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OK, so the alchemist discovery "wings" functions as the spell fly with the duration altered. Does a winged alchemist potentially suffer a 10 foot drop when damaged (NOT like the fly spell) for being winged flight? Does the wings discovery allow for 60 feet per round safe fall for 1d6 rounds?
Basically, does the wings discovery act like the fly spell or does it give the alchemist a fly speed and a +1/2 caster level bonus on fly checks, all subject to the limitations described under the fly skill as a winged flier?
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The discovery is pretty clear that it functions as the fly spell but as a
extraordinary ability. So I would say to follow the fly spell.
Wings (Ex)
Prerequisite: Alchemist 6Benefit: The alchemist gains bat-like, bird-like, or insect-like functional wings, allowing him to fly as the fly spell for a number of minutes per day equal to his caster level. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but they must be spent in 1-minute increments.
Special: An alchemist can select this discovery multiple times; each time he does so, he adds his caster level to the number of minutes per day that he can fly with the wings. This flight is an extraordinary ability.
Fly
Spoiler:The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load). It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good.Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears. The subject gains a bonus on Fly skill checks equal to 1/2 your caster level.
Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends safely in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if it is negated by an antimagic field.
See Falling Damage if something bad happens!
My two cents: While the wings are active, I would say that both the rules for the Fly spell and the rules for winged flight apply. Are there any conflicts between the two (other than "one has clause X and the other doesn't")?
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Hmmm the fly skill makes this a lot less clear.
You are not considered flat-footed while flying. If you are flying using wings and you take damage while flying, you must make a DC 10 Fly check to avoid losing 10 feet of altitude. This descent does not provoke an attack of opportunity and does not count against a creature’s movement.
I am going to change my thoughts on it this and agree with Hogarth. The fly spell and the wings discovery are just simply a means to gain flight. It still uses all of the same flight rules except where the spell says otherwise. I would now say that the fly spell is subject to the same 10 foot drop after damage given the way the fly skill is written.
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Sorry to necro this thread but I need some clarifications. A dev would be nice but general consensus will do. :)
So agree or disagree with the following:
-Not magical therefore not subject to dispel magic or anti-magic zone
-Always active but of limited use per day ie: a non-action to use
-Will not function in a medium less environment ie: no air or gas of some sort
-cannot "run"
-fly is considered class skill
-get +4 bonus to fly skill due to good maneuverability
-get 1/2 caster level bonus to fly skill
-should the duration expire you float down as the spell...ie: your wings are tired and you can still glide down as per the spell
-otherwise considered to have wings
Yes no maybe? :)
... Except when the fly spell ends, you are no longer flying, but in a controlled fall as an aftereffect. When the discovery ends, you are not flying, but have no clause for controlled fall.
I see "as the spell" to imply things like flight speed, maneuverability, and skill, but not duration or aftereffects. The winged vs. wingless also would be by the winged rules as the wings are called out in the discovery and would thus override the wingless flight.
/cevah
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@Cevah: where in the Wings discovery do you see it saying that you don't get the Fly's graceful landing provision?
"As the spell" means that it does all the same things as the spell except for those called out explicitly to be different.
I do agree that it's winged flight, because the discovery grants you wings. That's explicitly called out.
The trickiest part is deciding what action it takes to activate. On the one hand it's an Ex ability without an explicit activation action required. So you can probably switch it on at any time (for example, when you fall off a cliff). On the other hand, "as the Fly spell" suggests that maybe the wings need to be activated as a Standard action. I'm not really sure about that one.
@Cevah: where in the Wings discovery do you see it saying that you don't get the Fly's graceful landing provision?
"As the spell" means that it does all the same things as the spell except for those called out explicitly to be different.
No, it does the "Fly" part as the spell.
allowing him to fly as the fly spell
Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds.
RAW: Float <> Fly.
RAI: I can see a GM call granting this.I do agree that it's winged flight, because the discovery grants you wings. That's explicitly called out.
The trickiest part is deciding what action it takes to activate. On the one hand it's an Ex ability without an explicit activation action required. So you can probably switch it on at any time (for example, when you fall off a cliff). On the other hand, "as the Fly spell" suggests that maybe the wings need to be activated as a Standard action. I'm not really sure about that one.
Extraordinary Abilities (Ex): Using an extraordinary ability is usually not an action because most extraordinary abilities automatically happen in a reactive fashion. Those extraordinary abilities that are actions are usually standard actions that cannot be disrupted, do not require concentration, and do not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Using the wings is not a reactive situation, or an immediate action would be called out for that kind of use. Thus the default is standard action.
/cevah
Thanks guys.
Missed the answers until now.
Using the wings is not a reactive situation, or an immediate action would be called out for that kind of use. Thus the default is standard action.
I always read Wings as functioning like Vestigial Arm or Tentacle, since the base language is exactly the same. You don't need to grow your wings as an action because, like a Vestigial Arm, they're always there. As per the text you're limited in how long you can actually fly with them, but you don't have to do anything but start flying to fly. I could see it ruled otherwise, but to me that seems like the most consistent way to rule it with what "the alchemist gains [bodypart]" discoveries do - it's no less "essentially reactive" than using a tentacle.
