The Gentleman's Paladin: How best to create a classy holy warrior?


Advice

Liberty's Edge

I've got this idea for a character I'd love to roleplay, but being a little bit of a powergamer (and being in groups with lots of powergamers), I'd like him to be useful to the party and viable in combat. So I turn to you for help, Advice Board!

The concept is a gentleman paladin with a rapier, something along the lines of a Inigo Montoya with holy powers. A genteel lightly-armored fencer with a code of honor.

There's a lot of ideas floating around my head, but none have quite gelled. Paladin/rogue perhaps? Could a paladin with a dip in duelist work? Lore warden archetype? Help!


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I don't have mechanical advice for this, but I'd like to applaud the idea of playing a paladin who isn't a jerk. Just remember to put the needs of others first.

Dark Archive

there is nothing bad with doing a Paladin/Rogue(/Duelist too maybe), high dex and charisma (obvious i guess), but remember that paladins also cast spells, maybe consentrate on that?


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
brreitz wrote:

I've got this idea for a character I'd love to roleplay, but being a little bit of a powergamer (and being in groups with lots of powergamers), I'd like him to be useful to the party and viable in combat. So I turn to you for help, Advice Board!

The concept is a gentleman paladin with a rapier, something along the lines of a Inigo Montoya with holy powers. A genteel lightly-armored fencer with a code of honor.

There's a lot of ideas floating around my head, but none have quite gelled. Paladin/rogue perhaps? Could a paladin with a dip in duelist work? Lore warden archetype? Help!

Even though it might be a "lesser" weapon I think I'd suggest you go with a sword cane. The paladin's ability to do a weapon bond works with this I think. I like the idea of the Paladin/Duelist.


brreitz wrote:

I've got this idea for a character I'd love to roleplay, but being a little bit of a powergamer (and being in groups with lots of powergamers), I'd like him to be useful to the party and viable in combat. So I turn to you for help, Advice Board!

The concept is a gentleman paladin with a rapier, something along the lines of a Inigo Montoya with holy powers. A genteel lightly-armored fencer with a code of honor.

There's a lot of ideas floating around my head, but none have quite gelled. Paladin/rogue perhaps? Could a paladin with a dip in duelist work? Lore warden archetype? Help!

We have a Bard who dipped Paladin in our group - ostensibly to benefit from Divine Grace - and then went on to become an Arcane Archer... but she always played it as if she were a missionary, spreading the word of her God through stories, parables and wisdom.

Liberty's Edge

Lokie wrote:
Even though it might be a "lesser" weapon I think I'd suggest you go with a sword cane.

I like that idea a lot.


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
brreitz wrote:
Lokie wrote:
Even though it might be a "lesser" weapon I think I'd suggest you go with a sword cane.

I like that idea a lot.

If your DM is allowing traits you can even benefit from a MW sword cane by picking up the Heirloom Weapon trait from the Adventurer's Armory. Adds a nice flavor to the character as he wields the blade of his ancestor and all.


I played a Bard once, very similar to how you describe your character. Pally/Bard might be the way to go. I'm not sure the character you describe would ever feel like "sneak attack" or "spring attack" is an appropriate action in gentlemanly combat.


Inigo montoya was not in any way a paladin. Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Good at best.


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A Paladin of Saerene lends itself to this. Dervish Dance plus scimitar lets you play a high dex warrior and add damage to dex. It also allows entry into the duelist PRC


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Ask the GM if you can trade in Heavy and Medium armor for free weapon finesse and 4 skillpoints, and call it an archetype.


Cavalier would get the bonus feats that would help with more feat intensive finesse combat - plus it lets you do the chaotic good shtick that is a little more up Inigo's alley. Also take a look at the Chevalier prestige class.

Liberty's Edge

My last pre-PF paladin was a redeemed rogue with a 3.5 full BAB prestige class that helped improve sneak attack (Shadowbane something or another). Coincidentally, he was not a jerk Taliban-paladin, and was pragmatic, humble and forgiving in his Goodey-Goodeyness. He was in favour of striking first from surprise against known irredeemable Evil folk.

The character worked OK but he was pretty sub-optimal for a long time. You end up deciding between light armour (being hit all the time) or heavy armour (and missing out on lots of the good rogue stuff like evasion), you delay the good spells and dampen your smite in exchange for sneak attack and skills, basically.

I'd think there would be more fruit to be had in just playing a paladin built with more int and dex (for the skills), weapon finesse and dervish dance etc. as suggested above, or one built with finesse, high dex and rapier and shield.


You could go with a few levels in samurai. Also I feel a stylish mustache while not actually providing you with any bonuses goes along way to make a character "classy".


This isn't class or specific build advice, but If you're going to focus on Dexterity might I suggest that at some point in his career you focus on obtaining Celestial Armor? Would fit quite well, while giving a decent amount of protection.


Dip a level of Monk.

-Flowing Monk with Improved Reposition is basically "CMB check to negate attacks 1/turn"
-Master of Many Styles puts you on the fast track to Crane Wing. Or you could do a level of Unarmed Fighter instead.
-Sohei has a nice level 1 never surprised ability, and you can flurry in armor (interesting if you can get rapier as favored weapon and Crusader's Flurry)


I recomend not falling into a finesse build. You can put those feats to better use, even if you happen to hold a finesse weapon. Strait paladin could do it, i think, but a dip in fighter may cover for some feat starvation.

A few extra skills will go a long way to holding up your character's persona, so perhaps cavalier dip instead of fighter.

I second the stylish mustache.


Kamelguru wrote:
Ask the GM if you can trade in Heavy and Medium armor for free weapon finesse and 4 skillpoints, and call it an archetype.

This.

Hopefully your DM will work with you to make a musketeer style Paladin.

If you have a decent wisdom, a dip into monk (maneuver master)might help a bit. That extra AC and the ability to add a trip or other CM into your attack cycle would fit the theme. Improved Dirty trick would be awesome ("I cut the varlet's belt so he is slowed then slice a Z in his chest")

Liberty's Edge

Springheeled wrote:
You could go with a few levels in samurai. Also I feel a stylish mustache while not actually providing you with any bonuses goes along way to make a character "classy".

I'd argue that a decent handlebar should give a +1 to everything.


Another benefit of taking a dip in Monk is you get access to the most important Duelist class skill, Acrobatics...
You can't be a duelist without a few flips and Chandelier swings.

Grand Lodge

Acrobatics can be gained through a trait.

Liberty's Edge

A swashbuckling paladin, interesting idea. Could do as a straight Paladin with the right traits and a good dex the lack of +3 to acrobatics from being a class ability shouldn't hurt too much. Wear a Chain Shirt, use a sword cane, maybe a rapier for when outside urban settings, or an Aldori Dueling Sword perhaps.

Also make sure to buy a very fancy hat and keep a shaving kit and cologne in your equipment as a gentleman should never be unkempt.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Acrobatics can be gained through a trait.

It sure could but, since I was proposing Monk as a dip anyways, it was a side benefit from the previous post. AND you can spend your traits on something even more spiffy.


You shouldn't really sneak attack as a Pally. I'd take Fighter/Paladin/Duelist for the finesse feats.
P.S.
I'd go for a Tom Selleck stache.

Scarab Sages

That write-up of the Aldori Sword guy that was on here a week ago sounded pretty much right up your alley. I'm unsure if you would be able to do that off a Pally build or not, but he is very much what I would imagine.

Nothing beats a "gentleman"'s 'stache quite like the muttonchop-stache.

Kind of like THIS GUY!

You can even hear him utter things like "I say, good sir, that you are the most contemptible of rogues and I shall have to ask you to arm yourself so that I may demonstrate the courtesies of retribution upon you." just from that picture.

Its a great picture.

Liberty's Edge

This is a great help. A lot of thoughts in no specific order.

Bard - not what I was aiming for, but it would check all the boxes. Lightly armored, healing magic, knowledgeable, and has style. If I'm willing to ditch paladin, this is the route I'd go.

Aldori Sword Lord is cool, but I'm not sure if I could pull it off with paladin. I do want to use the archetype to make a "dancing instructor" though.

A dip into monk seems like a good alternative to rogue. Some Crane Style would go along way towards making this guy combat-viable.

Some have pointed out that Inygo isn't really a good example of LG, which is true, but I couldn't quite think of another example. BltzKrg242 mentioned musketeers, which also what I was picturing (minus the muskets, of course)(although lot of the flavor could be kept with a dueling pistol and the musketeer archetype...).

I'm starting to distance myself from going with rogue (just too many bits that don't sync), but I do think that a rogue with the rake and sanctified rogue archetypes could capture some of the feel.

The sword of valor archetype seems like it's a good fit. The only downsides are the loss of divine grace, and that this fellow doesn't really feel like an Iomedae-worshiper. Close, though.

The 'stashe is a must. I intent to take at least five levels of the "has a mustache" prestige class.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I recommend playing a paladin of Shelyn.

As for mechanics, you don't have to try very hard to make a viable paladin, since s'mores will carry you over the line in most situations.

Silver Crusade

brreitz wrote:
The concept is a gentleman with a rapier, something along the lines of a Inigo Montoya with holy powers. A genteel lightly-armored fencer with a code of honor.

This removes the class restriction. You can role play any class like a paladin. For making a character that fits the discreption. Removed restrictions that hamper character creation. Then work to making the character fit the consept.

Just going to say this fist more close to what you want then paladin.
Bard(Dawnflower Dervish)
Religious mystics who use a spinning dance as part of thier worship. Many bards of her faith hone their skills with dance and scimitar to become dervish dancers, but some tread a similar path focused more on magic, and healing then swordplay.

Liberty's Edge

calagnar wrote:

You can role play any class like a paladin.

Very, very true. The reason why I wanted to go with paladin though, is that I find the Pathfinder paladin very interested mechanically, and I've played a lot of bards. Like, maybe 50% bards total.


I think paladin with maybe some levels in duelist would fit the bill. It gets some good skills, and if you have a high int, you can do pretty well in light armor. The best part is no drop in your BAB, and a bump to your worst save. Even with a light weapon, you'll be hitting a lot.

Of course, paladins don't really need a high int or dex, but you could get by on average strength with a dex-based build and dervish dance or some other thing that lets you add your dex to damage.

I thought I saw a weapon property that allows that, but I can't seem to find it now.

Sovereign Court

@ brreitz I'm playing a paladin in Cheliax (yayy ... fun), and she is more rogue / dexterity driven then shining armour on a destrier charging through the streets (not sure the Dottari would deal with that in a friendly matter ...)

A paladin doesn't have to be a platemail wearing, enemy charging lunatic :)

I can imagine your dapper gentlemen with weapon finesse and focus on his sword cane, twitching his moustache as he comes upon some scoundrels up to no good, turning to his companions and saying "Tally-ho old Chap, the hunt is upon us," placing his hat down carefully before drawing his cane and swinging his cape off his shoulder, effectively dual weilding the cane and cape.

I agree with others on being able to drop the more traditional Armour feats with your DM's permission, though I can't see why a paladin wouldn't use sneak attack (once someone is trying to kill you and your companions, surely a paladin would use any trick they had to drop their foes) if you did dip into rogue.

I as a DM am always willing to allow players to go with what they'd like to play, after all, it's about the players' enjoyment, and interesting characters make for enjoyment for the DM (they should be having fun as well).

One of the best things about PF is it is almost infinitely variable with the ability to create your own Archetypes ...

I'd love to be running a game with your Gentleman in it, it would be a truly "Jolly good show, what! ... Tally-ho!!!"

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