paizo.com Recent Posts in Why fighters suckpaizo.com Recent Posts in Why fighters suck2013-05-21T00:46:24Z2013-05-21T00:46:24ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckChris Lambertzhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7802012-06-08T19:01:40Z2012-06-08T19:01:40Z<p><span class=messageboard-ooc>Removed a bunch of posts. We warned you about being personally abusive to other posters. Whatever conclusion you wanted to come to clearly has come by in the last 5 pages. We're done here. Thread locked.</span></p>Removed a bunch of posts. We warned you about being personally abusive to other posters. Whatever conclusion you wanted to come to clearly has come by in the last 5 pages. We're done here. Thread locked.Chris Lambertz2012-06-08T19:01:40ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckciretosehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7792012-06-08T19:01:11Z2012-06-08T19:01:11Z<p>While we are looking at the third level builds, my fighter compared to the ranger has:</p>
<p>+ Better ability to hit (+7 to +9 is what it says, but Ashiel should actually be +8 with her masterwork warhammer)</p>
<p>+ +10 to movement</p>
<p>+ Significantly more melee damage</p>
<p>+ More hit points</p>
<p>+ Ability to hit anything with magic damage resistance (but this is more item selection)</p>
<p>- Lower initiative (+4 to +8)</p>
<p>- Lower perception. (+2 to +7)</p>
<p>- Less ranged damage (Ashiel picked up a composite this level)</p>
<p>- Can't sleep in armor</p>
<p>- Lower will save</p>
<p>I leave it to the judges to see what they value more.</p>While we are looking at the third level builds, my fighter compared to the ranger has:
+ Better ability to hit (+7 to +9 is what it says, but Ashiel should actually be +8 with her masterwork warhammer)
+ +10 to movement
+ Significantly more melee damage
+ More hit points
+ Ability to hit anything with magic damage resistance (but this is more item selection)
- Lower initiative (+4 to +8)
- Lower perception. (+2 to +7)
- Less ranged damage (Ashiel picked up a composite this level)
-...ciretose2012-06-08T19:01:11ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckBigNorseWolfhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7782012-06-08T18:46:59Z2012-06-08T18:46:59Z<p>Bob, </p>
<p>19 hit points on a third level front line fighter? A boss will take him out in a good hit, never mind a crit.</p>Bob,
19 hit points on a third level front line fighter? A boss will take him out in a good hit, never mind a crit.BigNorseWolf2012-06-08T18:46:59ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckciretosehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7772012-06-08T18:46:19Z2012-06-08T18:46:19Z<p>Looked at Bob's half orc and I share the reflex save concern someone mentioned earlier. He also starts out a little vulnerable for my personal tastes. But I like all of the concepts.</p>Looked at Bob's half orc and I share the reflex save concern someone mentioned earlier. He also starts out a little vulnerable for my personal tastes. But I like all of the concepts.ciretose2012-06-08T18:46:19ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckGuy Kilmorehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7762012-06-08T18:43:37Z2012-06-08T18:05:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bob_Loblaw wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Guy Kilmore wrote:</div><blockquote> I agree. (As the lurker and the guy just reading this stuff. I am finding the thought experiment interesting. I am learning stuff that will make me a better GM and I have enough information to make decisions based upon the playstyle of my group.) </blockquote><p>I hope you and others are seeing interesting ways to build and use fighters. Rangers and paladins are relatively easy to build because their abilities are mostly preset and the class design guides the user through the process. Fighters don't have that so it takes a bit more understanding of how the feats interact with each other and you really do have to know where you want to go with the build.
<p>I treat my characters a lot like authors treat their characters: I let the character talk to me and tell me what he wants to do next. Just because a particular feat is mechanically better than another does not mean I'm going to take it. I look at how the feats fit the concept. I won't take a useless feat just to prove that I can get by with fewer feats, that would be silly (even if I can do it, I don't think it will show of value). </blockquote><p>I tend to build my PCs and NPCs the same way. I tend to make my recommendations to the PCs I GM for in a similar way. It is nice to see traits and feats people use to flesh certain concepts, because there are alot of feats and combinations. It is nice to see people who are more adept at accessing those rules and combinations, put stuff together. It increases my breadth of experience.
<p>I say this for builds that many people have posted and I find value in what is going up. It is also nice to see builds for both Ashiel and Ciretose, as I have played and GMed both styles of campaigns.</p>
<p>While I find the discussion of different playstyles in reference to build somewhat illuminating. (It explains why a build is going in a certain direction and how the playstyle effects the expression of the concept.) I think some of it has gone on longer than it needs to.</p>Bob_Loblaw wrote:Guy Kilmore wrote: I agree. (As the lurker and the guy just reading this stuff. I am finding the thought experiment interesting. I am learning stuff that will make me a better GM and I have enough information to make decisions based upon the playstyle of my group.)
I hope you and others are seeing interesting ways to build and use fighters. Rangers and paladins are relatively easy to build because their abilities are mostly preset and the class design guides the user through...Guy Kilmore2012-06-08T18:05:57ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckLemmyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7752012-06-08T17:38:06Z2012-06-08T17:38:06Z<p>I like Spruce's versatility, he has a good mix of skills.</p>
<p>but his relatively low HP and poor Reflex saves are worrisome, specially considering he engages in melee with 2 weapons and no shield. If he's attacking from distance, he risks being the target of a Fireball, which would put him in a bad spot, considering poor reflexes saves (although these are alleviated by his Dex and gear) and lower than average HP.</p>
<p>His impressive stealth modifier allows him to scout pretty well and use hit-and-run tactics, but in doing so, he sacrifices his extra attacks (at least 'til high levels, when the archetype's class features allow him to overcome this limitation, the ful attack after moving is particullary good for TWFers).</p>
<p>TWFing and staying versatile is doable, but costs a lot of feats,and attributes.</p>
<p>Elven immunites are wonderful for a class with low Will save. Silent hunter is obviously much more useful than elven magic (for fighters).</p>
<p>It's a very flavorful build and quite efficient, but he seems to be trying his hardest just to keep up with an equal level ranger.
<br />
However, wilderness stuff is the ranger's speciality, so that is doesn't say much about the class being weaker.</p>
<p>It does show that fighter can do wilderness and stealth-related stuff too and that poor Con does not completely cripple the class, but it sure takes its toll (even more so on lower levels, where 3 or 4 HP can make a huge difference).</p>
<p>I guess that's it for this build, I'll now check the others (I did read them before, mind you, but with all that happened here I forgot about the specifics). I particullary like Kor and Turret.</p>I like Spruce's versatility, he has a good mix of skills.
but his relatively low HP and poor Reflex saves are worrisome, specially considering he engages in melee with 2 weapons and no shield. If he's attacking from distance, he risks being the target of a Fireball, which would put him in a bad spot, considering poor reflexes saves (although these are alleviated by his Dex and gear) and lower than average HP.
His impressive stealth modifier allows him to scout pretty well and use...Lemmy2012-06-08T17:38:06ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckNicoshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7742012-06-08T17:27:18Z2012-06-08T17:27:18Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Galnörag wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Black_Lantern wrote:</div><blockquote> Paladins also have heavy roleplaying restrictions. </blockquote>Do you meany roleplaying opportunities? </blockquote><p>Everyone have the same opportunities of a lawfulgoodness life, the paladin does not have the same freedom of the others.Galnörag wrote:Black_Lantern wrote: Paladins also have heavy roleplaying restrictions.
Do you meany roleplaying opportunities? Everyone have the same opportunities of a lawfulgoodness life, the paladin does not have the same freedom of the others.Nicos2012-06-08T17:27:18ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckGalnöraghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7732012-06-09T00:48:04Z2012-06-08T17:24:22Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Black_Lantern wrote:</div><blockquote> Paladins also have heavy roleplaying restrictions. </blockquote><p>Do you meany roleplaying opportunities?Black_Lantern wrote:Paladins also have heavy roleplaying restrictions.
Do you meany roleplaying opportunities?Galnörag2012-06-08T17:24:22ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckNicoshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7722012-06-08T17:20:41Z2012-06-08T17:20:41Z<p>There should be a place when posting all those builds instead of being scattered across the thread.</p>There should be a place when posting all those builds instead of being scattered across the thread.Nicos2012-06-08T17:20:41ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckciretosehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7712012-06-08T17:23:19Z2012-06-08T17:18:14Z<p>I was looking at the little guys. I must have missed the half orc in the flood :)</p>I was looking at the little guys. I must have missed the half orc in the flood :)ciretose2012-06-08T17:18:14ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckBob_Loblawhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7702014-05-14T19:10:31Z2012-06-08T17:14:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">ciretose wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Bob_Loblaw wrote:</div><blockquote> Any critiques of my builds? We've picked on the ranger and paladin but this is supposed to be about others as well. </blockquote>I worry a bit about your damage dealing, but I like the flavor and don't think they would hold back any party they were in. </blockquote><p>Depending on which build you're looking at I can see that. The half-orc is dealing more than enough damage. Spruce can handle the damage through multiple attacks at this level but as he levels he needs to do something. I have some ideas and I will see how they pan out. Turret isn't supposed to deal a lot of damage per hit either, at least not yet. He's going to be interesting as he grows as well. The gnome is similar to Spruce in that he will be dealing less damage but will have more attacks. I think it will balance itself out. DR is the biggest issue that they will face but they all have some money left over for potions to enhance themselves. I didn't know what I wanted to buy so I just left a bunch of money unspent.ciretose wrote:Bob_Loblaw wrote: Any critiques of my builds? We've picked on the ranger and paladin but this is supposed to be about others as well.
I worry a bit about your damage dealing, but I like the flavor and don't think they would hold back any party they were in. Depending on which build you're looking at I can see that. The half-orc is dealing more than enough damage. Spruce can handle the damage through multiple attacks at this level but as he levels he needs to do something. I...Bob_Loblaw2012-06-08T17:14:48ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckNicoshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7692012-06-08T17:10:34Z2012-06-08T17:10:34Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bob_Loblaw wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
I would like for Ashiel to complete the ranger and paladin. I would like to see how each does compared to the fighters. </blockquote><p>Me too.
</p>
I disagree, I mean HEAVILY disagree with ashiel in the wand issue but this thread already have a judge, and Lemmy have spoken his verdict, so we need to move on.</p>Bob_Loblaw wrote:I would like for Ashiel to complete the ranger and paladin. I would like to see how each does compared to the fighters.
Me too.
I disagree, I mean HEAVILY disagree with ashiel in the wand issue but this thread already have a judge, and Lemmy have spoken his verdict, so we need to move on.Nicos2012-06-08T17:10:34ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckciretosehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7682012-06-08T17:05:48Z2012-06-08T17:05:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bob_Loblaw wrote:</div><blockquote> Any critiques of my builds? We've picked on the ranger and paladin but this is supposed to be about others as well. </blockquote><p>I worry a bit about your damage dealing, but I like the flavor and don't think they would hold back any party they were in.Bob_Loblaw wrote:Any critiques of my builds? We've picked on the ranger and paladin but this is supposed to be about others as well.
I worry a bit about your damage dealing, but I like the flavor and don't think they would hold back any party they were in.ciretose2012-06-08T17:05:48ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckNicoshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7672012-06-08T17:04:54Z2012-06-08T17:04:54Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ashiel wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Okay, some commentary on builds.
</p>
Nicos posted a halfling Paladin <a href="http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5stz&page=14?Why-fighters-suck#688" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a> that looks like a good start on a mounted build (I'm guessing?). I think it looks fair. Definitely defensive (+1 size is good for that) and he could get a 21 AC at 1st level with a heavy shield). I think he forgot his size bonus to hit, since his attack mods should probably be +3 scimitar and +5 charging.
<br />
</blockquote><p>I am exploring if a mounted TWF sword and shield halfling paladin is viable. Sadly is heavily feat dependent and it would not be that good until mounted skirmisher.Ashiel wrote:Okay, some commentary on builds.
Nicos posted a halfling Paladin here that looks like a good start on a mounted build (I'm guessing?). I think it looks fair. Definitely defensive (+1 size is good for that) and he could get a 21 AC at 1st level with a heavy shield). I think he forgot his size bonus to hit, since his attack mods should probably be +3 scimitar and +5 charging.
I am exploring if a mounted TWF sword and shield halfling paladin is viable. Sadly is heavily feat...Nicos2012-06-08T17:04:54ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckAshielhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7662012-06-08T17:04:03Z2012-06-08T17:04:03Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bob_Loblaw wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Ashiel wrote:</div><blockquote> I'll try to comment on some of the other builds shortly. My brother's friend is coming over and they want me to run them a D&D game, so I need to get a couple of notes together and do that. Family > Forums y'know. :) </blockquote>Completely unacceptable. This is all about me now. :) </blockquote><p>I think my brother would say something similar. :P •moves notes to laptop•Bob_Loblaw wrote:Ashiel wrote: I'll try to comment on some of the other builds shortly. My brother's friend is coming over and they want me to run them a D&D game, so I need to get a couple of notes together and do that. Family > Forums y'know. :)
Completely unacceptable. This is all about me now. :) I think my brother would say something similar. :P *moves notes to laptop*Ashiel2012-06-08T17:04:03ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckBob_Loblawhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7652014-05-14T19:10:31Z2012-06-08T16:52:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Ashiel wrote:</div><blockquote> I'll try to comment on some of the other builds shortly. My brother's friend is coming over and they want me to run them a D&D game, so I need to get a couple of notes together and do that. Family > Forums y'know. :) </blockquote><p>Completely unacceptable. This is all about me now. :)Ashiel wrote:I'll try to comment on some of the other builds shortly. My brother's friend is coming over and they want me to run them a D&D game, so I need to get a couple of notes together and do that. Family > Forums y'know. :)
Completely unacceptable. This is all about me now. :)Bob_Loblaw2012-06-08T16:52:46ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckBob_Loblawhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7642014-05-14T19:10:31Z2012-06-08T16:51:49Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Guy Kilmore wrote:</div><blockquote> I agree. (As the lurker and the guy just reading this stuff. I am finding the thought experiment interesting. I am learning stuff that will make me a better GM and I have enough information to make decisions based upon the playstyle of my group.) </blockquote><p>I hope you and others are seeing interesting ways to build and use fighters. Rangers and paladins are relatively easy to build because their abilities are mostly preset and the class design guides the user through the process. Fighters don't have that so it takes a bit more understanding of how the feats interact with each other and you really do have to know where you want to go with the build.
<p>I treat my characters a lot like authors treat their characters: I let the character talk to me and tell me what he wants to do next. Just because a particular feat is mechanically better than another does not mean I'm going to take it. I look at how the feats fit the concept. I won't take a useless feat just to prove that I can get by with fewer feats, that would be silly (even if I can do it, I don't think it will show of value).</p>Guy Kilmore wrote:I agree. (As the lurker and the guy just reading this stuff. I am finding the thought experiment interesting. I am learning stuff that will make me a better GM and I have enough information to make decisions based upon the playstyle of my group.)
I hope you and others are seeing interesting ways to build and use fighters. Rangers and paladins are relatively easy to build because their abilities are mostly preset and the class design guides the user through the process....Bob_Loblaw2012-06-08T16:51:49ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckLemmyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7632012-06-08T16:43:15Z2012-06-08T16:43:15Z<p>Sorry, Bob, things derailed so quickly I forgot to post about your builds. I'll reread them now.</p>Sorry, Bob, things derailed so quickly I forgot to post about your builds. I'll reread them now.Lemmy2012-06-08T16:43:15ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckAshielhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7622012-06-08T16:43:11Z2012-06-08T16:43:11Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bob_Loblaw wrote:</div><blockquote>I would like for Ashiel to complete the ranger and paladin.</blockquote><p>For you Bob, I will.Bob_Loblaw wrote:I would like for Ashiel to complete the ranger and paladin.
For you Bob, I will.Ashiel2012-06-08T16:43:11ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckAshielhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7612012-06-08T16:40:17Z2012-06-08T16:40:17Z<p>Okay, some commentary on builds.
<br />
Nicos posted a halfling Paladin <a href="http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5stz&page=14?Why-fighters-suck#688" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a> that looks like a good start on a mounted build (I'm guessing?). I think it looks fair. Definitely defensive (+1 size is good for that) and he could get a 21 AC at 1st level with a heavy shield). I think he forgot his size bonus to hit, since his attack mods should probably be +3 scimitar and +5 charging.</p>
<p>Bob_Loblaw posted a very interesting Fighter build <a href="http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5stz&page=14?Why-fighters-suck#699" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a> of his Fighter "Turret". Turrent seems to be built as a Tank, and a pretty good one as far as physical evasion % is concerned. Another halfling. The halfling build is good for a Fighter since the halfling saving throw bonuses and fearless help Fighters a good bit, and the +1 to hit and AC is IMHO more important than raw damage (and actually returns more damage when you combine with Power Attack). The sling specializations are amusing, and it makes me feel warm and gooey inside to see slings getting some love (even if it is another example of needing 2-3 feats to wipe your ass in Pathfinder). The DR that he gets from his armor is fairly solid at this level (actually enough to mean something) and I believe he excels at fighting tons of mooks but has enough offense to keep single target foes busy to make me happy. Halfling gives him a nice boost on some skills and he seems to have picked his skills wisely. My biggest concern is his tactics in combat seem a bit limited and he might get CCed easily; but at this level that's kind of an expected risk and I think he does better at making saves than most (his weak save is highly respectable).</p>
<p>I'll try to comment on some of the other builds shortly. My brother's friend is coming over and they want me to run them a D&D game, so I need to get a couple of notes together and do that. Family > Forums y'know. :)</p>Okay, some commentary on builds.
Nicos posted a halfling Paladin here that looks like a good start on a mounted build (I'm guessing?). I think it looks fair. Definitely defensive (+1 size is good for that) and he could get a 21 AC at 1st level with a heavy shield). I think he forgot his size bonus to hit, since his attack mods should probably be +3 scimitar and +5 charging.
Bob_Loblaw posted a very interesting Fighter build here of his Fighter "Turret". Turrent seems to be built as a Tank,...Ashiel2012-06-08T16:40:17ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckGuy Kilmorehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7602012-06-08T16:36:31Z2012-06-08T16:36:31Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bob_Loblaw wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Here's my take on Ashiel's builds:</p>
<p>I don't really care if she has partial wands. Partial wands count against your WBL accordingly. It doesn't really matter how she got them so long as they are not crafted as partial wands, which they weren't. She was trying to give some back story to the characters and maybe it didn't mesh well with how some people viewed her justification. I really don't concern myself with things like that. I look at how the character functions overall. If she got them through trade or found them or they were a gift from a friend or they were given as a quest reward or whatever, it really doesn't matter. They are legal to count against the WBL with their value prorated for the number of charges remaining.</p>
<p>I won't be using partial wands because I don't think I need them for what I'm trying to accomplish. She is building her characters as if they are in an actual game. I am building mine with only this comparison in mind.</p>
<p>I would like for Ashiel to complete the ranger and paladin. I would like to see how each does compared to the fighters. I think I have already shown that my fighters are competent in and out of battle. Some are more specialized than others, but they can do more than just hit things. I've got more to show with each of them (and I'm thinking about posting a half-elf as well just so we don't miss out on how another race).</p>
<p>Whether or not Ashiel has said anything about +2 items at level 20 really doesn't matter for this discussion. I say we drop it and move on with what we are doing. If something doesn't add to the discussion, then we should just drop it altogether. I was serious about stopping the silly jabs at each other. It is detracting from the conversation. </blockquote><p>I agree. (As the lurker and the guy just reading this stuff. I am finding the thought experiment interesting. I am learning stuff that will make me a better GM and I have enough information to make decisions based upon the playstyle of my group.)Bob_Loblaw wrote:Here's my take on Ashiel's builds:
I don't really care if she has partial wands. Partial wands count against your WBL accordingly. It doesn't really matter how she got them so long as they are not crafted as partial wands, which they weren't. She was trying to give some back story to the characters and maybe it didn't mesh well with how some people viewed her justification. I really don't concern myself with things like that. I look at how the character functions overall. If...Guy Kilmore2012-06-08T16:36:31ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckBob_Loblawhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7592014-05-14T19:10:31Z2012-06-08T16:29:01Z<p>Here's my take on Ashiel's builds:</p>
<p>I don't really care if she has partial wands. Partial wands count against your WBL accordingly. It doesn't really matter how she got them so long as they are not crafted as partial wands, which they weren't. She was trying to give some back story to the characters and maybe it didn't mesh well with how some people viewed her justification. I really don't concern myself with things like that. I look at how the character functions overall. If she got them through trade or found them or they were a gift from a friend or they were given as a quest reward or whatever, it really doesn't matter. They are legal to count against the WBL with their value prorated for the number of charges remaining.</p>
<p>I won't be using partial wands because I don't think I need them for what I'm trying to accomplish. She is building her characters as if they are in an actual game. I am building mine with only this comparison in mind.</p>
<p>I would like for Ashiel to complete the ranger and paladin. I would like to see how each does compared to the fighters. I think I have already shown that my fighters are competent in and out of battle. Some are more specialized than others, but they can do more than just hit things. I've got more to show with each of them (and I'm thinking about posting a half-elf as well just so we don't miss out on how another race).</p>
<p>Whether or not Ashiel has said anything about +2 items at level 20 really doesn't matter for this discussion. I say we drop it and move on with what we are doing. If something doesn't add to the discussion, then we should just drop it altogether. I was serious about stopping the silly jabs at each other. It is detracting from the conversation.</p>Here's my take on Ashiel's builds:
I don't really care if she has partial wands. Partial wands count against your WBL accordingly. It doesn't really matter how she got them so long as they are not crafted as partial wands, which they weren't. She was trying to give some back story to the characters and maybe it didn't mesh well with how some people viewed her justification. I really don't concern myself with things like that. I look at how the character functions overall. If she got them...Bob_Loblaw2012-06-08T16:29:01ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckAshielhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7582012-06-08T16:24:52Z2012-06-08T16:24:52Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bob_Loblaw wrote:</div><blockquote> Any critiques of my builds? We've picked on the ranger and paladin but this is supposed to be about others as well. </blockquote><p>Gimme a bit to rummage through the trash posts Bob, and I'll give you my honest thoughts on them. I need to find your posts in the thread. :)Bob_Loblaw wrote:Any critiques of my builds? We've picked on the ranger and paladin but this is supposed to be about others as well.
Gimme a bit to rummage through the trash posts Bob, and I'll give you my honest thoughts on them. I need to find your posts in the thread. :)Ashiel2012-06-08T16:24:52ZRe: Forums/Pathfinder First Edition: General Discussion: Why fighters suckBob_Loblawhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2o6d3&page=16?Why-fighters-suck#7562014-05-14T19:10:31Z2012-06-08T16:20:22Z<p>Any critiques of my builds? We've picked on the ranger and paladin but this is supposed to be about others as well.</p>Any critiques of my builds? We've picked on the ranger and paladin but this is supposed to be about others as well.Bob_Loblaw2012-06-08T16:20:22Z