that a wall of water in a flash flood moves at a speed of 60'. I also know that since it can't be stopped it just consumes obstacles and therefore at the end of the round will just fill whatever 60' (2 chase cards) it passes through.
However mechanically the fastest my PC's can move is 2 cards. Mechanically speaking this chase is pretty boring; flood takes 2 rounds to get up to the surface so it isn't a threat til round 3. In that amount of time they are AT LEAST 3 cards away and either 1. roll badly, get mired once and are swept away or 2. roll well and are never even in danger.
Are there any suggestions to making this more dramatic?
You could have a treasure chest float past down an obviously "dangerous" route. The treasure would ultimately be something small like a masterwork instrument or suchalike.
The PCs might contend with (the threat of) a swarm of rats trying to escape from the flood.
There could be another adventurer or just a lost civilian in the path of danger they could rescue.
There could be something very dangerous in the water that briefly reveals itself before moving on to more interesting prey (it's just not hungry at the moment).
One path of escape might dead-end abruptly - escape is only possible through a small duct that the PCs have to crawl through quickly.
The rushing water disturbs some roosting flier (fire bats!). The PCs must hide within the flood to evade the threat.
If you think about it ... water moving 2 cards and characters moving 2 cards is perfect ... that means the characters must succeed against obstacles they run into or be overtaken by the water. Somewhere around 5 total obstacles/events should result in a good level of excitement, especially if you manage to vary the checks so that different strengths and weaknesses are exposed for the characters.
Really though, like combat, good rolls and it's safe/easy, bad rolls and it turns into life and death.
You can always up the tension with some theatrics ... how the characters can feel the spray of the water on their back ... stuff like that.
If you think about it ... water moving 2 cards and characters moving 2 cards is perfect ... that means the characters must succeed against obstacles they run into or be overtaken by the water. Somewhere around 5 total obstacles/events should result in a good level of excitement, especially if you manage to vary the checks so that different strengths and weaknesses are exposed for the characters.
I hear you, except that the characters will have 2 rounds of warning before the water even hits; they could be as far ahead as card six before the water even becomes an issue.
I guess what I'm looking for a way to build tension in round one and 2 of the chase, before the water appears in the cards. A bat swarm is a good idea. When I imagine it cinematically the party is racing and leaping down the darkened steps with water nipping at their heels the whole time; when I imagine the gaming of it I imagine the first 2 rounds of the chase being the guys around the table saying "wait; are we in a CHASE scene? Why are we running, there's just a mout on the wall rumbling..."
I hear you, except that the characters will have 2 rounds of warning before the water even hits; they could be as far ahead as card six before the water even becomes an issue.
Hence, part of the reason I removed the skipping cards mechanic.
... the characters will have 2 rounds of warning before the water even hits; they could be as far ahead as card six before the water even becomes an issue.
Ahhh ... then that bat swarm idea does sound good ... as does maybe being stuck at a locked door or some other "blocking the way" obstacle that they need to get through before starting the chase ... which might give the water some time to start catching up.
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I have my first obstacle card (critique if you think it worthy):
Bat swarm - a black vortex of shrieking and biting comes hurling out the gaping maw of the wall. Leathery wings circle and roil; a flood of darkness to prelude the coming deluge.
Stealth (DC 12) - while the swarm wheels in the air overhead you slip to the ground and quietly squirm away.
Handle Animal (DC 17) - Knowing how to deal with such pests you charge through the bats heedless of their assault.
What do you guys think?
Not bad.... good use of two drastically opposite skills.
Next one down offers a smart way to actually incorporate the "overcome both obstacles, move 2 cards" rule:
Fallen Statue - A massive stone statue blocks the stairs before you. What once was a proud shielded warrior is now a crumbling impediment promising nothing but death to those who linger before it.
Climb (DC 10) - easy enough to scale up and over though the going is slow.
Acrobatics (DC 15) - the elves call it "park'our"; you call it fast. The only problem is that randomly darting across a crumbling stone carcass is fraught with peril.
Combined skills: Scaling the side then racing along the narrow edge to hurl yourself with a mighty leap will put you farther afield though one false move and you'll find yourself tumbling earthward amid a shower of debris.
I like both cards so far ... definitely cool.
Any other suggestions? Does anyone else houserule chases differently or utilize the 2 card jump?