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Was I guilty of being a bad guest?


Gamer Talk

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Andoran

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't think it has ever been expected that guests be allowed to rummage through their hosts things. Yes, hosts have been expected to provide for their guests, but the hosts bring the provisions to the guest. The guest doesn't go find the provisions. If the guest doesn't get what he want, he can leave. He doesn't suddenly have the right to go take what he wants. That's just rude.


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I'd be glad to offer milk to someone. It's not even about the milk, it's about the fact that he was specifically asked NOT to drink it, and did so anyway.

That, combined with several other "offenses," and the manner in which the OP had the nerve, when called out on his selfish actions, tell everyone else off and think he did nothing wrong.

Whether milk is $2 a gallon or $500, it doesn't matter. It's the rudeness and complete lack of respect at root here.


Josh M. wrote:

I'd be glad to offer milk to someone. It's not even about the milk, it's about the fact that he was specifically asked NOT to drink it, and did so anyway.

That, combined with several other "offenses," and the manner in which the OP had the nerve, when called out on his selfish actions, tell everyone else off and think he did nothing wrong.

Whether milk is $2 a gallon or $500, it doesn't matter. It's the rudeness and complete lack of respect at root here.

Bingo, lack of respect he gave deserved a good solid Terry Tate and send the schmoo on his way. I treat people as I would wish to be treated and vice versa. A host is expected to treat the guests with respect yet when that guest obviously is disrespecting the host then the hosts duties are complete and he may then ask the "guest" to leave. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.


Bottom line is yes, you were a bad guest. Whether because of miss-perception, or reality, you were a bad guest.


I think I may have changed my opinion. I would not say that I think you were a bad guest. Good and bad seem to be too complicated to discuss. I would say you obviously made yourself an unwelcomed guest, and this resulted in a consequence, and it follows that it was a consequence that you have little or no feelings toward at all. Thus, you may have made yourself an unwelcomed guest, but you don't care, and will most liekly do so again, or it is possible that you made yourself an unwelcomed guest, have misgivings over the consequences of your actions, and may, in the future, try harder to not make yourself an unwelcomed guest.

But it is incontrovertable that you did, in fact,through your own actions, make yourself an unwelcomed guest.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aarontendo wrote:
Was the dude wrong for taking it when he was told not to...I suppose so.

This is where we hit an impasse. I can't think of a social situation where it's acceptable to take something you've been told not to take. Maybe if your starving, but then it's still not "acceptable" so much as "understandable."

On the subject of milk specifically: I've had people in my group bring milk with them to gaming for their personal (or group) consumption. It usually involves oreos and the fact that one of gamers in particular has a thing for 2% milk instead of the skim my wife keeps in the 'fridge.

Lastly, all of my group are my friends. Some of them I've known for 20 years. If they want to go to the 'fridge and get some milk, that's fine with me. If they drank the last of my milk, I might be mildly annoyed, especially if I needed it for something or asked them to not drink it all. But, I'd cut them a lot of slack because they are my friends. I'm under the impression that the OP wasn't friends with the hosts and didn't try to connect on a positive social level with them.

-Skeld


I admit I'm often a bad host. I always stock beer, and soda if requested, and let the players rummage the fridge for those as desired. But I don't buy every kind of soda in the world just in case someone asks for one, and I generally don't cook for the group when I'm hosting. I feel bad about that sometimes, but you'd be amazed how hard it is to coordinate food with people sometimes (ever try to cook for a family or social group containing one vegan, one person who refuses to eat gluten, and one person who doesn't eat vegetables?). So we generally have a BYOF policy, which is lame on my part, but I can usually use the excuse that I'm busy prepping adventures instead of buying snacks.

Now, in the example given, the hosts were equally as bad as I am. They should be ashamed of that. But like Mama said, "two wrongs don't make a right." A lapse in hospitality is NEVER an excuse to be a douchebag guest, as the OP most certainly appears to have been. Unless he was REALLY fun at the gaming table, I might've kicked him out as well.


I think, the behaviour was a little rude, but I also have a problem with people who don't discuss issues and let them fester until its' unbearable and then the almighty boot comes into play.

I guarantee these problems were stewing with the group for at least the last couple of sessions..

OP - grabs a glass of milk

Rest of Group - exchanges knowing looks.

If I have a situation come up with my group, we deal with it. We throw in for food every session, if someone doesn't pay, we call em on it.

If the host said "get yer own damn milk" or "gimme pizza money" then this whole thing wouldn't have ended the way it did.

I see the situation as thus;

Host to other player "wow that dude is such a cheap-skate, he never chips in for pizza"

Other player " I know right? What's up with that?"

Host " No clue, but next time we play, I'm not gonna bring up chipping in and if he doesn't offer to pay, I'm booting him"

EDIT: I also want to make it clear that I don't excuse the OP's actions, as they were clearly wrong. We used to have a player who never chipped in, with various excuses. Ended up owing the group around 80 bucks all told. He was kicked, and stayed kicked even after he settled his "tab"


At my place when I GM, every player has free use of the kitchen; to cook or prepare food, store things in the fridge, etc. Quickest way to get asked to not comeback, is if that courtesy is repaid in either myself or my fiance having to clean said kitchen after the fact.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
...one person who refuses to eat gluten...

Refuses? I thought most people avoided it due to an allergy or sensitivity... Why on earth would anyone cut out gluten for other reasons?


Evil Lincoln wrote:
Refuses? I thought most people avoided it due to an allergy or sensitivity... Why on earth would anyone cut out gluten for other reasons?

Guy I work with wasn't allergic; he just read somewhere it was healthier. After a year or so of that, he says he has now develped allergies -- i.e., lost the ability to eat/digest it. You'd be amazed how many people voluntarily eliminate whole categories of foods from their diet, and how many of those things are mutually contradictory with types of foods that other people won't eat.

Like people on that Atkins thing who won't touch anything with carbohydrates (I work with a bunch of them, too), and then the aforementioned vegans, and then the seeming majority of guys under 30 who refuse to eat any vegetables whatsoever, and the vast number of others who refuse to eat "anything Asian." Maybe people in my gaming group have one or more of those restrictions (whether innate or self-imposed), but I'm far too lazy to interrogate them to find out which ones if any, and then cook on top of game prepping as GM. That's bad of me, but not as bad as it could be, I guess. No one has complained to me about BYOF yet, anyway.

Andoran

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

I have been following this thread from the beginning... I just failed my will save not to comment:

Be like Teal'c - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWpV9BvFEvU


Kirth Gersen wrote:

You'd be amazed how many people voluntarily eliminate whole categories of foods from their diet, and how many of those things are mutually contradictory with types of foods that other people won't eat.

Like people on that Atkins thing who won't touch anything with carbohydrates (I work with a bunch of them, too), and then the aforementioned vegans, and then the seeming majority of guys under 30 who refuse to eat any vegetables whatsoever, and the vast number of others who refuse to eat "anything Asian." Maybe people in my gaming group have one or more of those restrictions (whether innate or self-imposed), but I'm far too lazy to interrogate them to find out which ones if any, and then cook on top of game prepping as GM. That's bad of me, but not as bad as it could be, I guess. No one has complained to me about BYOF yet, anyway.

Right, but ... oh whatever.

I kinda understand no animal products, since even as an omnivore the supply chain kinda freaks me out. But to take something that has no moral or physical repercussions and hate on it just to make cooking for you more difficult... yikes!

I'll hazard a guess that this individual's personality issues probably don't stop there.


Brian E. Harris wrote:
Further, it's just kinda abnormal as a beverage for a gaming session. I don't know how to explain WHY it feels odd/weird, but it does. My very first thought on this is that if I'm going to be at a social gathering somewhere, there won't be milk available. I'd better bring my own.

Of the ~15 people I game with, about three or four are quite dedicated milkdrinkers. When we game with them we can expect to see a few glasses of milk taken down, sometimes more - in fact when we play in house of one of those I tend to drink more milk than during the rest of year. Two other people are lactose intolerant so they won't touch milk with a 10 feet long pole.

@Kirth: Of five regular hosts two tend to cook and feed the guests during the sessions but one of them, well, actually a married pair are doing this because our sessions with them begin at sunday afternoon, just when it is time for feeding the kids and themselves. Sometimes we have another friend making cookies, muffins or cake, depending upon what she fancies backing, but she does this more when she is guest than when she is hosting a session. The rest of hosts tend to follow policy "you will eat what you brought" with very occasional snack provided by hosts ("want to try my vegetable salad? my boyfriend does not eat vegetable salad" *cold stare* followed by me and another friend present tell her that vegetable salad goes very well with sausage or some fried meat - quickly tested by her boyfriend with positive results).
The friends with flat that consist of single room merged with kitchen provide free access to kitchen for cooking of brought food as long as everyone cleans after oneself, like does Kryzbyn and his fiance.


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Evil Lincoln wrote:
But to take something that has no moral or physical repercussions and hate on it just to make cooking for you more difficult... yikes!

Yeah, no kidding. But you'd be amazed at how prevailent that's getting to be.


Something else to be snobbish about, I guess.


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I have to admit that, as a host, it's important to recognize that there are a number of rules that essentially cannot be expected of guests, and you might as well give up trying.

1. The "no shoes" thing, which Mrs Gersen at first requested. Nobody (except maybe players who have lived in Japan) will ever take their shoes off in your home unless you physically stop them at the door and specifically ask them each time they enter. No matter how many times they visit, and no matter how many people show up at once, I found myself having to do this with each person individually, with each visit. Even then, you get looks from people as if you're telling them to strip naked. I long ago gave up and figured it wasn't worth it -- cleaning up afterwards is a lot easier than enforcing the policy.

2. With shoes on in the house, I figured I could at least get them not to walk all over my Oriental rug with them on. Nope. Not happening -- people won't change their route over a floor covering. They're not being douchbags -- it just never occurs to them that the thing is even there. It's part of the scenery, not a physical object! So I ended up just moving the rug -- again, a lot simpler overall.

3. Trying to get people to not put trash in the recycling bin. In Texas, recycling apparently doesn't exist. Cans, bottles, etc. are all viewed simply as trash, and therefore get mixed in with trash, and it's a losing cause to try and educate guests regarding the difference. Usually I just tell everyone to leave their empties on the counter, and I clean and sort them afterwards.

It sounds like, for some groups, drinking milk could be added to the list. If my group contained a lot of milk drinkers, I'd for sure stock it for them, rather than telling them not to drink it.


I still think the milk thing is a bit odd...
I have a player in our Saturday group that has sworn off soda, so he brings a clean pitcher and 2 cans of apple juice concentrate to make for his drinking for the evening. He does not expect me to supply it for him. It's never even been brought up. He makes it for himself, replaces the ice he uses, and cleans up after himself.
No one in any of my gaming groups has ever just helped themselves to anything of mine without asking first, even if permission was granted previously. I'm kind of amazed at the sense of entitlement that would make one think they could just open my fridge and consume whatever they wanted without asking.
On a side note, if that did happen, it would quickly be used as a learning moment as said person was immediately made fun of mercilessly by myself or others in the group.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
1. The "no shoes" thing, which Mrs Gersen at first requested. Nobody (except maybe players who have lived in Japan) will ever take their shoes off in your home unless you physically stop them at the door and specifically ask them each time they enter.

If I visited your house, I'd definitely take my shoes off (unless you have dirt floors or something). That's bog standard in Canada (and other snowy regions?).


I think Kryzbyn has it exactly right. These situations can be best avoided by the rigorous use of mockery and taunting. If it works on the playground it will work in my living room!

Also, after reading a few posts up, I noticed I am wearing my shoes indoors AND walked over the oriental rug at least a dozen times today...some of us never learn...


hogarth wrote:
That's bog standard in Canada (and other snowy regions?).

Yeah, I think maybe it's a northern thing. In general, Southerners don't seem to get it.


Keltoi wrote:

I think Kryzbyn has it exactly right. These situations can be best avoided by the rigorous use of mockery and taunting. If it works on the playground it will work in my living room!

Also, after reading a few posts up, I noticed I am wearing my shoes indoors AND walked over the oriental rug at least a dozen times today...some of us never learn...

This is how my group of friends handles things. It may not work in every situation, but new players usually know immediately whether or not they're comfortable coming back for a second session, or if they're allowed to come back for a second session...


This guy kind of reminds me of two guys we kicked from our games years ago. One boiled flour in a pot until it glutenized and ate it, but burned the bottom of the pot and effectively ruined it. He was also a douche to everyone in game, so he did not last long.

The other... He was worse. Among the more colorful offenses he committed at the game table, there was leaving used facial tissue all over the place when there was a garbage can provided, he was consistently rude to my wife, never chipped in for snacks/food, insisted his girlfriend be allowed to join the campaign, and had said girlfriend give him a handy under the table during the game. Yeah, a pillar of the community. Shown the door, never allowed back, and certainly disgusting. But here's the kicker: he believes he was cool to do those things and, what's more, that we were in the wrong to kick him out. He continued to pester me for weeks about it afterward. Ugh.


rockfall22 wrote:
and had said girlfriend give him a handy under the table during the game.

I wish I had friends who felt comfortable enough to do that!


Kirth Gersen wrote:
1. The "no shoes" thing, which Mrs Gersen at first requested. Nobody (except maybe players who have lived in Japan)

While European savoir-faire technically recognizes that it is rude to ask guests to take off their shoes I have no problem with taking them off when hosts asks for it. Also, personally when I am first time somewhere I try (if I remember) to let the host avoid violating etiquette by asking myself if I should take off shoes after entering.

Quote:
3. Trying to get people to not put trash in the recycling bin. In Texas, recycling apparently doesn't exist. Cans, bottles, etc. are all viewed simply as trash, and therefore get mixed in with trash, and it's a losing cause to try and educate guests regarding the difference. Usually I just tell everyone to leave their empties on the counter, and I clean and sort them afterwards.

No one I know have recycling bins, there are some of them spread on various city streets but not nearly enough making the throwing trash separated by type a problem.

Returning to the opening fridge problem: we often open hosts fridge a lot without asking - to get back our soda/beer/juice we brought ourselves and put into fridge for it to cool.

Qadira

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Kirth Gersen wrote:
hogarth wrote:
That's bog standard in Canada (and other snowy regions?).
Yeah, I think maybe it's a northern thing. In general, Southerners don't seem to get it.

Agreed. It seems to be a north/south divide thing here in England too.


Drejk wrote:
No one I know have recycling bins, there are some of them spread on various city streets but not nearly enough making the throwing trash separated by type a problem.

It's only a problem if you, like my wife and I, want to do your part and not throw away things that are easily recyclable. It's already hard enough to do that here, without adding additional difficulties in the form of cleaning off a bunch of used tissues and coffee grinds besides.

But, yeah, recycling varies so much from place to place that there's no way for a host to expect a common standard to apply. In Germany, I once saw a guy nearly beaten down by an angry mob when he put a green glass container in the brown glass bin. Contrast that with my office here in Texas, which produces endless reams of printed paper and doesn't recycle any of it -- unless it gets specifically slated for shredding and incineration, it just gets thrown out as trash.


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Kirth Gersen wrote:


But, yeah, recycling varies so much from place to place that there's no way for a host to expect a common standard to apply.

Here in south central Wisconsin, recycling has become pretty much ingrained behavior. We even got a 96 gallon recycling bin from the city that gets emptied by the recycling truck every 2 weeks. It's pretty nice having the bin because we don't even need to separate out different types of recyclables. Paper, plastic, metal... toss it in.

In Denver, things are a real patchwork. Some burbs are diligent about recycling and others not. It's weird to see the different behaviors, sometimes contrasting over a very short distances of a block or side of the street.

But enough of my tangential observation...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

With my group, we typically go out to dinner immediately before playing and then either take a trip to the grocery store or liquor store before regrouping at my home. By an large, I only play with people I'm friends with, but it's not uncommon for my players to ask if they can invite other friends who would like to see what Pathfinder is all about.

After playing together for several years, my players all know me for being generous and that I don't really track debts between friends. If I buy an appetizer one week, someone else will do the same the next, etc.

With that said though, they realize that I'm very... particular about things in my own hom and so they'll ask first before going in the fridge, using the blender, etc. Before coming over, most of them are even polite/practical enough to ask if there is sufficient space in the fridge/freezer if they intend to bring over larger items.

Things like using the restroom, microwaving something, or getting a glass or utensil from the cupboard are generally assumed as ok for people who have been over before.

While I probably would not be upset with any of my friends for not asking if they can make coffee, mix a margarita, etc., I would certainly view a 'guest' (i.e. someone who is not yet a friend) as rude and presumptuous for doing the same. I appreciate the fact that my friends are polite and recognize it as a sign of respectful behavior.

Now if only I could teach some of them to just put stuff in the dishwasher instead of cleaning items by hand afterwards. Ick! (Yes, that's something else I'm particular about.) :)

EDIT: As for the milk issue, I suspect that most of my table (myself included) would probably think someone was mental for wanting to drink milk instead of wine, beer, coffee, tea, or a cocktail unless cookies or some such was involved. In my experience that's just not something normally consumed by adults in social settings. My friends specifically ask when they can use milk (typically to make a smoothie), and while I've always said 'yes', if I specifically ask/tell someone not to do something and they do it anyway there will be a problem.

The best example I can think of here was when (several years ago) a now ex-friend wanted to use my PC to look at some videos online with other guests. My response was, "Yes so long as you don't bring up <this one thing> that's really offensive to me." Not a minute later they loaded up the very content I'd asked them not to and got offended when I rebuked them for it.

Shadow Lodge

Aarontendo wrote:
phantom1592 wrote:
Gotta say, I'm a bit confused by this. WHY does it matter WHAT he took? Where is the 'it's JUST milk' attitude coming from?

When company visits your house (be it friends, or professional visits of any kind, the Queen of England, or even some gamers), it's sorta courteous to offer something. Coffee, soda, beer if you got it. And if someone happens to want a glass of milk, Christ...ITS MILK. So no, it doesn't matter what the item is, there's a certain etiquette in hosting about offering something to your guests. Some of you do actually invite guests in don't you?

Lets be clear right off the bat - hosting a game night is not equivalent to hosting a dinner party. The host of a game night should not bear the full responsibility of providing for his guests as he would if he were having a party. The host has graciously offered up their home because a place was needed. In this situation the guests should overly contribute to the food and beverages. I DM and Host and my players bring drinks and snacks and pay for my share of the pizza BECAUSE I host and DM the game.

Also, I do provide soda and tea. Milk is not a normal beverage request at a social gathering. I buy 1 quart of milk per week for cereal. We use exactly one quart of milk per week. If a guest helps himself to 1 glass that means we will run out of milk, have to change our routine and get breakfast elsewhere. Once, no big deal. After I asked they should stop.

Quote:
Was the dude wrong for taking it when he was told not to...I suppose so. But wouldn't have been an issue had the host been what I would consider decent.

Again I stress, the host is doing you a favor by giving you a location to play - its not the other way around. This is NOT a party.

Quote:
Anyways, I'll just say it. Who the hell is budgeting out the milk to such an extent that come game day (and more than once occasion) there is exactly the requisite amount for X numbers of children's breakfast the next day?

It may not be that they are budgeting milk because of cost. Milk goes bad fast so people typically just buy what they need. If I bought a gallon of milk it would go bad before I drank it so I buy a quart of milk. Foul mouth moocher over there keeps helping himself to a glass and I keep having dry cereal on Saturday or Sunday. I ask him to please bring his own and he doesn't because he doesn't care.


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If I were to guess, I'm sure it had nothing to do with the OP's original list. It's probably something else that he's not even aware of.


Jason S wrote:
If I were to guess, I'm sure it had nothing to do with the OP's original list. It's probably something else that he's not even aware of.

I just have to ask: The "S" in your name doesn't stand for "Statham," does it?

Osirion

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Evil Lincoln wrote:
Refuses? I thought most people avoided it due to an allergy or sensitivity... Why on earth would anyone cut out gluten for other reasons?

Guy I work with wasn't allergic; he just read somewhere it was healthier. After a year or so of that, he says he has now develped allergies -- i.e., lost the ability to eat/digest it. You'd be amazed how many people voluntarily eliminate whole categories of foods from their diet, and how many of those things are mutually contradictory with types of foods that other people won't eat.

Like people on that Atkins thing who won't touch anything with carbohydrates (I work with a bunch of them, too), and then the aforementioned vegans, and then the seeming majority of guys under 30 who refuse to eat any vegetables whatsoever, and the vast number of others who refuse to eat "anything Asian." Maybe people in my gaming group have one or more of those restrictions (whether innate or self-imposed), but I'm far too lazy to interrogate them to find out which ones if any, and then cook on top of game prepping as GM. That's bad of me, but not as bad as it could be, I guess. No one has complained to me about BYOF yet, anyway.

It's been suggested that cutting out Gluten without specific medical advice to do so is actually bad for you (possibly worse than eating it when you can't process it).

All things in moderation, people!

Osirion

Kirth Gersen wrote:
hogarth wrote:
That's bog standard in Canada (and other snowy regions?).
Yeah, I think maybe it's a northern thing. In general, Southerners don't seem to get it.

Maybe it's a "die with your boots on" thing?

Andoran

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Jason S wrote:
If I were to guess, I'm sure it had nothing to do with the OP's original list. It's probably something else that he's not even aware of.
I just have to ask: The "S" in your name doesn't stand for "Statham," does it?

Dude, you just made me read his post in that voice. Awesome.

Qadira

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Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:
If I get to count each major variation as a seperate curse (the difference between "Thor Smash It!," "Thor Smash It With a Hammer!" and "Thor Smash it In The Crotch," to give some analogy curses as examples of what I am talking about) would bring me to dozens at least.

And don't forget my two favorites: "Thor H. Odinson!" and "Thor Odinson on a Furtherprofanity Pogo Stick!"


Jal Dorak wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
hogarth wrote:
That's bog standard in Canada (and other snowy regions?).
Yeah, I think maybe it's a northern thing. In general, Southerners don't seem to get it.
Maybe it's a "die with your boots on" thing?

More like a "try not to track in mud from the rain/snow" thing.

Or maybe that's just in Scandinavia. :)


Kirth Gersen wrote:

I have to admit that, as a host, it's important to recognize that there are a number of rules that essentially cannot be expected of guests, and you might as well give up trying.

1. The "no shoes" thing, which Mrs Gersen at first requested. Nobody (except maybe players who have lived in Japan) will ever take their shoes off in your home unless you physically stop them at the door and specifically ask them each time they enter. No matter how many times they visit, and no matter how many people show up at once, I found myself having to do this with each person individually, with each visit. Even then, you get looks from people as if you're telling them to strip naked. I long ago gave up and figured it wasn't worth it -- cleaning up afterwards is a lot easier than enforcing the policy.

A couple of thoughts.

(A) Did you provide slippers for all your guests when you were asking them to take off their street shoes? I believe this is pretty common practice in Eastern countries.

(B) I think the "strip naked" may be on the right track but not entirely accurate for some people. I think a better way of looking at it is, think of asking them to play in their underwear. Some folk sometimes have underwear that aren't exactly something to be proud of showing off. Perhaps they aren't wearing any, perhaps it is stained, perhaps it has holes in it, perhaps it has been worn more than a day. Socks tend to be thought of as undergarments to a lot of people. And as such, similar conditions may apply to them. If someone is wearing mismatched socks and/or socks with holes in them and that are smelly, they may not feel entirely comfortable exposing them for all to see. Especially if they have "friends" that like to tease them (perhaps intending good nature ribbing, still it can make them feel embarrassed). Or maybe their feet get cold at the home.

The slipper thing might help with a lot of the concerns from (B), though if their feet are too smelly or dirty, you might not be comfortable loaning some out. Maybe ask everyone to buy a new pair of slippers and bring them over, or give them to the players as gifts, to be kept there and pick ones that are unique (so people can feel comfortable wearing their "own" pair).


maouse wrote:
Se la vi.

C'est la vie ;)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Jason S wrote:
If I were to guess, I'm sure it had nothing to do with the OP's original list. It's probably something else that he's not even aware of.
I just have to ask: The "S" in your name doesn't stand for "Statham," does it?
Dude, you just made me read his post in that voice. Awesome.

Now I can't stop hearing it.


Kryzbyn wrote:

No one in any of my gaming groups has ever just helped themselves to anything of mine without asking first, even if permission was granted previously. I'm kind of amazed at the sense of entitlement that would make one think they could just open my fridge and consume whatever they wanted without asking.

On a side note, if that did happen, it would quickly be used as a learning moment as said person was immediately made fun of mercilessly by myself or others in the group.

Lol are you Australian too?

That's how we do it down under - you do something socially unacceptable, you get told via dry wit and pointed humour. These reminders of your faux pas can continue on for weeks or months.

For my group, games are usually at my house, as my wife and I both play and we have children. Our group (mostly single guys under 35) are generally respectful, but very messy. We play out in our garage/studio, where the mess is out of the house, and can be cleaned up at our leisure.

We generally serve coffee and muffins or something mid-way through the sesh, but people generally bring munchies to share on an informal basis. If someone shows up for 4-5 sessions without chipping in, the mockery begins :)

If I was at someone else's house that I wasn't already close friends with, I would make sure I was on supergood behaviour all the time. No question. Otherwise I'd never be asked back.


Something else I just thought of: The condition the host keeps his house in directly affects how aware I am of my behaviors in their home. If I notice that the house is neat and organized, and that the hosts are all barefoot, I will remember to take my shoes off and look for a coaster to set under my drink. If the hosts appear to be slobs, I get a bit more relaxed. I'm still courteous, but am less concerned with the finer points of being a good guest. It's also been my experience that the people who are uptight about how guests are to behave in their home are also the people who themselves tend to be very neat individuals. They like their order, and guests can interfere with this, causing anxiety.

The shoe thing in our house was more "take your boots off" rather than "take your shoes off." We are from a relatively rural area, and 90% of the people who come to our door have traces of cow or horse manure on their boots, so all boots are to be removed while still on the front porch or, you come in through the basement.


littlehewy wrote:

Lol are you Australian too?

That's how we do it down under - you do something socially unacceptable, you get told via dry wit and pointed humour.

Then surely the "no worries mate, help yourself" mindset is no less alien to you? You can tell HarbinNick we don't eat kittens. It stands to reason that the drop bears get them first...

Anyway, I think CommandoDude bailed on this thread pretty early. I suppose we'll never solve this mystery.


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Twigs wrote:
Then surely the "no worries mate, help yourself" mindset is no less alien to you? You can tell HarbinNick we don't eat kittens. It stands to reason that the drop bears get them first...

Absolutely no worries - particularly with milk. Take my last beer and there may be words.

Wait... You don't eat kittens?


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If nothing else, this thread illustrates the infinite variations in our domestic culture, which, in some cases, is mildy surprising.

The whole "host supplying food to gaming guests" has never been an assumption of any of my gaming groups or members. The host is supplying their domicile for our use, as well as use of the facilities and what not. It's long been our assumption that we'll all pitch in for community food, and far more often than not, cover the share of the host and the GM (if they're different people). If the host doesn't provide food, they're not a bad host, at least to me and mine.

Oftentimes, the hosts (including myself) will provide food, but it's not done out of any sense of obligation - it's done because we want to. I dig pasta, and there's not really anywhere around here to get take-out pasta to bring back for a game session, so if I'm going to cook it, I enjoy cooking a large batch to share with the group. Likewise, other folks in the group enjoy cooking, and will do the same thing.

The shoes thing is interesting, too. Most folks around here don't really care, but those in my social circle will ask if it's someplace they're unfamiliar with, and several hosts have asked to have guests remove their shoes, and there's ZERO issue with it on anyone's part. I'd say about 50% of the places I visit desire no shoes in their house, whereas the others just don't care. I'm in the latter - unless your shoes are completely muddy, I really don't care that you wear shoes in my house. I do, sometimes.


I'm going to start requiring my players to amputate their legs when entering my house.

But we play over MapTool, so that's okay!


Brian E. Harris wrote:

If nothing else, this thread illustrates the infinite variations in our domestic culture, which, in some cases, is mildy surprising.

The whole "host supplying food to gaming guests" has never been an assumption of any of my gaming groups or members. The host is supplying their domicile for our use, as well as use of the facilities and what not. It's long been our assumption that we'll all pitch in for community food, and far more often than not, cover the share of the host and the GM (if they're different people). If the host doesn't provide food, they're not a bad host, at least to me and mine.

Oftentimes, the hosts (including myself) will provide food, but it's not done out of any sense of obligation - it's done because we want to. I dig pasta, and there's not really anywhere around here to get take-out pasta to bring back for a game session, so if I'm going to cook it, I enjoy cooking a large batch to share with the group. Likewise, other folks in the group enjoy cooking, and will do the same thing.

The shoes thing is interesting, too. Most folks around here don't really care, but those in my social circle will ask if it's someplace they're unfamiliar with, and several hosts have asked to have guests remove their shoes, and there's ZERO issue with it on anyone's part. I'd say about 50% of the places I visit desire no shoes in their house, whereas the others just don't care. I'm in the latter - unless your shoes are completely muddy, I really don't care that you wear shoes in my house. I do, sometimes.

Pretty much totally this too.


Another note on taking shoes off and a possible origin of the custom:

I'm a SCAdian, meaning I get dressed up in Medieval and garb a lot, including footwear. The shoes (at least European shoes) tend to be difficult to slip on and off; it really is a task donning your boots every day. Most people at events put them on in the morning and forget about them until they bed down for the night.
Also, ever since the first shoes post on this thread I've had the lyrics to the Beverly Hillbillies theme stuck in my head: "Set a spell, Take your shoes off. Y'all come back now, y'hear?"
Coming from the sticks myself, I know that modern work boots hold an equivalent difficulty in removing. Usually you only come inside and take them off if you plan on being inside for a while. It's why my dad switch to wearing rubber waders when he goes out to check cows, they slip right off.

When you remove your shoes in a house, you are saying you are welcome to "set a spell" with the inhabitants. At an event, you don't remove your shoes or cloak in someone elses encampment until they ask you to, meaning you are then welcome to stay for at least an hour or two (long enough to justify the task of removing one's boots).

Thinking about this makes me wish we would go back to an older form of hospitality. I miss it when I'm not at events.


Nepherti wrote:
When you remove your shoes in a house, you are saying you are welcome to "set a spell" with the inhabitants.

Dunno about your group's, but our gaming sessions generally last at least "a spell."


I know that, I'm just getting to an origin of the custom of removing one's shoes and why it can be considered a big deal to people.

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