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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness


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Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
Mojorat wrote:
I always wonered why palladium never got into the d20 bandwagon, it probably would have sold and solved te good story background bad mechanics issue.
The d20 system is not the end-all and be-all of roleplaying. Especially when you take a look at RPGs that used other systems and then put out a d20 edition....I can't think of a single one where the d20 edition was even as good as the original, much less better.

First, Palladium always seemed to be a ripoff of D&D mechanics in the first place - while not actually 3E/d20, it's a pretty similar setup in a LOT of ways.

Second, I wouldn't necessarily say that a d20 version of a different game/system is necessarily better, but I can think of a hundred such version that are better FOR ME.

Is d20 the end-all, be-all? Probably not, but it's GOOD, it's flexible and adaptable, and the fact that tons of stuff is converted into d20 is a GOOD thing, because (and I know I'm not alone here), I have little to no desire to learn and master 20 different game systems.

d20 made a lot of publishers a lot of money, and it provided me with a lot of material, but I find myself no longer buying from a lot of these publishers because of how far the current iterations of their products diverge from the d20 base, simply because I do not want to learn yet another system.

I already need to keep track of differences between d20/3E, d20/3.5, PF, d20 Modern (and the variants to it like Future, etc.), SW:RCR, SW:Saga, etc.

Fortunately, all of those are close enough that it's not a major hassle. I have a little bit of room left over for things like Shadowrun, the classic Marvel Super Heroes and what not, but at a certain point, each new system becomes a casual game for me - the effort in learning the minutiae of the new system becomes tedious and confusing, and my enjoyment of that game/system is impacted.

I like my RPGs, and I like getting involved in them. "Casual gaming" when applied to RPGs is completely unappealing to me.

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Brian E. Harris wrote:


First, Palladium always seemed to be a ripoff of D&D mechanics in the first place - while not actually 3E/d20, it's a pretty similar setup in a LOT of ways.

Given that the Megaversal system came a good 20 years before d20, I'm not quite sure you understand the meaning of the word "ripoff".

Or perhaps you just phrased that awkwardly and you meant to call D&D 3.X a ripoff of the books Palladium has put out.


You could probably run a good TMNT game with the Mutants and Masterminds system. I mean building your mutant animal wouldn't quite be the same experiences as it is with TMNT, but you could easily build a anything you could make in TMNT with M&M and you'd have a smoother running system in the end.

Sovereign Court

Erick Wujcik was my favorite game designer. I pretty much started with him and I enjoy all of his palladium books to death. I like some of Kevin's work as well but the books written by Wujcik (TMNT and Ninjas and Superspies in particular) are my favorites.


Kthulhu wrote:
Given that the Megaversal system came a good 20 years before d20, I'm not quite sure you understand the meaning of the word "ripoff".

It did not, however, predate the system that d20 itself was based off of.

D&D was first published in 1974. This 21st century 'd20 System' stuff is based on a quarter-century of developments in the games that came before it.


Kthulhu wrote:

Given that the Megaversal system came a good 20 years before d20, I'm not quite sure you understand the meaning of the word "ripoff".

Or perhaps you just phrased that awkwardly and you meant to call D&D 3.X a ripoff of the books Palladium has put out.

Palladium, by Siembieda's own admission, was an attempt to "correct" the problems with AD&D, specifically its lack of skills and the armor system.

Palladium is a direct derivative of D&D.


Palladium has the best TMNT RPG game supplements that are compatible with most of their games. I think they are still available on Amazon.com. I played TMNT using the Ninjas and Superspies game which is like bread and butter compatibility wise. Palladium is growing stronger, their fans support them, and they are going strong. Paizo will not end up owning them because they have made their impact on the market with their own brand label. They have much in pre-production and they will continue to knock books out. Kevin S. has stated several times the Palladium rules are customizable to personal likings, that's the joy of Palladium games. There is no you must do this and you must do that. The rules are there to get you started and you can modify practically anything that's what makes Palladium games so open ended.


Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Adventures by Erick Wujcik is a great place to start adventure wise.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
Brian E. Harris wrote:


First, Palladium always seemed to be a ripoff of D&D mechanics in the first place - while not actually 3E/d20, it's a pretty similar setup in a LOT of ways.

Given that the Megaversal system came a good 20 years before d20, I'm not quite sure you understand the meaning of the word "ripoff".

Or perhaps you just phrased that awkwardly and you meant to call D&D 3.X a ripoff of the books Palladium has put out.

Given that I didn't say "ripoff of 3E/d20" but "ripoff of D&D mechanics", do you understand the meaning of ANY words?


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Jerry Wright 307 wrote:

Palladium, by Siembieda's own admission, was an attempt to "correct" the problems with AD&D, specifically its lack of skills and the armor system.

Palladium is a direct derivative of D&D.

Looks like SOMEONE grasps reality, thank you.

It IS a D&D derivative, which makes the litigious nature of Palladium so ridiculous.


Well keep it on the downlow but i converted Rifts to d20 modern a while back (the old rifts book anyway)

*patiently waits to be sued*


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I was never comfortable with the mania to convert every game to D20. I've always suspected that trying to do so sped up the demise of two of my favorite game systems, Deadlands and BESM.

The Palladium system does work reasonably well when the game is focused on a single genre. Street level combat in TMNT's, giant robots in Robotech, but becomes difficult when you try to run several together, as in Rifts.

Converting TMNTs to D20, sure. Robotech...I'm skeptical. But Rifts? D20 mages vs. guy in giant power armor? I just can't see how you would do that with any kind of balance.


I imagine a fireball is about as damaging as a Tank Gun somaybe a mage could take on a mecha. I would organize a Paladium game in Tiers.

Adventure Tier: Kinda of a classical D&D type thing where heroes travel around fighting evil. No mecha. They exist and all they are just mostly bacground scenery and flavor.

Army Tier: The Players are Mecha combat piolots and dragons and things of similar power.

Cosmic: Umm you deal with Splurgoth and the like.

Shadow Lodge

Viktyr Korimir wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
Given that the Megaversal system came a good 20 years before d20, I'm not quite sure you understand the meaning of the word "ripoff".

It did not, however, predate the system that d20 itself was based off of.

D&D was first published in 1974. This 21st century 'd20 System' stuff is based on a quarter-century of developments in the games that came before it.

Meh. At least to me, 3.X D&D seems like it was designed by someone who once saw a game of AD&D being played. When they changed the mechanics, they didn't just dump the baby with the bathwater, they threw away the tub and the crib as well.

The Megaversal does share a few of the same bits of terminology as AD&D...but those terminology bits are exceedingly generic, and are also shared by the vast majority of roleplaying games that have ever been on the market.

Essentially, if you call the Megaversal system a ripoff, you're calling the entire industry a ripoff.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:

...you're calling the entire industry a ripoff.

Homage. The word you're looking for is homage. :P


Palladium is not the entire industry. But when Siembieda created The Mechanoid Invasion, D&D was almost the entire industry, and most games were created in reflection of that.

Palladium's armor system is derived from D&D's, "fixed" to make armor ablative. The HP/SDC system is an attempt to make Hit Points make more sense (I don't maintain that the fix actually worked). The Palladium skill system is an attempt to give the basic game a real skill set.

If you run AD&D, you can drop anything from 1st or 2nd edition Palladium fantasy into the game with virtually no modification; the mechanical scales are that similar. I used to use Palladium spells and monsters in my 1E game all the time.

I can't speak for later editions of PalFan because I don't have copies of them.

Back when PalFan came out, in 1983, Siembieda was bent on fixing AD&D. Whether he did or not is up to the consumer.

And please note that Siembieda today does not acknowledge this. TSR's legal vultures made him so litigation-shy that he will not admit things he spoke freely about in the early 80s.


After giving it some thought, the only thing I think I'll probably end up changing is the skill system and maybe simplify the attributes (Too many P's. It would probably confuse my players.). Everything else about the game I love.


The Advanced Race Guide would be a neat thing to play with to try to replicate PFRPG versions of all of the TMNT animal races for personal use. Maybe one day when I have some extra time I'll try to tackle it, but from what I've read of the race creation rules this seems doable.


What about Atomic Highway?(V6 in general)

it has mutations(more in 'Irradiated Freaks') its lite,you can create vehicles in it(all the tech elements in TMNT) and the combat is cinematic but tough


J-Spee Lovecraft wrote:
After giving it some thought, the only thing I think I'll probably end up changing is the skill system and maybe simplify the attributes (Too many P's. It would probably confuse my players.). Everything else about the game I love.

As a gamer that cut his teeth on PB back in the 80s, TMNT was a tight lite system that ran well and was good for gaming.

It wasnt until much later that PB started with the endless list of flaws that killed them as an industry powerhouse.

Some fanbois will hype that PB is relevant today; the monthly newsletters put out by Sembeida about how sales are down would rather strongly suggest the otherwise to most business men. But, as Sembeida has spent most of the last 31 years saying, "your experience and knowledge are meaningless when PB is involved."

Its a shame to see a book company that used to sell out 5K book runs in 3 month spans now unable to clear a 3K book run in years. But it is entirely self-inflicted; I hope PF keeps this in mind when they think they are "too big" to need the fans anymore. In this industry, without fans you have no customers.


I'm not sure if you guys are still interested at all but I've recently started attempting to convert the game again. I've started with size. TMNTOS had 20+ size categories and that seems a bit much to me, so I figured Pathfinder's sizes would work best for simplicity's sake. For those of you unfamiliar with the Ninja Turtle RPG, each animal you get to play as has a certain number of "bio-e" points (I'll call them "mutation points") that you get to spend on things like bipedal posture, speech, human-like appearance, and even psionics. The larger a creature is, the less points it has but player's who want to play as, let's say, an elephant, can get points back by changing to a smaller size. Since an elephant would be size category Huge, it could change to Large size to gain 5 points in the old game or, if the player wanted to make it man-sized, it could become Medium and gain 10. Now, since Pathfinder doesn't have as many sizes, I'm not sure if it should still cost 5 points to change size or if it should cost less. Also, changing size affects certain stats, your AC, certain skills and Combat Maneuvers. Most of it can just be found in the universal monster rules in the Bestiary, but I added what I thought the stat bonuses should be per size. Here's what I was thinking so far:

Fine: Str -8, Dex +8, Con -6, AC/Attack +8, CMB/CMD -8, Fly Skill +8, Stealth Skill +16
Diminutive: Str -6, Dex +6, Con -4, AC/Attack +4, CMB/CMD -4, Fly Skill +6, Stealth Skill +12
Tiny: Str -4, Dex +4, Con -2, AC/Attack +2, CMB/CMD -2, Fly Skill +4, Stealth Skill +8
Small: Str -2, Dex +2, Con +0, AC/Attack +1, CMB/CMD -1, Fly Skill +2, Stealth Skill +4
Medium: Str +0, Dex +0, Con +0, AC/Attack +0, CMB/CMD +0, Fly Skill +0, Stealth Skill +0
Large: Str +4, Dex-2, Con +2, AC/Attack -1, CMB/CMD +1, Fly Skill -2, Stealth Skill -4
Huge: Str +6, Dex -4, Con +4, AC/Attack -2, CMB/CMD +2, Fly Skill -4, Stealth Skill -8
Gargantuan: Str +8, Dex -6, Con +6, AC/Attack -4, CMB/CMD +4, Fly Skill -6, Stealth Skill -12
Colossal: Str +10, Dex -8, Con +8, AC/Attack -8, CMB/CMD +8, Fly Skill -8, Stealth -16

As far as Human Attributes are concerned, here's what I've got:

Hands
None: A basic paw, hoof, or wing. The character cannot pick up or grab objects with the appendage and automatically fails all Craft, Disable Device, and Sleight of Hand skill checks (as well as any other checks left up to the GM's discretion). Average Mutation Point Cost: 0

Partial: The paw/hoof/wing grows digits and a non-opposable thumb. The animal can now grasp and carry objects. Manual dexterity is rough but possible, incurring a -2 penalty to Craft, Disable Device, and Sleight of Hand checks and a -4 penalty to attack rolls made with weapons other than the animal's natural weapons. Average Mutation Point Cost: 2

Full: A hand with a fully opposable thumb. The animal suffers no penalties to skills or attack rolls. Average Mutation Point Cost: 4

Speech
None: The animal has no vocal cords capable of speech and can only communicate with other animals of its kind by making growls, squeaks, clucks, etc. Although the animal can't speak, it still may understand the languages of other creatures if it has an Intelligence score of 3 or higher. Average Mutation Point Cost: 0

Partial: Vocal cords are equivalent to that of a parrot. While everything said can be understood by friends, strangers may have difficulty and must succeed a DC 15 Intelligence to understand the animal. The voice will be growly, grated and animal-like and the animal can only speak one language, despite how many languages it may understand. Average Mutation Point Cost: 2

Full: Sophisticated vocal cords equal to that of most humans. The animal can speak any language it knows. Average Mutation Point Cost: 4

Upright Stance
None: The animal can't stand up without support. If the animal is a quadruped, it gains a +4 bonus to CMD to resist Trip attempts and animals with extra legs (such as insects, arachnids, etc.) gain an additional +2 to CMD for each additional leg they may have. Some animals (like eels and snakes) can't be tripped. In addition, quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Multiply the values corresponding to the creature's Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity in the Pathfinder Core Rulebook by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine ×1/4, Diminutive ×1/2, Tiny ×3/4, Small ×1, Medium ×1-1/2, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12, Colossal ×24. Average Mutation Point Cost: 0

Partial: Like a bear, the animal can stand on its hindlegs to fight.
While standing in this way, the animal can only move half its base speed and suffers a -4 penalty to Acrobatics checks. The animal must fall to all fours in order to run. Average Mutation Point Cost: 2

Full: The animal can stand fully upright like a human and has the same range of movement. It loses any bonuses it may have had to CMD for having extra legs, as well as any increased carrying capacity. Average Mutation Point Cost: 4

Appearance
None: Character still looks pretty much like an animal. In other
words, a wolf character with hands and bipedal stance would still
have a wolf-shaped head, black nose, snout, fur, and pointed ears
at the top of the head. Nobody will mistake this creature for human, as Disguise checks made to do so automatically fail. The character receives a -4 penalty to Diplomacy checks when dealing with unfamiliar humans, but gains a +4 bonus to Intimidate checks. Average Mutation Point Cost: 0

Partial: The character looks vaguely human and can pass for human
in a bad light. Extreme features like heavy fur, long snouts and
pointed ears are all reduced. At night, the character can pass for human if disguised in clothes that cover up the animal features (-4 penalty to Disguise checks). The character receives a -2 penalty to Diplomacy checks when dealing with unfamiliar humans, but gains a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks. Average Mutation Point Cost: 2

Full: This fully transforms the character into something that can easily pass for human, though not exactly normal. Hair will
appear in normal human amounts. The body will take on a completely
human structure, and the features like eyes and teeth will look
more or less normal. Animal characters will never look completely
human but, with this option, they won't be immediately suspect. For example, a badger character would still have a badger-like face, badger-like streaks in the hair and a stocky build. People will tend
to say "that ugly guy looks like a badger", not "that badger looks
like a human". Average Mutation Point Cost: 4

Okay. That's all I've got so far. Holla back.


Anybody?


J-Spee Lovecraft wrote:

I've been a huge fan of TMNT (for the record, not the 2007 film) since I was a wee lad and I just recently discovered that there was an rpg based on the comics that came out in the 80's. I found a link that contained a scribd page that featured the entire core rulebook and I almost peed with excitement...that is, until I realized how archaic and annoying the system was. Don't get me wrong. I love the way characters are generated in this game. I love the levels of mutation you can choose. I love the character backgrounds. I love the possibilities for character customization. It's just unfortunate that almost every other aspect of the system sucks. I would really like to go through the lengthy task of converting this to more of a Pathfinder-style setting (but something more akin to d20 Modern) but I could really use some help. Below is a link to the core rulebook in case you aren't familiar with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness. I'd really like to hear your thoughts and opinions on my current obsession. Thanks!

- Spee

use pathfinder's custom race rules. should work fine. I got tmnt as a joke and we loved it. got us into palladium. we got sick of there horribly unbalanced rules after a while. tmnt was in my opinion there most balanced book, and it had problems. great times.


Son of the Veterinarian wrote:

I was never comfortable with the mania to convert every game to D20. I've always suspected that trying to do so sped up the demise of two of my favorite game systems, Deadlands and BESM.

The Palladium system does work reasonably well when the game is focused on a single genre. Street level combat in TMNT's, giant robots in Robotech, but becomes difficult when you try to run several together, as in Rifts.

Converting TMNTs to D20, sure. Robotech...I'm skeptical. But Rifts? D20 mages vs. guy in giant power armor? I just can't see how you would do that with any kind of balance.

i think d20 besm is a travesty. it defeats the whole feel of the game. palladium on the other hand is so close it shouldnt be hard. as for no way to balance it, it was blatantly unbalanced in the first place.


Love TMNT. All the books were great. Robotech also. Solid simulation of the setting.

Rifts is nothing like either of them. Once I realized that the most powerful thing in that setting is a Psionic Worm Cosmo Knight I just couldn't take it seriously anymore.


J-Spee Lovecraft wrote:
Anybody?

I love what you've done. Did you ever end up finishing this project?

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