So my brother has lost his second character in two modules, and is needing me to help him make his next. We are currently playing in the legacy of fire AP and our make up is Sorc, Witch, Oracle, Barb (me) and him. His first character was an alchemist which i destroyed when I was confused. His second was a rogue that was murdered by undead. I'm thinking about helping him make a horizon walker but didnt know how well they faired in melee. My Barb is a heavy hitter and tank, so I think something that compliments it while not playing the same idea would work better.
Thoughts?
I would say ranger as well - they're really not going to be any lighter armored (they get medium, after all, and a switch hitter will have a fairly good dex if not great) but they have a higher hit die, better BAB (and the archery bonus feats to make ranged hurt easily), and a built in meatshield (animal companion). Plus, they have a lot more skills, so he'd be able to keep that aspect from the alchemist/rogue sort - clerics are pretty bad in the skill department.
If he's interested in playing a PC that avoids the front line than there are many options (Foxdie and BlueEyedDevil gave two good ones, I'd also suggest archer bard). If he's interested in a front line PC that is both survivable and effective I'd suggest a paladin or samurai.
Defensively speaking both get heavy armor, a d10 hit die and class features that enhance saves (divine grace and good will saves for paladin, resolve and honor in all things for the samurai). At high levels the samurai can spend a use of resolve to negate a critical hit (turning it into a normal hit).
Offensively both have full BAB, a smite/challenge mechanic and additional offensive goodies along with a mount (or bonded weapon for paladin or iajutsu strike for samurai).
So my brother has lost his second character in two modules, and is needing me to help him make his next. We are currently playing in the legacy of fire AP and our make up is Sorc, Witch, Oracle, Barb (me) and him. His first character was an alchemist which i destroyed when I was confused. His second was a rogue that was murdered by undead. I'm thinking about helping him make a horizon walker but didnt know how well they faired in melee. My Barb is a heavy hitter and tank, so I think something that compliments it while not playing the same idea would work better.
Thoughts?
I would have to say that the 'safest' player is the Master Summoner. We got to 7th level before I took damage for the first time. Some of that was luck, but not much...
Summoners tend to be super safe, because monsters tend to focus their aggression on the Eidolon (which can come back) rather than the summoner. I'm playing a Summoner in LoF and I'm in book 3, and have only taken serious damage once.
That might depend on the GM and could also possibly depend on the way he plays it. But having a character who can attempt to remain inconspicuous to enemies while your eidolon eats the face beatings does have something to it.
I'd go with some kind of archer paladin if I wanted safety, personally. Swift self heals, reasonable saves and the safety borne of range is a fairly potent survival combo to me.
How about a reincarnated druid?
If you are killed you are reincarneated one day later.
Just make him a human to begin with and put the racial stat into wis or another mental stat.
If you are reincarnated into something else you lose your physical racial stat bonuses and most racial abilities but I don't think you lose mental stats and racial abilities like bonus feat and bonus skill points. So you got nothing to lose.
This pc is hard to kill, brings along an animal companion, spells and other goodies.
I think it's one of the best "don't die" chars. More so if you don't start at first level, which you seem to indicate.
A defensively focused paladin can be almost indestructible when facing evil enemies. High AC, high saves, high hit points, immunities, swift self-healing.
if you know how to play it, wizards can be pretty safe, but for casual player paladin is very safe, if you don't like those selfrighteous clowns then clerics have the staying power.
Of course you still need to know when to run to fight another day.
The reincarnated druid is of course a very good idea even if it doesn't fit your usual concept.
Summoners tend to be super safe, because monsters tend to focus their aggression on the Eidolon (which can come back) rather than the summoner. I'm playing a Summoner in LoF and I'm in book 3, and have only taken serious damage once.That might depend on the GM and could also possibly depend on the way he plays it. But having a character who can attempt to remain inconspicuous to enemies while your eidolon eats the face beatings does have something to it.
I'd go with some kind of archer paladin if I wanted safety, personally. Swift self heals, reasonable saves and the safety borne of range is a fairly potent survival combo to me.
I actually find the Master Summoner safer - in part due to the fact that even if I fall unconscious my summoned creatures don't disappear the way an Eidolon might, removing options that might be known to foes. Moreover, my Eidolon is tricked out as a scout, with ungodly Stealth and Perception, Darkvision and the ability to communicate telepathically. Let's just say its rare that we don't know what we are getting into.
And then there's Invisibility, Flight, Dimension Door...
I'll answer the question this is posted under first, then maybe the question implied in your actual entry.
Safest character:
Cleric. Hands down.
3/4 BAB. Good armor access. Best, easiest healing. Best buffs. Also, that whole 'murdered by undead' thing...no, undead literally run screaming from them. Come at him confused, he hits you with break enchantment, or hold person.
Clerics, played with even a modicum of care are the most unkillable characters.
I'm actually going to have to say the Paladin is more survivable. They have full BAB, great armor and in truth the easiest healing. Not only are they the only class who can heal themselves as a swift action, with the spell Hero's Defiance they can actually do it as an immediate action. Combined with the defensive bonuses from Smite, their massively high saves and their various immunities to everything from Disease to Compulsion, they are most certainly the toughest martial-type to kill.
So my brother has lost his second character in two modules, and is needing me to help him make his next. We are currently playing in the legacy of fire AP and our make up is Sorc, Witch, Oracle, Barb (me) and him. His first character was an alchemist which i destroyed when I was confused. His second was a rogue that was murdered by undead. I'm thinking about helping him make a horizon walker but didnt know how well they faired in melee. My Barb is a heavy hitter and tank, so I think something that compliments it while not playing the same idea would work better.
Thoughts?
Zen Archer monk. He is suffering from characters that lack survivability, and the monk is among the best defensive classes all around. Unlike the core monk, the Zen Archer is quite straightforward to set up and play. They have the advantage over other archers of having a melee weapon always ready (unarmed strike), and they suffer less from MAD than other monks (he just needs dex and wis, basically).
An archer compliments the rest of your party nicely: You have divine, arcane and melee all covered. You could do with a scout, but the monk has the skills required to do that in addition.
A Zen Archer monk is probably a very solid choice, as would be an archery-focused paladin - the combination of staying out of melee, Cha bonus to all saves, and being able to heal himself as a swift action makes for some good survivability.
Since you're helping out your brother here: how 'bout the two of you take some Teamwork feats? They're quite potent, when the players (and their PCs) coordinate their actions.
A wizard, summoner, sorcerer, any sort of archer... all are pretty safe.
What level is he coming in at? You wanted to try Horizon Walker. They can get dimension door 3 + wis mod times per day by level 8 or 9 and start on the Dimensional Agility feat line, having Dim. Dervish by level 13.
The most survivable character is the one with the most effective survivor-based tactics.
Clerics and paladins are very good at surviving in combat, but they are in combat, which has its own risks.
Archer builds are much less likely to be in the middle of melee, but they tend to have lower AC and can be targeted by ranged attack or deliberate attempts to melee them.
If pure survival is what you want, play an invisible summoner. Wildshaped druids with "natural spell" who summon or do battlefield control while flying are also good.
In the immortal words of Watership Down, "And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you."
I largely agree on Paladin and Cleric (especially the Paladin), but I'd like to add my own (odd) 2 cents: given the right build, Barbarians are a nightmare to kill. After I lost a beloved front-line fighter character to some unlucky rolls in one campaign, I set out to make a warrior who was NOT going to go down so easy - so I made Con my primary stat focus (str and dex as secondary), and took toughness, endurance, diehard, and iron will. If you keep piling up tons of hit points on a character, it really helps mitigate getting unlucky with the dice. I also found that diehard makes rage extra useful - you don't die until you hit -Con, and rage boosts your con extra high, so you get a lot of mileage out of your hit points (and you don't have to worry about falling unconscious and then dropping out of rage).
One thing I didn't do, but that would be complementary option, is forego the extra damage of two-handed weapons and go for a sword-and-board fighting style.
I don't know about the alchemist* build the player in question built first but his second, the melee rogue, is notoriously squishy. Honestly, I don't think that there's a systematic problem at work here although I am happy to make suggestions.
- Any of the primary melee types (barbarian, cavalier, fighter, samurai, paladin) should be survivable provided the (barbarian/cavalier/fighter) choose feats to cover their will save as well.
- Any non-frontline type should be survivable provided they stay off the front line.
- Rangers and any 3/4 BAB, d8 HD types shouldn't plan on spending the majority of combat up front unless played by an experienced gamer who has developed strategies to mitigate the relatively low AC and HP these classes tend to have.
Really, the player should put together a character that is fun to play and an effective contributor to the party rather than one that is really good at turtling up (which doesn't sound fun to me). He'll just want to play characters appropriately according to their level of squishiness or else he'll get squished.
* Wasn't the alchemist killed by a confused barbarian? If so, that's more of an issue with barbarian build than the alchemist.
paladin 2,then oracle of life X.....lots of good saves, swift heals and safe heals, armour, shield
Paladin or Summoner seem to be good ideas if he wants something durable. Cleric also. I agree with Adamantine though. You can make most characters survivor types if you really want to.
LoF is a pretty dangerous AP, with challenges that can kill any character if tactics or luck fail.
Most of the suggestions are quite strong, but 2 arcane casters a divine caster, and a barbarian it is kind of hard to find a character that meshes well with the party. What is most needed is a skill monkey and a second damage character. Alchemists and rogues looked like they were a good fit, but they are a bit squishy, and the combats in this path are pretty dangerous in some areas.
I would go with ninja. Lots of skill points, rogue damage output, and the ninja tricks are just better than rogue talents. At level 10 they can upgrade their vanish trick to improved invisibility. Add in their stealth score, acrobatics, and fast stealth they can move around the battlefield with impunity with very low chance of getting hit.
When I was running LoF we had a ninja that went with TWF path, and would use vanish to position for a full round attack, would then spike damage rolling entire tins of D6s. At 7th it would only be 8d6 + 2x weapon damage, but once you get improved TWF and the 2nd base attack it goes way up. Level 9 when you can ITWF and you also have the 2nd attack and the 5d6 sneak the damage goes up to a potential 20d6 + 4x weapon damage. That damage spike is going to kill most things in the AP pretty quickly, reducing the chances of retaliation.
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Ranger, Warden Archetype, Horizon Walker. Take the Favored Defense feat (w/e it's called, the one that lets you add your Favored Enemy bonus to AC, saves, etc.).
You can survive in any terrain, on any plane, and have high defense and damage against anything. Go with a switch-hitter general build, and just have fun not dying :P.
Picking your favored terrains is especially easy in an AP like LoF. Plus, Warden can grant those awesome terrain bonuses to his allies. Win.
Honestly from running it LoF isn't a great place to have favored terrain work out. Sure the first module takes place in a desert area... kinda, it then goes to the mountains, then goes into places that are even stranger. Less than 1/3 of the path actually takes place in the desert.
A commoner.
Thanks for all the replies. He looked into the summoner before I suggested it and now I'm helping him optimize it. He's going for a quadriped with a lot of attacks that rival mine when he hits with everything. Hopefully him standing in the back looking inocent will help him not die.