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Using a goblin as a Bludgeoning weapon against other goblins


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

I would like to play a character, lets call him Fezzic, who can grab a goblin, Swing said goblin by the ankles, and use him to beat other goblins.

How could i do this? How about around 1st and 2nd level? Would a monk be best for this? what feats might I need?

Thanks


Barbarian. There is a rage power that lets you use a target you have grappled as a bludgeoning weapon.

Dedicated Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

I used half of a dire weasel to kill a kobold once. It was an improvised weapon.

If you want to use a live creature as a weapon, barbarian seems like the best bet.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The rage power is called "Body Bludgeon", and it's in Ultimate Combat. It deals the same damage to both the guy you're hitting and the guy with whom you're doing the hitting. Fun and effective!

(Only problems are, you have to be level 10 for the rage power, and you have to have put your intended weapon in a pin first. Fortunately, it's easy to pick up Improved Grapple, barbarians are naturally good at grappling, and it's fun to wrestle enemy clerics and wizards and such)


I'd also track the HP of the Goblin being used as a weapon, once he reached his full theoretical max HP for being DEAD dead I'd rule whats left if his corpse is too badly mangled to keep using... or maybe 'HP+CON+10=Max Damage', the idea being that if I hit you with a sausage, eventually the sausage will bust and fall apart.

Goblins aren't very hardy weapons.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Shifty wrote:

I'd also track the HP of the Goblin being used as a weapon, once he reached his full theoretical max HP for being DEAD dead I'd rule whats left if his corpse is too badly mangled to keep using... or maybe 'HP+CON+10=Max Damage', the idea being that if I hit you with a sausage, eventually the sausage will bust and fall apart.

Goblins aren't very hardy weapons.

Huh. Small world.

Also, yes, there's only so much pummeling your goblin can take before it's better to just put him down and grab another one.


The issue with the power is this: not long after gaining it, it becomes relatively unusable unless you are running in a humanoid based campaign... monsters become too large to effectively swing about.


If that Goblin is wearing Full Plate Armor, he should make a decent weapon even after death.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Stubs McKenzie wrote:
The issue with the power is this: not long after gaining it, it becomes relatively unusable unless you are running in a humanoid based campaign... monsters become too large to effectively swing about.

...enlarge person + Titan Mauler + body bludgeon = awesome


There's also the Monk of the Empty Hand, with their focus on improvised weapons. Surely, goblins are improvised weapons.


Doomed Hero wrote:
Stubs McKenzie wrote:
The issue with the power is this: not long after gaining it, it becomes relatively unusable unless you are running in a humanoid based campaign... monsters become too large to effectively swing about.
...enlarge person + Titan Mauler + body bludgeon = awesome

And now I'm picturing an alternative AM BARBARIAN wielding the Tarrasque...


I stand corrected lol

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Thanks, Perhaps a monk, with the Catch off guard feat, the Throw anything feat, Improved Unarmed Strike, and the Improved Grapple feat.

I guess I'm just looking to have fun......Is there a way to do a grapple as a move action? so he can grab, squeeze, and then throw? a goblin?
I was inspired by a scene from the Avengers movie

Spoiler:
When the Hulk thrashed Loki and then grumbled "puny god"

and i wanted to make a character who could use a goblin to beat another goblin. :D


You thief. we already did that. hahahaha. the tiefling monk picked up the goblin ninja character and beat a giant frog to death


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

I don't care what else gets posted here. The thread could devolve into a debate over the merits of eating babies vs. murdering puppies.

The title alone makes it the best thread ever.

Ever.

ggggg


I've had a running idea for years for creating a minotaur dwarf-hunter who specialized in picking up heavily armored dwarves and using them as shields.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well aside from the difficulties of grabbing and using a conscious goblin wouldn't it be much easier to simply kill one or knock him out and then use his limp helpless body as a weapon.

As a GM I think I would house rule a bonus to intimidate goblins when wielding a goblin as a weapon if a player managed to do it. Increasing the bonus if double wielding goblins. :)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sidney Marlborough 102 wrote:
You thief. we already did that. hahahaha. the tiefling monk picked up the goblin ninja character and beat a giant frog to death

I was running the game that this incident occurred in. Full story:

Goblin ninja has been caught by the giant frog's tongue and pulled to the mouth to be swallowed. Tiefling monk ran up to the frog and "grappled" the kobold away from the frog. It was at this point, one of the players played a plot twist card (wrath , if I recall) and asked if he could use the goblin as an improvised bludgeoning weapon against the frog. I allowed it, with the -4 penalty for improvised weapon. I gave the goblin a damage rating of 1d8, and I'll be damned if the monk didn't hit and roll max damage, killing the frog. I gave the goblin half damage in nonlethal damage, simply because I was feeling generous. And that they were 1st level.

Honestly, I only allowed it because one of the players used a plot twist card, and the concept was hilarious..

However, if anyone comes up with a workable mechanic, I'm sure my players would be interested, as they have been trying to cook up a feat to make this a viable combat tactic...

Liberty's Edge

I have been wondering if it would be possible to swing an ally instead of an enemy and have that ally trigger a readied action to cast, for example, shocking grasp. If so, would the ally being swung be able to reach an extra 5 feet making your ally a reach weapon?

Perhaps an even more spectacular option would be to find some way of throwing your ally at an enemy fastball-special-style.

Scarab Sages

Peter Jackson SezHai2U


ElyasRavenwood wrote:
I would like to play a character, lets call him Fezzic, who can grab a goblin, Swing said goblin by the ankles, and use him to beat other goblins.

[Slaps Elyas across the face]

Tomorrow at dawn, with pistols!

Sovereign Court Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Doodlebug Anklebiter wrote:
ElyasRavenwood wrote:
I would like to play a character, lets call him Fezzic, who can grab a goblin, Swing said goblin by the ankles, and use him to beat other goblins.

[Slaps Elyas across the face]

Tomorrow at dawn, with goblins!

FIFY ;)


[Slaps Zylphryx]

You, too! Honor shall be satisfied!


You know... There are some threads that you have to read just because you know from reading the thread title that it is going to be amazing.

This was one of those times.

Since I recently saw the avengers the only thing I'm picturing now is that scene between Hulk and Loki and that being analogous to the subject matter.

In closing I'll leave you all with this comment:

Barbarian to really dead Goblin-Club weapon thing after its too dead to keep using: "Puny Goblin..." And then he reaches for another.

Star Voter 2013

Reminds me of my old fighter using an unconscious dwarf as a club to crush a ninja in a one shot game during high school.


ElyasRavenwood wrote:
I would like to play a character, lets call him Fezzic...

Are you planning on being the bryte squad? ;-)

Sovereign Court Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Doodlebug Anklebiter wrote:

[Slaps Zylphryx]

You, too! Honor shall be satisfied!

Sure ... with goblins. ;)

I prefer brainy goblins though, so please keep that in mind when you bring in the weap .. erm ... goblins. I get hungry after a good duel. ;)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber
Doodlebug Anklebiter wrote:
ElyasRavenwood wrote:
I would like to play a character, lets call him Fezzic, who can grab a goblin, Swing said goblin by the ankles, and use him to beat other goblins.

[Slaps Elyas across the face]

Tomorrow at dawn, with pistols!

:D Fezzic if i remember likes to use rocks...

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber
sowhereaminow wrote:
Sidney Marlborough 102 wrote:
You thief. we already did that. hahahaha. the tiefling monk picked up the goblin ninja character and beat a giant frog to death

I was running the game that this incident occurred in. Full story:

Goblin ninja has been caught by the giant frog's tongue and pulled to the mouth to be swallowed. Tiefling monk ran up to the frog and "grappled" the kobold away from the frog. It was at this point, one of the players played a plot twist card (wrath , if I recall) and asked if he could use the goblin as an improvised bludgeoning weapon against the frog. I allowed it, with the -4 penalty for improvised weapon. I gave the goblin a damage rating of 1d8, and I'll be damned if the monk didn't hit and roll max damage, killing the frog. I gave the goblin half damage in nonlethal damage, simply because I was feeling generous. And that they were 1st level.

Honestly, I only allowed it because one of the players used a plot twist card, and the concept was hilarious..

However, if anyone comes up with a workable mechanic, I'm sure my players would be interested, as they have been trying to cook up a feat to make this a viable combat tactic...

Very funny story. Thank you

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

I am sure this "brute Squad" character concept is doable....i guess the only question is really, weather the goblin will be alive, while being used to thrash other goblins, how many times the goblin could bite the grappler before he holds him up him by the ankles, Or weather the goblin would simply be beaten and squeezed into unconsciousness, and then used to beat other goblins.

I am sure with feats like Improved unarmed strike, Catch off guard, Throw anything, and Improved grapple " goblin mashing" and "goblin Hucking is possible. We just have to get creative and the the fun begins. .....

Star Voter 2013

Can you use 3.5 material?

If you can look for either a large race or a powerful build race and take the feats for flinging enemies. Great fun to be had.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

I'd just call it an improvised weapon attack...there is such as over-thinking it imo.

Star Voter 2013

bugleyman wrote:
I'd just call it an improvised weapon attack...there is such as over-thinking it imo.

I agree here and outside of you having the one rage power i would definatly allow a dead one to work this way. Now as for a live one not sure I can see it either getting attacks on you as a bonus or maybe using its action to wiggle and thus Aid the one your trying to hits defense.


You can look at it as an improvised weapon, but if you want your grappled enemy to take damage as well, you need the body bludgeon rage power.


But what about gnomes? They look more like they would be piercing or slashing weapons depending on hairstyle.


But you wouldn't have reach when wielding a Gnome. Unless you stretch it first.


Body Bludgeon is the way to go.

A friend of mine, during a past boss fight encounter in one of the campaigns I'm in, managed to grab one of the bosses in a successful grapple, pile-drive him down a flight of stairs and into the other boss, and then proceed to Body Bludgeon both of them into submission (many Hero Points were burned to make it all happen and everyone was laughing too hard to care he was dominating the fight).


This is hilarious. I'd rule it like this:

1. Combat maneuver to grapple. If your check succeeds by 5 or more, you may pick him up (assuming he's one step or more smaller). If it fails, you'll have to pin him before you can lift him up.

2. Wielding a small creature 1-handed would be extremely difficult, thus making it an improvised weapon at -4. On the other hand, you could always wield it two handed, gripping each leg by the ankle, turning it into a deadly bludgeoning weapon, and no penalties if you have martial weapon proficiency.

3. 1d6 damage, or maybe 2d3 (one lethal one nonlethal) (allowing 1.5 strength bonus for two handed).

edit: I would say that equal damage is done to both the weapon and the target. The goblin could only deal conx2 damage before it's completely mutilated and no longer fit to deal damage lol.


Kybryn wrote:

This is hilarious. I'd rule it like this:

1. Combat maneuver to grapple. If your check succeeds by 5 or more, you may pick him up (assuming he's one step or more smaller). If it fails, you'll have to pin him before you can lift him up.

2. Wielding a small creature 1-handed would be extremely difficult, thus making it an improvised weapon at -4. On the other hand, you could always wield it two handed, gripping each leg by the ankle, turning it into a deadly bludgeoning weapon, and no penalties if you have martial weapon proficiency.

3. 1d6 damage, or maybe 2d3 (one lethal one nonlethal) (allowing 1.5 strength bonus for two handed).

edit: I would say that equal damage is done to both the weapon and the target. The goblin could only deal conx2 damage before it's completely mutilated and no longer fit to deal damage lol.

I'd be careful making the tactic that effective because it obviates the value of the body bludgeon rage power.

maybe.....-4 non proficiency penalty dealing 1d4 damage to target as non-lethal weapon, and for an additional -4 it can be lethal, and apply a significant armor check penalty to the wielder. Never make beating someone to death with one of their buddies seem 'efficient' without taking 10 lvls of barbarian 1st
my 2 cents


MC Templar wrote:
Kybryn wrote:

This is hilarious. I'd rule it like this:

1. Combat maneuver to grapple. If your check succeeds by 5 or more, you may pick him up (assuming he's one step or more smaller). If it fails, you'll have to pin him before you can lift him up.

2. Wielding a small creature 1-handed would be extremely difficult, thus making it an improvised weapon at -4. On the other hand, you could always wield it two handed, gripping each leg by the ankle, turning it into a deadly bludgeoning weapon, and no penalties if you have martial weapon proficiency.

3. 1d6 damage, or maybe 2d3 (one lethal one nonlethal) (allowing 1.5 strength bonus for two handed).

edit: I would say that equal damage is done to both the weapon and the target. The goblin could only deal conx2 damage before it's completely mutilated and no longer fit to deal damage lol.

I'd be careful making the tactic that effective because it obviates the value of the body bludgeon rage power.

maybe.....-4 non proficiency penalty dealing 1d4 damage to target as non-lethal weapon, and for an additional -4 it can be lethal, and apply a significant armor check penalty to the wielder. Never make beating someone to death with one of their buddies seem 'efficient' without taking 10 lvls of barbarian 1st
my 2 cents

Templar, you're totally right. I don't think I would make this a house rule. I imagined sitting around the table with my friends, and then all of the sudden the 18+ strength fighter guy suggests that this is what he wants to do. Without doing all the research to find out that this is an actual ability, I would rule it as such. It would create a super fun situation that would be super hilarious, and actually kind of believable. A gnome doesn't weight more than 45 pounds or so. That's not a lot of weight for someone to swing around, especially for someone that's got a strength of 18. Remember, my point is this is on the fly ruling to have some fun.


This would be excellent with something that makes you count as one size category larger for the purposes of grappling. I believe there is something out there that accomplishes this without being Enlarged but i cannot remember for the life of me what it is.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Thank you all for your thoughts. I'm just looking to have some fun....at some goblin's expense.

I'm not too worried about invalidating body bludgeon...i think you have to pick it up at 10 level, and be a barbarian.

Im just looking to throw around some small monsters, Goblins, Kobolds, mites, etc, as much for comic relief, as for having fun.

again Thank you

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