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How to deal with Ring of Blinking, PC uses it continously.


Rules Questions

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Qadira

I have a PC using a ring of blinking all the time. He gains DR/Magic.
Is there a rule in place to have Monster HD a equivilant + to overcome DR. I believe their was in 3.5 not so sure in PFRPG.

He is around 8th level so most creatures that do not have magic attacks offer no threat.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber

It doesn't look like it. If the creature has DR/Magic, it's natural attacks are considered magic and bypass it, but that looks to be it for PFRPG. Well, and magic weapons of course =p

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

What does a Ring of Blinking have to do with DR?

Anyway, if most enemies of an 8th level character are slowed down by DR/magic, something's gone horribly wrong. Any NPC could easily have a +1 weapon. Most monsters should be dealing enough damage that they still get a good chunk through despite his DR (how much does he have?). NPCs and monsters alike should be using spells or similar abilities to injure or debilitate him.

I really don't see the issue here.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A few things: What is a level 8 character who's WBL is meant to be around 33k doing with a 27k ring?

Also, to be affected by the blink, he needs to spend a standard action to command it to activate. It lasts for 7 rounds.

...I don't recall such a rule.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Also,

Quote:
Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures' natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Qadira

Jiggy first review the Ring of Blinking. (IMHO this item needs Errata unlimited uses per day)

Don't assume non munchkin builds example of WBL in this paticular example, Arcane bond.

Thanks Snig,Cheapy I recall at some point there was a HD/+ in 3.5 I will have to really research it. This thouh is for PFS, so I have to tread lightly.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Red-Assassin wrote:
Jiggy first review the Ring of Blinking.

I did. I saw nothing about granting DR.


Er, Ring of Blinking does not grant DR.

Qadira

From they Blink spell on the SRD site. In a home game I would limit these type effects. This is not the case here/

An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down. As an incorporeal creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures.

Incorporeal

Creatures with the incorporeal condition do not have a physical body. Incorporeal creatures are immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Incorporeal creatures take half damage (50%) from magic weapons, spells, spell-like effects, and supernatural effects. Incorporeal creatures take full damage from other incorporeal creatures and effects, as well as all force effects. See here for additional information.

Note I really hate the blink spell its wording of effects are terribly ambigous. (grumble).

Instead of the Orginally Title

I should of titled this How to deal with a player using A ring of blinking every 7 rounds in combat and out.

Blink spell in full

You "blink" quickly back and forth between the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane and look as though you're winking in and out of reality at random. Blink has several effects, as follows.

Physical attacks against you have a 50% miss chance, and the Blind-Fight feat doesn't help opponents, since you're ethereal and not merely invisible. If the attack is capable of striking ethereal creatures, the miss chance is only 20% (for concealment).

If the attacker can see invisible creatures, the miss chance is also only 20%. (For an attacker who can both see and strike ethereal creatures, there is no miss chance.) Likewise, your own attacks have a 20% miss chance, since you sometimes go ethereal just as you are about to strike.

Any individually targeted spell has a 50% chance to fail against you while you're blinking unless your attacker can target invisible, ethereal creatures. Your own spells have a 20% chance to activate just as you go ethereal, in which case they typically do not affect the Material Plane (but they might affect targets on the Ethereal Plane).

While blinking, you take only half damage from area attacks (but full damage from those that extend onto the Ethereal Plane). Although you are only partially visible, you are not considered invisible and targets retain their Dexterity bonus to AC against your attacks. You do receive a +2 bonus on attack rolls made against enemies that cannot see invisible creatures.

You take only half damage from falling, since you fall only while you are material.

While blinking, you can step through (but not see through) solid objects. For each 5 feet of solid material you walk through, there is a 50% chance that you become material. If this occurs, you are shunted off to the nearest open space and take 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet so traveled.

Since you spend about half your time on the Ethereal Plane, you can see and even attack ethereal creatures. You interact with ethereal creatures roughly the same way you interact with material ones.

An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down. As an incorporeal creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures.

An ethereal creature can see and hear the Material Plane, but everything looks gray and insubstantial. Sight and hearing on the Material Plane are limited to 60 feet.

Force effects and abjurations affect you normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa. An ethereal creature can't attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal Plane. Treat other ethereal creatures and objects as material.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think it gives incorporeal, which means non-magical weapons do no damage against the person. That's kind of a DR/magic, sorta. If you stretch the definition.

Qadira

Change title to how to deal with a ring of blinking.

Note this is a society game so I can't easily remove the item, as well as custom create encounters.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Red-Assassin wrote:
Note this is a society game

First, audit him.

He needs something like 40 Fame to own such an item, unless he found it on a chronicle sheet (being a bonded item does NOT change that cap).

In order to upgrade his starting bonded ring to a Ring of Blinking, he doesn't need the Forge Ring feat but still has to be of the appropriate caster level, which means he needs to be at least Wizard7. If he dipped a level of wizard so he could get a half price ring on his otherwise martial character, he's about to get a nasty surprise.

But if everything checks out (he's at least a 7th level wizard, he spent the requisite 1,350gp, and has the necessary Fame), then good for him. He used a lot of cash, capitalized on a class feature, and managed to defend his squishy self. Probably a good idea.

Just remember to make him roll his 20% chance of (essentially) spell failure whenever he tries to cast while blinking.

Cheliax

Here is my suggestion, a little blunt, but a couple of these young Dweomercats should give him some trouble.

Dweomercat + Amulet of Mighty Fists:

SASSY CR 7
Male Dweomercat
CN Small Magical Beast
Init +14; Senses Darkvision (60 feet), Low-Light Vision, Scent; Perception +18
--------------------
DEFENSE
--------------------
AC 28, touch 22, flat-footed 17 (+10 Dex, +1 size, +6 natural, +1 dodge)
hp 85 (10d10+30)
Fort +10, Ref +17, Will +8
DR 5/magic; SR 19
--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 40 ft.
Melee Bite (Dweomercat) +22 (1d4+3/20/x2) and
Claw x2 (Dweomercat) +22 x2 (1d3+3/20/x2) and
Rake x2 (Dweomercat) +22 x2 (1d3+3/20/x2)
Special Attacks Dweomer Leap, Pounce
Spell-Like Abilities Antimagic Field (3/day), Detect Magic (Constant), Dimension Door (self only) (3/day), Dispel Magic (At will), Globe of Invulnerability, Lesser (At will)
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 15, Dex 31, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 20, Cha 20
Base Atk +10; CMB +11; CMD 32 (36 vs. Trip)
Feats Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +17, Climb +15, Fly +21, Knowledge (Arcana) +13, Perception +18, Stealth +27, Swim +9
Languages Common, Dwarven, Gnome, Sylvan
SQ Hero Points (1), Spell Link (Su)
Other Gear Amulet of Mighty Fists +1
--------------------
SPECIAL ABILITIES
--------------------
Damage Reduction (5/magic) You have Damage Reduction against all except Magic attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Dweomer Leap (Su) Teleport adjacent to anyone who casts a spell at you, in the middle of a pounce full attack.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Mobility +4 to AC against some attacks of opportunity.
Pounce (Ex) You can make a full attack as part of a charge.
Scent (Ex) Detect opponents within 15+ feet by sense of smell.
Spell Link (Su) Gain various effects when targetted by spells.
Spell Resistance (19) You have Spell Resistance.
Spring Attack You can move - attack - move when attacking with a melee weapon.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber

I don't think blink is supposed to give the full benefit of being incorporeal. If you're getting hit (that 50% miss chance), then they swung at you during that brief time you slipped back over and became corporeal on the Prime Material Plane. When you're here, you're here, that's why you have the chance of getting shunted outside of walls when moving through them too. At least that's how I'm interpreting it, and would run it at my tables, PFS or no.

Qadira

Jiggy I audited him the first time saw it, you did bring up a singular point that I miised. The 7th level caster requirement. I think he has a couple lorewarden levels. So what should I do with the item he has and can't use. I really miised that one.

Osirion

If this is society play and you have little-to-no room to modify the scenario, AND his possession of the ring stands up to an audit, then there is nothing you can really do, other than watch out for some resource (Villain, Monster, Trap, etc) that can sunder/disenchant/steal/cut-away the ring from him. Which is sure to cause headaches of it's own.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber

He'd need to sell it back at what he paid for it, or if he bought on the last chronicle or something that's easy to change, maybe retcon it there. Until he's high enough to craft, he can hold onto the cash if he wants to continue with this line of thought.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Red-Assassin wrote:

Jiggy I audited him the first time saw it, you did bring up a singular point that I miised. The 7th level caster requirement. I think he has a couple lorewarden levels. So what should I do with the item he has and can't use. I really miised that one.

You might want to ask that over in the PFS boards. I haven't had occasion to look up the procedure on such a situation. It might be a matter of removing the item and refunding the gold, I'm not sure.

Qadira

I don't have his character on hand but he is at least 7th.

Snig hopefully this is a singular occurance for PFS. The language is not clear. If it was a home game I would definately follow your point of view. After the next audit, I will examine his caster level.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

The character is only ethereal/incorporeal while he is blinked out.

50% of the time, he will simply be struck and take damage, magic weapon or no.


Ross, the problem is what happens when someone can see and strike an ethereal creature. What qualifies as the ability to strike an ethereal creature?

Possible answers:
Spells (other than force and abjuration spells) which result in half damage or a 50% miss chance (as per incorporeal rules)?
Magic weapon (as per incorporeal rules) which results in half damage?
Ghost Touch weapon (as per incorporeal rules) which results in full damage?

Note: Force and abjuration effects can hit ethereal creatures, this is not in question.

- Gauss

Edit: I stated 50% miss chance from spells. I shouldve stated half damage or 50% miss chance from spells as per incorporeality.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber
Gauss wrote:

Ross, the problem is what happens when someone can see and strike an ethereal creature. What qualifies as the ability to strike an ethereal creature?

Possible answers:
Spells (other than force and abjuration spells) which result in a 50% miss chance (as per incorporeal rules)?
Magic weapon (as per incorporeal rules) which results in half damage?
Ghost Touch weapon (as per incorporeal rules) which results in full damage?

Note: Force and abjuration effects can hit ethereal creatures, this is not in question.

- Gauss

From Blink (and quoted from above): (For an attacker who can both see and strike ethereal creatures, there is no miss chance.)

And the ability to strike an ethereal creature is basically a force effect, abjuration, being ethereal yourself, or ghost touch weapon (or ectoplasmic spell). I think I got all the main ways to do so in there.

Andoran

Having an 8th level wizard, in PFS, with such a ring, I don't think the DR part applies. That is why you get the 50% miss chance. I would not allow a 50% miss chance and than when can be hit add to that DR15/magic. The spell don't allow.
As for him being multiclassed, than he don't get the ring, cause his wizard level isn't high enough. I think you should audit right away, and remove it, reimburse him the money.


Sniggevert, check what I wrote again. What qualifies as the ability to STRIKE an ethereal creature.

First: I already stated force and abjuration are not in question.

Second, if you are ethereal you have the same problem but in reverse. You have a 20% miss chance against the blink person since they blink to the material plane when you attack.

Third: The Ghost touch weapon property does not state that you can strike ethereal creatures. So either ethereal creatures use the rules regarding incorporeality (meaning that magic weapons, spells, etc can hit) or Ghost touch is a special exception that is not listed in its property description. Show me a page where it states this.

- Gauss


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules Subscriber

If the character actually made the ring, do they actually need the caster level? Given the crafting rules that I see on the boards every so often, isn't it just a flat out +5 to the craft DC for missing one prereq? Otherwise a non spell caster would never be able to craft magical gear (which PFRPG has seemed to specifically allow due to those rules).

I don't do PFS so I'm not aware of any limitations there might be above/beyond the core books.


Skylancer4, the rules for arcane bond state that you can only apply craft feats to your arcane bond at the appropriate levels. Thus, an arcane bond ring can only be crafted at the level when you are normally eligible for Forge Ring (caster level 7).

- Gauss

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber
Gauss wrote:

Sniggevert, check what I wrote again. What qualifies as the ability to STRIKE an ethereal creature.

First: I already stated force and abjuration are not in question.

Second, if you are ethereal you have the same problem but in reverse. You have a 20% miss chance against the blink person since they blink to the material plane when you attack.

Third: The Ghost touch weapon property does not state that you can strike ethereal creatures. So either ethereal creatures use the rules regarding incorporeality (meaning that magic weapons, spells, etc can hit) or Ghost touch is a special exception that is not listed in its property description. Show me a page where it states this.

- Gauss

My bad, the Ghost Touch is incorporeal only, not ethereal. I didn't look, was going from memory on that one.

To affect/strike an ethereal creature, you have to be ethereal, use a force effect, an abjuration effect or an ectoplasmic spell.

From Ethereal Jaunt in PRD wrote:
Force effects and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa. An ethereal creature can't attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal Plane.

Qadira

12 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think this spell needs errata.
There is simply to many stacking conditions etherealness incorporal and then invisibility.

I think the hold over effects of 3.5 show when Paizo changed the conditions of these effects. Making these conditions more effective. Making a powerful spell more powerful.

Making a ring that grants these improved conditions even more effective, as well as keeping it nearly unlimited times per day.

So what does this ring do, allot. A gain of an ability greater than evasion. Incorpreal and ethereal and invisible conditons. The ability to fly, the ability to move through objects. A conditional +2 to attack. A 50% miss chance against melee and spells, most are hard hard to overcome.

I am flagging this post FAQ for errata.


Sniggevert, I have searched all of the rulebooks. I cannot find anything other than in the ethereal jaunt spell that discusses combat between the ethereal and material planes.

There are too many assumptions being made.

- Gauss


Gauss wrote:

Sniggevert, check what I wrote again. What qualifies as the ability to STRIKE an ethereal creature.

First: I already stated force and abjuration are not in question.

Second, if you are ethereal you have the same problem but in reverse. You have a 20% miss chance against the blink person since they blink to the material plane when you attack.

Third: The Ghost touch weapon property does not state that you can strike ethereal creatures. So either ethereal creatures use the rules regarding incorporeality (meaning that magic weapons, spells, etc can hit) or Ghost touch is a special exception that is not listed in its property description. Show me a page where it states this.

- Gauss

Other than force effects and abjurations, not much can effect ethereal creatures. Ectoplasmic Spell comes to mind, I can't think of anything else at the moment.

Basically, weapons and abilities that say they can hit ethereal creatures can, otherwise, they can't. What else do you want?


Nothing Quantum Steve, there is just alot of assumptions that people operate under on both sides. Relics of 3.5 pervade. Nobody can show a page that states how ethereal and material relate to each other except for the spell ethereal jaunt. Ethereal Jaunt does not go into detail as to what effects work.

While I agree that anything that does not state it affects ethereal creatures doesn't there is still an inadequate amount of information since we are basing much of the ethereal plane mechanics on 3.5 knowledge.

- Gauss


A more in depth look:

Blink states that ethereal creatures are incorporeal.

Ethereal Jaunt does not state this.

Ethereal Plane: (Page 440 of the Core Rulebook) is silent on the matter.

So either being ethereal means you are incorporeal...or it does not.

If incorporeal the incorporeal rules would seem to apply. Nothing ANYWHERE else in the book says otherwise. Of course, my 3.5 experience says that this isnt the case. But this is no longer 3.5.

- Gauss

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber
Gauss wrote:

Nothing Quantum Steve, there is just alot of assumptions that people operate under on both sides. Relics of 3.5 pervade. Nobody can show a page that states how ethereal and material relate to each other except for the spell ethereal jaunt. Ethereal Jaunt does not go into detail as to what effects work.

While I agree that anything that does not state it affects ethereal creatures doesn't there is still an inadequate amount of information since we are basing much of the ethereal plane mechanics on 3.5 knowledge.

- Gauss

How far does it have to go for what affects an ethereal creature? Three items can do so from the Prime Material plane (force, abjuration and ectoplasmic). Outside of that, you've got to be on the Ethereal plane to affect an ethereal creature.

Effecting a creature that's blinking with the 50% miss chance for weapons or chance to miss with a spell, is trying to hit them when they're corporeal, and they are affected normally by them.


Sniggevert, can you provide any page references that state that despite ethereal creatures being incorporeal you are to ignore the rules on incorporeality? Or any pages that state material plane attacks that normally affect incorporeal creatures do not affect ethereal?

Again, I am of the mind that the rules on incorporeal creatures do not apply to ethereal creatures. But I cannot provide proof for this stance. I am currently playing devil's advocate in order to find the truth.

- Gauss

Qadira

I can't speak for snig. I am thinking the 50% miss chance is from the creature blinking ethearly. with incorp preventing non magic weapons from hitting. This also makes the user immune to crits, fortification 100%.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber
Gauss wrote:
Sniggevert, can you provide any page references that state that despite ethereal creatures being incorporeal you are to ignore the rules on incorporeality?

I'm not saying they do. I'm saying while Blinking a person is 50% of the time on the Ethereal plane (can't be touched) and 50% of the time on the Prime Material plane (can be touched normally).

Quote:
Or any pages that state material plane attacks that normally affect incorporeal creatures do not affect ethereal?

Well, Ethereal Jaunt lists what effects carry through, and ectoplasmic spell calls out that it carries over to the Ethereal plane. Outside of that, there's nothing stating that anything will cross the planar boundary. Being incorporeal on the Prime Material plane is not the same as being on different plane of existence all together.

Quote:


Again, I am of the mind that they do not. But I cannot provide proof for this stance. I am currently playing devil's advocate in order to find the truth.

- Gauss

I'll respond more later if there's more discussion. Finishing up some stuff at work atm.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Gauss wrote:

Sniggevert, can you provide any page references that state that despite ethereal creatures being incorporeal you are to ignore the rules on incorporeality? Or any pages that state material plane attacks that normally affect incorporeal creatures do not affect ethereal?

Again, I am of the mind that the rules on incorporeal creatures do not apply to ethereal creatures. But I cannot provide proof for this stance. I am currently playing devil's advocate in order to find the truth.

- Gauss

When I look up etherealness in the PFSRD, I see where people are getting the invisible condition from, but not the incorporeal condition. As it isn't stated under etherealness, I'm not sure why you would bring those rules into play.

Qadira

Sky it is stated in the spell.


Skylancer4: Blink spell states this, Ethereal Jaunt does not. One of these spells is incorrect. There is no condition of etherealness. The Ethereal plane section is also silent on the matter (does not even reference invisibility).

Since this is larger than blink I will start a new thread on this.

- Gauss


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Gauss wrote:

Nothing Quantum Steve, there is just alot of assumptions that people operate under on both sides. Relics of 3.5 pervade. Nobody can show a page that states how ethereal and material relate to each other except for the spell ethereal jaunt. Ethereal Jaunt does not go into detail as to what effects work.

While I agree that anything that does not state it affects ethereal creatures doesn't there is still an inadequate amount of information since we are basing much of the ethereal plane mechanics on 3.5 knowledge.

- Gauss

Yeah, I would really like a glossary definition of ethereal.

Qadira

I would urge everone to mark this as a FAQ candidate.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Gauss wrote:

Skylancer4: Blink spell states this, Ethereal Jaunt does not. One of these spells is incorrect. There is no condition of etherealness. The Ethereal plane section is also silent on the matter (does not even reference invisibility).

Since this is larger than blink I will start a new thread on this.

- Gauss

Following this from a phone so I don't have everything to reference as easily, looking at them all now I agree, odd that the two spells have that difference. I would expect an FAQ or errata incoming.


Not being one to let something like this lie I also asked James Jacobs. His response:

part 1:

James Jacobs wrote:


Gauss wrote:
James,

Assuming a person can see ethereal plane creatures: what material plane attacks can 'strike ethereal creatures'? Some possibilities are listed below.

1) Force and abjuration spells. This is the only answer I am certain of being a yes.
2) All spells do half damage or a 50% chance of affecting ethereal (as per incorporeal)?
3) Magic weapons do half damage to ethereal (as per incorporeal)?
4) Ghost touch weapons do full damage to ethereal (as per incorporeal)?

Alternately, is there a page in the rulebooks you can point me to that states any of this?

Thanks, Gauss

For the most part, you need to go to the Ethereal Plane to fight creatures there. Pathfinder has deliberately pulled away from the idea that monsters can exist on both the Material and Ethereal Plane at the same time—ghosts, in particular, have NO connection to the Ethereal Plane at all.

Furthermore, being incorporeal does NOT mean you're ethereal.

part 2:

James Jacobs wrote:


Gauss wrote:
James, I am not asking if incorporeal => ethereal. I am asking if ethereal => incorporeal. The two statements are different.

Blink states that ethereal creatures are incorporeal. Thus it would seem the incorporeal rules apply...or do they?

Ethereal Jaunt does not state that ethereal creatures are incorporeal.

Thus, either an ethereal creature is incorporeal..or it isnt depending on the spell you look at. The paragraph on page 440 regarding The ethereal plane is silent on the matter.

The problem is: From the material plane what spells, abilities, weapons affect ethereal creatures and where are the rules for this?

Respectfully, Gauss

Pretty much nothing but gaze attacks can cross that barrier between planes (And even then... gaze attacks can't affect Material Plane creatures when the source is on the Ethereal). You have to actually travel to the other plane to affect the other target.

In previous editions of D&D, there was a lot of bleedover between incorporeal and ethereal. In fact... in 2nd edition and earlier, there really WASN'T an "incorporeal" state—it was always ethereal.

In Pathfinder, we've attempted to draw a hard line between the two states, but there are places where the old language still bleeds through. Blink is one of those cases.

Looks like blink is in error. But this still needs to be FAQ'd. I will reproduce this on my new thread about the topic.

- Gauss

Andoran

I think sniggevert said it. incorporeal creatures are existing on both planes at once where blink sends you back and forth between the 2 planes, thus the 50% miss chance or the 20% chance your spells or attacks go off on ethereal plane.
I think part of the problem Red-Assassin your having is that you are granting blink way more than it allows. I know part of the problem is the last part of the spell that talks about incorporeal affects.

the way I read it is that you blink back and forth which gives you 50% chance of not getting hit, and 20% you miss. Allows the walking through walls because you are on the ethereal plane half the time, which means for every 5' you get a 50% of being back to this plane and get pushed out. Also lets you move in any direction. no more, no less.

I do agree that it could be better defined.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Red-Assassin wrote:
I can't speak for snig. I am thinking the 50% miss chance is from the creature blinking ethearly. with incorp preventing non magic weapons from hitting. This also makes the user immune to crits, fortification 100%.

Why would the user be immune to crits?

Taldor

Ross Byers wrote:
Red-Assassin wrote:
I can't speak for snig. I am thinking the 50% miss chance is from the creature blinking ethearly. with incorp preventing non magic weapons from hitting. This also makes the user immune to crits, fortification 100%.
Why would the user be immune to crits?

I think part of being incorporeal is that a weapon must be Ghost Touch or have some other method of getting special text to crit incorporeal creatures (like those things my group missed in HoH.) I could be wrong, though, as this hasn't been a major issue for us since then and didn't bother to double-check it, as we simply channeled the ectoplasm out of everything.


I agree that it could use re-wording, but RAW is clear that there is no DR/magic in play.

1) The spell doesn't flat out say you are ethereal/incorporeal. It says:

Quote:

You "blink" quickly back and forth between the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane and look as though you're winking in and out of reality at random. Blink has several effects, as follows.

Physical attacks against you have a 50% miss chance, and the Blind-Fight feat doesn't help opponents, since you're ethereal and not merely invisible. If the attack is capable of striking ethereal creatures, the miss chance is only 20% (for concealment). (...)

The 'since you're ethereal' bit is related to the previous phrase referencing 50% miss chance and Blind-Fight not working. Think about it: Blind-Fight only applies WHEN THE ATTACKER MISSES THE MISS CHANCE - That is the context for when you are actually ethereal. Again, I agree the spell could use re-wording, because it's not much to ask for the rules to specify the exact scenarios you have specific conditions, and Blink certainly isn't doing that clearly and directly.

Going from the point that we are Ethereal only 50% of the time, we can see that there is no special immunities to individual (non-area) attacks when on the Material Plane... And when on the Ethereal plane we don't really even care about Incorporeal's Immunity to Non-Magical Attacks (and half-damage from Magical Attacks) because Blink already instituted a Miss Chance meaning if you were Ethereal for that attack it already Missed you completely: 'DR' or Immunity is irrelevant if an attack never hit. Blink is actually going well beyond the effects of full Etherealness/Incorporeality for the 50% of the time that it is also making us Ethereal/Incorporeal.

I would be curiouss how to interpret this line:

Quote:

While blinking, you can step through (but not see through) solid objects. For each 5 feet of solid material you walk through, there is a 50% chance that you become material. If this occurs, you are shunted off to the nearest open space and take 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet so traveled.

...In the context of a Bullrush (one that succeeded on it's Miss Chance for it's attack roll).

At a literal level, the 'each 5 feet of solid material' line applies only to WALKING, which is silly, people Fly (or just Swim) in D&D. Once we are open to a slightly broader definition there, would that also apply to movement that you aren't accomplishing yourself, e.g. being Bullrushed, being Moved via Grapple (Grapple also moves you adjacent once initiated), or even just Riding a Mount? (e.g. you are Blinking, your Mount has Earth Glide. Or both you and your Mount are Blinking)

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

El Baron de los Banditos wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Red-Assassin wrote:
I can't speak for snig. I am thinking the 50% miss chance is from the creature blinking ethearly. with incorp preventing non magic weapons from hitting. This also makes the user immune to crits, fortification 100%.
Why would the user be immune to crits?
I think part of being incorporeal is that a weapon must be Ghost Touch or have some other method of getting special text to crit incorporeal creatures (like those things my group missed in HoH.) I could be wrong, though, as this hasn't been a major issue for us since then and didn't bother to double-check it, as we simply channeled the ectoplasm out of everything.

The user is only ethereal half of the time. The other half, he can be struck and damaged normally.

It's a 3rd level spell: it supposed to be about as good as displacement. Not give a laundry-list of immunities with extra benefits piled on top.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Now, when I see that Ross Byers was the last person to post in a thread, I assume that either uncivil posts were deleted or the thread has been locked altogether.

This is the first time in about 3 months that it isn't the case.


Here is the link to the FAQ request thread.

- Gauss

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