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RPG Superstar 2015

'White Mage' character possible? (and 'iconic' rant!)


Advice

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Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 , Star Voter 2014

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Anlerran wrote:
rashiakas wrote:
maybe the hedge witch is what your player want?

Actually, this seems to fit the mechanics as a 'white mage' far better than anything else. Though I think the player would prefer a divine caster.

Still seems weird.

Player 1 - 'I want to play a Three Musketeers type character, and I'm happy to give up my metal armour to become better at using my rapier'.
GM: 'No problem, we have archetypes to fit that.'

Player 2: 'I want to play a Mwangi tribal who is a fierce warrior, but doesn't wear much more than feathers and loincloth. Wearing a breastplate just feels silly for this guy.'
GM: 'No worries, we have an archetype for that. It mitigates some of your armour loss and offers some offensive abilities to compensate'.

Player 3: 'I want to play a priestess with good social and lore skills, good casting but the fighting skills of a mage type.'
GM: 'No, sorry, can't do that. Every single divine caster in the history of the world is trained as a frontline fighter in metal armour and in bashing people's heads in with a heavy mace. You can _choose_ not to use them, but you're trained in doing that anyway, and your buddies will wonder why you aren't doing it'.

Just playing devil's advocate, I guess. Maybe I'll come across other basic concepts that don't fit. I remember a player in 4E who was annoyed he couldn't make a Conan-style warrior/rogue with a broadsword.

Seems to be one of those weird holdovers from D&D that 'divine caster' is inextricably linked with 'armoured mace guy'.

I'm stlll having a LOT of trouble understanding what you're upset about. You're saying that the oracle shouldn't have medium armor proficiency, because this suggests that an oracle is a front-line fighter? That makes absolutely no sense. Just because you have the option to wear armor doesn't mean your character has to be a front-line anything. BUILD A CASTER ORACLE.Problem solved.

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.

^this. Instead of lodging yourself into a character concept, just play something else.

Problem. Solved. There's no gimping, no weakening, just a character with a different focus.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber
Anlerran wrote:

One of my players wants to play something like a 'White Mage' role (from Final Fantasy)- that is, a divine caster with no armour but strong spellcasting abilities, weilding wands and staves more than melee weapons.

I was interested in the Oracle after seeing the iconic character, but it turns out that class is really just a melee beatstick just like all other divine classes in 3rd and 4th edition.

Which is especially galling because she looks as if she's a pure caster with those exotic robes - shouldn't the 'Iconics' have the armour and weapons the class actually uses?

I looked through the archetypes for something that would fit, and so far nothing did. I'm thinking of letting the player play a sorcerer and just swap out the arcane spells for cleric ones.

Or if I used a cleric or oracle, but cut the armour feats, maybe offering two more appropriate feat choices in exchange for losing Light & Medium armour?

I have never played final fantasy. so I am entirely unfamiliar with the game, and I don't know what a "white mage " is in this context. If you are looking for a divine spell caster in robes and no armor, I can recommend the "Priest" from the Tome of Secrets.

I hope this helps


I would highly recommend a Hedge Witch. One of the players in my current group decided to go this route specifically to play a White Mage and it's worked out really well.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Anlerran wrote:

Player 3: 'I want to play a priestess with good social and lore skills, good casting but the fighting skills of a mage type.'

GM: 'No, sorry, can't do that. Every single divine caster in the history of the world is trained as a frontline fighter in metal armour and in bashing people's heads in with a heavy mace. You can _choose_ not to use them, but you're trained in doing that anyway, and your buddies will wonder why you aren't doing it'.

Just playing devil's advocate, I guess. Maybe I'll come across other basic concepts that don't fit. I remember a player in 4E who was annoyed he couldn't make a Conan-style warrior/rogue with a broadsword.

Seems to be one of those weird holdovers from D&D that 'divine caster' is inextricably linked with 'armoured mace guy'.

If you are ok with 3rd party material you have several options. First of all the supergenius games Magus/Magister is a powerful spellcaster that can mix divine and arcane magic. The reason this is important is you can choose the cleric spell list as your primary spell list, and then sprinkly arcane spells that would allow you to opperate without armor but still be relatively safe (mage armor, shield, mirror image etc).

This class is also at the d20pfsrd site under magister if you want to take a look at it.

There is also as mentioned the priest class from tome of secrets. And there is the super genius games Mosaic Mage which directly incorporates the concepts of the 'coloured' mages into pathfinder.


I do not see the problem with a druid, oracle, or cleric that is focused on casting and wears little to no armor. They have some decent defensive spells (though I agree not as long lasting as mage armor). I believe their are rules for giving armor bonuses to clothing. A decent dex with low strength. Put the points into the casting stat. With the appropriate domain/mystery selections, this is perfectly playable as is. Just because the CAN wear medium armor does not force them to and does not make them automatically a melee beat stick. I believe many of the oracle builds are especially appropriate for a primary caster.

If I was GM I might adjust a domain or mystery spell if appropriate to give them shield, mage armor, or something similar. But if not it is still a solid choice that I see all the time.

Star Voter 2014

Wise Oracle


1 person marked this as a favorite.

How about taking the standard cleric, removing the armor proficiencies and adding a wisdom bonus to AC (Holy or deflection) as long as the holy symbol is prominently displayed?

Dark Archive Star Voter 2013

well for that they could just take a level dip into monk and get wis AC bonus


The thing is about FF games is they are JRPGs, a very specific style of gaming.

The thing about PF is that it is based on D&D, which is as WRPG as you get.

FF white mages use a mana pool and can spontaneously cast
PF clerics use spell slots and must prepare ahead of time
FF white mages are healbots, condition removers, and some buffing
PF clerics are healers, buffers, condition removers, decent damage dealers, capable of light tanking and more depending on domains.

White mage seems sort of limiting when you look at it like that.

I guess you could make one by creating a custom class using 3.5 psions and replacing all of the powers with level appropriate white mage custom powers.

The closest mechanically you could get with PF rules is an Oracle that for some reason only put points into CHA. Purposefully limiting your character to force an archetype that isn't even in the same genre of games seems rather wasteful.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

From what I've heard, the Life Oracle is the closest you can get to a White Mage class.


Might be a white lie, though, does it?

On a more serious note: have you checked out the Favored Soul class from D&D3.5 in Complete Divine?
Favored Soul: think sorc gone divine, CHA main stat, limited spell selection, same base list as cleric, armor prof etc. stays the same. Gets WeapFoc @ lvl4, WeapSpec @ lvl12, wings €@ lvl17 and DR @ lvl20.

After turning a few pages in that book, the Shugenja might fit even better - spontaneous casting, CHA main stat, has a special spell list, limited spells (must pick), has a focus element (the usual 4 suspects, half spells at given level must be associated with that element), can't learn spells associated with opposing element, simple weapon prof + short sword, no armor prof.

Ruyan.


Favored soul is Oracle without benefits and drawbacks of the curse (ok, favored soul has better saves, I know, I play one in 3.5 game currently). In fact it's asking to be made into oracle archetype that replaces mystery and revelation with path to ascension as determined by the deity.


Several mysteries give you things like CHA to AC, so why bother with armour if you don't want to?


Thanks to everyone who replied! Glad I could stimulate some debate. You've presented lots of options for us, anyway.

And as Analysis says, some Oracles get an armour effect anyway - my player pointed this out to me before I realised. Ugh, my bad.

And just to clarify, I wasn't really after a 'mage (as in 'arcane') per se, but a character who excels at the healer/buffer role at the expense of limited melee. That seems to be a pretty common archetypoe in most fantasy games or books, and it seemed odd there wasn't a way to tweak a divine caster to be that.

But you've given us lots of divine and non-divine options, so thank you!

(It also solves my annoyance at that iconic who didn't - at first glance - seem very 'iconic' of her class. Now I've read the Oracle Mysteries, it makes sense!)


The Razmiran priest, sorceror archetype might be worth looking at as well as the Empyreal bloodline.

Grand Lodge

I had a player like that back in 3.5. I talked it over with him and made our own thing for him.

He gave up all armor, sheild and wepons down to as if he was a Wiz (with spell failer). As a reword for this he added his level to all healing done on spell 1st level and above. He also added his Wis mod to duration on all buff spells.

I admit this game ended by the time he hit 7th level but it worked well for our group and he was very happy with it.


Well a simple way of being a heal / buffer is multi-class Sorcerer and Cleric with the Mystic Theurge and Candle Caster prestige classes. Doing this will allow one to cannibalize there sorcerer spell slots or spell points, depending if you are using the optional rules, for more heals and what not. Also on any down time in the game the character can spend her time making candles with healing spells or what ever (s)he wants, some of which can be used by other party members. Of course you will need a place to stash all the candles like a belt of many pockets and to further the character's spell casting potential (s)he can get a Efficient Quiver and fill it up with wands, staffs, and rods.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Shaman

Mongoose Publishing I think


Check out the Healer class from the dnd 3.5 miniatures handbook. Limited spell list and no armor. Plus they are totally focussed on healing and status ailment removal. You could just change some of the spells around a lil for Pathfinder and maybe add a few for the flavor your looking for. Just a thought.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Analysis wrote:
Several mysteries give you things like CHA to AC, so why bother with armour if you don't want to?

I was going to suggest this as well. For example (from Lore mystery):

PRD wrote:
Sidestep Secret (Su): Your innate understanding of the universe has granted you preternatural reflexes and the uncanny ability to step out of danger at the very last second. Add your Charisma modifier (instead of your Dexterity modifier) to your Armor Class and all Reflex saving throws. Your armor's maximum Dexterity bonus applies to your Charisma instead of your Dexterity.

That last line really encourages you to wear light or no armor as you will likely have a very high Cha modifier. Last PC I saw with this ended up wearing padded armor with a +8 Cha mod. You aren't "gimping" yourself if you're using your class abilities.

There are always going to be problems converting something from a video game to a tabletop system - heck FF1 white mages used hammers which would be easy for 1e/2e clerics but now it takes an added proficiency.

I'd be hesitant to allow swapping out Medium Armor Prof - that opens up a door to swap out all abilities the PC never intends to use for actual useful stuff. With proficiencies that can get crazy. (How mnay fighters would swap away tower shields, for example?)

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32 , Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014, Star Voter 2015

Tallkid wrote:
Check out the Healer class from the dnd 3.5 miniatures handbook. Limited spell list and no armor. Plus they are totally focussed on healing and status ailment removal. You could just change some of the spells around a lil for Pathfinder and maybe add a few for the flavor your looking for. Just a thought.

It might take a little more work than that to make that class truly viable. I remember a vote on some forums once where people rated all the 3.5 base classes on 1 to 10 for power and the average was computed - healer scored a 0.6 (less than 1)!

It doesn't even have spontaneous curing.

But yeah, it had light armor, simple weapons, bad BAB, prepared spells, and less than half the cleric spell list. Didn't provoke while curing and got a unicorn eventually.

You'd be better off with a life oracle.


I know I am a lot late to day this but the Wight necromancer from last winter's koblot quarterly or the healer from the miniatures hand book should fit this idea to a tee .

Sorry for spelling and lack of links I am on my phone but if you ask it of me I can give some


I am not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet but the Magister by super genius games could work for the concept your player is wanting.
Plays like a mix of the 3.5 divine soul and sorcerer.


I dunno about you guys, but out of all the different Oracle builds I have worked with, probably only 1 of them wore armor, and almost all of them were heavily casting-focused and not melee bruisers by any stretch of the imagination.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Tallkid wrote:
Check out the Healer class from the dnd 3.5 miniatures handbook.

I did a comparison of that and the favored soul. You could have the entire healers spell list spontaneously by high levels, with better BAB and saves. Your best bet with the healer is to have it spontaneously cast from its entire spell list.


The Nature mystery has a revelation(Nature's Whispers) similar to Sidestep Secret, but it doesn't have a Max Dex restriction like Sidestep Secret.


Pesh Master wrote:
The Razmiran priest, sorceror archetype might be worth looking at as well as the Empyreal bloodline.

I'm not so sure about the Razmiran Priest archetype.

It's good if you've got handy access to wand (or whatever) versions of all the spells you need, but otherwise, I don't think it's gonna have the group support that an actual healer caster has. Plus, you're weighing yourself down with magic items.

Liberty's Edge

Have you considered a witch? They don't blast and they can heal.


One more vote for the Witch. Can be a quite effective healer, is an outstanding controller full caster, and if you only take party-buffing hexes, will really give you the full feel of the white mage.


Anlerran wrote:

Thanks to everyone who replied! Glad I could stimulate some debate. You've presented lots of options for us, anyway.

And as Analysis says, some Oracles get an armour effect anyway - my player pointed this out to me before I realised. Ugh, my bad.

And just to clarify, I wasn't really after a 'mage (as in 'arcane') per se, but a character who excels at the healer/buffer role at the expense of limited melee. That seems to be a pretty common archetypoe in most fantasy games or books, and it seemed odd there wasn't a way to tweak a divine caster to be that.

But you've given us lots of divine and non-divine options, so thank you!

(It also solves my annoyance at that iconic who didn't - at first glance - seem very 'iconic' of her class. Now I've read the Oracle Mysteries, it makes sense!)

Isn't the bard the healer/buffer minimal melee class?

Bard

Songhealer Archetype

Scarab Sages

He is if you build him that way. Bards can do melee combat just as well as anyone else if built for it.

Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014, Dedicated Voter 2015

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Here's a crazy concept:
Step 1: Choose Sorceror.
Step 2: Refluff your Sorceror and spells to use divine magic and create a "White Mage" bloodline with powers to match your FF concept.
Step 3: Rename Sorceror "White Mage". Enjoy your new character.
Step 4: Buy large stick to beat back naysayers, traditionalists, RAW-bores and RAI-ders. It's your game.

Or, an Oracle can really work, just don't wear the armour. Give them a bonus feat for losing light and medium armour.

Or a Witch. Plenty of support here for Hedge Witch.

Or the White Necromancer from Kobold Quarterly...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Look in Kobold Quarterly #19 at the 'White Necromancer' Base Class presented there. It sounds a lot like what your guy is after.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Is not the Oracle with the Juju Mystery a more or less White Necromancer? It can even create good undead.


I have played a Oracle who didn't attack, still wore armour because Cure spells are 'touch' so dangerous to use early on. Reach metamagic helped fix this later, plus the feat so I no longer provoked while using Cure spells.


I dunno if this thread is dead or not, but I think I have figured out a white mage, although it's more combat oriented.

Race: Samsaran (with Mystic Past Life alternate racial ability found in Advance Race Guide)

Class: Sorcerer (Celestial Bloodline [Empyreal Wildblooded])

Using the above, let's say the odds are in your favor and you've got 18 in WIS, bumping it up to 20 using the racial bonus. That's 6 spells you get from the Mystic Past Life. You'd pull the Cure Spells from Bard, and you'd get Bless at 3rd lvl from your bloodline. At 9th lvl, you've got Channel Energy. You could drop Extra Channel in your next feat slot, giving you three uses. Couple that with a maxed out UMD and you're pretty much set.

I know this post is messy as I am 3/4ths asleep. I'm running this in my upcoming game and am interested in thoughts on making this more White Mage-esque WITHOUT mulitclassing or using homebrew. I hope that this helps not only the op, but anyone looking for a White Mage Class


Seems to me the perfect concept would be an oracle/sorceror and go mystic theurge as a prestige class.

Grand Lodge

Nicos wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:


There is a 3rd party class that might work. Priest

+1.

You gain more spells, one extra domain, and d8 in the channel ability. The only thing i do not like about the class is that the extra domain is fixed(knowledge), but maybe you DM let you choose another domain.

+1

Also dip for a level of arcane (Staff Magus at 3rd?), more cantrips, access to nearly every wand/staff

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