Improved Familiar lowers a Familiar's Int Score, by RAW?


Rules Questions

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If I take Improved Familiar and gain an intelligent familiar companion - say, an imp, what happens to the imp's Intelligence score? By RAW, it looks like the Int score of the imp is whatever the familiar table says it is.

According to Improved Familiar:

"Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: if the creature's type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate)."

It makes no mention of an exception to the table which normally dictates the Int score of a familiar. So am I missing something or does my imp's Int change to match the Int score on the familiar table, by RAW?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You're the umpteenth person who's made this post.

No... the Intelligence figures are for the standard companions who start out as dumb animals. IF the Bestiary score is higher, you use that.


Unfortunately by RAW: Yes, your Imp is not as intelligent as the average of it's kind. Really I would think that this is not what is intended though when Wizards created this feat. I have never seen a ruling on it in either D&D or PF though. If it's really a problem just remember rule 0 and ask your GM.


LazarX wrote:

You're the umpteenth person who's made this post.

No... the Intelligence figures are for the standard companions who start out as dumb animals. IF the Bestiary score is higher, you use that.

Where in the Familiar or Improved Familiar Rules does it say this?

(Sorry for double posting.)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The devs did speak on this. Your imp/pseudodragon/quasit/whatever does not become dumber. the Int scores on the familliar table are minimums if the Bestiary score is higher you use that.

Liberty's Edge

Starfinder Superscriber

(Thread necro.) I've seen two people, searching threads, saying that "the devs" have said that the intelligence of an Improved Familiar will not be less than the base creature.

Does anybody have a reference to this? A link to a post in which a dev said this?


I have never seen any dev posts about the interaction of improved familiar and the normal familiar power tables.

Also super curious: If you have a pseudodragon or faerie dragon, does it actually get "speak with animals of its kind"? If so, are there any animals of its kind? Not that it matters, since both are telepathic and can speak anyway.

Grand Lodge

@ seebs

Improved familiars otherwise use the rules for regular familiars, with two exceptions: if the creature's type is something other than animal, its type does not change; and improved familiars do not gain the ability to speak with other creatures of their kind (although many of them already have the ability to communicate).


I had hoped that the familiar folio would address this issue. Does anyone know if it does?


Well, it makes sense. You really have to be an idiot to hang out with your average adventurer. Especially after the familiar folio. He's most likely going to use you to flank an ogre or something.

As the levels go up, this is less and less a terrible idea and your INT rises to accomodate.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Gisher wrote:
I had hoped that the familiar folio would address this issue. Does anyone know if it does?

It doesn't. I searched my PDF for all occurrences of "intelligence" and "Improved Familiar" and found nothing on this subject.

However, I did pick up one item that implies that a familiar does not keep the intelligence of its original creature listing if it is higher. The Mauler familiar archetype has a MAXIMUM intelligence of 6, which means that if it is an improved familiar, it most likely lost intelligence.

On the other hand, the Sage familiar archetype has an intelligence of 5 + effective wizard level of master, so it is less likely to lose intelligence even at the lowest levels.

Of course, since both of these archetypes replace the "speak with animals of its kind" special ability, I am not sure whether either of them can be applied to most improved familiars in the first place.

Liberty's Edge

David knott 242 wrote:
Gisher wrote:
I had hoped that the familiar folio would address this issue. Does anyone know if it does?

It doesn't. I searched my PDF for all occurrences of "intelligence" and "Improved Familiar" and found nothing on this subject.

However, I did pick up one item that implies that a familiar does not keep the intelligence of its original creature listing if it is higher. The Mauler familiar archetype has a MAXIMUM intelligence of 6, which means that if it is an improved familiar, it most likely lost intelligence.

On the other hand, the Sage familiar archetype has an intelligence of 5 + effective wizard level of master, so it is less likely to lose intelligence even at the lowest levels.

Of course, since both of these archetypes replace the "speak with animals of its kind" special ability, I am not sure whether either of them can be applied to most improved familiars in the first place.

I was wondering this myself.


See on the RAW side it doesn't let improve familiar's have those archetypes. But it also seems like the Mount archetypes that let Mounts count as having share spells. So unless we see some clarification it has to be interpreted that they can't.


David knott 242 wrote:


Of course, since both of these archetypes replace the "speak with animals of its kind" special ability, I am not sure whether either of them can be applied to most improved familiars in the first place.

Unless I'm missing something, I don't think Sage Archetype replace "speak with animals of its kind" ability.


Improved familiars starts with 9 int at lvl7???

If they have more base int, (as faery dragon Int=16) do they DROP int to 9???

Is there any place in the rules that specifies this?

Can some designer show some light pls?


You posted on three threads with identical responses? Just use the higher of the two intelligence scores.


Yeah... by RAW you should dumb your familiar down, if you have to use the higher, it should be on the FAQ right?


I would be surprised if it appeared on the FAQ but go ahead and check.


Maybe it should be. It doesn't excuse you having necro'd three different threads to ask the exact same question when you could have stuck to one, or, better yet, reading the threads you were about to post in, as at least two of them contained the answers to your questions.

And asking a designer to shine light isn't going to be any more likely now than it was any of the times the threads originally existed.

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