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The Burn! Burn! Burn! feat and alchemist's bombs


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I am considering playing a goblin alchemist in the newest AP and I have a rules question.

Would the Burn! Burn! Burn! feat ( Burn! Burn! Burn!) apply to the alchemist's bomb damage...

I know that it DOES NOT apply to splash damage. Splash damage affects everyone adjacent on a successful hit. The target does not suffer splash damage.

So at first level the damage of a fire bomb would be 1d6+int+1d4 and splash damage would be 1+int.

The issue is whether bombs are alchemical (it is an alchemist we are talking about) or magical . I raise this question because of this line from the Alchemist description ( alchemist):

"When an alchemist creates an extract or bomb, he infuses the concoction with a tiny fraction of his own magical power—this enables the creation of powerful effects, but also binds the effects to the creator."

So is it magical or alchemical or both?

I think it would be OK to allow it, as the extra d4 quickly becomes irrelevant by third level or so, as we are talking an average of 2 extra points of damage.

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks,
anthrorob

Osirion

Considering that the Goblin Alchemist archetype in the upcoming Advanced Race Guide can select "Burn! Burn! Burn!" as a bonus feat, I would imagine it could apply to an alchemist's bombs. Good question, though.


Pathfinder SRD wrote:

Burn! Burn! Burn! (Goblin)

You take the goblin love of arson and fireplay to a whole new level.

Prerequisite: Goblin, Disable Device 1 rank.

Benefit: You deal an extra 1d4 points of fire damage when you attack with fire from a non-magical or alchemical source (such as with torches or alchemical fire) and gain a +4 competence bonus on Reflex saving throws made to avoid catching on fire or putting yourself out when on fire. Additional damage caused by this feat does not apply to magical attacks or to splash damage.

so one would assume yes. Further clarification should be available when the afore referanced Advanced Race Guide.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

OoOoOo...a goblin alchemist archetype? When will we see this book in print?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Burn! Burn! Burn! does not affect an alchemist's bombs. Alchemist's Bombs are magical (they're Su) and are not the type of item referred to as alchemical as the game understands the term. For the same reason that Swift Alchemy doesn't let you make Mutagens in 30 minutes, nor does this feat affect alchemical bombs.

This is going to be an unpopular response and I refuse to be dragged into a semantical slugfest, but thems the kicks folks.

I asked the author of the archetype about this, and he didn't intend it to work either.


Cheapy wrote:

Burn! Burn! Burn! does not affect an alchemist's bombs. Alchemist's Bombs are magical (they're Su) and are not the type of item referred to as alchemical as the game understands the term. For the same reason that Swift Alchemy doesn't let you make Mutagens in 30 minutes, nor does this feat affect alchemical bombs.

This is going to be an unpopular response and I refuse to be dragged into a semantical slugfest, but thems the kicks folks.

I asked the author of the archetype about this, and he didn't intend it to work either.

so [Su]=magical?

Shadow Lodge

Cheapy wrote:
I asked the author of the archetype about this, and he didn't intend it to work either.

Link then


Writer wrote:


so [Su]=magical?

They don't function in anti-magic areas.

Cheliax

Let's remember that the alchemist's Throw Anything class feature is what allows him to deal his Int modifier as damage with splash weapons.

So even without bombs, alchemist's fire and the like still contributes some decent damage. Burn, Burn, Burn helps non-bomb damage stay relevant for longer.

I do wonder if Cheapy might provide a link to the author's comment, though. I do agree that the RAW says Burn, Burn, Burn won't work. A supernatural ability is definately magical (this feat clearly wouldn't work with a supernatural breath weapon, for example). The RAI is a bit sticky, though, considering that the goblin archetype does offer the feat.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

To split hairs... it isn't the throw anything feat that adds int damage, it is the throw anything extraordinary ability that grants the throw anything feat, that gives the int bonus. The throw anything feat is as follows:

Throw Anything (Combat)
You are used to throwing things you have on hand.

Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties for using an improvised ranged weapon. You receive a +1 circumstance bonus on attack rolls made with thrown splash weapons.

Normal: You take a –4 penalty on attack rolls made with an improvised weapon.

...but yes, I had included the int damage without the explanation of where it came from.

Cheliax

Correct. As I said, it's the alchemist's Throw Anything class feature that allows Int to damage.


Wouldn't a goblin alchemist want to light his formula book on fire instead of writing in it?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Orthos wrote:
Cheapy wrote:
I asked the author of the archetype about this, and he didn't intend it to work either.
Link then

That's one of the problems with asking over chat, and not on the forums. No trail to link to. It's also the reason I doubt the rules question seminar at PaizoCon will of much help to end forum disputes. No way to cite it. Guess people would just need to assume I'm not lying.

Anyways,

Burn! Burn! Burn! wrote:


You take the goblin love of arson and f ire play to a whole
new level.
Prerequisites: Disable Device 1 rank, goblin.
Benef it: You deal an extra 1d4 points of f ire damage
when you attack with f ire from an alchemical or
nonmagical source (such as with alchemical f ire or
torches) and gain a +4 competence bonus on Ref lex saving
throws made to avoid catching on f ire or to put yourself
out when on f ire. Additional damage caused by this feat
does not apply to magical attacks (such as an alchemist’s
bomb) or to splash damage.

ARG, page 118.

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