So, not too long ago i had a game session with my friends and older brother, all was going well until tragedy struck and one pc (my friend) up and murdered another pc (my brother) with little warning. Now inevitably the game devolved into a arguing match of "wtf" both in and out of game and both the murderer's character and the player left in a huff. I'm posting this cause i can't wrap my head around the situation and figured some of you would find the story entertaining and would have some comments on the situation.
So here are the details: the party consisted of five adventurers all of good alignment, a mute human female monk 10th lvl about 4 ft tall, a saytre bard 7th lvl, a human restless soul ranger 11th lvl (me), a halfelf sorcerer with gold dragon bloodline lvl 7(the murdered), and a human barbarian duskblade 9th lvl (the murderer) The barbarian is just smart enough to get away being a duskblade, but the story behind him gets slightly complicated as follows: his tribe worshipped thor, and in the storyline we had thor had died, and to keep the people from going insane, the shamans of his tribe turned to arcane power to hide their lost divine powers. They had managed to keep up this charade for quite some time, and when arcane leanings were discovered in the barbarian they took him under their tutelage and taught him more powers, and told him he was gifted by the gods, and somewhere along the line, he came to believe he was the reincarnation of thor who was not yet dead, and through some adventuring hated dragons.
Now the encounter goes as such. Our party of monk, ranger and barbarian comes to the rescue of a caravan being escorted by the bard and the sorcerer, standard save the day and party hook up after final escort to town, sorcerer shows off his fire breath to impress the party. On our way to the next encounter up in the mountains at a monastery, the barbarian decided to have some fun and puts dancing lights around the rangers head as a prank which gathers hilarity from reaction, the sorcerer seeing good fun to be had, uses drench to get the barbarian wet.
And this is the fateful moment, the barbarian, hearing the casting of the wicked dragon like creature and then getting soaked turns with out any warning and throws his powerfully enchanted warhammer at the sorcerer using the lightning spell stored in the weapon, hits, crits and rolls max damage on weapon and high damage on spell flat out killing the sorcerer in one hit. Now i know that im a bit biased by the fact it was my brother that was murdered by what i think was a lousy reason so i figured i would ask: was there a bit of over reaction on the barbarian? Or was he justified murdering as he did. And how the hell do you keep from having a in party feud or fight? We haven't gamed since as a group.
I'd say that he over reacted. First the barbarian sounds just a little crazy and two, a party needs a reason to work together so that they put racial hatreds aside and get the job done. Maybe have it be a point of friction every now and again but the quest should come first.
No good alignment character will use a lethal weapon + Spell only because a companion drenched him.
So, not too long ago i had a game session with my friends and older brother, all was going well until tragedy struck and one pc (my friend) up and murdered another pc (my brother) with little warning. Now inevitably the game devolved into a arguing match of "wtf" both in and out of game and both the murderer's character and the player left in a huff. I'm posting this cause i can't wrap my head around the situation and figured some of you would find the story entertaining and would have some comments on the situation.
So here are the details: the party consisted of five adventurers all of good alignment, a mute human female monk 10th lvl about 4 ft tall, a saytre bard 7th lvl, a human restless soul ranger 11th lvl (me), a halfelf sorcerer with gold dragon bloodline lvl 7(the murdered), and a human barbarian duskblade 9th lvl (the murderer) The barbarian is just smart enough to get away being a duskblade, but the story behind him gets slightly complicated as follows: his tribe worshipped thor, and in the storyline we had thor had died, and to keep the people from going insane, the shamans of his tribe turned to arcane power to hide their lost divine powers. They had managed to keep up this charade for quite some time, and when arcane leanings were discovered in the barbarian they took him under their tutelage and taught him more powers, and told him he was gifted by the gods, and somewhere along the line, he came to believe he was the reincarnation of thor who was not yet dead, and through some adventuring hated dragons.
Now the encounter goes as such. Our party of monk, ranger and barbarian comes to the rescue of a caravan being escorted by the bard and the sorcerer, standard save the day and party hook up after final escort to town, sorcerer shows off his fire breath to impress the party. On our way to the next encounter up in the mountains at a monastery, the barbarian decided to have some fun and puts dancing lights around the rangers head as a prank which gathers hilarity from...
I don't know why he does not have spellcraft. :)
With that aside it was water, and if a caster wants to kill you they won't dump water on you. The situation as described clearly makes it a prank, not a spell that would be used to kill someone.
I would like to see the IC and OoC explanation for this.
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I just can't see a Good character who, after being harmlessly pranked, would launch a full power lethal attack at a person who had likely helped him on his own adventures and likely saved his life, even hatred of dragons/dragon bloodline sorcerer.
Lets put it in a more real world example (blah blah real world alignment blah blah): Lets say your group of soldiers in WW2 is stuck behind enemy lines in Germany. You hate the Japanese for Pearl Harbor, but a half-Japanese man is willing to help you, even fight with you, against the Reich. After some time together, he slips a whoopee cushion under your seat as a prank, so you shoot him full auto in the face.
Really?
I could see, either with cold words or an angry yell, that the barbarian declare to the sorcerer "Do not act as if you were a friend I would forgive such actions from, because you are not. I still do not trust you, dragonspawn, and your actions do not encourage me to do otherwise."
Or just: "Do that again and I will kill you, dragonspawn."
Barbarian does not equal psychopath or even anger-management issues, unless he wants to put that specifically in his backstory, in which case ANY class can be that way, and barbarian is not an excuse. Besides, you can have plenty of interparty drama without killing party members. Sarenrae help me, my group is proof of that. Your player needs to learn how to be a team player before he tries to be edgy and dark with his roleplaying.
Barbarian pranked + fully lethal attack does not compute for a good alignment, unless there are A LOT of extenuating circumstances; maybe the barbarian was blinded and didn't see where the drench came from, maybe he'd never tasted pure water before ever and thought it was poison. Somehow though your story doesn't seem to suggest any such circumstances.
@ The Black Bard and OP: the original story doesn't seem to suggest that the barbarian knew the sorcerer or vice versa. The way I read it they just met at the first encounter and were still "getting to know" one another on the road to the next encounter at the monastery. I could see the barbarian being on edge then. But again, I refer back to alignment and agree w/TBB - Intimidate or at most non-lethal would've been a more appropriate response, followed by the hairy eyeball and intense scrutiny.
As for dealing w/gamer feuds... talk it out, no matter how socially awkward, and deal with the issue. I've seen a lot of these over the years; one guy doesn't like another in real life so in the game they invent some reason to steal from/murder/frame/otherwise annoy their real-life foe's character.
In each instance of this and many other kinds of feuds, it goes one of 2 ways - either we have a REALLY uncomfortable and somewhat childishly-dramatic conversation and deal with the feelings of both the offender and the victim (one time we resolved with a battle-royale wrestling match in the backyard) or we DON'T have the conversation and eventually hate and rage fester and explode, ending all future attempts at reconciliation games.
Think back, be objective and be fair. Was your brother doing anything in real life that could've been annoying to the barbarian player? Vice Versa could the barbarian's player been picking on your brother? What was going on behind the scenes that may have been the catalyst for such extreme retribution?
As far as i know and the best explanations i've gotten out of him is that his IC and OoC reasons are the same, something along the lines of: "my character hates dragons and i don't know him, and it doesn't matter what spell he put on me, it was directed at me from what for all i know is a evil dragon in our midst."
I was personally convinced that he just did not like my brother, because my brother is a bit odd and can be annoying, but as annoying as he is its all in fun cause its a game. I have gone and done things to get back at his characters for being annoying, but being good aligned they were all non lethal or pranks. But when i confronted my friend he swore up and down that it wasn't any personal feelings over my brother.
So if i take him at his word it was what he perceived as the appropriate actions to a "attack" on him by a hated creature. I have recently come to blame his other gaming group he has been playing with, they play new world of darkness and nwod doesn't use alignment. They just seem to use world views and perception. But i never played and dont know.
And our conversation/argument ended with "well fine then im leaving and not playing this character ever again."
As far as i know and the best explanations i've gotten out of him is that his IC and OoC reasons are the same, something along the lines of: "my character hates dragons and i don't know him, and it doesn't matter what spell he put on me, it was directed at me from what for all i know is a evil dragon in our midst."
I was personally convinced that he just did not like my brother, because my brother is a bit odd and can be annoying, but as annoying as he is its all in fun cause its a game. I have gone and done things to get back at his characters for being annoying, but being good aligned they were all non lethal or pranks. But when i confronted my friend he swore up and down that it wasn't any personal feelings over my brother.
So if i take him at his word it was what he perceived as the appropriate actions to a "attack" on him by a hated creature. I have recently come to blame his other gaming group he has been playing with, they play new world of darkness and nwod doesn't use alignment. They just seem to use world views and perception. But i never played and dont know.
And our conversation/argument ended with "well fine then im leaving and not playing this character ever again."
You might have to break down the idea of good vs neutral vs evil in your games.
In many movies or books the "good" guy does things that are not good by PF standards of good. That leads people to confuse being a good guy with being a hero.
Good creatures seek to preserve life, and only kill because they have too, not because they dislike someone.
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yeah, personally I would just continue on like as if the barbarian wasnt even part of the game in the first place.
I would say that you are better off without a player like that.
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I have to agree with Pan and J3C. First and foremost a group of players has to want to play together. There are lots of ways a player can justify not killing someone when they think their character would believe it was justified. The simple fact is that players killing players is often indicative of a poorly composed group. You could have discussed alignment with him and argues about what should have happened but that monster would likely have reared its head somewhere else.
I'd say count yourself lucky and move on.
The rason the levels are so different is we had decided to combine two different games' characters, as well as letting two new characters being made, and we have had a tradition of having someone with a new character make them either 1st level or two levels lower than the next lowest lvl playe. It has made games very interesting and fun. And so far it has been a blessing playing without him. But i never considered there being a problem cause i had played with his character from first level and he had never done anything evil before. But alas i was wrong
As far as i know and the best explanations i've gotten out of him is that his IC and OoC reasons are the same, something along the lines of: "my character hates dragons and i don't know him, and it doesn't matter what spell he put on me, it was directed at me from what for all i know is a evil dragon in our midst."
I was personally convinced that he just did not like my brother, because my brother is a bit odd and can be annoying, but as annoying as he is its all in fun cause its a game. I have gone and done things to get back at his characters for being annoying, but being good aligned they were all non lethal or pranks. But when i confronted my friend he swore up and down that it wasn't any personal feelings over my brother.
So if i take him at his word it was what he perceived as the appropriate actions to a "attack" on him by a hated creature. I have recently come to blame his other gaming group he has been playing with, they play new world of darkness and nwod doesn't use alignment. They just seem to use world views and perception. But i never played and dont know.
And our conversation/argument ended with "well fine then im leaving and not playing this character ever again."
I mean no offense but... How old is everyone? This seems like it was blown out of proportion at several different points.
First the player killing another for little to no reason.
Second the Out of Game huff that led to a breakdown when it should have been calmly discussed. At worse you have a rerolled character or a retcon.
Third is the weird disparity in levels that leads me to believe this is a young group.
My advice... remind the group this is supposed to be fun. That is is a game. And that a game should not impact a real friendship... even one that has just started. Gamers are rare. The older you get the harder it is to find a great group of friends to enjoy it with. People get jobs, get married, move off, ect. Don't let a potential life long gaming friend leave over a silly in game argument.
Thats my advice.
I mean no offense but... How old is everyone? This seems like it was blown out of proportion at several different points.
First the player killing another for little to no reason.
Second the Out of Game huff that led to a breakdown when it should have been calmly discussed. At worse you have a rerolled character or a retcon.
Third is the weird disparity in levels that leads me to believe this is a young group.
My advice... remind the group this is supposed to be fun. That is is a game. And that a game should not impact a real friendship... even one that has just started. Gamers are rare. The older you get the harder it is to find a great group of friends to enjoy it with. People get jobs, get married, move off, ect. Don't let a potential life long gaming friend leave...
We are all over 25 and most have been playing for several years. I am the n00b in the group and am into only my 2nd year of playing.
As previously said, the level disparity was due to a combination of new characters to this perticular adventure and a migration of characters from other games into this one. It does seem a bit messy but it worked out until the unexpected attack and death of the PC.
being the female half sorcerer of gold dragon blood, being C/G and 7th level, having a little fun at the expence of the barbarian, ended up in my death. in all fairness, the barbarian asked me if i wanted to take back the drench spell, and i said no, whats done is done. the player playing the barbarian has never really liked me because i am a bit of a show off, but i do it for fun. i bring a bit of comedy to the game and i try to keep the situation lighthearted and not too serious, it is a game after all. yes the barbarian overreacted, but as i saw it during game play, he was starting to pack up before the incedent and he wanted to make a point that he could kill me and he did, i didn't take the death to heart, cause as a DM i remind all players that characters can and do die. i was willing to reincarnate the character completly up to the dm, all at random, even willing to play a kobold barbarian, lol. the group minus the barbarian continued on dragging my lifeless corpse to the town and they raised me from the dead, essentially im a lvl 5 sorcerer now and im ok with it, i just need 2 weeks of rest and a few thousand GP for the restoration spells to get back to normal. i even sold off my mithril mace to pay for the spells. but on a differ game, i am playing another sorcerer and he seems to be at the front line of the fighting, almost getting devoured by slimes, swarms of bats, rats, ants, why doesnt the elf fighter, centaur ranger take up the front line for once, lmao.
being the female half sorcerer of gold dragon blood, being C/G and 7th level, having a little fun at the expence of the barbarian, ended up in my death. in all fairness, the barbarian asked me if i wanted to take back the drench spell, and i said no, whats done is done. the player playing the barbarian has never really liked me because i am a bit of a show off, but i do it for fun. i bring a bit of comedy to the game and i try to keep the situation lighthearted and not too serious, it is a game after all. yes the barbarian overreacted, but as i saw it during game play, he was starting to pack up before the incedent and he wanted to make a point that he could kill me and he did, i didn't take the death to heart, cause as a DM i remind all players that characters can and do die. i was willing to reincarnate the character completly up to the dm, all at random, even willing to play a kobold barbarian, lol. the group minus the barbarian continued on dragging my lifeless corpse to the town and they raised me from the dead, essentially im a lvl 5 sorcerer now and im ok with it, i just need 2 weeks of rest and a few thousand GP for the restoration spells to get back to normal. i even sold off my mithril mace to pay for the spells. but on a differ game, i am playing another sorcerer and he seems to be at the front line of the fighting, almost getting devoured by slimes, swarms of bats, rats, ants, why doesnt the elf fighter, centaur ranger take up the front line for once, lmao.
by they way im almost 35 lol
I'd say the Barbarian was out-of-line and their reasoning is so contrived as to warrant calling BS on them.
The only player I've ever banned from my local group (a friend actually) displayed similar dickishness during the meet-up session of all our characters. They basically refused to cooperate with the backstory we'd all (himself included) come up with as to why our characters would work together. Thus instead of actually getting to play the adventure the brand new GM had prepared, the whole session was basically trying to form the party until his barbarian finally snapped and started attacking the rest of us.
IMO when it is established that you're doing the whole 'bring the party together' scenario, it's pretty much expected protocol to look-for, find, and MAKE reasons for your characters to adventure together so you can get on with the actual adventure. Dragging out or intentionally disrupting that amounts to nothing more than grandstanding and being a game-wrecking diva. To use a computer analogy, it's essential a Denial of Service attack on the game itself.
If it were my table, I'd say that player just failed their 'interview' by showing a complete lack of respect for the social contract necessary for such a game. Based off of the details I've read, I personally would not invite them back for another game, friend or not.