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So not having sex is weird?


Off-Topic Discussions

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Qadira

Olympian professes virgin status


2 people marked this as a favorite.

It's beyond wierd, and often attached to a whole bunch of oddball belief systems that can just as often cause a lot of problems for women in later life.

Hang-ups are rarely helpfull.

Andoran

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Why are we listening to Fox...oh wait, dingo.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

She.....probably had an accident with alcohol in her blood-surrogate before her decanting.

Less stitches, more riches....

Andoran

the irony is asexuals

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Gark the Goblin wrote:
the irony is asexuals

*raises hand*

Some people are simply not into sex. Certainly no weirder a thing that some of the other practices we already see.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

...I practice a lot when I'm alone?

Andoran

I actually know a lot of asexuals they're all cooler than your average douche for some reason.

The other irony is religions that say that you have to have children.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:

She.....probably had an accident with alcohol in her blood-surrogate before her decanting.

Less stitches, more riches....

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.........

.....I don't get it.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

Actually, there is scientific evidence to indicate that about 10% of the human population or so is sexuality-wise asexual. They aren't abstaining, they just really aren't interested. The popular term among among those of that orientation is 'ace'.

Shadow Lodge

Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
Actually, there is scientific evidence to indicate that about 10% of the human population or so is sexuality-wise asexual. They aren't abstaining, they just really aren't interested. The popular term among among those of that orientation is 'ace'.

She's not it. She's saying its hard and she's saving herself for marriage.

Shadow Lodge

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
Actually, there is scientific evidence to indicate that about 10% of the human population or so is sexuality-wise asexual. They aren't abstaining, they just really aren't interested. The popular term among among those of that orientation is 'ace'.
She's not it. She's saying its hard and she's saving herself for marriage.

That's fair, but I still don't see why it's a bad thing.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Orthos wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
Actually, there is scientific evidence to indicate that about 10% of the human population or so is sexuality-wise asexual. They aren't abstaining, they just really aren't interested. The popular term among among those of that orientation is 'ace'.
She's not it. She's saying its hard and she's saving herself for marriage.
That's fair, but I still don't see why it's a bad thing.

Because of "Community, Stability, Identity."

"Community" means that all persons must work together to maximize the greatest happiness for society as a whole, and it occurs through the artificially implanted ideas of "Identity" that each person has. Some are alphas, betas, gammas, etc., but each person is supposed to be happy with their own identity. Finally, "Stability" is the ultimate goal of society because only through stability can happiness be maintained and all unpleasant feelings and emotions be eradicated.

So, she either needs to get to it, or be taken in for reeducation.


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Orthos wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
Actually, there is scientific evidence to indicate that about 10% of the human population or so is sexuality-wise asexual. They aren't abstaining, they just really aren't interested. The popular term among among those of that orientation is 'ace'.
She's not it. She's saying its hard and she's saving herself for marriage.
That's fair, but I still don't see why it's a bad thing.

I love the conundrum posed by this thread. I can see the cogs turning.

"Hmmm,......those Christies are obviously deviants. Not going around f@&&ing. Worshiping their supernatural being. But,.....how do I call them deviants, when I might offend some asexual dude who, for all I know, might just be some normal atheist? Hmmm....."

Qadira

Orthos wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
Actually, there is scientific evidence to indicate that about 10% of the human population or so is sexuality-wise asexual. They aren't abstaining, they just really aren't interested. The popular term among among those of that orientation is 'ace'.
She's not it. She's saying its hard and she's saving herself for marriage.
That's fair, but I still don't see why it's a bad thing.

Only to those who are prejudiced.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I must be missing half this conversation by not listening to the video.

Shadow Lodge

I couldn't be bothered. I'm more -_- regarding Shifty's comments.

Andoran

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I agree with him. Sexual repression sucks.

Shadow Lodge

4 people marked this as a favorite.

I think a lot of people could do to learn a lot of self-control.


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If someone wants to save him/herself for marriage its their own personal matter. As long as they don't try impose such rules on anyone else everything is ok.

Spoiler:
Count me under TOZ's "I must be missing half this conversation by not listening to the video."

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's very much a balance. Too much emotional regulation leaves you numb.

Shadow Lodge

Orthos wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
Actually, there is scientific evidence to indicate that about 10% of the human population or so is sexuality-wise asexual. They aren't abstaining, they just really aren't interested. The popular term among among those of that orientation is 'ace'.
She's not it. She's saying its hard and she's saving herself for marriage.
That's fair, but I still don't see why it's a bad thing.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it if that's how you're inclined. (i'd be the last person to throw THAT rock). But I think is a case of religion causing someone a whole lot of stress that just doesn' t need to be there.


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Orthos wrote:
I think a lot of people could do to learn a lot of self-control.

Until you begin to confuse self control with extremism/fundamentalism.

Balance is healthy, extremism is not.

Sexual repression is a horrible thing, and the baggage loaded onto people to exercise 'self control' and 'abstain' is quite often usually just a reflection of the control other people have imposed over the abstainee.

So feel free to be -_- about it all you like, obviously you have different needs and beliefs.


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No mention of religion was made in the video. Only that she is waiting until marriage and it has been hard.

Besides discipline and self control is very important for an athlete. It puts a kabosh on all of her plans if she were to get pregnant.


The NPC wrote:
No mention of religion was made in the video.

Here you go:

conservative views on sex are rooted in her Christian worldview.

Religion steadfastly behind the decision... think I'll stick with the whole repression angle.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

CHOOSING not to have sex is every person's absolute right, at any time, for any reason. That is not the issue here. What is seriously wrong is having huge religious organizations telling people that having premarital sex makes them bad people. Yes, seriously wrong. Sex is something deeply personal, sharply tied to our identities, and an expression of shared joy. I see the religious angle to be more or less "If we can stunt their own personal growth while they are young and vulnerable to our repression, they'll be easier to keep in the fold later". Shame is, sadly, a very appetizing emotion to prey upon for so many people.

Shadow Lodge

3 people marked this as a favorite.

If you assume that premarital sex isn't a major contributer to so many western problems and that religions are automatically wrong just because, sure I can see that. It's not like cultural beliefs and values, or the fact that people act stupid when their drive is going, or that sex has long lasting affects beyond yourself have any part either.

Qadira

Drejk wrote:

If someone wants to save him/herself for marriage its their own personal matter. As long as they don't try impose such rules on anyone else everything is ok.

** spoiler omitted **

Got caught having sex in a shopping trolly in the middle of the street again?


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Well, you could argue all those things.

You could also argue that bad sex education and bad access to preventatives and abortions are what causes those problems, and that growing into a responsible adult means relating to sex in a healthy manner, and that those beliefs and values you bring up are, as I said, inroads for indoctrination. So far, there is far more to support this, given that these factors are comparable in different countries. Simply put: You want low STD spread, few sexual crimes and few teenage pregnancies? Make sure sex education, preventatives and abortions are freely available. And what do the religious organizations do? Well, last I heard they are pretty uniform in their hatred of all three. And the places where they get their wish, abolish those things and preach abstinence, those places are where you get STDs, sex crimes and teenage pregnancies. It's almost as if they WANTED people to suffer... but where would people go to seek help if they suffered, oh where would they go?


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Speaking as one of those who intends to wait until marriage to have sex, I don't feel oppressed, obsessed, or repressed. Likewise, I don't feel controlled, stunted, or overly stressed.

What troubles me, how is most of this thread certain I must be?

*edit. I don't have any STDs, never commited a sexual crime, and would be quite amazed if a parent. Abstinence works just fine, in fact it is the most effective, if you actually practice it.

Andoran

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Lloyd,
To quote the Spartans: "If"


Lloyd Jackson wrote:
Abstinence works just fine, in fact it is the most effective, if you actually practice it.

Works just fine achieving what exactly?

Similarly, what is driving your intention to 'wait'? What difference would it make if you'd slept with one chick or one hundred before you got married? Would it still count as being a 'virgin' with your first chick if you'd only slept with men?


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Lloyd Jackson wrote:

Speaking as one of those who intends to wait until marriage to have sex, I don't feel oppressed, obsessed, or repressed. Likewise, I don't feel controlled, stunted, or overly stressed.

What troubles me, how is most of this thread certain I must be?

*edit. I don't have any STDs, never commited a sexual crime, and would be quite amazed if a parent. Abstinence works just fine, in fact it is the most effective, if you actually practice it.

Abstinence is quite fine. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Abstinence-only education, as pushed by many of the more conservative religions in the US, tends to lead to higher levels of STDs, teen pregnancy and not much, in any, less sex.

Religious emphasis on virginity can lead to the "technical virgin" concept where some one does everything but actual sex and so remains "pure". It can also lead to the idea that, since it's the virginity that matters, if you have sex once, there's no longer any reason to refrain.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Shifty, I sense much antagonism in you.

Abstinence works very well in preventing the spread of STIs and preventing teen pregnancies. However, you do actually have to abstinent, that being the tricky part.

What drives my intention? I do. I genuinely believe that my life will benefit by waiting. There are a few reasons for this.

1) It is part of my beliefs, and indeed they are strongly influenced by an organized Abrahamic faith. Thus far, it worked out quite nicely. I have yet to, seriously, regret following any commandment. I have often, and seriously, regretted the times I have not. The precepts are sound.

2) Of the people I know who have waited until marriage to have sex, none have complained about the years or people they 'missed out' on. However, I am friends with several people who have regretted having sex prior to marriage. In practice it also seems the better option.

What difference would it make? I made a promise that I would not, and I hold it sacred. I do not wish to break it. It would also disappoint my parents and friends, and I would rather not do that. As for other differences, they could be many and unpleasant. Sex can have all manner of consequences.

Virgin: a person who has never had sexual intercourse. If I fornicated with a man, I would not be a virgin. As an aside, I dislike this 'sleep with' that people use. It is not precise. I have slept with many people. I have fornicated with none.

*Edit Thejeff, you are correct. Abstinece-only sex eduction is silly, and dangerous, for the reasons you mentioned.

If a person is a 'technical' virgin for religious reasons, then it is almost certain that they do not understand their faith. If they are of a Abrahmic tradition, then it is certain. Similarly the idea that once you've had sex there is no reason to stop, is foolish. It is not religion that leads to these errors, but loose and muddy thinking.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

I don't have sex all the time. I'm doing it right now.


Ok so its religious based Abstinence.

You have found a grounding for your position in the values you have had indoctrinated into you. Personally I'd find it really odd if someone 'promised me' they'd abstain until marriage... why would that hold value to me? what difference could it possibly make in my life? I can only assume that the promise was made to another person of the same faith which kind of drives me to ask exactly HOW that conversation came about?

Why would a friend be disappointed if you found a partner you loved that you felt a strong connection with and then one thing led to another just as our biology intended?

Did you just wake up one morning, roll out of bed and then dropped it casually in conversation or what?

I'm only antagonistic because at the end of the day we always come back to the Abstainers having a religious root, which they are very rarely up front with.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I generally avoid mentioning religion on the internet as it tends to keep conversations more civil and on topic.

The person I promised was God and it is personal. Though if you don't like that answer, it would also be legitimate to say I promised myself and the corporation, the church, to which I belong. When baptized I made a covenant, a contract, part of which was abstaining from sex until marriage. As I still claim membership in the church, I should fulfill my contract.

A friend would be disappointed that I violated the my beliefs. If I love someone, I should express it in accordance with my beliefs.

Though I'll agree people usually abstain for religious reasons, it is not always the case. Some swimmers at the local college abstain because they do not want to risk messing up their performance and it is easier not deal with the drama that comes with sexual partners. I do not believe any of them to be particularly religious.


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True, religion+internet can lead to a lot of haterade.

I suppose what I was digging at was what I consider an annoying combination of abstainee coming across as a bit righteous and preachy and no mention of a religious aspect, citing birth control and STD's as bing the root cause, and then when challenged out comes all the religious dogma.

I reject the pregnancy/STD argument as there are ways of dealing with those issues, education, safe sex etc. Approached with care and common sense one can certainly enjoy a healthy sex life without it leading to ruin and bad places.

On the other hand if you just woke up one day and thought 'Hey this thing for me is kind of special and I am hanging out for Mrs Right' then I'd be ok with that, as long as you aren't going to get butthurt if Mrs Right had a few previous trysts with Mr Right-Now in the past. Its when I sniff the religious programming that I get my hackles up, as that stuff tends to be laced with repressive attitudes and negative dogma.

If you are happy though, and are 100% positive this is your choice, and aren't peddling it at other people then I got no issue with that and wish you all the best... I think you are mad and are really missing out, but hey more power to you for at least having the moral fortitude to stand by a principle (even if I dont agree with that principle!).

In truth I hope you find Mrs Right. Soon. :)

Qadira

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Aww... so cute.

"Look, it's an attractive girl who chooses not to have sex. She simply must be mocked! I mean, if she is not mocked, why... I may have to examine my own life and the decisions I have made. But we all know that I made all the right decisions. All the ones with no baggage attached, all the ones the are acceptably normal. Yep. So, certainly it is this girl who is making silly choices. I mean, jeez. She believes in God and everything. So, silly and foolish..."

You know, this is the second time in the past week that I have been reminded of this.

Crabs in a Bucket metaphor:

There's a very powerful metaphor of crabs in a bucket. Supposedly, if you put one crab in a bucket, it'll eventually find a way to leverage itself out of the bucket. But if you put a bunch of crabs in a bucket, none will ever get out because as soon as one crab gets up near the top, the others reach up, grab onto it and pull it back.

I don't think the crabs are really thinking critically about this, but it's a very human metaphor because people often, when they see someone getting ahead or see somebody who's taking a different path, the tendency is to reach out and try to pull that person back. And if they resist, then to punish them in a whole variety of ways.

One of the ironic things is that often the people who pull you back are those who are close to you. I think one of the reasons is because they see your accomplishments and achievements and individuality as a negative reflection on themselves. It's like holding a mirror up to themselves and by comparison they feel like they're suffering. Their way of dealing with it, instead of themselves trying to achieve, is to try to pull you back.

-John Chaffee

Get over it folks. Whatever her reasons, there are no real risks to choosing to stay a virgin (zomg but it feels so awesome! really doesn't cut it. sorry.), while there are innumerable dangers and complications in choosing not to.

Good for her. And good for you, Lloyd Jackson.


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Learn what you are doing and act responsibly, and there are no "innumerable dangers and complications" to not being a virgin.

And as for the crabs, that is exactly the feeling I get when I tell people I am an atheist, and happy with my choice, on the internet. Forget getting away, the religious WILL criticize you for taking a different path.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Orthos wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
Actually, there is scientific evidence to indicate that about 10% of the human population or so is sexuality-wise asexual. They aren't abstaining, they just really aren't interested. The popular term among among those of that orientation is 'ace'.
She's not it. She's saying its hard and she's saving herself for marriage.
That's fair, but I still don't see why it's a bad thing.

My first year college roommate nearly came to blows with me when he noticed that I hadn't made any requests for a private night with the room. (He made several such requests on me) and showed no signs of dating. He apparantly decided that I was gay and made a clear declaration that any sign of such behavior in his presence would be answered by physical violence on my person.

Problem is Homophobes are not satisfied with non-expression of homosexual behavior. They need to be sure that the people they associate with are the same as themselves in sexual activity. It's an important part of their validation of their own identities.


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There are no real risks to abstaining from sex.

There are real risks with placing too high a value on staying virgin until marriage. For example, rejecting otherwise good partners because they didn't abstain. Marrying someone hastily because you want to have sex with them. Marrying someone you're not sexually compatible with.

I know I wouldn't want to make a lifetime commitment to only have sex with someone I'd never had sex with. It's not the most important thing in a relationship, but it is important and it's a good thing to know up front.

Areas of the country where abstinence is more stressed tend to have lower ages of first marriage and higher divorce rates.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Lloyd Jackson wrote:

I generally avoid mentioning religion on the internet as it tends to keep conversations more civil and on topic.

The person I promised was God and it is personal. Though if you don't like that answer, it would also be legitimate to say I promised myself and the corporation, the church, to which I belong. When baptized I made a covenant, a contract, part of which was abstaining from sex until marriage. As I still claim membership in the church, I should fulfill my contract.

I can respect that point of view - just as an aside: to the best of my knowledge the bible only stipulates for girls to be pure for marriage. (In biblical times that being a relevant factor as that meant real money.)


Spanky the Leprechaun wrote:
Orthos wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
Actually, there is scientific evidence to indicate that about 10% of the human population or so is sexuality-wise asexual. They aren't abstaining, they just really aren't interested. The popular term among among those of that orientation is 'ace'.
She's not it. She's saying its hard and she's saving herself for marriage.
That's fair, but I still don't see why it's a bad thing.

I love the conundrum posed by this thread. I can see the cogs turning.

"Hmmm,......those Christies are obviously deviants. Not going around f%+%ing. Worshiping their supernatural being. But,.....how do I call them deviants, when I might offend some asexual dude who, for all I know, might just be some normal atheist? Hmmm....."

Before I post, let me just make it clear that the only reason I am positing in the thread is because of the quoted post.

Spanky, it is trivial to differentiate between asexual people and those who have altered their behaviour because of religion. I suspect the reason no one felt any special urge to come down to 1/2 shooting fish in a barrel, and 1/2 doesn't need sayin'.


Goblins do it in the street!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
thejeff wrote:

There are no real risks to abstaining from sex.

The truth is that there are FEW real risks. My case proves that it's not a non-zero amount.

Shadow Lodge

Zombie Neighbors wrote:
Spanky, it is trivial to differentiate between asexual people and those who have altered their behaviour because of religion.

I think there is a difference. "Why aren't you having sex?- I wouldn't enjoy it" is a factual answer that goes to an individuals objectively existing happiness. "Why aren't you having sex? Religion says I should abstain until marriage" is someone enjoying life less than they otherwise could. Its not a huge deal... tiny really when you consider the amount of suffering in the world, but its there.


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Sissyl wrote:
I see the religious angle to be more or less "If we can stunt their own personal growth while they are young and vulnerable to our repression, they'll be easier to keep in the fold later". Shame is, sadly, a very appetizing emotion to prey upon for so many people.

But that's not the reason. The whole "remain chaste until marriage" thing in Catholicism (which I believe is the one you are refering too, based on the mention of a "huge organization") comes from the belief that sex is such an integral and fundamental component of both marital love and Christian life (as it is the act through which a couple consumates mutual love and gives way for new life to be loved and respected), that sex without compromise is seen as a trivialization of the act.

At the same time, there is also another angle, which relates to lust, rather than pre-marital sex itself, in which Catholic teachings warn against the dangers of excessive carnal pleasure, just as it warns against the excess of pride, violence, or sloth. In essence, as a priest friend of mine once put it [paraphrasing] "It is all about showing ourselves we can and want to control our innate animal urges. They are there and are integral to our lives -we wouldn't be able to survive without them-, but if left unchecked they can easily rob us of our humanity".

The problem is usually in the way said respect and appreciation for marital sex is expressed; I'm a pretty devout Catholic, but I have stated my complaints to my local bishop in at least two occasions when I felt a particular priest was missuing the Catholic teachings regarding sex. In general, though, I've always been given a pretty clear picture of what the Church thinks sex is all about and why we Catholics would be good to give it respect, and sexual education in my -Catholic- school was quite thorough and valuable.

So no, it is not about control of the masses or repression. I understand that it may seem absurd or dumb to some for someone to put so much value into something that you might as well equale with eating or taking a dump, but to some of us sex is about a lot more than that. We value what it represents and put a huge deal of importance on its ultimate purpose.

BigNorseWolf wrote:

I think there is a difference. "Why aren't you having sex?- I wouldn't enjoy it" is a factual answer that goes to an individuals objectively existing happiness. "Why aren't you having sex? Religion says I should abstain until marriage" is someone enjoying life less than they otherwise could. Its not a huge deal... tiny really when you consider the amount of suffering in the world, but its there.

But you are starting from the assumption that abstaining from sex until marriage because we believe it is worthwhile is making us enjoy life less. That would be ignoring the spiritual and, if you will, self-fulfillment joy involved.

Regardless of what 30 Rock says, Catholicism is not about feeling crushed by guilt all day long; we do find a lot of joy in faith and in acting in coherence with that faith.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Zombie Neighbors wrote:
Spanky, it is trivial to differentiate between asexual people and those who have altered their behaviour because of religion.

I think there is a difference. "Why aren't you having sex?- I wouldn't enjoy it" is a factual answer that goes to an individuals objectively existing happiness. "Why aren't you having sex? Religion says I should abstain until marriage" is someone enjoying life less than they otherwise could. Its not a huge deal... tiny really when you consider the amount of suffering in the world, but its there.

My point, basically, though I made it very poorly.

I am just amazed that Spanky actually thinks anyones 'cogs are turning' over that. I mean, one is a socially imposed behavioural change, while the other is just the way some people are. . No one here is going to have trouble ripping religion because they fear tarring the asexuals with the brush of religion.

It just doesn't make any sense as a complaint.

Andoran

If she was a 29 year old virgin in the past, she be a tragic old maid.

Romeo and Juliet was about a boy who couldn't grow a beard and a 13 year old girl.

This love of the past obsession is annoying. Teen pregnancy was higher in the 1950's than it is now. Look it up.

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