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An alternate end for Arron Ivy [spoiler]


Skull & Shackles


Hey folks. I just picked up Wormword Mutiny today and have discovered that it's the second adventure path in a row (the previous being Jade Regent's The Empty Throne) with a scene that I absolutely will not be able to run as-written.

Arron Ivy's body is found hanging on Bonewrack Isle in the Castaway's Stockade, with a kicked stool indicating quite clearly that he hung himself (or attempted to anyways). I need help on choosing some other method of death that would fit for him that will still allow for the trapped ghast encounter to work somehow.


The easiest would probably be having him caught and pulled into the air by a snare trap he was working on. Would explain why the gate was ajar (since he was outside), and you could even work up a little story about him trying to capture the prostitute in his locket (not that players would probably ever find it out). You could even use the same mechanics of escape.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

When I run this, I fully intend for Ivy to be alive and still holding out against the ghouls infesting the island.


mikeawmids wrote:
When I run this, I fully intend for Ivy to be alive and still holding out against the ghouls infesting the island.

That's a neat potential idea, but it also removes the interesting encounter of the trapped ghast who needs to grapple PCs to get free.

I think I'm going to go with Mort's snare suggestion; have him caught by a foot and actually hanging upside down in a snare trap he was constructing when the players find him. Perhaps I'll put a snare trap or two outside on the path up to the stockade as well, to make it seem more credible. No kicked stool. Not putting myself through that again, nor any of my players.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Is it the suicide attempt that makes it not function for your particular group?


Neverwillibreak wrote:
Is it the suicide attempt that makes it not function for your particular group?

Yes. The entire group has had bad experiences with it.

Hanging in particular is a bad form of suicide around us though. One of the players lost her brother to it.

It's not something I want to evoke memories of. For any of us. Especially in what's supposed to be a fun game.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yeah I think you're doing it right, sadly a friend of us did this too less than a year ago, and sad jokes came up from my players so we ended up the session, I had to think about that.


absolutely, change the scene if its going to upset your players. One thing though, a single individual all alone against an Island full of undead, and aberations for god knows how long? Ivy is most probly going to be whacked out of his mind, nuts at this point. Think Tom Hanks in Castaway, and he didn't have to contend with flesh eating ghouls, It's perfectly reasonable to say that Arron Ivy survived (he has a fresh water source, which is the only crucial survival point, really) but I cant imagine his mind has.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hmmm...Kempton raises a good point, he could be alive, but he would be crazy paranoid. Now, is it suicide PERIOD that s the problem, or is it the hanging SPECIFICALLY?

Maybe, he started going crazy and didn't want to leave the confines of his sanctuary. He then went hungry and started munching on himself in his crazy state before succumbing to the disease.


HangarFlying wrote:

Hmmm...Kempton raises a good point, he could be alive, but he would be crazy paranoid. Now, is it suicide PERIOD that s the problem, or is it the hanging SPECIFICALLY?

Maybe, he started going crazy and didn't want to leave the confines of his sanctuary. He then went hungry and started munching on himself in his crazy state before succumbing to the disease.

Well he's not a samurai (who for some reason are immune to our distaste of suicide. I don't know why, we just can't take the concept of seppuku seriously) so it's suicide period that's the problem. Hanging just makes it worse.

I want to keep him dead (well, undead), because I think the encounter style of him needing to grapple a PC to escape is cool. Alive could work, but I think I'll avoid that.


well, gluttony, I can tell you that the theory behind the samurai suicide thing stems from the following belief : A Samurai's whole reason for living is to protect and serve his/her lord. Death in service of one's lord (preferibly in battle) is the ultimate honor one can attain for one's name, which lives on after you and is passed to your children, your job is to do nothing to dishonor this name while you wear it. This begs the question, what happens if your lord orders you to do something that dishonors you. Catch-22? No, ritual suicide is the honorable way to inform your lord that you will neither stain your honor by disobeying him, nor will you commit a dishonorable act. You have to understand that to many eastern societies, the individual isn't important, the group, family,or society is. Now, I am no proponant of suicide in any form, but that is the reasoning behind it, at least to my understanding.


as to the situation, whats wrong with making him attack anything that comes in the pallasade? Remember, he has been fending off attacks from literally everything , for a number of years, just to live. He couldnt sleep, he couldnt rest, he couldnt stop. I would treat it as the ultimate paranoia, because, well, everything IS out to get him. no need to incorporate anything about the suicide. He hides. When anything comes in , he attacks/grapples it and fights to the death. That has become his life.


J.A.Kempton wrote:
well, gluttony, I can tell you that the belief behind the samurai suicide thing stems from the following belief : A Samurai's whole reason for living is to protect and serve his/her lord. Death in service of one's lord (preferibly in battle) is the ultimate honor one can attain for one's name, which lives on after you and is passed to your children, your job is to do nothing to dishonor this name while you wear it. This begs the question, what happens if your lord orders you to do something that dishonors you. Catch-22? No, ritual suicide is the honorable way to inform your lord that you will neither stain your honor by disobeying him, nor will you commit a dishonorable act. You have to understand that to many eastern societies, the individual isn't important, the group, family,or society is. Now, I am no proponant of suicide in any form, but that is the reasoning behind it, at least to my understanding.

Mmhm, I knew the reasoning behind it. I still just find it to be a weird exception (for some reason) to something I normally can't stomach the idea of.


I agree, but, I assume I wouldnt make a very good samurai


J.A.Kempton wrote:
as to the situation, whats wrong with making him attack anything that comes in the pallasade , remember, he has been fending off attacks from literally everything , for a number of years, just to live. He couldnt sleep, he couldnt rest, he couldnt stop. I would treat it as the ultimate paranoia, because, well, everything IS out to get him. no need to incorporate anything about the suicide. He hides. When anything comes in , he attacks/grapples it and fights to the death. That has become his life.

I like the actual "He needs to grapple to escape the situation he's in" concept.

A combat where he simply favours grappling is just a combat with a grabby opponent, nothing special without him being stuck.

I want to change it, but I still want to make it a neat encounter. The players have faced grapplers before, and they've faced NPCs who've gone insane, perceived them as a threat when they weren't one, or wouldn't listen to reason. The grapple/escape enemy is something that will be new to them (hence why I'm going to have him hanging by the foot in a snare; same mechanic, essentially the same encounter, but no mention of suicide).


how about this? He succomed to the mosquito/fly bites and died from the ghoul feaver, once a ghoul, he stumbled into a spring trap that he had set himself, in life (he had to sleep sometime, after all). He dangles in this state till a juicy morsel comes into reach, because he doesnt have the mental capacity to get out of the trap. Basically, the only thing you remove is the suicide aspect.


That's pretty much what I'm doing, yes.

Whether he fell into the trap before or after his death doesn't really matter since PCs at such an early level will have pretty much no way to discern details so specifically, they'll just be able to tell that he fell into his own trap.

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