Yeah, I'm trying to take Ghom as a DH on Inferno. I do about 70,000dps with all the critical hit junk and gear I got, but I think he's the kind of boss that makes it so you have to worry about defense. I consistently get him down to 3/4 of his health before he kills me. Its pretty hard to run from him and do damage while dealing with the poison clouds and his minions. Just curious if anyone else had solo'd him. I've seen the You-Tube videos that get past him, but I've noticed that they're tanking him, which with my defenses isn't possible. Plus, the way they're tanking him utilizes about four skills that I'm not used to using (i.e. never have before more than once). Also, I hate switching skills when I get to him just to lose all that Nephalim Valor. I did anyways, (a number of times) and still can't get past him. I've got about 50,000k in life, too.
No #number, Coffee?
Dal, just be careful going into Inferno.
The noob creatures in INferno hit harder then the creatures in Act 4 in Hell. It sounds like you've a good setup, however. I use the Crippling Wave 'reduce enemy damage 20%' as opposed to the Sweeping Strike "increase damage", simply because Inferno damage is so high.
But my monk RACED through Act I once he was set up right. Sounds like you are well on your way, however. You must be getting some good level 60 gear with lowered level requirements!
==Aelryinth
Youre right.
Coffeegolem#1717
Two ways to avoid the poison breath entirely? Dish up.
I'm getting better at the poison pools, but sometimes they concentrate all around me, and I can't get out of the way fast enough. My DH, they absolutely kill when they blow...my other characters didn't find them anywhere near as difficult.
If you've been able to buy your way up in gear, you're on your way. Take the One with the Elements skill and all your resists will be 495, too.
==Aelryinth
I remember one time I was on my wizard and my friend was on her witch doctor and we fought Ghom by using a little team work. She had some kind of undead wall which blocked Ghom's attacks while I dropped a hydra behind ghom then we both just opened up on the poor thing from the safety of the wall and killed him very quickly. I didn't take even one point of damage from him.
The poison breath can be avoided by teleporting (or perhaps a similar power from other classes) to a safe point behind where he already hit with it. OR there is a safe place to stand at the very end of where the breath stops. Just don't get there too early or Belial will put poison pools on the spot.
Well, I solo'd Belial with my DH last night. That...was an interesting two hours and thirty attempts, and 150k in repair bills.
I only died twice in the 'set-up' phase, both to positioning problems...I didn't get into the corner where I limited attackers.
Basic tactics...cinder walk to corner, set up Aid Station Sentry, toss out Poison Bombs to kill demons in a wall of damage; Belial shows up, Cinder Walk him 4 times, retreat to Aid station, and when he comes over, tank and bomb him and his guards until he goes away, start second phase of "true vision of the Lord of Hate".
And then die to Poison Geysers. meh.
The poison geysers 'going to a place that just blew up' only works some of the time. There are overlapping areas of effect, and blasts do come again on the same spots.
I got to know the rhthym of left hand, right hand, massive central hit, poison breath, repeat, poison geysers; repeat cycle pretty well. Between central hit and repeat, I'd Rapid FIre as long as I could, ignoring the poison breath damage.
90% of the time, it was the poison geysers that did me in. I just could not get to a clear area, or position myself precisely enough to avoid the geysers.
I tried moving to a high Vit build, 58k life!...all it did is cut down on DR, geysers still one shot me. I tried doubling the length of the sentry...it cut down on DPR, and Poison still one shot me. I tried going hand xbow and shield...that cut down WAAAAY on DPR, and insured I'd have to hit multiple poison geysers cycles...and get one hit and die. I tried the spider and webbing shot...meh, didn't slow him down at all. SHuriken cloud did nothing to him, because I never was close enough in the last fight...went back to Rapid fire for accelerated damage dealing. I don't think he takes any damage from cinder walking next to him, either.
I made it to the third set of poison geysers 6 times, and died every time. I knew what I had to do, just being able to do it was not working!
BUT! Epiphany...I realized that I was making it there when he was under 10% life.
IF I did more damage, and I could survive two geysers, I could kill him before the third set.
And so I went back to my max damage configuration of gear, used Rocket Rapid Fire to unload damage as fast as possible in the intervals between his left/right/center combo and the geysers. The poison breath was a non-issue...it never took more then half my life, and that was restored by a single health globe while I was pumping rapid fire down his ass. I was still at 44k life, because I was wearing a +12% gem in my helm that I usually don't.
It took me two more tries, and I somehow got lucky and a geyser clipped me for only minimum damage of 40k or so...and the sentry got in the final shot and finished him off.
Major bummer: I finished him with a group to get access to Act 3, so I didn't even get the acheivements for a solo kill :/
I did make sure to take my parade through the city after the end, however!
And then I grit my teeth and played Act III.
-----------------
Okay, information for you all. If you play an co-op game, and everyone else leaves, the monsters are still tougher then solo play. I went through the solo play and it was not near as tough as it had been in 'single' group play, in the couple solo games where everyone left me behind.
Now, I've got to deal with Ghom.
Ghom in Inferno uses slightly different tactics then in previous levels. I never had a problem with Ghom, either. He was slow, and I'd webbing fire him and slow him down more, just wear him down as the sentry plinked away. Wellllll, in Inferno, what he does is throw out clouds of poison at you, and the damage from these things seems to double every second...you literally cannot stay inside them no matter how good your healing is. That means even Monks with full bore defense cannot tank him effectively. If there's a way to do it as a DH, I"ll have to watch it.
And they cover a big area, and they last at least a minute each. Pretty quickly, they cover most of the room, you have to go thru the stuff just to run away, and...meh. Sucks. Then the little gobbers start following you around, and take your attention...
It probably involves having a degree of heal on hit stuff I just don't possess.
70k, Rakshasa? You must have one of my dream xbows! :P I'm topping out at 47k, but lord, does that make a difference over 28k on killing stuff, let me tell you.
Coffee, I'll stick you on friends tonight.
==Aelryinth
Is the loot better in group play? I assumed it was, but never bothered to check.
It used to be that they averaged out the GP and Magic Item find for everyone playing in your party, but with 1.04, they changed it so that everyone has their own magic percentage find instead. Still, I feel that on average there seems to be more drops simply because there are more packs of elites and you also have the benefit of trading items you find between players then and there. They also reduced the difficulty presented by increasing the number of players. More players means more enemies that do more damage and have more life, but not nearly as much as before the patch.
Yeah, with Sharpshooter, once it gets to 100 chance to crit, I do about 70,000 dmg a shot. Your fight with Belial sounds exactly like mine. I Cinder Trailed a lot right in his face and also found smokescreen invaluable for avoiding that occasionally undodgeable attack. My bow does about 1000 damage, but I'm completely tweaked on Vitality and Dexterity. Unfortunately, I don't have the survivability for Act 3 that I did for Act 2, its hard to have both a lot of resistances and do a lot of damage at the same time, and some packs of Elites are real problems (Ran into a pack of Colossal Gulgars with Teleport and Fast among other things. That sucked.)
My wizard just Tanked Belial on Inferno. I'm the opposite with him as my DH, lots of resistances (about 600-800 on each), but not enough damage capability to chew through the enemies fast enough. I'm doing about 24,000 DPS right now, and its not nearly enough to move through the beginning of Act 3 at a decent speed. It took me about 20 minutes to take down a pack of Elite Fallen Mongrels...
Force armor with the glyph that limits maximum enemy damage to a percentage of your life is FANTASTIC! Just saying.
I can hit 68k if I go full bore damage with Sharpshooter, Archery, and the damage boost for no foes close by (I don't use the last). Yesterday, I got a new ring and my max DPR set itself at just over 50k. I have an 831 xbow with +315 Dex and +82 Vitality, +356 heal on hit.
I do have another xbow with +29 to crits and a socket (so, up to +109 crits), but with no vitality or heal on hit, I don't use it. It would easily get over 70k, but I wouldn't be healing enough to make use of it.
My default configuration right now is:
Cinder Trail Vault
Preparation: 60% Heal
Healing Sentry
Bat Companion
Cinder Arrow
Web Shot.
For general use, I can't really find a better one. Cinder Arrow is the best repeat damage over time for no cost, web shot makes it hard for enemies to get to me which freezes them over the Cinder Trail to take more damage, and lets me fully unload on them.
I could probably change the sentry from healing to Guardian, and given the amounts of damage stuff does, that wouldn't be a bad idea. Healing, however, is more useful out of combat and on restoring stuff to full.
====
I tried the tanking Ghom method, but it doesn't work with a normal crossbow and quiver...he does too much damage, and the rate of fire doesn't work with a slower crossbow. My poison resist was probably a little low, too...but he chomped me three times, and that was it.
==============
Coffee, I can honestly say that loot is pretty much the same, except you don't get a chance to put on your +magic item find when opening chests!
The difference is, co-op is much faster. A fight you might slog through in twenty minutes solo might take 5, 3, or 1 with a group. The ability to die and then transport right back next to someone in the fight can save a lot of time not having to reslog over ground. Now, the foes take a lot more to kill individually...but the nice thing about group is, there's no overkill. Crap has 4x normal hit points...you never waste the extra 10k in damage on something until that very last hit. So damage is more efficient, there's multiple vectors slowing down the enemy, multiple sources of continuous damage flying in, and someone to take up the slack if you fall.
If you don't have the best gear, join a co-op game and just contribute the best you can. A single run through Act 3 should net you at least a few keepers, and just keep slowly upgrading.
I got two interesting drops last night.
The first was a 1091 pt staff, with magic missile +9%! Cool, right? Except it had Str adn vit mods, not intelligence. I sighed.
I also got a legendary 840 dmg electric dagger, that has a 31% chance to throw a cold orb with every strike...no damage rating attached to it. +6% attack speed, other minor quibbles. It sure looks cool in inventory, I'll have to try it out.
==Aelryinth
dumb question. If my weapons have abilities that are activated with use does that count if I'm casting or just physically hitting with a dagger (for example).
Took my first tentative steps into Inferno yesterday. Got all the up to and through Leoric and only died to two different elite packs. In both cases, it would have been a different story if we hadn't been clumped in a tiny hallway. One of the packs was Arcane Enchanted and Frozen, and the freeze caught me right as my serenity wore off, so I had no way to shake it off. While frozen, 4 different arcane beams spawned adjacent to me and fried me immediately.
The other death was similar, except I got trapped in a jail on top of a plague pool and a desecrate pool. And because I was just around the corner of a hall, my attempts to warp-lightning fist out failed thanks to the wall of the dungeon.
Despite that, I plowed through nearly everything.
I'm up to 21k life, 18k dps, 60% damage reduction and 65% reduction from resistances. Both fist weapons have 2.x% life steal, which I think the game just adds together because my life steal stat under my details button is 5.4%
It took some time to wear Leoric down, but it was a cake walk for my monk. I healed damage faster from punching him than he could cause with his terribly slow swings.
The Nephalem Valor buff is a brilliant idea. It really does drive you to keep pushing onward when you've 5 stacks on that thing.
Force armor with the glyph that limits maximum enemy damage to a percentage of your life is FANTASTIC! Just saying.
That was pretty much my reaction when I found out about it.
Combine with Diamond SKin and you can do monstrous amounts of tanking.
Someone else pointed out that with the skill to reduce cooldowns, you can basically diamond skin with only one second gaps in between.
I used to run storm armor with primsatic diamond skin to reduce channelling costs so I could let loose some really, really long term disintegration effects. welllllll, that doesn't work in Hell...you need to bring a lot of damage fast, and then take your medicine as you set up for it again.
I wish Meteor went off as fast as the witch docter acid belch did. :/ Unless you've some way of freezing foes in place at a distance, it just gets less and less useful as you level. Still, I see it all the time in group play...powerful AoE's are just that useful. Frost Nova, wham wham wham, repeat...
Blizzard seems to be the most useful spell for mages in group play. Freezing, damage and slowdown all in one, over a large area and several seconds? Yes, please!
==Aelryinth
Ive taken to using offensive powers that travel like Arcane orb, so that I don't have to completely stand still. It's not the most damage, but at least i don't have to stay put while I am casting.
dumb question. If my weapons have abilities that are activated with use does that count if I'm casting or just physically hitting with a dagger (for example).
All weapons effects are working on all your attacks, however they are resolved.
For instance, I get Heal on Hit when something smacks into my CInder Trail. As Dal pointed out, he's dual wielding. But he gets the +Heal from BOTH weapons, even though he's only hitting with one at a time.
The exception might be companion creatures. I don't think you get much healing from, say, a Mystic Ally or a Sentry (I think they noted that in the last update), that you do from direct use of your abilities. I'm also not sure how much you get from a channelling effect over time. Rapid fire, for instance, is basically triple rate of fire...one push of a button is 3 shots. By visualization, I should be getting 1k+ in life back per second shooting something...I don't think that happens. What do you do from burns and bleeds, which are basically continuous streams of damage? (It's always fun watching the blur of little red numbers when you Cinder Arrow something with Reflect Damage as it burns up)
I'll also note for you that Reflect Damage, or the Succubus Curse, work the same way, but in reverse. Just last night, I was hit with a Succubus Curse as I completed a Cinder Trail. Three things walked across it. I watched 40k of life just evaporate, and the boss monsters scrambling across it didn't even die! :)
==Aelryinth
I use the Seeking magic missle, so I never miss a target, and Chaos Nexus Disintegration, which fragments into secondary beams.
I've found that the DoT of Disintegration tends to be much better then other damage sources, you can pick out something to kill (like, say, them bloody Fallen Shamans), and the little beams do side damage that's able to take care of little things that surround you, or reduces them to a cursory swipe with the main beam.
AND...if the opponent is big enough, one, possibly even two of the smaller beams will 'piggyback' onto the main one for taking down a large foe, resulting in 150 or 200% normal damage!
Dunno if I'd use it in group play, AoE's become VERY important there, you tend to let DH's handle the focused damage.
==Aelryinth
Took my first tentative steps into Inferno yesterday. Got all the up to and through Leoric and only died to two different elite packs. In both cases, it would have been a different story if we hadn't been clumped in a tiny hallway. One of the packs was Arcane Enchanted and Frozen, and the freeze caught me right as my serenity wore off, so I had no way to shake it off. While frozen, 4 different arcane beams spawned adjacent to me and fried me immediately.
The other death was similar, except I got trapped in a jail on top of a plague pool and a desecrate pool. And because I was just around the corner of a hall, my attempts to warp-lightning fist out failed thanks to the wall of the dungeon.
Despite that, I plowed through nearly everything.
I'm up to 21k life, 18k dps, 60% damage reduction and 65% reduction from resistances. Both fist weapons have 2.x% life steal, which I think the game just adds together because my life steal stat under my details button is 5.4%
It took some time to wear Leoric down, but it was a cake walk for my monk. I healed damage faster from punching him than he could cause with his terribly slow swings.
The Nephalem Valor buff is a brilliant idea. It really does drive you to keep pushing onward when you've 5 stacks on that thing.
The monk is by far the easiest class to play once set up. Takes the least amount of damage, and heals itself the fastest.
ANd yes, Valor does tend to want to make you go go go. That's the entire driving force behind co-op...find and kill the elites, find the chests, kill anything in the way.
Note that 5.4% of 18k dps is only 900/second. You'd generate a lot more life with Heal on Hit, instead of Life Steal. For instance, an ultimate Amethyst socket with 300 heal on hit might match that with just ONE weapon. It becomes important at later levels, so start looking for sockets and preferably big +Heal on Hit weapons. heal on hit also sprogs even if you're doing low damage...with Life Steal, if you ain't doing big damage, it sucks, which means Heal on hit is better if you need to turtle and tank with lots of hit points instead of high Dex.
If only it weren't so hard to do them damn treasure goblins. They are just so hard to freaking kill in group play.
You'll need more health for Act 3, but that amount can get you through Act 2. You'll probably need to buff it for Belial is all.
=+Aelryinth
Well, got my Wizard to Ghom on Inferno, but at least I feel I have a nice strategy for beating him. I'm buying as much gear with Health Regeneration and Poision resistance, so I can basically just run from him and let Hydra finish him off. This is the strategy I used on the last three difficulty levels, except now the poison clouds kill you in about 4 seconds. With the regeneration and resistance, it changes it to about 12 seconds, which is huge. I got closer to beating him than I have yet (about 1/8 of his life left), but made a few missteps at the end. Still, I feel like I have a way to beat him, which I didn't until now.
Note that 5.4% of 18k dps is only 900/second. You'd generate a lot more life with Heal on Hit, instead of Life Steal. For instance, an ultimate Amethyst socket with 300 heal on hit might match that with just ONE weapon. It becomes important at later levels, so start looking for sockets and preferably big +Heal on Hit weapons. heal on hit also sprogs even if you're doing low damage...with Life Steal, if you ain't doing big...
I've been keeping an eye out for Life on Hit with big numbers on the hits for just these reasons - but I haven't found any yet that are worth keeping.
I'm hoping by the time I get through Act I that's I'll at least have found 1 suitable weapon that gives me average damage, dex, and a decent life on hit figure.
I'm also finding that I need WAY MORE of those books of secrets than I have. I go through them so stinking fast and Covetous and Haedrig aren't even maxed out yet!
Oh, don't worry about the Tomes. You're soon going to have tons, unless you start crafting items...and since items max at level 62, and you want 63, and cost a boatload of gold, you're soon going to have them coming out your ears.
My biggest expense is GOLD, not Tomes. Trying to craft uber gems takes a lot of gold. I have like 434 Tomes, and rising. I just got back to a million gold after making TWO Ruby Stars. I don't salvage uniques for the Smith, although he's maxed out in levels, AND I've found like 5 books for him. I doubt he'll give me anything better then what I have, and I've pretty much had enough of trying to keep up with gold generation on more then one front.
What is really going to irritate you is all those books from Hell? You're going to run out of them, and there's no replacement in Inferno...but square gems drop all the time. No way to combine them up once you run out.
that last combine to get a +42 gem? 120k. The three gems needed to make it? 30k each. The three gems needed to make those? 10k each. The three gems needed to make THOSE?
..you see where I'm going with this.
I have no money to buy gear. I'm converting gemstones!...even as I'm trying to move away from Gemstone gear.
I'm such a sucker.
==Aelryinth
The way I see it with gems, they are what your level 60 can still contribute to the new character you make. I popped a +34 STR gem into my 11th level Barbarian's socketed ring and oh my. What. A. Difference!
Oh, yeah, gems are way cool for noobs. You get your first socketed weapons at level 15, and popping a gem in those easily doubles your damage.
The rings, armor, etc are just gravy after that. I actually have a set of armor and weapons for characters all the way up to level 32, and socketed stuff is a part of that.
You know you can still find single socket rings as level 55 gear? Meh.
However, at high level, a socket for a gem is line that could be used on a weapon for something better, and +16 damage isn't worth much...the only damage one viable is the green for the huge crit jump, because 300 heal on hit is definitely below what you can get on a weapon.
That gem socket is REALLY nice if you play a DH, because of the elevating crit chance skill, however..
If you are capable of surviving in INferno with a group, your best solo play is the map with Khul's body in it. Particularly the Assassin's Lair dungeon, which has five elites in it all by itself. Clear the map, then clear the dungeons, and you've done a good day's work.
If you go in Khul's lair, the three dungeons have 6 or 7 elites between them, too.
I probably got most of my routine gear on that map, and you get a lot of gold, too.
==Aelryinth
Saw a guy using a wizard tank build last night.
He had a sword with +877 Heal on hit, two other items adding about another 400, and spammed the triple-burst frost Nova, with diamond skin as a smoker between cool downs.
He tanked Azmodan and the spider lady, the former while standing on the Fires of Hell floor (our first run, he ended up standing on 3 of them and the combined damage overwhelmed him).
He wasn't doing mega damage, but they simply could not bring him down. He just used Spectral Blade for routine attacks and unless he was surrounded by stuff doing a lot of damage, he just wouldn't go down.
Impressive!
He said he wanted to get a better heal on hit sword that had crit Bonus, but said it would cost him 100 million gold. I kinda pursed my lips at that...
I got two legendary items last night. One was a 2h Doom Mace that would be awesome, except it's only 1039 damage. The thing is just perfect for 2h use otherwise. Argh.
The other was a voodoo mask which, while nice to look at, didn't really impress me.
I made level 17. There's some guys almost to 30 as of yesterday, dunno how they do it...must play 16 hours a day. I wonder if they realize that with 100 levels, those later levels are just going to take hours and hours of play each? heh. I'm just happy with my +51% magic find, and hoping for better and better gear. It's like carrying around 2 valor stacks all the time. I can get to +294% magic find with 5 stacks and putting on my magic find gear (chests only, basically).
==Aelryinth
I am unable to play... battle net is being difficult with me for no reason I can figure out.
Hopefully I get get this resolved monday or I may be demanding a refund.
Made 18 on DH.
ho hum. I got my first 1000+ crossbow. Of course, it had no dex mod and no bonus damage, and was heal on kill.
i got ANOTHER flawless star ruby book! Aaargh. Was hoping for Amethyst.
Aranna, I had a log in problem two days ago, too. They said they detected a difference in my log in patterns, and insisted I got thorugh security questions and change my password.
Wonder if someone was going after account ID's on them?
At the end there, I was the missile guy with a monk and two barbs, today. that was pretty good, decent teamwork. I popped down the turrets to help them tank, cinder trailed here and there, got any health globes in weird areas, adn of course dumped tons of damage into stuff they were tanking. Good times!
It was hugely useful on Azmodan.I stood back and emptied my Hatred with Rapid Fire, they were all tanking him inside the turret's area, but I dealt out so much more damage between myself and the turret that when it came time to stain the floor, he went after me...which let them keep right on tanking! I just ran around until the fires went away, came back and emptied more Hate into him.
Fun, fun.
The first party I was with were complete idiots. First, they bypassed the first signal fire in Act 3, and I had to take it out myself. Secondly, they ignored the barracks, the dungeon right by the outside gates, AND they ignored a dungeon on the battlefield, AND only covered half the map before heading up the bridge to clear out half of that battlefield before suddenly logging out and leaving me alone.
That was...interesting.
It was still a public game, so when I hit Tyreal, intending to drag him along and complete the other dungeons behind me, zing! More people started logging in. we went back and cleared the ice dungeon, at least.
==Aelryinth
Finally took down Ghom with my Wizard on Inferno. It took a bit to stockpile enough alternate gear with fast healing and poison resistance versus what I've been using to get past him. The fight probably took about ten minutes, which is a long time for that game. Still, with Archon, I could almost tank him. I kept all my gear from that endeavor, so if anyone's playing a Wizard and needs to get past that SOB, drop me a line. Now to have fun with the game again! (Demon Hunter's vs. Ghom's another story... Gonna take a bit to repeat what I just did with a different character.)
Yeah, I think they redid the heal on hit stuff with sentry, too, not sure it procs as much for you (or against you).
Had a situation last night that got me thinking. Level 25 Barb with the party, all go go go. No stopping to heal, only looting rares, and only wanting to fight elites, as that was where the xp was. So he's raging out ahead of hte party, bypassing and ignoring a lot of the stuff on the way, just looking for elites. Outdistancing everyone, 'finding' the elites for us so we are supposed to just recall to him and kill them, or fall further and further behind.
I didn't particularly like that style of play, but I could see where it comes from, and that's how he likely made 25...elites are worth a ton more then normal monsters, so wasting time on little guys wasn't worth it...his idea was to maximize his time going from elite to elite to boss kill for loot to elite, rinse and repeat, and we were kinda just around for the ride and to take care of tail spawns for him.
It works great when you're near invulnerable and decked out in great gear from all levels. For the rest of us, not so much. Kind of a total pain in the ass when he's in an elite spawn whirlwinding through the pack and we're getting boffed by all the normal spawns he's dragged after him. :P
In contrast, my run before that was all teamwork. We'd wait up for someone lagging behind to catch up so we hit portals and spawns as a group, we'd head off and sell before boss fights, gang up on individuals to take them down and thin out the herd with top speed, etc. It was fun playing with those guys. We went everywhere and looted everything, even though from the meta point there wasn't a lot of point to doing so, as you weren't likely to get good anything from lesser chests or monster spawns.
meh.
No keeper gear last night. That was probably the biggest bummer. I got some alternate gear for special circumstances, but no real keeper gear.
I got an extra Flawless Star Ruby book now. heh.
===Aelryinth
Yeah, I think they redid the heal on hit stuff with sentry, too, not sure it procs as much for you (or against you).
Had a situation last night that got me thinking. Level 25 Barb with the party, all go go go. No stopping to heal, only looting rares, and only wanting to fight elites, as that was where the xp was. So he's raging out ahead of hte party, bypassing and ignoring a lot of the stuff on the way, just looking for elites. Outdistancing everyone, 'finding' the elites for us so we are supposed to just recall to him and kill them, or fall further and further behind.
I didn't particularly like that style of play, but I could see where it comes from, and that's how he likely made 25...elites are worth a ton more then normal monsters, so wasting time on little guys wasn't worth it...his idea was to maximize his time going from elite to elite to boss kill for loot to elite, rinse and repeat, and we were kinda just around for the ride and to take care of tail spawns for him.
It works great when you're near invulnerable and decked out in great gear from all levels. For the rest of us, not so much. Kind of a total pain in the ass when he's in an elite spawn whirlwinding through the pack and we're getting boffed by all the normal spawns he's dragged after him. :P
I'd just hang out and collect xp. In town or just on the edges if necessary.
Ran into another Whirlwind Barbarian again.
They use the 'whirlwind trail' combined with Wrath of the Berzerker, zip in circles all around an enemy and stack up multiple tornadoes on top. The concentrated damage stacking up is incredible.
Finally went through last night and looked at the visual effects of EVERY Demon Hand technique. Ah, ha, Evasive Fire is where the Shotgun effect comes from!
I'm going to try group with Cluster Arrow and Multishot and see if they work out better. A DH I was with last night pointed out the Grievous Wound Impale doubled your crit damage, which could easily mean 100k+ crits (highest I've seen of mine is in the 60k range). He also used Steady Aim instead of Brooding, using SHadow Power to get back health when required.
Different play styles. Got to get my crit damage up and put the hurting on things! It turns out that without Sharpshooter really upping crit chances, my DPS is in the 19k range.
I really gotta get a better crossbow.
Oh, and I checked out the top end Legendary weapons for a DH. Turns out they all are in the 1200 DPS range, go figure.
==Aelryinth
I'm leveling my Witchdoctor. The minions keep enemies away long enough to use spells. It's much more effective thus far than my mage was at the same level.
Yeah, WD minions do a good job of keeping the attention of bad guys. Then you dump a lot of Acid Vomit on them, and chuff a few Darts, and have zombie hands grasping them from the afterlife to slow them down, and it works pretty well.
One of these days I'm going to try that Drain Power where you spike your Intelligence and get off some really massive spell on an enemy.
==Aelryinth
Oh man - I got my butt handed to me last night by two groups of champions that were unfortunately close together and chased me in tandem. Both sets had fire chains and extra fast. The lacuni batch were plagued and arcane, and the fallen batch had wallers and mortar. It was ugly.
They took me out 3 times before I was finally able to kill them all. I can only imagine how tough some of the later end-game stuff can be in light of that.
---
I saw a Demon Hunter last night with DPS up at 170,000! It was obscene - all his gear boosted either crit damage, crit chance, or both. He was laughing about taking out the Butcher, because of the Butcher's damage reflection. This guy claimed that he could basically one shot ol' Fresh Meat, but he had to be standing in an opposite corner so that all three of his arrows would be in the air before the first one hit. The second arrow would kill the Demon Hunter from the damage reflection and the third would take out the Butcher.
Not sure if he was making it up or not, but it seemed funny enough to share. =P
Yeah, I've seen crit builds that can do that. Actually, I believe you can reach 200k. The easiest build to do this with is a normal crossbow, since Archery gives it +50% crits. The most consistent build is the Hand Crossbow, because Archery sets base Crit chance to 10%, and it's fairly easy to get the Crit chance to 30-50%.
I bit the bullet and spent 2 mil for a 1k +150 Dex, +120 Vita, +756 Heal on Hit, +62% crit crossbow.
My base damage is now about 22k, but my average with crit is now 58k...and that's without Steady Aim, mind you.
I was talking with another DH, and decided to redo some of my base effects and see how they worked.Of particular interest was Impale, Greivous wounds, which doubles the damage if you crit.
Weeeeeelll, ahem, I was getting fairly consistent crits of 160-170k last night using Impale for opening shots. Normal shots with Hungering Arrows were in the 50-60k range.
I also gave the Hungering Arrow +70% per penetration a try. It didn't seem as consistent about dealing damage as Cinder Arrow, but when it went off, it went off big and really hurt. A crit on a penetration would be monstrous.
Also went to using Multishot over using Sentry. Whoa, did that make a difference in speed of clearing rooms.
I saw the result going through the pre-Ghom in Act III...stuff was simply dying a lot faster then before with the extra 4k or so base damage, and 10k or so crit damage. I can only imagine how big it can be with the right gear!
I'll note for everyone that looting everything everywhere and selling, I made about 350k pre-Ghom in Act III, but it took me about 2 hours.
I made about the same amount of money clearing the Desolate Sands, and died twice. I even got a Flawless Star Emerald book for my jeweller out of it. Assassin's Lair has like 5 or 6 Elites in it, and they died much more quickly then before. Emeralds are the most in demand, because of the +% burst ability...the three highest tiers are +80,90 and +100% to crit damage.
----------------
Just in case you want to know, it will cost you 1.6 MILLION gold to make a single Flawless Star. That's why they sell for 2 mil gp...100k profit after the 15% auction house charge.
And that's why it's 6 mil for the high demand next rank up, which takes 3 flawless, and why its 17 mil for the highest tier of gems, which takes three of those.
Ugh.
How these guys make a million an hour of play I have no clue, unless it's just finding uber gear they can post for sale.
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Made level 60 (20) last night, I can put my face on my banner.
I can pretty much confirm that your goal is to kill elites. They give you considerably more xp then normal creatures. Your job is to power through normal creatures and to find elites. You want to race along from one elite encounter to the next in minimum time. So what you are trying to do is optimize for elite encounters...DH's for damage output, monks for uber tanking, Barbs for whirlwind tornados, and so forth.
IF I could arrange another 400 Dex without my Resist All suffering, I'd be in pretty good shape!
===Aelryinth
Dal, as your gear improves, it won't be as much of an issue.
I, um, had the same thing happen last night. In my case it was Elite Fallen overlords and Lacuni. And, their thirty or so friends I tumbled through running away.
They ran over my Cinder Trails and died remarkably quickly. All of them. I had to pop a couple of them off, but I can remember at one time running around for 5-10 minutes getting away from double spawns of elites outside.
Just wait until your gear improves, and you'll be doing the same.
Actually, if you can use that spell that mind-sucks your enemies for a huge Int bonus, and then just unload on them with ACid Vomit, I'll think you'll see much the same.
------
Btw, +60% gold and magic find, haven't noticed a major difference in loot...maybe the bonuses are a little higher then before? I see the dif when Valor stacks hit...5 stacks means elites drop at least 3 yellows, sometimes 5 or 6.
==Aelryinth
Another run ahead doofus in public play last night. Not so much an issue, except they kept leaving elites behind. As soon as I caught what they were doing, they left.
It was like they only wanted to play the first two levels of the towers in Act 3, reap the elites, leave us behind. Totally idiotic. Do you make extra xp if you kill group play elites alone? It's like that's what they were trying to do.
==Aelryinth
Bwahahah.
That Flawless Star book /Emerald I got? That was actually for a Radiant Star...the next level up.
And I can't use it because I don't have the Flawless Star trained on Emerald. That book is only 1.7 mil in auction.
LOL. I actually had 3 gems ready to agglomerate to the next level, and found out what really happened.
==Aelryinth
Good experience in public game last night :)
Well, it started off with a barb who just wanted to clear the outside Maps and head for the bridges in Act 3, the rest of us worked on the barracks. He did come around as we pounded through the place killing our elites and getting to the chest at the bottom.
So, no go. But eventually two guys dropped out, me and another DH ended up with a monk tank who was more then happy to occupy the attention of bad guys while we shot them full of holes. Went all the way through the Crater and killed Azmodan, had a very fun time. Way too many phase beast elites, however!
My biggest crit so far is 180k. Grievous Impale high end. Didn't kill the target :P. I have to get more Dex + Crit bonus gear. Still, significantly better then before.
I levelled and the +3 points of dex was worth over 100 pts of DPS! hah.
I'm wearing a socketed helm for the +25% xp bonus. I should probably buy one with a Dex mod attached and get my damage up higher. Gotta have that socket...and I could always swap it out for a +life gem if I needed it.
I'm not sure which is better for Hungering Arrow...the Cinder Arrow or the one that gives +70% per penetration. I don't know if Cinder Arrow is giving +35% dmage, divided up over 3 seconds, OR +35% dmg per second, for 3 seconds. Makes a difference.
Got a 1000 pt one handed weapon, finally, but it's a mage weapon...the flaming mace thing that grants bonuses to fire magic. I'll probably have to bite the bullet and give it to my mage, eventually. I got a fire axe legendary with some nice bonuses...it's now on my Templar when I solo play, helping keep him alive with the +800 heal on hit. He did a nice job tanking and blocking a bunch of elite Siege beasts from getting through a door, allowing me to plink them to death. Most impressive.
So, can anyone clarify for me on Cinder Arrow? is it +35% burn damage for each of 3 seconds, or OVER 3 seconds?
The first method means avg dmg/shot is about 300%. The second is about 210, barely better then the 50% penetration shot.
I'm not sure on the math for the +70%...but what I can figure is that it seems to get a little bit more then +200% base damage, too.
I like the CInder arrow because of the stacking bleed/burst, but I may have to go to the 50% penetration, because it gives me more shots at crits...and crits is where I make my real damage. I've a better shot at 4 hits, and crit chances with each, with the 50% Hungering Arrow, then I do for 3 shots with the Cinder arrow.
Mutlishot comes in useful in solo play, but the damage is kind of low for co-op. I'll probably try out the rocket cluster arrow my next run through, see what happens. Or maybe go the discipline regen version for some synergy.
===
Another milestone...saw my first weapon/item with a +400 ability modifier on it. It was a 588ish damage two hander with a +334 Str mod and a +412 Vit mod. Great mods, lousy weapon. What a waste.
==Aelryinth
==Aelryinth
I am beginning to feel cursed.
My account issues are cleared up and I can play again... but now I keep getting a complete computer lockup when I play. It looks like it's a graphics issue since I frequently get flash player lockups now too. But why now? The computer has run flawlessly up till now...
Whoa mamma pajama. I don't know what switch got flipped, but as soon as I got to the Desolate Sands and started looking for Kulle's blood... I just die constantly now whenever there are any elites or champions. To the point where I ran out of money from having to repair my stuff so much.
Irritating!
So I bounced back to Act I and figure I'll blitz through Dungeon just outside of the Butcher's room a bunch to make some money and see if I can't score a couple of <1 minute deals on the AH to up my survivability.
Really not sure what happened though. I have more than 30k health, my DPS is just north of 20k and my lowest resistance is 64%. My dude's numbers look good, but man - I was dying A LOT.
Took me a bit, but I finally got through Ghom with the DH. Took a good combination of Health Regeneration (about 2k), Poison Resistance (about 1000) and high DPS (32,000 before crits). Still it was VERY challenging and took me about five tries.
I've noticed that Elites aren't the only way to spike experience for Paragon levels; Massacre, Destruction, and that other bonus for killing multiple enemies with one shot has been quickly advancing my level. I'm at paragon level 11, playing about the same amount of time as my Wizard who's only paragon level 4. Because of Multishot, Evasive Fire, and Cinder Trail, it's easy for me to get Massacre bonuses. I think the number it lists for bonus XP is some sort of percentage bonus to what you just killed, not a flat bonus like I always assumed.
Act 3 Inferno is a chore for my wizard, a fun challenge for my DH. Ghom was the biggest obstacle for a time, then it became Cydaea. They changed something on her; now, her spiders seem like they do a lot more damage and have "reach". My wizard got stopped after about ten tries until he utilized some of the same strategy that he did against Ghom. Improved Archon was invaluable for this. The resistance bonus you gain on top of Energy Armor lets you survive most of what she can throw at you, and the spiderlings actually help extend the duration when you kill them. This one skill is what won me the fight, which is strange because its one I hardly ever use. (usually use Mirror Image combined with Illusionist). I have to get my DH to her, but am worried because he's doesn't have nearly the resistances of my Wizard.
My Wizard just got to Act IV, and has been stopped cold by Iskatu. Too many enemies, too much damage. I'm gonna have to think out a way to get past him. I'm not even sure how far down I've gotten him since he disappears once no enemies are around.
His health bar should appear in the middle of the screen, as can his position.
I'm guessing you have to go tank mage...force armor, prismatic skin, frost nova spam, blizzard, spectral blade, and lots of life on hit and heal on hit to stay alive. The shadows coming in should actually help you stay alive by giving you additional health when you AoE.
The tank mages in group play all seem to use that combo, and about the only thing which can bring them down is ranged elites or getting swarmed by elite phase demons. Those guys are just sick with the damage they do.
==Aelryinth
Whoa mamma pajama. I don't know what switch got flipped, but as soon as I got to the Desolate Sands and started looking for Kulle's blood... I just die constantly now whenever there are any elites or champions. To the point where I ran out of money from having to repair my stuff so much.
Irritating!
So I bounced back to Act I and figure I'll blitz through Dungeon just outside of the Butcher's room a bunch to make some money and see if I can't score a couple of <1 minute deals on the AH to up my survivability.
Really not sure what happened though. I have more than 30k health, my DPS is just north of 20k and my lowest resistance is 64%. My dude's numbers look good, but man - I was dying A LOT.
Dal, what's your heal on hit?
If you're playing a tank build, you need to be able to get 1-2k of health restored per second minimum to tank higher level elites. Otherwise, they are just going to overwhelm your defenses.
The tank Monk last night told me he got back 3500 health per second. His DPS totally blew, something like 10k/sec, but he was really, really hard to take down. Swarming phase beasts and multiple ranged attacks combined with desecration and arcane turrets were about it. He'd stand there and slug it out with just about anything.
==Aelryinth
I am beginning to feel cursed.
My account issues are cleared up and I can play again... but now I keep getting a complete computer lockup when I play. It looks like it's a graphics issue since I frequently get flash player lockups now too. But why now? The computer has run flawlessly up till now...
Try updating your graphic drivers?
I actually bought a new computer just so I could have the latest and best when Diablo came out. it's not uber top of the line, but it's higher then spec.
Well, when multiple spell effects start going off on AoE's in group play, I still get graphics lag. Very annoying!
==Aelryinth
wELL, hit a couple milestones today.
I have now soloed Act III. I soloed Ghom today, more on a lark then anything...and without switching up my configuration. The key was sticking close to his existing gas clouds so he didn't blanket everything, and cinder clouding him down bit by bit, with occasional sniping. A turret would simply have sped things up a bit.
I first tried soloing the spider lady yesterday, and died with her having 10% life...ran out of healing and the little spiders got me. I was a bit more careful today, and like ghom, I decided that relying on archery to kill her was dumb, and mostly cinder trailed her dead, too.
I then soloed the Siegebreaker at the end of the bridge, which I hadn't done yet, either.
I am not yet to the point where I can truly farm Act III for gold. I make a lot more money solo then in group...because in group, I don't pick up as much stuff, and tend to die a lot more. Up through the bridge, I blew at least 100k on repair bills, and that's simply no good.
I might have to buy a Goldskin for gold farming Act II. The extra money would be helpful! I haven't truly gone through the whole Act, but I know I can do the desolate wastes and die once, maybe twice, and that generates a lot more gold.
Hmm. I haven't been to the fairytale land on Inferno. I wonder how the gold drops there?
I wonder if any of you saw the post where the guy actually collected 1,000 peices of level 63 rares, and then recorded ID'ing them. Out of the first 500, he got one keeper...a spear!
1k level 63's means at least 5 times that in 62's, and then 10x that in normal magic and more. Ouch. That's a little too rare, you know?
And I'm never going to catch up on gold to those guys who got to Inferno quick and have been playing it since week 1. 200 mil gp? it's to laugh. I've picked up a mere 15 million off the ground, and I've got 2.4 mil saved up...the rest has been spent away, and that includes all the magic items.
Oh, and in case you didn't know, don't bother salvaging rares for exquisite essence. The commodity price of them is below 1k, and all 60+ rares sell for over 1000. Might as well send them to the shop.
My best legendaries right now are a Ring of Bul=Kathos, which my barb is wearing, and some one hander mace he's using that's a base 1k in damage. The best looking one is a fire axe that boosts all fire magic 25%, but base 800 damage and no int bonus means my Templar is using it for the 620 Heal on Hit, which is really helping him tank.
I put a dagger that can shoot a cold orb on my wizardess...the base damage is over 800, but I don't know how much damage the cold orb does. It's a very bright lightning weapon.
I am now paragon 23 and slogging along. I don't seem to die as much, as since they are cutting the damage of Inferno creatures down by 25% or so, and nerfing the high end defenses of some other classes, that should really help my survivability.
They are going to be making some positive changes to DH's! The spider, wolf and boar are going to become actual pets that can tank for you, and you will be able to put out more then one sentry on the ground! If you've the skill Custom Engineering, you'll actually be able to put out three of them! That'll just be too awesome.
What is really annoying is that the cost to repair goes right up along with your magic/gold find...3%/level. Everytime I die now is ~4400 gold. When I hit the 'repair' warning, it's 30k. That comes in nasty in group play, when you hit some tough elites that just start chainkilling everyone because they wipe us faster then we can go through their enhanced hit points. I find it much easier killing elites solo then I do in groups, unless I get one of those super tricked out guys tanking for us and doing all the work.
==Aelryinth
I need some feedback.
Specifically, I need you to test and see if your heal on hit actually procs off your area hits.
I was using Multishot, which is a 30 degree cone, and which I was confident should make me unkillable while using it, as my crossbow is +762 life heal on hit.
Well. I slammed four volleys into a group of ten skeletons, and my health bar barely moved. I should have gotten back like 28k life...and they were all melee and moving at me, not attacking.
So, anyone else here having the same experience?
Furthermore, do you get life back off pets and stuff (mystic ally, sentry turrets, etc) if you've a heal on hit, or a life drain weapon?
==Aelryinth
I think it may vary on what life-gain is being used. The few weapons and gear I've used with 'life drain' on them don't really seem to provide enough healing to tank versus some of the abilities that duplicate that, like "Shadow Power". Using that ability, I've been able to recharge the health within seconds. But as to your original question, I'm not sure, but I think it only gives life gain to a much lesser degree on spread attacks versus singular shots. I'm thinking specifically of Impaling Shot versus Multishot, and the fact that the former seems to refill at least a 6th of my health when using it with Shadow Power. Multishot used the same way seems to provide the same health bonus (not nearly as much as Impaling Shot), no matter how many enemies I strike. Its hard to tell because there's no displayable way of showing health gain from that method. Out of all the methods of life gaining, I've honestly found that enough gear with 'Health Regeneration' allows me to focus more on dealing damage and less about using my skills just for that.
Yes, same thing with Rapid Fire. I can see each of the seperate shots, I think there's three shots to one normal, but health regain is extremely slow.
I'm not sure if I get health back when a Hungering Shot penetrates and hits a target, either.
As for health regen, the Templar used to take care of that for me, but now Brooding gives 1% life/second, which is 400+, and that takes care of a lot of out of combat healing. I tend to use Preparation and Brooding for my healing, with the Heal on Hit on my crossbow supplementing, and potions as backup. Shadow Power's limitation that you have to be fighting something means it is not useful out of combat, and in combat is vulnerable to position and tankability, as well as short duration and requiring limited movement.
I'll note to you that you have the option of turning 'health numbers' on. This will show you the size of your hits on enemies, as well as the amount of damage they are doing to you, and the amount you are healing. It's really funny when you start doing burn/bleed damage to something with reflect damage, as dozens of little numbers a second are treading across your screen.
Also, I've noted that semi-decent regeneration is the best way to deal with Reflect Damage. BUnches of DH's in group games have real problems with Reflect Damage.
==Aelryinth
I started a hardcore demon hunter the other night. It's a whole new level of scary! I accidently triggered two groups of champions last night in the Fields of Misery in Act I while looking for the Khazra Den. 1 group of champion leapers and a champion group of those gigantic charging super-oxen.
I don't think anything has been more tense in the game for me as that fight. Yowza.
Hardcore would be too tense for me. Make sure you gear up on the Auction House!
I'd recommend the Monk or Witch Docter for ease of survivability...kudos for making a tough choice with a DH.
-----------------------
I bit the bullet and yesterday got my Witch Hunter to 60. OMG, for those of you not in the know...you can easily outfit anyone playing Hell with Inferno level gear that has Lower Level Wield Requirements.
Let me tell you, starting at level 50 with a 668 damage bow with -14 to level req, I basically Acid Vomited my way through every Act. Only elites could withstand more then two of those at 12k damage.
I bought exactly two items going into Act 3...a -2 Level req Ring and Mojo. My damage is 16k going through Act 3.
I have walked over every boss. The only challenge was Belial, because of the poison geysers and having to avoid them, but he died before he got off his second series. I have died exactly three times, and every one was to Desecrate...once per Act. Act I, I wasn't paying attention, and only noticed it too late to move. The second time I was both Walled and Jailed as it roasted me. The last time I was Chain Frozen and burned to death while frozen.
Otherwise, it hasn't even been close. I didn't even change ANY of my skills up until Belial, and really I didn't have to even then.
I stomped on Ikazu in Heaven, he never touched me, and I'll finish up Hell and qualify him for Inferno tonight.
I made level 60 in the underfort in Act 3, I've been using a +21% xp Ruby to help accelerate the leveling. I should have all the helpers to 60 before I'm done.
Being able to clear out my sub-60 level gear has freed up a bit of room in my cache.
He doesn't have Inferno level gear, especially his Resists...but he's doing a lot of damage, and that's what his pets are for.
So, yeah, those of you looking to level up a another character...you can probably get a full set of level 60 gear usable by a level 50 without much problem.
------------------
BTW, Dal, there's a definite increase in toughness of Opponents as soon as you go after Kule's blood. The first part of Act 2 isn't all that different from Act I. But everything gets a damage and HP upgrade as soon as you start on the second part. I had to go from a high Dex build back to more Resistances as I started getting closer to dying on Inferno level with my DH. So, yes, you're starting to get a feel of what Act 3 is going to be like.
If you can make it through Desolate Sands and every dungeon without dying, you may be ready for exposure to Act III. Join a group game, kill Belial, register for Act III, and play a couple group games. Dying costs money, but the ease of getting back into a fight makes it worthwhile. Just realize that you're going to be at negative cash value for a while...stuff just has so much life to punch through in group mode. It's actually easier for me to adventure in solo mode...I don't die anywhere near as much...but when I do, that long slog back to where I died is VERY annoying...
==Aelryinth
Newest obstacle for my DH on Inferno is Rakanoth.. He basically has that teleport attack that one-shots you if you move too far away, but his damage output is too high for me to stand close. I've been looking at the 'Immortal Demon Hunter' builds floating around You-Tube and may have to go that route... which is gonna take a tiny bit of farming. Not really sure how I'll get past him with the wizard.
Iskatu was incredibly hard. The problem isn't kiting him so much as dealing with all of his minions and death zones while you kite him. A combination of the Cluster Arrow power that gives you 1 Discipline combined with repeated Cinder Trails won me the day, but just barely. My wizard can hold off the minions just long enough for Iskatu to close and rip him to pieces. Still trying to figure out a strategy for him..