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Tiefling playable in PFS??


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

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**** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

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wait a sec...

Todd Morgan wrote:
Dhampirs and Tieflings have a powerful SLA.
Bestiary 3 wrote:

Spell-Like Ability: A dhampir can use detect undead three times per day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this

ability equals the dhampir’s class level.

"Behold my awesome spell like ability! That corpse creeping towards us is undead!"

"Um, yeah, the smell gave it away."

And if your argument is that the "Boon" races are too powerful, then surely nobody should have them.

After all, detect undead 3/day must be absolutely game breaking *snort*

Dark Archive ***** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

I never said it was game breaking, but having an SLA is more powerful than anything core races get. My argument is that boon races are too powerful to be opened up. Keeping them limited to boons assists event coordinators with attendance, it keeps PFS from becoming a menagerie of races like another recent campaign I will not mention and it rewards players. Opening up races just takes one more perk that event organizers can use to draw in the player base to make their events successful.

Dark Archive ***** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Lass wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
J-Bone wrote:


Gratz to you Nolen. But your life isnt mine and mine isnt yours. I dont have the flexibility of an art student, nor do my buddies stationed overseas in the military. Enjoy your boons though.
You and your buddies can enjoy them too if you organize an event.
If it were that easy we would all have 4 stars

Organizing a 15 table PFS event doesn't require any number of stars. Mark Garringer didn't even have one star and he was the VC for Indianapolis.

**

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Todd Morgan wrote:
Lass wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
J-Bone wrote:


Gratz to you Nolen. But your life isnt mine and mine isnt yours. I dont have the flexibility of an art student, nor do my buddies stationed overseas in the military. Enjoy your boons though.
You and your buddies can enjoy them too if you organize an event.
If it were that easy we would all have 4 stars
Organizing a 15 table PFS event doesn't require any number of stars. Mark Garringer didn't even have one star and he was the VC for Indianapolis.

How wonderful for him. Sadly there simply are not enough people where I live to organise 15 tables. I have trouble getting one. Maybe someday I too can be as grand as Mark Garringer. Enjoy your boons.

Dark Archive ***** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

nosig wrote:
More good stuff from nosig

But see, even in your example you are using a boon to make a core race more powerful than other core race, but only slightly. Sure an elf +boon is better than dwarf -boon where that one skill is concerned. My argument is that the races on the racial boons are more powerful than core races, which I have shown through the Aasimar example (which needs no boons to shine, literally). When the ARG is fully released, build both an Aasimar and an Elf, and see the difference in Build Points.

Out of all the racial boons, I think the Tengu most resembles the power of a core race, and so I would definitely agree to this race being opened up, just seeing how prevalent they are in Tian Xia.

Dark Archive ***** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Lass wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
Lass wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
J-Bone wrote:


Gratz to you Nolen. But your life isnt mine and mine isnt yours. I dont have the flexibility of an art student, nor do my buddies stationed overseas in the military. Enjoy your boons though.
You and your buddies can enjoy them too if you organize an event.
If it were that easy we would all have 4 stars
Organizing a 15 table PFS event doesn't require any number of stars. Mark Garringer didn't even have one star and he was the VC for Indianapolis.
How wonderful for him. Sadly there simply are not enough people where I live to organise 15 tables. I have trouble getting one. Maybe someday I too can be as grand as Mark Garringer. Enjoy your boons.

I think I shall, even with your post dripping of sarcasm :P

I find it hard to believe that there aren't 11 other people where you are at needed to make an event of that size.

**

Todd Morgan wrote:

I think I shall, even with your post dripping of sarcasm :P

I find it hard to believe that there aren't 11 other people where you are at needed to make an event of that size.

Perhaps you simply dont wish to believe that there are places with low populations yet have a small core of enthusiastic players who would really enjoy the benefit of playing with a second tier race. Truly it does not seem so hard for me to imagine... then again I dont have to imagine it, its a reality for me.

Dark Archive ***** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

I think that there are places where the gaming population is small because there hasn't been effort made to grow it up. Locally, we have grown from barely one table of PFS to 4+ on a regular basis, so I know it is possible to go from a small group to a medium sized one. If you would like to take on the task of growing your group, I would be more than happy to consult with you :)


Lass wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
Lass wrote:
Todd Morgan wrote:
J-Bone wrote:


Gratz to you Nolen. But your life isnt mine and mine isnt yours. I dont have the flexibility of an art student, nor do my buddies stationed overseas in the military. Enjoy your boons though.
You and your buddies can enjoy them too if you organize an event.
If it were that easy we would all have 4 stars
Organizing a 15 table PFS event doesn't require any number of stars. Mark Garringer didn't even have one star and he was the VC for Indianapolis.
How wonderful for him. Sadly there simply are not enough people where I live to organise 15 tables. I have trouble getting one. Maybe someday I too can be as grand as Mark Garringer. Enjoy your boons.

Well said and LOL

Dark Archive ***** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Briit, if you want some consultation on growing yours, Lass' and J-Bones region, I'm at your disposal :)

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

This topic has started a negative downward slope. Keep it positive and constructive or it gets locked.

Silver Crusade **

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber

Sorry I'm with Todd here. Yes some people have jobs and live places that perhaps it is difficult to get to or organise a con. That is not the case however for the majority of people. Cons are very important to organised play and the boons reflect this.

I love my Tengu character and I love the privilege of playing him. If Tengu became openly available then the character would lose his specialness. He would become mundane. Worse we would be overrun by too many bizarre and unusual races and the core races would fade into the background. PFS would become a freakshow.

PFS didn't have to put boons out there, it was a nice extra for players at conventions. I have seen young kids at conventions over the moon that they got to play a rare race. Now something that was a way of Paizo giving back to fans has been attacked by some people.

Please don't listen to them Paizo people. Rare races should be special. Keep it as it is.


Michael Brock wrote:
This topic has started a negative downward slope. Keep it positive and constructive or it gets locked.

I do not wish to be in flame war. I thought it was funny and agree that races should be open. Only my opinion. I don't want to be banned.

Silver Crusade **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting Subscriber
Briit wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
This topic has started a negative downward slope. Keep it positive and constructive or it gets locked.
I do not wish to be in flame war. I thought it was funny and agree that races should be open. Only my opinion. I don't want to be banned.

I think it would take far more than that to get banned Briit. I'm sure Mike is cool about it. It's all good.

Shadow Lodge *** Dedicated Voter 2014

Todd Morgan wrote:
I never said it was game breaking, but having an SLA is more powerful than anything core races get.

Why does everyone forget the poor Gnomes?

Gnomes with a Charisma of 11 or higher also gain the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation, and speak with animals. The caster level for these effects is equal to the gnome's level. The DC for these spells is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the gnome's Charisma modifier.

I'd take ANY of those over detect undead, much less the entire lot.

Scarab Sages **

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Why does everyone forget the poor Gnomes?

Oh, I remember gnomes alright...they fit great in a birdcage on my hip! They make for great friends, and they cast spells so you don't have to! Alexander Damocles, the Holy Librarian of Abadar, and Sarai, Pathfinder team extraordinaire!


i have played an Aasimaar multiple times, and thier boons are largely irrelevant.

lets compare them to dwarves.

Racial modifiers, Aasimaar may have no penalties and +2 to 2 stats, but those 2 stats don't really have much synergy unless you build very niche builds. like a channel focused cleric. dwarven mods, work for a larger variety of races, druids, fighters, inquisitors, and so on. dwarves win out.

Skill bonuses, Aasimaar get +2 to perception and diplomacy. 2 useful skills, dwarves get +2 to perception as well, and get +2 to any check involving metal and stone. roughly equal

Darkvision, both races get it

Proficiencies, the only way an Aasimaar is gaining every martial weapon is to either, take levels in a class that grants them, or waste a level gaining an outsider hit dice. dwarves might not have the best weapons there, but it's better than nothing.

Daylight, once per day, i can dispel a 2nd level darkness spell, not that great. i would rather have defensive training, giants are far more common than darkness spammers in your typical campaign.

Energy resistance, sorry, i would rather have the dwarf's +2 to 80% of every saving throw i roll.

Speed. aasimaar is faster if they wear light armor, but the dwarf has so many nice perks against common creature types that it compensates.

a dwarf is generally better than an aasimaar.

The Exchange ****

And Spell Resistance - dwarves get SR. (true they have to give up hearty for it, but hay, SR is kewl!)

and a dwarf travel cleric in heavy (or medium) armor is faster than an Aasimar travel cleric when they cast thier fly spells. LOL! (My wife runs a Aasimar cleric of Cayden, I run a Dwarf cleric of Cayden... and we notice I always move faster than her - unless she takes her armor off.)

but we are still back to the point I was making earlier... this is all just player opinion. and different people have different opinions. Which is why I gave away my Tengu boon. I don't want to play a bird guy - but I know someone who does...

Grand Lodge *****

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber

Boons are restricted. There never will be a fair way to distribute them and make them available to everyone.

You can therefore look at it from two different angles:

a) Resent that someone else got lucky or is priviledged and has something cool.
b) Be happy that someone else got lucky or is priviledged and has something cool.

Both are valid points of view. It is a glass half full or half empty question. Posters should not try to educate others that only one view is the right one - this applies for both opinions.

But maybe a story tells more as arguments.

Last year October my son (11) got a Tengu boon as a convention. For him this was a very big deal. He was over the moon and even took it in to school next Monday. He decided to make a Tengu ninja with the boon.
The story doesn't end here. It happened by chance that two other players at the convention had also Tengu boons - a Samurai (cavalier?) and also a ninja. They got their boon while on Honeymoon to the US and play a Tengu couple when at the same table.
They spontaneously adopted my son in game into their roost. Since then we met them again at two other conventions - Dragonmeet and Conception. I managed to ensure that in both cases the game schedule was organized to allow them to play a scenario together at the table.
This boon surely has resulted in a few members of the society getting together more closely. When we go to a convention then our whole family but especially my son looks out for the other Tengu players.
It has given us an additional dimension and immersion into the Society. And it made a young player very, very happy.

Not every story around a boon will be as positive as the above - but it would be a shame these stories wouldn't be possible because for reasons of equality that boons can't be offered.

Edit: I think we need to organize a Tengu table at PaizoCon UK. If there are additional Tengus out there in the UK who go to PaizoCon - please let me know. And I hope Beaks parents are around - the young Tengu would love to meet his adopted parents again.

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber
Lass wrote:


Perhaps you simply dont wish to believe that there are places with low populations yet have a small core of enthusiastic players who would really enjoy the benefit of playing with a second tier race. Truly it does not seem so hard for me to imagine... then again I dont have to imagine it, its a reality for me.

These places exist. But often there also exist ways to get boons even to the most remote places. There aren't many players in my area.

How many players are there in your area? You have heard here that some players are willing to hand on boons. Selling them on E-Bay is heavily frowned upon. But maybe we find one or two people here who are willing to part with a boon.

Then you could organize even a tiny event (2-3 tables) and hand them out as a special for your area. Let your players know ahead of time - but let them also know not everyone will be able to get one and how you want to distribute them.

I currently don't have any race boons left as I finally used my own Beginner Bash one and tend to refrain from taking them and rather have others to take them. But if I become eligible to one I might reserve it for a cause like this.

We are a community - I'm sure we will find ways to get this done if it is wanted.

* Dedicated Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

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So, I tried to stay away from this thread, and clearly I have failed...
I can't help but notice that all the people against having another way to earn racial boons talk about their con attendance and their tengu/tiefling/other special race characters.

I think that it comes down to a question about what the purpose of PFS is to Paizo. Obviously the purpose of the campaign is to advertise for the larger product line, but I'm not sure if the intention is to encourage large, splashy events, or to promote people evangelizing the hobby and PF in a broader way.

The problem is that it is too difficult to have an event online which is large and cohesive enough to garner the rewards reserved for cons. In any case it would likely not meet the implied criteria of visibility for support. Anyone have any ideas? Too bad there is no VC of the internet.

Todd Morgan wrote:
I think that there are places where the gaming population is small because there hasn't been effort made to grow it up. Locally, we have grown from barely one table of PFS to 4+ on a regular basis, so I know it is possible to go from a small group to a medium sized one. If you would like to take on the task of growing your group, I would be more than happy to consult with you :)

I agree with Lass that you are missing the point, and I am likely in the same boat as she is PFS-wise. Right now I live in rural China, so online is obviously my only way to play. In a year or two I might move to Hong Kong or Singapore, where there is a chance of doing what you suggest, but for now I am definitely marginalized from the experiences and rewards of playing at cons, in a place with actual PFS support, or even in person, which is fine, since I understand that the point of OP is essentially advertising.

**** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

Todd Morgan wrote:
I never said it was game breaking, but having an SLA is more powerful than anything core races get. My argument is that boon races are too powerful to be opened up. Keeping them limited to boons assists event coordinators with attendance, it keeps PFS from becoming a menagerie of races like another recent campaign I will not mention and it rewards players. Opening up races just takes one more perk that event organizers can use to draw in the player base to make their events successful.

You mena Gnomes aren't a core race? Or the elf racial traits in the APG aren't allowed?

Crap, when did we start playing 4e?

Oh, and apparently there's a table you need to stomp on if you don't like 'menageries'. There's three tengu at the table, that must be stopped. They're playing bad/wrong/unfun.

So we already have races with SLA, we already have the 'menagerie tables' you seem to despise.

There have been a number of suggestions given on how to open up the ARG (and blood of X books) to everyone equally. From just opening up the material to everyone*, to opening up the current 'boon' races and making the other races boons, to be later trickled down to allowing owners of the ARG to have one active character of a non-core race. (using an honour system, who'd have thunk it?)

It's not about the imagined 'power' of the races. If the races are truly "more powerful" then the method of handing boons out just skewes the system further in an arms race, as the optimizers look for the boons to make their character more 'uber' and the writers feel they have to write their scenarios to 'handle' such table breaking characters.

It's about having fun. If I want to have an Osiron sorcerer who is an Aasimar, so I can 'fluff' golden skin and a startling resemblance to Patricia Velasquez Why shouldn't I? (assuming I own the ARG). If my nephew reads any of David Gross' books and wants to play a Tiefling because of Radovan, why shouldnt' he?

Heck I have three characters (all low level), so I won't be getting an Aasimar, a Tiefling or anything else anytime soon (assuming I don't get one of them killed.) But I want the potential.

* Dedicated Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Matthew Morris wrote:


There have been a number of suggestions given on how to open up the ARG (and blood of X books) to everyone equally. From just opening up the material to everyone, to opening up the current 'boon' races and making the other races boons, to be later trickled down to allowing owners of the ARG to have one active character of a non-core race. (using an honour system, who'd have thunk it?)

There still should be some entry barrier to special races other than just buying the book.

The purpose of the boons is to incentivise people to advertise for PFRPG by going to cons and playing where lots of people can see you. If race boons could also be linked to, say, DM stars, it would give a more egalitarian distribution while still keeping the goal of keeping boons for those who help to build the campaign and PFRPG.

Matthew Morris wrote:
It's about having fun. If I want to have an Osiron sorcerer who is an Aasimar, so I can 'fluff' golden skin and a startling resemblance to Patricia Velasquez Why shouldn't I?

Why do you need to be an Aasimar to do this? You can just say that your sorcerer (whether celestial blooded or not) has golden skin and so on and so forth. People are way too eager to find reasons to interfere with other people's fluff in PFS for some reason.

**** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

Saint Caleth wrote:

I agree with Lass that you are missing the point, and I am likely in the same boat as she is PFS-wise. Right now I live in rural China, so online is obviously my only way to play. In a year or two I might move to Hong Kong or Singapore, where there is a chance of doing what you suggest, but for now I am definitely marginalized from the experiences and rewards of playing at cons, in a place with actual PFS support, or even in person, which is fine, since I understand that the point of OP is essentially advertising.

Thank you for putting this better than I can. Reading the replies to 'I live in a small area' can easily come across in the contextless internet as "well, sucks to be you, doesn't it?" Intended or not, that can be inferred.

Heck, I've been teaching my godkids Battletech (though they have the Pathfinder beginner's box) because I can't get them to Columbus along with my niece and nephew (none of them drive yet, or have part time jobs) At least with Battletech they can play 'giant stompy robots' with each other and with their dad (who played Battletech with me at their age) Even if they started a group in SE Ohio, there's still the issue of lack of support.

**** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

Saint Caleth wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:


There have been a number of suggestions given on how to open up the ARG (and blood of X books) to everyone equally. From just opening up the material to everyone*, to opening up the current 'boon' races and making the other races boons, to be later trickled down to allowing owners of the ARG to have one active character of a non-core race. (using an honour system, who'd have thunk it?)

There still should be some entry barrier to special races other than just buying the book.

The purpose of the boons is to incentivise people to advertise for PFRPG by going to cons and playing where lots of people can see you. If race boons could also be linked to, say, DM stars, it would give a more egalitarian distribution while still keeping the goal of keeping boons for those who help to build the campaign and PFRPG.

I forgot about the "GM Stars" suggestion, thank you.

Just curious why you think there should be a barrier for races that is different than classes or feats or spells or equipment?

* Dedicated Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Matthew Morris wrote:
Just curious why you think there should be a barrier for races that is different than classes or feats or spells or equipment?

Mainly because as of now, the race boons basically exist as a reward for people who help PFS and PFRPG to grow. Currently this idea exists only as rewarding those who attend or organize large, (presumably) highly visible events which involve PFRPG being played.

The DM star suggestion extends this recognition to others who help to grow and strengthen PFPRG by DMing. I think that by keeping close to the presumptive purpose of having the boons there is a better chance of Mike and Mark being willing to change the way things work.

Also anything that makes people want to DM is good, who knows, they might find that they are really good at/enjoy it.

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

Actually, there is a better chance of us doing anything that has been suggested above when other options are provided that we can use to draw people to conventions, that is at least as popular, if not more so, as the race boons. We asked for that before and still haven't received a good answer.

**** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

Saint Caleth wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
Just curious why you think there should be a barrier for races that is different than classes or feats or spells or equipment?

Mainly because as of now, the race boons basically exist as a reward for people who help PFS and PFRPG to grow. Currently this idea exists only as rewarding those who attend or organize large, (presumably) highly visible events which involve PFRPG being played.

The DM star suggestion extends this recognition to others who help to grow and strengthen PFPRG by DMing. I think that by keeping close to the presumptive purpose of having the boons there is a better chance of Mike and Mark being willing to change the way things work.

Also anything that makes people want to DM is good, who knows, they might find that they are really good at/enjoy it.

I understand. Then again, I enjoy GMing, anything that gives me a chance to do funny voices and bad acting. :-)

And I understand how things exist *now*. Replacement boons (in the form of other races) have been suggested. Heck, even continuing the boons alongside opening up would work if it was limited to a 1 exotic per book rule (again, working the honour system. Why assume eveyone is going to cheat?). Little Billy gets a boon letting him play a tiefling. Now little Billy will want the ARG, and Book of Fiends. He gets the ARG and wants to use his one 'honour system' to play an aasimar. So now he gets Blood of Angels...

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Michael Brock wrote:
Actually, there is a better chance of us doing anything that has been suggested above when other options are provided that we can use to draw people to conventions, that is at least as popular, if not more so, as the race boons. We asked for that before and still haven't received a good answer.

• Free faction shirts (from a shirt cannon, even)

• Boon with a permanent +1 to an ability score (perhaps pre-set on the boon, to allow six different such boons)
• Boon that grants a handful of extra HP or skill ranks
• Boon that grants a single free magic item (like maybe one boon for a scroll of dispel magic at a high CL, another for a single bead from a necklace of fireballs, etc)
• Boon that allows a free raise dead
• Boon that allows a one-time bonus to a d20 roll equal to the number of source books you have with you at the time

EDIT:
• Boon that gives a PC permanent access to a minor SLA

Liberty's Edge ****

Michael Brock wrote:
Actually, there is a better chance of us doing anything that has been suggested above when other options are provided that we can use to draw people to conventions, that is at least as popular, if not more so, as the race boons. We asked for that before and still haven't received a good answer.

Boons?? Is this the reason why people go to conventions to play PFS? Here I thought it was because people enjoyed the game.

On the point of options and compromise seemingly requested, there have been plenty offered. I personally favor opening up some races as boons while making available those that have already been offered as boons. Seems like a reasonable compromise.

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

Jiggy wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Actually, there is a better chance of us doing anything that has been suggested above when other options are provided that we can use to draw people to conventions, that is at least as popular, if not more so, as the race boons. We asked for that before and still haven't received a good answer.

• Free faction shirts (from a shirt cannon, even)

• Boon with a permanent +1 to an ability score (perhaps pre-set on the boon, to allow six different such boons)
• Boon that grants a handful of extra HP or skill ranks
• Boon that grants a single free magic item (like maybe one boon for a scroll of dispel magic at a high CL, another for a single bead from a necklace of fireballs, etc)
• Boon that allows a free raise dead
• Boon that allows a one-time bonus to a d20 roll equal to the number of source books you have with you at the time

EDIT:
• Boon that gives a PC permanent access to a minor SLA

Would people trade the race boon they currently have for any of the above?

* Dedicated Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

If I had a race boon, I would seriously consider trading it for a +1 ability score or the SLA, depending on what it was, so yes.

Some other things I might trade a race boon for:
Allowing a character the ability to purchase scrolls at higher than minimum caster level.
A certain number of free spells added to a spellbook or familiar.
Spells/Items from old 3.5 products which have not been updated to PF, and thus are not PFS legal ATM.

Liberty's Edge ****

Jiggy makes some strong suggestions. Who wouldnt want a +1 to a stat.

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

Saint Caleth wrote:
If I had a race boon, I would seriously consider trading it for a +1 ability score or the SLA, depending on what it was, so yes.

That's two and I currently am sending out 6 different race boons.

**** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

Michael Brock wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Actually, there is a better chance of us doing anything that has been suggested above when other options are provided that we can use to draw people to conventions, that is at least as popular, if not more so, as the race boons. We asked for that before and still haven't received a good answer.

• Free faction shirts (from a shirt cannon, even)

• Boon with a permanent +1 to an ability score (perhaps pre-set on the boon, to allow six different such boons)
• Boon that grants a handful of extra HP or skill ranks
• Boon that grants a single free magic item (like maybe one boon for a scroll of dispel magic at a high CL, another for a single bead from a necklace of fireballs, etc)
• Boon that allows a free raise dead
• Boon that allows a one-time bonus to a d20 roll equal to the number of source books you have with you at the time

EDIT:
• Boon that gives a PC permanent access to a minor SLA

Would people trade the race boon they currently have for any of the above?

Isn't the free raise dead already a boon? Are you saying some of the current boons suck? ;-)

Ok, more seriously, I'd take the +1, or the free faction shirt (rerolls are my friend)

The sourcebook one is funny, would PDFs count? I could use a +20 on my roll :P

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

Faction shirts cost money where boons do not. So, now you are adding an extra element we currently don't have to worry about with boons.

**** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8 , Star Voter 2013

Well it's primarily because the faciton shirts don't fit, and I can't find Donna's.

More seriously, a boon that allowed the character to use a reroll w.o a faction shirt (or in addition to a faction shirt) would be a good boon.

Just curious, How do you define a 'good answer'? Since suggestions have been made before.

Oh, and if you aren't in Columbus yet, don't worry, it's The Memorial Tournament, so Chief Leatherlips has been kind enough to provide Seattle like weather for you.

The Exchange ****

a boon to run an NPC class! yeah! (ok, so I'm a little touched in the head. I just wanna be able to run an Expert)

I would not trade my race boon for one of the boons mentioned above... but that may be because it is currently tied to a PC that I like.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Michael Brock wrote:
Saint Caleth wrote:
If I had a race boon, I would seriously consider trading it for a +1 ability score or the SLA, depending on what it was, so yes.
That's two and I currently am sending out 6 different race boons.

Whaddya know? There are six ability scores! ;) Have a STR +1 boon, a DEX +1 boon, a CON +1 boon, etc.

The free Raise would be popular too, I imagine. I know I envy it.

How about this one, too:
"Choose one weapon of at least masterwork quality owned by the character receiving this boon. That weapon gains a +1 magic enhancement bonus, in addition to whatever other enchantments it may possess. For instance, a masterwork longsword becomes a +1 longsword, and a +1 flaming longsword becomes a +2 flaming longsword."

Or a boon that simply gives you a free scroll/potion/wand at higher than minimum caster level, or with a metamagic feat applied, or both. Those are very popular on chronicles, and (depending on items provided) could be fantastic boons. Maybe a CL9 wand of lightning bolt with 2 charges. Or a scroll of empowered fireball.

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

I've been in Columbus since Tuesday. I'm happy with this weather much more than the 90s they had a week ago. Sucks to be a pro golfer today.

A good answer or boon is one that may help a player decide to go to a con he would otherwise not attend. The racial boons have done this. Players weren't planning to go to a con, but learned there was a chance to obtain a unique race, so changed their plans and traveled to the convention.

I've seen two suggestions that would possibly make a player decide last minute to attend a con (+1 to stat and SLA).

Realistically, a few more HPs or skill points, a free reroll, a single free magic item of 750 gp or less, and a one time boon that is crossed off when used is not better than a unique race.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Oh, another SLA idea: once-per-day quickened true strike would be super-popular, I imagine. ;)

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

Jiggy wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Saint Caleth wrote:
If I had a race boon, I would seriously consider trading it for a +1 ability score or the SLA, depending on what it was, so yes.
That's two and I currently am sending out 6 different race boons.

Whaddya know? There are six ability scores! ;) Have a STR +1 boon, a DEX +1 boon, a CON +1 boon, etc.

And I already hear the complaining when a fighter gets an intelligence boon.

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

Jiggy wrote:
Oh, another SLA idea: once-per-day quickened true strike would be super-popular, I imagine. ;)

So a once a day ability is more popular than playing a unique race?

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

Jiggy wrote:


Or a boon that simply gives you a free scroll/potion/wand at higher than minimum caster level, or with a metamagic feat applied, or both. Those are very popular on chronicles, and (depending on items provided) could be fantastic boons. Maybe a CL9 wand of lightning bolt with 2 charges. Or a scroll of empowered fireball.

So a one use magic item or two charge magic item is better and more popular than a unique race for 12 levels and higher?

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Michael Brock wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Oh, another SLA idea: once-per-day quickened true strike would be super-popular, I imagine. ;)
So a once a day ability is more popular than playing a unique race?

It might be if it's quickened true strike. But hey, if you want to make it 2/day or more, I won't stop you. ;)

* Dedicated Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Michael Brock wrote:
I already he the complaining when a fighter gets an intelligence boon.

I bet it will even be the same people who complain that it is too hard for fighters to get the 13 INT required to take Combat Expertise and the improve maneuver feats. :)

I might be a bad example, since I would attend any convention with PFS that I could feasibly reach, but the ability to buy higher than minimum CL scrolls would be a powerful draw I think.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Michael Brock wrote:
Jiggy wrote:


Or a boon that simply gives you a free scroll/potion/wand at higher than minimum caster level, or with a metamagic feat applied, or both. Those are very popular on chronicles, and (depending on items provided) could be fantastic boons. Maybe a CL9 wand of lightning bolt with 2 charges. Or a scroll of empowered fireball.

So a one use magic item or two charge magic item is better and more popular than a unique race for 12 levels and higher?

The brainstorming has to start somewhere. Don't worry, I'll satisfy you yet!

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Marathon Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Michael Brock wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Saint Caleth wrote:
If I had a race boon, I would seriously consider trading it for a +1 ability score or the SLA, depending on what it was, so yes.
That's two and I currently am sending out 6 different race boons.

Whaddya know? There are six ability scores! ;) Have a STR +1 boon, a DEX +1 boon, a CON +1 boon, etc.

And I already hear the complaining when a fighter gets an intelligence boon.

Revised idea:

One boon for +1 CON.
One boon for +1 to a physical stat of your choice.
One boon for +1 to a mental stat of your choice.
One boon for +1 to any stat of choice.

They would be at different rarities at any given event, of course.

That covers four of your six boons, and I bet any of them would be coveted.

X/day quickened true strike could be #5.

Perhaps another option would be a boon for a certain (good) feat sans prereqs?

Boon: Archery Training - Your PC gets Precise Shot or Rapid Shot (your choice) and need not meet the prereqs.

Boon: Extra Quickness - Your PC gains +2 initiative, +1 Reflex, and a +1 dodge bonus to AC.

Boon: Metamagic - Your PC gains a metamagic feat of your choice.

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

Jiggy wrote:


The brainstorming has to start somewhere. Don't worry, I'll satisfy you yet!

Oh good. I love challenges. Good luck, sir ;-)

You know how coveted and how much of a draw the race boons are. Please find me some options that could replace them and be just as popular.

Oh, and I also need an answer to give people who complain because they can't get to a con to get a +1 to a stat or an SLA or higher level CR purchase power boon, much like what I am hearing here about people who can't get to a con to get a racial boon. Afterall, the boons you are going to list for me are going to be as good, or better, than the race boons, which means the cries of unfairness will be even louder.

*****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I really liked the boon that Kyle Pratt had for his cleric. I think it was either from PaizoCon 2009? He was going around trying to convert NPCs to his faith. Getting a boon like that at a convention would be sweet. Some how wording it so it could only be tried at "Paizo Supported" conventions would get me to at least go for a slot.

That said, I'm not sure exactly what he got for completing all of that, but maybe we could do something similar for the factions:

  • Each faction has it's own set of X unique chronicles.
  • The chronicle is two-fold: It requires the PC to do something in a scenario that aligns with the goals of their faction. It provides either its own small boon (+1 to a certain skill perhaps) and/or it provides a piece to a much larger boon that aligns with the faction growing in influence (perhaps a permanent PP or Fame boost). The larger boon is only gained after X-Y successful unique chronicles.

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