Vicious Weapons


Rules Questions


If you were say, in a trap, and that trap made you stab yourself with a ritual vicious dagger, Do you take 3d6 extra damage, or 2d6 extra damage?


Vicious wrote:
When a vicious weapon strikes an opponent, it creates a flash of disruptive energy that resonates between the opponent and the wielder. This energy deals an extra 2d6 points of damage to the opponent and 1d6 points of damage to the wielder. Only melee weapons can be vicious.

Before I comment, some threads about the type of damage dealt by vicious.

link
link

tl/dr
vicious is reasonably described as untyped energy damage, however the most common ruling is that the 2d6(opponent) is the same type as the weapon(subject to DR), and the 1d6(wielder) is unavoidable.

regardless
The parts I bolded up top will be the key.
A) can you be your own "opponent"?
B) if you can, can you create the "resonance" with yourself as both parts?

If it's yes to both, then you're looking at 2d6 + 1d6 as separate instances of damage.
If you can't be your own opponent, then the property shouldn't activate at all.


If you crit with a vicious weapon does the D6 damage that is directed back to the wielder multiplied also?


Stikye > No.
A> No.
B> No.
John Change > No. Extra dice of damage are not multiplied, and in any event the die of damage to you isn't from an attack roll and isn't subject to increase from critical hits.


so what if you are a cavalier with spirit charge using a lance and charge... do i only take d6 on myself, or 3d6? do i deal only 2d6 to the enemy or 6d6?

Liberty's Edge

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Its a trap. You design the trap to force you to stab yourself with a vicious dagger with the intent of it applying 3d6. Set the CR appropriately.


Evilserran wrote:
so what if you are a cavalier with spirit charge using a lance and charge... do i only take d6 on myself, or 3d6? do i deal only 2d6 to the enemy or 6d6?

You deal 2d6 to the enemy and 1d6 to yourself.

Multiplying Damage wrote:

Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results.

Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage. So if you are asked to double the damage twice, the end result is three times the normal damage.

Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon's normal damage are never multiplied.


ok so assuming a 10 strength, spirited charge and lance a +2 keen mighty cleaving shocking burst vicious adamantine weapon will deal d8+2 +d6 elec +2d6 vicious on a normal hit, 3d8+6 +d6 elec +d10 elec +2d6 vicious on a normal uncharging critical, 3d8+6 + d6 elec + 2d6 vicious on a mounted charge, and 6d8+18 + d6elec +d10elec + 2d6 vicious on a mounted charging critical?


Evilserran wrote:

ok so assuming a 10 strength, spirited charge and lance a +2 keen mighty cleaving shocking burst vicious adamantine weapon will deal d8+2 +d6 elec +2d6 vicious on a normal hit, 3d8+6 +d6 elec +d10 elec +2d6 vicious on a normal uncharging critical, 3d8+6 + d6 elec + 2d6 vicious on a mounted charge, and 6d8+18 + d6elec +d10elec + 2d6 vicious on a mounted charging critical?

It's and 5d8+10 + d6elec +2d10elec (2d10 for a x3 weapon)+ 2d6 vicious on a mounted charging critical. (All the rest are correct, I think.)

Multipliers are additive in Pathfinder. Think of multipliers as the base hit plus a number of additional hits, and whenever you have more than one multiplier you just add the other additional hits:

-A x3 crit weapon is actually Base hit + Extra hit + Extra hit
-Triple damage on a charge is actually Base hit + Extra hit + Extra hit
-You only ever get one base hit, because you only poked the bad guy once, but you can get as many extra hits as you can dream up.
-Therefore, critting on a charge is: Base hit + Extra hit + Extra hit + Extra hit + Extra hit = 5x damage

3 times 3 is 5 in Pathfinder weapons.


2 year necro?

Grand Lodge

Add merciful and gain Fast Healing to remove the "bad stuff" from vicious. Fast healing 1 is all it would take, as it would heal 1 lethal and 1 nonlethal at once.


ok Akerlof thank you so much for the very concise explanation :) I think i get it now, and i am not really afraid of a D6 damage on my Cavalier/Dragonrider :) 3d6 might have been different, but just 1d6 is laughable.

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