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Secrets of the Swordlords: How to build an effective Aldori


Advice

101 to 138 of 138 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | next > last >>

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Saint Bernard wrote:

Threatening Defender

You know how to avoid a blow while still maintaining your offensive posture.

Benefit: When you use Combat Expertise, reduce the number you subtract from your melee attack rolls by 1.

This is from Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils

Personally I think it is a solid trait but not a must have one.

Cheers!

Is that a campaign trait? If it is, you can't have that and Sword Scion on the same PC, and I know which one I'd choose!

It is a combat trait.

Grand Lodge

Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Saint Bernard wrote:

Threatening Defender

You know how to avoid a blow while still maintaining your offensive posture.

Benefit: When you use Combat Expertise, reduce the number you subtract from your melee attack rolls by 1.

This is from Pathfinder Companion: Cheliax, Empire of Devils

Personally I think it is a solid trait but not a must have one.

Cheers!

Is that a campaign trait? If it is, you can't have that and Sword Scion on the same PC, and I know which one I'd choose!

The new PrC is something of a minor game changer. Dazzling Display replaces Quickdraw in the attempt to get to Aldori Dueling Mastery as a feat (I never say no to +2 AC) but you also get the equivalent of the Agile property for your weapon (assuming not power attacking, using two hands etc). Dazzling Display is better than quick draw.

Grand Lodge

Defender of the Society is a good trait as well... I have an Aldori in medium armour and the +1 trait bonus there to AC is a nice one.

Star Voter 2015

I'd like to suggest the halfling as a viable pick (especially now that the PrC gives Dex builds a boost). As a halfling, you get access to another +2 AC when fighting defensively via
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/cautious-fighter-combat-halfling

What's that, you want to be a team player? How about giving your adjacent allies one half of your fighting defensively bonus as a Luck boost to AC/CMD?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/blundering-defense-combat-halfling

That's +3 AC for allies with Crane Style, Acrobatics ranks, and Cautious Fighter. If you get Steel Net, you're giving them +4.

But how will I do damage? Well, this feat won't work if you're fighting humanoids all the time (unless the mage casts Reduce Person on you), but if you're fighting monsters, Risky Striker is more or less reliable. While you don't get 1.5x the damage as a power attacker might, at least the AC penalty doesn't scale, while the damage boost does.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/arg-feats/risky-striker-combat-halfling


So.... I have been toying with the idea of making an Aldori Swordlord and have spent a week trying to make the concept viable. I agree with you on every single one of the "traps" and have now decided to go with a strength build.

I was looking at the Crowd Pleaser, as it is closest to what I was looking for, but I am confused by the part of the guide that recommends Maneuver Master in order to tack on disarms to a full attack...

The disarms will be at -2 due to the Flurry of Maneuvers and it says that you use your Monk level in place of your BAB. Monk level will never be higher than 1 so you start with a -1 to your roll? Combat maneuvers are hard enough to land already. Is this really worth it? Am I missing something?


Not to dredge up an old post, but I didn't understand one part. The part on the Snake Style progression reads:

Snake Style, Snake Sidewind, Snake Fang. It's all about Snake Fang here. Anytime someone misses you in combat, you get to take an AoO with your unarmed strike, anytime they hit you get to take an AoO with your sword. No matter what, anyone who attacks you is vulnerable to a counterstrike. Nice! I call this the Retribution Build.

Why do I get an AoO with a sword if they hit? Snake Fang says that I get to make an unarmed AoO if they attack and miss me, and another one (also unarmed) if I hit with the first AoO.

Nowhere does it mention getting an AoO if they hit me.


jmclaus wrote:

Not to dredge up an old post, but I didn't understand one part. The part on the Snake Style progression reads:

Snake Style, Snake Sidewind, Snake Fang. It's all about Snake Fang here. Anytime someone misses you in combat, you get to take an AoO with your unarmed strike, anytime they hit you get to take an AoO with your sword. No matter what, anyone who attacks you is vulnerable to a counterstrike. Nice! I call this the Retribution Build.

Why do I get an AoO with a sword if they hit? Snake Fang says that I get to make an unarmed AoO if they attack and miss me, and another one (also unarmed) if I hit with the first AoO.

Nowhere does it mention getting an AoO if they hit me.

Counterattack (Ex) At 11th level, a swordlord can make an attack of opportunity as an immediate action against an opponent who hits the swordlord with a melee attack, so long as the attacking creature is within the swordlord’s reach. This ability replaces Armor Training 3.


Why does the technique swordlord take TWF at level 2?


To increase DPS attacks with offhand and unarmed strike.. If I remember correctly.


Sir Gavvin wrote:

So.... I have been toying with the idea of making an Aldori Swordlord and have spent a week trying to make the concept viable. I agree with you on every single one of the "traps" and have now decided to go with a strength build.

I was looking at the Crowd Pleaser, as it is closest to what I was looking for, but I am confused by the part of the guide that recommends Maneuver Master in order to tack on disarms to a full attack...

The disarms will be at -2 due to the Flurry of Maneuvers and it says that you use your Monk level in place of your BAB. Monk level will never be higher than 1 so you start with a -1 to your roll? Combat maneuvers are hard enough to land already. Is this really worth it? Am I missing something?

Unless it was changed, I believe that you use your BAB progression for Flurry of Blows.


For the purpose of FoB, you take your total monk levels instead of BaB gained from those levels. Hence, a level 1 monk is at -1/-1, not -2/-2.


Yeah, I figured it out not long after I posted that. I have a swordlord character built that I want to try out, but have not gotten a chance to play yet.

Grand Lodge

I've been playing this kind of character in a Kingmaker campaign for a while, and I have been having a lot of fun with it.

However, I don't like the fighter Archetype very much, and I took a very different swing on the idea.

Currently, by build is Bard(archaeologist)8/Fighter 2. Next leve I'm going to take Aldori Swordlord 1.

I've lost 2 points of BAB so far, which has hurt, and my damage output isn't top notch, but I've found the build very effective. As it turns out, Bard spells are amazing for a melee fighter. Archaeologist's luck bonus self inspire combined with Heroism means my to hit is through the roof, and my saves are amazing. Mirror image plus very high AC means I'm rarely taking melee damage. Uncanny Dodge and Evasion on a dex fighter is amazing. With Trapspotter rogue trick and maxed out perception and disable device, combined with being able to disarm magical traps means I've completely turned off traps as threats to the party. Also, I can caste Haste now, which is amazing for melee frontline fighters. I also can 5 foot step away from Melee and heal myself. And Comprehend Languages and Tongues have been priceless in the Adventure Path, now that I'm the King.

I choose not to go the fighter archetype because I think Armor Mastery is better for the build than an AC buff that is only on some of the time. But I've never gotten around to taking level 3 in fighter, and after one level in Aldori Swordlord I'm probably going back to bard. More Lore Mastery, Mirror Images, better self luck buff, Improved Evasion, and Level 4 Bard Spells (Dimension Door, Freedome of Movement, Secure Shelter) seem worth the trade off of another BAB point. I might go back to fighter levels after I hit Bard 12 at level 15.

The build was a little rough at low level, Starting at Bard 1 with EWP, then Fighter 1 for Weapon Finesse, then Fighter 2 for Weapon Focus and Dodge. Once I got Power attack my damage got back on par (though still not top tier). Next level at 11, when I get Aldori Swordlord, I think that my damage potential will go up, especially when I won't lose all my shield bonus (I've been using a +1 buckler so far) when I switch to two handed power attack.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Pawns Subscriber

What do you guys think of this?

Samurai Sword Saint 6/Aldori Swordlord 1:

Human (Taldan) Aldori Swordlord 1 Samurai (Sword Saint) 6
LN Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +6; Senses Perception +0
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 22, touch 14, flat-footed 18 (+7 armor, +1 shield, +4 Dex)
hp 79 (7d10+33)
Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +3
Defensive Abilities resolve (3/day); Resist cockatrice's skills
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee Mithral Sword, Aldori dueling +14/+9 (1d8+8/19-20/x2)
Special Attacks braggart, brutal slash +3, cockatrice's challenge +6 (2/day), iajutsu strike +3d6/-4 ac (full-round), terrifying iajutsu (dc 15)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 15
Base Atk +7; CMB +8; CMD 22
Feats Aldori Dueling Mastery, Dazzling Display (Sword, Aldori dueling), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Sword, Aldori dueling), Toughness +7, Tribal Scars (Slothjaw), Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Sword, Aldori dueling), Weapon Specialization (Sword, Aldori dueling)
Traits Armor Expert, Sword Scion
Skills Acrobatics +10, Appraise +5, Bluff +11, Climb +6, Diplomacy +7, Handle Animal +8, Intimidate +10, Knowledge (nobility) +6, Perform (dance) +6, Ride +8, Sense Motive +8, Swim +6
Languages Common
SQ mounted archer, orders (order of the cockatrice), weapon expertise (katana)
Other Gear +1 Mithral Agile breastplate, Mithral Sword, Aldori dueling, Belt of incredible dexterity +2, 12730 GP
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Aldori Dueling Mastery Gain combat benefits when using Aldori dueling swords
Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Braggart (Ex) Demoralize as a standard action, +2 to hit demoralized targets.
Brutal Slash +3 (Ex) Gain a bonus to confirm Iajutsu Strike criticals.
Cockatrice's Challenge +6 (2/day) (Ex) +6 to damage target, -2 AC vs. others when used, +2 damage when you are the only one threatening the target.
Cockatrice's Skills +2 (Ex) +2 to DC vs. demoralization.
Dazzling Display (Sword, Aldori dueling) Intimidate check to demoralize can affect those within 30' who see you.
Iajutsu Strike +3d6/-4 AC (Full-round) (Ex) Draw sword as strike challenged foe for extra dam, but take AC penalty for 1 rd. You can use this once per foe, each day.
Mounted Archer (Ex) At 4th level, the samurai becomes skilled at firing ranged weapons while mounted. A samurai only takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls with ranged weapons while his mount takes a double move. This penalty increases to –4 while his mount is running.
Resolve (3/day) (Ex) Starting at 1st level, the samurai gains resolve that he can call upon to endure even the most devastating wounds and afflictions. He can use this ability once per day at 1st level, plus one additional time per day for every two samurai levels beyond
Sword Scion +1 to hit and CMB with longswords and Aldori Dueling Swords.
Terrifying Iajutsu (DC 15) (Ex) When hit foe with Iajutsu Strike, all foes in 30 ft shaken 1d4+1 rds (Will neg).
Weapon Expertise (Katana) (Ex) You can quick draw the chosen weapon, and gain +2 to confirm critical hits.

Equipment is rudimental. Of course some feats could be changed. Higher crit and confirmation could be useful, as well as dodge or similar things. Unfortunately sword saints quick draw ability is wasted, except your GM allows it for the dueling sword, which isn´t a big bother.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hayato Ken wrote:

What do you guys think of this?

** spoiler omitted **...

I really like this build, but where do you get Tribal Scars (Slothjaw) from and what does it do??

Also to Victor, you bring a really interesting concept to the table imo. Never would I have considered an Archaeologist Aldori of all things plus not only do you get awesome rougish abilities, but you also get spells that can be flavored into why this swift swordsman can strike so true and yet retain the "image" of being all over the place. AMAZING haha


Seconded on the archeologist!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Victor, can we get a stat block of this guy up??


hate to necropost, but the 'crowd pleaser' build in the guide doesn't seem legit--crane wing requires BAB +5, and you're getting it at 5th level. you only have +4 BAB at that point because of the monk dip.

you can remedy this by swapping crane wing and mobility at 5th and 7th levels, respectively.

also, an alternate build without the equipment trick (scabbard) might look something like this:

Spoiler:
Human Fighter (swordlord/gladiator) / Monk (maneuver master)

(minimum requirements)
str 13+, dex 13+
str>con/cha>dex>wis>int

Feats:
(fighter) 1 Weapon Focus (aldori dueling sword), Power Attack, Dodge, Performance Weapon Mastery
(monk) 2* Improved Disarm
(back to fighter) 3 Crane Style, Mobility
5 Weapon Specialization, Spring Attack
7 Lunge, Crane Wing
9 Osyluth's Guile, Crane Riposte
11 Combat Reflexes, Disarming Strike

wear medium armor and go nuts.


NECROMANCY!

However, I thought it worthwhile, as I've finally updated the guide to include the Swordlord prestige class.


wonderful! also, have you taken a look at the ACG playest doc? th swashbuckler seems like a snug fit (provided you grab aldori dueling mastery)


I have. It will probably be a decent way to enter into the prestige class, should you want to do that. When the book actually comes out, I'll revise the guide to include any new options. Eventually.

I also made a couple of small changes to the guide. I've revised my opinion about Lunge, placing it as Improved Disarm's equal if you have sufficient mastery of abusing 5' steps. This is because I've gained sufficient experience doing just that with a Magus since then. I've revised a few builds to account. I may add a build using the prestige class later.


I think that the best use of the Aldori PrC is for high-level NPCs that know how to deal with uppity Barbarian player characters.


Raise Thread!

Is there still any value in the Crane Style chain now that Wing's been nerfed and Riposte's been rendered useless by the change to Wing?


To what nerf are you referring? Did I miss something?


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Scorpioni wrote:
To what nerf are you referring? Did I miss something?

It's in the Ultimate Combat Errata. Essentially instead of being able to deflect one melee attack per round with Crane Wing (unless you use the Total Defense action, but for the swordlord especially, that's a non-factor), you only add a +4 Dodge Bonus once per round before the attack is rolled, which also means you can't get an attack in with Crane Riposte.


It looks like they're still considering these changes and didn't realise the implications with Crane Riposte, so, don't panic and burn your character sheets just yet. Give it a few days and see what Paizo comes up with and whether the changes remain, it's pretty clear that *something* will alter to ensure Crane Riposte isn't rendered void.


I don't think it's in a consideration phase - the changes are in an official errata document - to me that would mean that the new printing of the book has been finalized and is at the printers (or maybe even already back from the printers).


Tholomyes wrote:
Scorpioni wrote:
To what nerf are you referring? Did I miss something?
It's in the Ultimate Combat Errata. Essentially instead of being able to deflect one melee attack per round with Crane Wing (unless you use the Total Defense action, but for the swordlord especially, that's a non-factor), you only add a +4 Dodge Bonus once per round before the attack is rolled, which also means you can't get an attack in with Crane Riposte.

you're joking, right? paizo can't possibly have thought nerfing the monk yet AGAIN was a good idea. there is no way SKR has that much of a hateboner for them.


play nice. that sort of comment got the discussion threads locked last night, we don't need to get this locked as well


AndIMustMask wrote:
Tholomyes wrote:
Scorpioni wrote:
To what nerf are you referring? Did I miss something?
It's in the Ultimate Combat Errata. Essentially instead of being able to deflect one melee attack per round with Crane Wing (unless you use the Total Defense action, but for the swordlord especially, that's a non-factor), you only add a +4 Dodge Bonus once per round before the attack is rolled, which also means you can't get an attack in with Crane Riposte.
you're joking, right? paizo can't possibly have thought nerfing the monk yet AGAIN was a good idea. there is no way SKR has that much of a hateboner for them.

There were two big issues. The first, like many monk things, was not that the monk was too powerful with it, but that other classes gained too much from it, as was the case with Druids and AoMF, and other such stuff.

The second, however was the Monk of Many Styles. For a single level dip, you could gain Crane Wing much earlier than it was designed to be used. This, however is only half of the issue. The other half is PFS. While Crane Wing was powerful, it could be overcome by a DM who used tactics beyond melee fighters. However in PFS, the DMs are not free to change around encounters on the fly, and the fights that occur tend to be those that Crane Wing performs well against. As a result it got nerfed based on how it performed in PFS, rather than how it performed at the vast majority of home tables.

The Crane Riposte thing, I believe, had more to do with the designers not really putting much thought into how their change affected the next feat on the line.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have made an Aldori Duelist, using Lore warden as the starter, going into a one level dip into the Aldori PrC, then a around lvl 9ish going into the duelist for about 3-4 lvls then going back into Lore Warden until 16. This was for a Carrion Crown hence the 16ish goal. Sadly, never gotten to play high high end with him. Was looking into the Step Up line and maybe some of the Disruptive/Spell breaker and have looked at combat patrol/lunge as well.


This upcoming Saturday, I'll start playing my Swordlord character! Initially, it was going to be a MoMS 2 (Snake style, mantis in the later levels) / Lorewarden, but then it dawned that we actually had no divine casters, *and* not much UMD. So, after a bit of musing, I'm going to play an Oracle of Battle with a dueling sword. Has anyone tried something like that yet?

Mind, the campaign rules are very beneficial for me. There is no "sword scion" trait, but I can get the exotic weapon proficiency with a trait, which is nice, *and* Weapon Finesse as well as Combat Expertise are free feats. There is also a "refurbished and renamed" Dervish Dancer feat that works with any finesse weapon (prereq. Weapon Focus and BAB 3+), so I'm planning on a dex build.

Would you think that going into any prestige classes would be beneficial? There's not a lot of options for a "swordlord" oracle that I have found, unless you dip just one level or so, or give up the high level spells altogether.

What do you all think of the Enforcer feat for a Swordlord? Should work with the "Merciful" enchantment in the later levels. Since I don't plan on offensive spellcasting, I figured it might make a good "debuff". Would Dazzling Display be the better choice? That full round action sounds awkward.


An Oracle is powerful as he is, but the dueling sword will not make any difference. Definately do not dip out of Oracle.

Have you considered a Warpriest? They are divine casters with a more martial focus from the ACG.

In the end though, the dueling sword does not worth it. A scimitar is plain better. The only reason to take it is to use the swordlord archetype or the PrC.

If you like the falvor though, go for it. At least with the Aldori Dueling Mastery feat you get some bonus to initiative.


XMorsX wrote:

An Oracle is powerful as he is, but the dueling sword will not make any difference. Definately do not dip out of Oracle.

Have you considered a Warpriest? They are divine casters with a more martial focus from the ACG.

In the end though, the dueling sword does not worth it. A scimitar is plain better. The only reason to take it is to use the swordlord archetype or the PrC.

If you like the falvor though, go for it. At least with the Aldori Dueling Mastery feat you get some bonus to initiative.

Well, yes - the scimitar is superior, but that's irrelevant. No one would accept a duel if you bring one of those things along. That's about as civilized as using a battle axe to cut your sandwich!

As far as Warpriest goes: really considered it, but in the end the GM preferred not to use the playtest classes yet, since several of them had issues in his opinion (and I agree with most of his points). He didn't feel like allowing some but not others. Without that decision, though, I may not have chosen the class, anyway, since my character isn't actually all that religious. Oracle is a pretty good fit for an "inspired" but non-religious combatant.

As a total aside: how do people imagine their dueling swords to look? I'm going for a "schiavona" style, myself.

http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spot_schia.html


I'd say that that's pretty close, although the blades are described as slightly curved.


*Puts on dark robe, takes out robe bound in poster's skin, and begins chanting.*

*Casts animate thread.*

I know I'm necroing this thread, but now the Aldori dueling sword is viable! Yes, viable!

The deal is, you can make an absurd build by becoming a Kensai magus. How, you ask? With this:

1. Make your character a kensai. This gives him Weapon Focus and EWP for free.

2. Invest the EWP in the dueling sword (obviously).

3. Be a human for a bonus feat. Take you normal feat and your human bonus feat in Weapon Finesse and, because the dueling sword is a slashing weapon, Slashing Grace (Aldori Dueling Sword).

4. Use arcane mark shenanigans.

5. Watch your DM weep as you flaunt your high armor class, double-attacking dex-based magus build.


If it's just a kensai, I'd rather do the same thing with a rapier and Fencing Grace. Better crit range matters a lot on a magus.

However, the Aldori sword is a legal choice for the Black Blade archetype.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think the Aldori Dueling Sword looks more like this.
http://www.myarmoury.com/swor_aa_swisssaber.html

It still irritates me to no end that the threat range isn't as good as a Scimitar or Rapier.

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