Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

Paladin question


Advice

Osirion

So in my homebrew game, the party's wizard was recently slain. This wizard was rich and had a lot of goodies which the party set about splitting up, and the paladin follows in suit. This wizard is also a minor noble in the area and has family. My question is that wouldnt the wizards family be entitled to the belongings of the character?

And since the paladin took no action to stop the division of spoils, is that a basic code of conduct violation? He is an oath of vengeance type, and it seems this would be more along the line of oath of loyalty, but common decency is the default in this case one would think.
Should I strip him until he gets an atonement?

Cheliax

I would advise against punishing, especially if you haven't discussed your concerns with how the group is behaving.

Is this the type of adventure where whatever they kill, they get to keep its stuff? If so, this is how it goes. If you want to turn it into a plot hook, have the wizard's family start banging on the door for their rightful property. A noble family has to have tons of money they could pour into encounters in this way, merely for the principle of the thing.


Nope. You as the GM have to set the tone of the game. If you don't do so then you can't really blame the players. Different groups allow for different things. Until you say what is or is not decent in your gameworld the players might not know.
The player should know what breaks his paladin's oath because the GM tells him. If you don't know for sure, and you are the GM then the player has no way to know.


With all the evil in the world that action is not a big deal. I do not think that is a violation of the code of conduct, unless you think the paladin should search for the righful owner of every item he found while aventuring.

Osirion

Well as we have seen documented, Paladin is a powerful class to take, but with that comes the code of conduct. Sure there are situations in the scenerio where the party keeps captured goods, but its not a video game either. If someone plays a paladin they have to PLAY a paladin.

In all fairness, I should probably bring this up to the player.


I wouldn't penalize the paladin for doing something that is an accepted part of the conceits of the fact that it is a game.

Beginning to do so just leads to stupid things where the party goes out of its way to make the paladin unaware of things, like if the rogue had to forge a will leaving the wizards possessions to his "stalwart and beloved companions". While paladins can adhere to plausible deniability, and it would not be against the code, this sort of behavior is generally not good for a gaming group. By penalizing the paladin you would be encouraging making this sort of thing routine.


Indivar wrote:

If someone plays a paladin they have to PLAY a paladin.

What this means varies by group, but I am glad you going to talk to the player to try to establish what it means.


wraithstrike wrote:
Indivar wrote:

If someone plays a paladin they have to PLAY a paladin.

What this means varies by group, but I am glad you going to talk to the player to try to establish what it means.

This. Also, the wealth of the wizard is accumulated through adventure, meaning that there is a valid legal and moral argument that the bulk of it likely belongs to the party.

However.

WHY are you not getting him raised? You apparently have the money, and the churches of Abadar are obliged by divine mandate to raise people who can pay for it as long as they are not enemies of the church/city.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'd say that the Paladin has an obligation to return any items of sentimental value to the family, but nothing more than that.

It might be more of an issue if the wizard's family would be destitute without him, but if they're nobility then they've presumably got lands/incomes to provide for themselves.

Cheliax

What we're trying to say is that this is not something with which you should blindside your players. If you don't want the game to be a certain way, have an out of game talk with them about what kind of game you want.

The paladin, by the way, is not meant to be balanced by his code. Just because he has rules to follow, doesn't mean that he would be omg uber powerful if he was allowed to use poison.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Indivar wrote:
So in my homebrew game, the party's wizard was recently slain. This wizard was rich and had a lot of goodies which the party set about splitting up, and the paladin follows in suit. This wizard is also a minor noble in the area and has family. My question is that wouldnt the wizards family be entitled to the belongings of the character?

This is a question you need to resolve at the start of the game.

If the wizard's gear is all the result of spoils the party gained since he joined them, then I can't see anything wrong with it. It's not the good thing to do, but it's not a bad thing to do. If the party are on a noble quest and his goods further the quest, it can be argued as the right thing to do.

More to the point of good/evil, did they take the time to inform his family, return his body for proper burial or provide one for him?

Indivar wrote:

And since the paladin took no action to stop the division of spoils, is that a basic code of conduct violation? He is an oath of vengeance type, and it seems this would be more along the line of oath of loyalty, but common decency is the default in this case one would think.

Should I strip him until he gets an atonement?

Absolutely not. It is up to you, as DM, to tell the players what the proper norms of behaviour are in your world. You don't just expect them to know and then punish them for not even considering it.

You also have a different problem: your party now has one less character and a lot more loot. If the player makes a new character do they come in with WBL or do you depend on the rest of the party to equip them? What if they don't want to? I suggest you chat to them now and decide what to do.


IMO, It's not okay to force them to do something. It's also not okay to say "this isn't the kind of game I want to play, so they have to give back the stuff", because it's not about you, it's about the group.

I think it IS okay to inform them of the consequences of their actions (if you feel so inclined). For example
"So you guys are going to split up the loot? Okay, do you realize that his family is going to want all his junk back?" if they choose to go through with it, then you go to town with the families resources. Money is voice, muscle, and anything else you want it to be. You could defame the PC's, you could have them incarcerated by some VERY expensive bounty hunters... let them do what they want, and be realistic with the consequences.

As far as rerolling and WBL goes, I think there is a serious balancing conversation that needs to go down (if there are NO appropriate consequences to their actions). Letting them know ahead of time that WBL will be subtracted from the loot of a once dead PC to balance the game I think is acceptable, and they will understand why. Again, this is only if you refuse to setup a consequence/challenge which is appropriate to their actions.


This sounds like a very young group. I recall one of our first games in 2e, when we were like 13-14, and someone died, people would be on the corpse like vultures, claiming gear before even the blood stopped flowing.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No it's not a violation.
As others said, why not raise the wizard? If you are at a point that the wizard had any real kind of equipment then there should be enough to raise him.
In addition, always bring up to the party (before the games begin) that we don't loot PC memebers when they die because that screws WBL a lot.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Advice / Paladin question All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.