applying pregen chronicles


Pathfinder Society

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5/5

Okay, a question came up during our game tonight. I played a high-level pregen, then applied that chronicle sheet to a new character. The rule in the book is as follows:

Guide to the Pathfinder Society Organized Play wrote:
If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated character, you can apply the credit to your character as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated character played. You may also opt instead to apply the credit from the non-1st-level pregenerated character played to a newly created character with the GP gained reduced to 500 GP (or 250 for characters using the slow advancement track).

I took it as read that the character I started with this sheet would, once he managed to get some gold together, be able to purchase the items from the chronicle sheet, and perhaps more importantly, use the boon. (The scenario in question was Red Harvest.) A GM at the game tonight suggested that I would get the XP, the PP, and the capped gold, but no other chronicle benefits. Is there an official ruling on this somewhere?

5/5 *

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AFAIK, the only difference is the gold reduction. You still get credit for the xp, pp and items awarded.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

1 person marked this as a favorite.
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pathar wrote:
A GM at the game tonight suggested that I would get the XP, the PP, and the capped gold, but no other chronicle benefits. Is there an official ruling on this somewhere?

There is no rule supporting your GM claim. The rule is exactly as stated, everything else follows normal Chronicle sheet Rules, which means you get the Boon and access to the items.

That said if you are taking the option to wait until the character gains the level of the scenario, you won't get the boons and access to the items until then.

5/5

If you take the chronicle as a 7th lvl character you get it when your asigned character reaches that level; and it works just as normal.

If you choose to add it to a 1st lvl character you get gold, xp and prestige. You will generally not get items on the chronicle since they are tiered and should be crossed over. If the chronicle has a boon or items tiered "all" then you get it even for your new 1st lvl character.

5/5

Diego Winterborg wrote:

If you take the chronicle as a 7th lvl character you get it when your asigned character reaches that level; and it works just as normal.

If you choose to add it to a 1st lvl character you get gold, xp and prestige. You will generally not get items on the chronicle since they are tiered and should be crossed over. If the chronicle has a boon or items tiered "all" then you get it even for your new 1st lvl character.

Interesting! So in the case of Red Harvest, I'd get the boon, since that's tier "All," but not any of the equipment, since that's tiers 7-8 and 10-11 respectively.

I can live with that. Although there was once piece of equipment I really wanted to get my hands on after a few sessions of saving. Alas. ;p

5/5

Correct:

Spoiler:
however you go about this you get the Lore oft he Lotus Annals ;)

5/5

Cool. Thanks for the info.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Diego Winterborg wrote:
You will generally not get items on the chronicle since they are tiered and should be crossed over.

I can't find that any where in the Guide... Can you point that out to me?

Where the pregens rules are it does not state that you don't get access to the items, though it would make sense.

Is it some where else in the guide?

*Edit: Only thing I could find was that Higher then Played Sub-Tier is crossed out.

5/5

The wording you are looking for is in plain sight on every chronicle sheet you hand out.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Diego Winterborg wrote:
The wording you are looking for is in plain sight on every chronicle sheet you hand out.

I don't know what Chronicle sheet you are looking at, but the one I look at don't say anything about players not getting access to items in the sub-tier they played with a Preg-Gen.

Diego you may be seeing something that is not there.

Edit: There is no rule I see that states what you say, in the Guide or the Chronicle sheet.

If that is the intent, that needs to be added to the guide or FAQ.

5/5

Then by all means make such a request.

Scarab Sages

No, no, no.
Diego, *you're* the one that needs to do that. If you're purporting that a player not be allowed the items from the chronicle at the level at which they played, *you* need to take that up with campaign administration. VC, or not, you don't get tto change the rules of PFS just because you think that the rules should be different.

The rules for pregens are very clearly stated in the Guide. It's very specific language that clearly points out that only the gold is capped. You don't get to play by different rules than anyone else, and if you're abusing your position as VC to deprive players in your area of their items on chronicles, I can see campaign administration having a problem with that.

Mike Brock is *my* GM.

Grand Lodge 5/5

I had not considered this before, but when the player takes a high level Chronicle for a new level 1 PC, it makes sense that the PC would not get access to the high tier items.

Of course, if the Chronicle is held until level 4 or 7 then they should get the items up to the sub-tier they played.

The rules may not spell this out exactly for pregens, but this is how it works normally and there is no reason pregens should be treated differently.

/EDIT

Actually, it is not the level of the PC that determines what sub-tier items they get. It is the sub-tier they played the adventure at. So by the rules the level 1 PC should get access to whatever items everyone else got for that adventure.

This seems wrong. Maybe. I dunno.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Don Walker wrote:

Actually, it is not the level of the PC that determines what sub-tier items they get. It is the sub-tier they played the adventure at. So by the rules the level 1 PC should get access to whatever items everyone else got for that adventure.

This seems wrong. Maybe. I dunno.

That is exactly what I am saying, the rules say the player gets access.

If that is not Mike's Intent he needs to add that to the FAQ or Guide.

5/5

W. Kristoph Nolen wrote:

No, no, no.

Diego, *you're* the one that needs to do that. If you're purporting that a player not be allowed the items from the chronicle at the level at which they played, *you* need to take that up with campaign administration. VC, or not, you don't get tto change the rules of PFS just because you think that the rules should be different.

The rules for pregens are very clearly stated in the Guide. It's very specific language that clearly points out that only the gold is capped. You don't get to play by different rules than anyone else, and if you're abusing your position as VC to deprive players in your area of their items on chronicles, I can see campaign administration having a problem with that.

Mike Brock is *my* GM.

I do not care for your tone W. Kristoph Nolen.

If you have a problem with me as Venture-Captain I suggest *you* take it up with Campaign Management.

5/5

Dragnmoon wrote:
Don Walker wrote:

Actually, it is not the level of the PC that determines what sub-tier items they get. It is the sub-tier they played the adventure at. So by the rules the level 1 PC should get access to whatever items everyone else got for that adventure.

This seems wrong. Maybe. I dunno.

That is exactly what I am saying, the rules say the player gets access.

I understand your position. What I am considering is that 1st lvl characters fall entirely out of the scenarios tier and that the rewards therefore are not intended for that level of play. Such a loop whole could bring unballance to the game by giving low level characters access to very powerful gear.

Dragnmoon wrote:
If that is not Mike's Intent he needs to add that to the FAQ or Guide.

I agree with that.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Diego Winterborg wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Don Walker wrote:

Actually, it is not the level of the PC that determines what sub-tier items they get. It is the sub-tier they played the adventure at. So by the rules the level 1 PC should get access to whatever items everyone else got for that adventure.

This seems wrong. Maybe. I dunno.

That is exactly what I am saying, the rules say the player gets access.

I understand your position. What I am considering is that 1st lvl characters fall entirely out of the scenarios tier and that the rewards therefore are not intended for that level of play. Such a loop whole could bring unballance to the game by giving low level characters access to very powerful gear.

I don't see how its unbalancing. They couldn't afford any of the gear until a few levels later anyways. I mean it takes until about 3rd or 4th level before you can even hope to have 8,000gp. And if they waited that many levels saving up all their cash (getting no masterwork or +1 weapons or armor or other minor equipment like Cloak of Resistance or Amulet Natural Armor or Ring of Protection) and the purchase that +2 Ring of Protection. Go for it I say.

5/5 *

Diego Winterborg wrote:
Such a loop whole could bring unballance to the game by giving low level characters access to very powerful gear.

They still need to be able to get the gold to purchase said gear, and since the gold is capped, they wont be able to. If they want to spend all their cash after one module on one potion of fly, I say let them.

4/5

Don Walker wrote:

Actually, it is not the level of the PC that determines what sub-tier items they get. It is the sub-tier they played the adventure at. So by the rules the level 1 PC should get access to whatever items everyone else got for that adventure.

This seems wrong. Maybe. I dunno.

I came to the same conclusion, and I have no problem with the slight disparity in equipment access vs. character level - largely because one must still purchase the equipment listed. To bring others up to speed and save them the trouble of opening the .pdf, here's the relevant text:

Guide to Organized Play, page 4:

"If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated character, you can apply the credit to your character as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated character played. You may also opt instead to apply the credit from the non-1st-level pregenerated character played to a newly created character with the GP gained reduced to 500 GP (or 250 for characters using the slow advancement track)."

On another front, Venture Officers offer clarification where they understand there to be ambiguity; we're here to help. Please offer evidence to back up your position before throwing accusations of ignorance, unfairness, and spite. Allow others a chance to read and discuss a point first, and I think we'll find the forum all the nicer for it.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

John Compton wrote:
Don Walker wrote:

Actually, it is not the level of the PC that determines what sub-tier items they get. It is the sub-tier they played the adventure at. So by the rules the level 1 PC should get access to whatever items everyone else got for that adventure.

This seems wrong. Maybe. I dunno.

I came to the same conclusion, and I have no problem with the slight disparity in equipment access vs. character level - largely because one must still purchase the equipment listed. To bring others up to speed and save them the trouble of opening the .pdf, here's the relevant text:

** spoiler omitted **

On another front, Venture Officers offer clarification where they understand there to be ambiguity; we're here to help. Please offer evidence to back up your position before throwing accusations of ignorance, unfairness, and spite. Allow others a chance to read and discuss a point first, and I think we'll find the forum all the nicer for it.

I agree. Venture-Officers are volunteers. About the only thanks we get for volunteering that isn’t a nice pat on the back, is seeing our players and GMs having fun.

We are all human, and can misinterpret things just like anyone else (not saying that Diego misinterpreted necessarily, as I believe there is ambiguity here).

Calling us over-officious and terrible V-O’s because we make a statement that might be based off an understandably false premise doesn’t help us want to continue to bring fun to the masses.

So before jumping on the, “you’re a bad V-O” bandwagon because you don’t like or disagree with what we’ve said or our interpretation of something, take a moment and realize that we aren’t just an anonymous face on the internet that you can be mean to with no repercussions. We are feeling people who work our behinds off to help lots of people have fun. When helping others have fun stops being fun for us (and getting accused of things you have no basis for helps things stop being fun for us) then we tend to want to stop helping others have fun. Keep that in mind please.


Popping in to say: please be courteous to all posters, Regional Coordinators, Paizo Employees, anybody! If you have an issue with a specific poster, either try resolving the issue through PM, contact webmaster if you're experiencing abuse, or contact Mike Brock if it is an egregious PFS issue.

Dark Archive 4/5

I've been told we can be mean to any Digital Product Assistants that dare our PFS General Discussion Forums. Thoughts?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Todd Morgan wrote:
I've been told we can be mean to any Digital Product Assistants that dare our PFS General Discussion Forums. Thoughts?

Was that rule posted in the Guide/FAQ or Additional resources? If not then it is not an enforceable rule..;)

Grand Lodge 4/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Todd Morgan wrote:
I've been told we can be mean to any Digital Product Assistants that dare our PFS General Discussion Forums. Thoughts?

Chris is the one person at Paizo I wouldn't cross. Be careful. You tread on dangerous ground. She has a sweet, teddy bear outward appearance, but inside, there is a marilith just waiting to shred your soul. Be mean if you like, but you have been warned.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Dragnmoon wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
I've been told we can be mean to any Digital Product Assistants that dare our PFS General Discussion Forums. Thoughts?
Was that rule posted in the Guide/FAQ or Additional resources? If not then it is not an enforceable rule..;)

I thought I was told it was on one of the lists that Todd Morgan is not on. ;)

Grand Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

As to the topic at hand, yes the character who has the Chronicle applied does have access to the items on the sheet. However, when Mark and I discussed back in December and went through quite a few situations, the worst possible situation that happened was a character gaining access a level early to items because they simply couldn't afford to purchase the items without crippling their character.

And on a side note, as Chris mentioned above, you should be courteous to all posters. Just because someone has a VC or VL title, it doesn't mean you get to bash them. Everyone, including myself, makes mistakes, especially with the plethora of rules out there. If you see a VC or VL that misinterprets something, then kindly point out where they misstepped instead of bashing them.

Keep it cvil folks.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/55/5 **

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Michael Brock wrote:
Just because someone has a VC or VL title, it doesn't mean you get to bash them.

Addendum: Unless their name is Bob... ;)

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Dragnmoon wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Just because someone has a VC or VL title, it doesn't mean you get to bash them.
Addendum: Unless their name is Bob... ;)

I don't understand how that can be fun though. He just giggles when you do it.

5/5

I emailed Mike Brock to ask his opinion, since there's so many different interpretations. We'll see what he has to say.

5/5

... and he already beat me to it. Fie.

Silver Crusade

Ok, to make sure I understand this.

I have a 1st level inquisitor.
Today there were no openings at the 1st level tables.
I played at a table doing "The Midnight Mauler #3-16"
We played 'up' at subtier 6-7.
I played Kyra Level 7 pregen.

Now, if I go this down correctly.
I can't apply any of this to my inquisitor until he is level 6 (the tier was 6-7 even though the pregen was 7).
Up through level 5 he gets nothing on the sheet. No boons, xp, gold, or items.
When he gets to level 6.
Then he will suddenly get 1 xp, 3k+ gold, the 2 boons under all, and the option to purchase any of the items on the list.

Is that correct?

Shadow Lodge 3/5

Morrolan de'Morcaine wrote:

Ok, to make sure I understand this.

I have a 1st level inquisitor.
Today there were no openings at the 1st level tables.
I played at a table doing "The Midnight Mauler #3-16"
We played 'up' at subtier 6-7.
I played Kyra Level 7 pregen.

Now, if I go this down correctly.
I can't apply any of this to my inquisitor until he is level 6 (the tier was 6-7 even though the pregen was 7).
Up through level 5 he gets nothing on the sheet. No boons, xp, gold, or items.
When he gets to level 6.
Then he will suddenly get 1 xp, 3k+ gold, the 2 boons under all, and the option to purchase any of the items on the list.

Is that correct?

Yes, except you get it at the level of the pregen, not the tier level. So you would get credit at level 7, not level 6. If you played down to a 4-5 subtier, for example, it would still be level 7 even though it was a lower tier.

Silver Crusade

ok, thx

Silver Crusade

Ok, rereading some of the above. Specifically

Quote:

Guide to Organized Play, page 4:

"If you play a non-1st-level pregenerated character, you can apply the credit to your character as soon as she reaches the level of the pregenerated character played. You may also opt instead to apply the credit from the non-1st-level pregenerated character played to a newly created character with the GP gained reduced to 500 GP (or 250 for characters using the slow advancement track)."

and

Michael Brock wrote:
As to the topic at hand, yes the character who has the Chronicle applied does have access to the items on the sheet. However, when Mark and I discussed back in December and went through quite a few situations, the worst possible situation that happened was a character gaining access a level early to items because they simply couldn't afford to purchase the items without crippling their character...

My other option is to reduce the gold to 500 gps.

Then I can apply it to my 1st level inquisitor right now. I get the xps, 2 prestige points, the boons and the items to purchase.
Even though I won't get enough cash to purchase any of the good items for several levels.

Correct?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

If your 1st level inquisitor has never been played (i.e. is a 'newly created character') then they can get the 1 XP, 500 gp, 2 prestige plus boons.

If the inquisitor has already been played and has 1 or 2 XP, then the chronicle can't be applied to him (except if you hold it till 7th level). If you wanted to get the rewards at 1st level, you'd need to start a new PFS PC.

Silver Crusade

Aha. Ok, seems a little odd, but I can deal with that.

Yes, the inquisitor has an XP already. So I will just hold the chronicle sheet until the char is 7th level.

Not a huge issue. He will eventually get there.

Lantern Lodge 2/5

So what if the pre-made you are playing dies? Does that mean whatever character you apply it to dies?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Shadow-Hand wrote:
So what if the pre-made you are playing dies? Does that mean whatever character you apply it to dies?

The answer is in the FAQ:

FAQ wrote:

If my PC or pregenerated character dies permanently, what happens?

Player characters and pregenerated characters who do not return to the realm of the living receive 0 XP, 0 PP, 0 gold, and no items or boons. This is marked on their Chronicle sheet along with a note that the character is permanently dead. If a player was planning to hold the Chronicle from a pregenerated character and apply it to a lower level PC once the PC reached the level of the pregenerated character, they must either apply the Chronicle sheet immediately and report the PC as dead or assign the Chronicle sheet to a new level 1 PC (ie a new PC number) and report that character as dead.

So if you have existing PCs 99999-1 (the one you were intending to apply credit to), -2, -3, & -4, you get the coordinator to report it against character -5, amending your entry on the session sheet that the GM uses for reporting from -1 to -5 if necessary.

Then when you get home, create a new PFS PC called 'Deady McDead' and never play him (as he's recorded as dead).

Lantern Lodge 2/5

That's what I thought. Thanks for the fast reply!

1/5

So...

I have 1 GM cert (Tier 1-2) already assigned to a character number - but have not played, or even created the character. There is a chance in our game tomorrow I may need to play a pregen. Can I apply both the pregen credit and the GM credit or does the GM credit already being assigned mean I am at 1 xp (built or not) and not eligable to apply the pregen credit to that character number.

Thanks

Mike

5/5

Michael C Allen wrote:

So...

I have 1 GM cert (Tier 1-2) already assigned to a character number - but have not played, or even created the character. There is a chance in our game tomorrow I may need to play a pregen. Can I apply both the pregen credit and the GM credit or does the GM credit already being assigned mean I am at 1 xp (built or not) and not eligable to apply the pregen credit to that character number.

Thanks

Mike

This.

Quote:
the GM credit already being assigned mean I am at 1 xp (built or not) and not eligable to apply the pregen credit to that character number.

1/5

Thanks Mike

(nice name btw)

5/5

Or...since, you are level 1, and eligible to rebuild your entire character... You can make your character really quickly, and it just so happens to have all of the stats, equipment, and abilities of one of the pregens, but has your name (not necessary though as names can change), and play "your" character in this scenario.

This would apply the chronicle to the same character with the GM credit, and you would still be free to rebuild and create the character you want anytime before you sit down and play the character after it hits level 2 from credits from various sources.

I don't know as this is the intent, but as things stands now, it is a legal option. A starting player can play 3 different scenario with 3 different pregens and all have them applied to the same character number, to give them a chance to explore character options before being locked in at 2nd level. Why shouldn't a GM have that chance as well?

Just my 2 cp.

1/5

Only if playing tier 1-2 though - game tomorrow is possibly tier 4-5 so I would have to hold the pregen cert till level up. Thanks for everyone input

5/5

Michael C Allen wrote:
Only if playing tier 1-2 though - game tomorrow is possibly tier 4-5 so I would have to hold the pregen cert till level up. Thanks for everyone input

OK, yeah. My suggestion is only if the pregen being played was a 1st level pregen. I hadn't considered that issue.


LIVE DARN YOU.. LIIIIIIVE *shocks this thread back to life*

So Im a new PFS player who is running into this exact same issue.

Level 1 Char
Played 2 level 1 games
No level 1 spots in 3rd game so played level 7 pregen
According to rulebook thingy it says I can get 1398gp and apply it to one of my 1st level characters...

Game #4 would my character be level 2 with an extra 1398gp? Or can I not apply it cause its a character already played twice? How does that work?

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

Reika: Since the discussion above, the wording has been updated in the latest Guide to PFS Organised Play to be much clearer:

Quote:
You may also opt instead to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-level pregenerated character to a 1st-level character with the amount of gp gained reduced to 500 gp (or 250 gp for characters using the slow advancement track). You do not lose access to any of the Prestige Points, boons, or items listed on the Chronicle sheets that were earned during the adventure.

Be aware that the gold you get for a chronicle applied to a 1st-level PC is 500 gp; the 1398 gp figure is for a longer module.

Applying the chronicle sheet to a PC with 2 XP is legal. Did the GM know that was the PC you were assigning the chronicle to? Is the right PFS number (e.g. XXXXXX-1) on the top of the chronicle sheet, and part of the details the GM took for reporting?


Paz wrote:

Reika: Since the discussion above, the wording has been updated in the latest Guide to PFS Organised Play to be much clearer:

Quote:
You may also opt instead to apply the Chronicle sheets earned with a non-1st-level pregenerated character to a 1st-level character with the amount of gp gained reduced to 500 gp (or 250 gp for characters using the slow advancement track). You do not lose access to any of the Prestige Points, boons, or items listed on the Chronicle sheets that were earned during the adventure.

Be aware that the gold you get for a chronicle applied to a 1st-level PC is 500 gp; the 1398 gp figure is for a longer module.

Applying the chronicle sheet to a PC with 2 XP is legal. Did the GM know that was the PC you were assigning the chronicle to? Is the right PFS number (e.g. XXXXXX-1) on the top of the chronicle sheet, and part of the details the GM took for reporting?

Yes.

But I have now played the 3rd first level game.

So...

Level 1 game
Level 1 game
Level 7 game
Level 1 game

Im assuming since it wasn't applied it cant be now? Cause I would have been level 2 my 4th game not level 1 if applied.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

If you've already played a particular 1st-level PC three times to take them to 3XP and 2nd-level, then trying to retroactively fit another sheet in at 1st level is a bit of a headache.

You're probably best off starting a second PC (effectively getting 500 gp bonus starting cash) to give you more flexibility in future.

You should ensure that the correct PC info is on the chronicle sheet and has been reported by the GM/event coordinator.


As its already been reported on the characters # , I'll just have to hold onto it till she hits 7th level and claim it then I guess.

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