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Transmuter's Physical Enhancement Power and Inability to Cast Spells


Rules Questions


I have a fighter and I want to give him a level of transmutation wizard for the physical enhancement power. However, he has an intelligence below 10 so he can't cast spells. The physical enhancement power is a supernatural in nature but the character chooses which physical ability it effects when they prepare their spells.

My question is would my fighter be able to gain the benefit of the physical enhancement power even though he can't cast spells? What about the telekinetic fist power, which is spell like in nature?


Yes you can use the transmutation school powers even if you cannot cast any spells.

EDIT: As a GM I would seriously question how you got any wizard training in the first place since you can't even cast cantripsin a home game).


You can indeed use the school powers. Just like a low Wisdom Cleric could get Domain powers, or a low Charisma Bard could use Performance. I'm... a little amazed that someone would want to spend a whole level for school powers, but there is nothing stopping you from doing it.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Why would someone study magic to become a wizard when they can't cast any spells? It boggles the mind.

Qadira

Sounds a little MAD to me. kind of like inefficient power gaming.. doing something just because you can is usually not the right reason to do it. however taking one level of sorcerer then jumping over to dragon discple could be fun and make sense whats your charisma like.

p.s. 4 levels of dragon disciple nets you 4 strength and 2 natural armor is why i bring this up. im guessing you did a point buy that looked like
big strength
decent dex
big con
negative all mental stats.


Actually, at INT 10, you can cast cantrips. You have to have a casting stat of 10 + Spell Level. Since cantrips are spell level 0, you just need a 10 INT as a wizard.

That said, it seems silly to me to dip wizard for this, but more power to you. Have fun with it!


Mauril wrote:

Actually, at INT 10, you can cast cantrips. You have to have a casting stat of 10 + Spell Level. Since cantrips are spell level 0, you just need a 10 INT as a wizard.

That said, it seems silly to me to dip wizard for this, but more power to you. Have fun with it!

Correct but the OP stated his int was below 10.


Thanks. Next question; what's the earliest level one could get a 22 in an ability score?


Without items, probably level 8 (18 starting + 2 race + 1 4th-level increase +1 8th-level increase).


Remember that the school bonus won't stack with the bonus from an item.

So for a fighter it's a very suboptimal way to increase your physical stats, unless you know that you aren't going to want an item for that stat *ever* - and in that case why is the stat so important to you that you would sacrifice an entire level for a +1 to it?


Ahorsewithnoname wrote:
Mauril wrote:

Actually, at INT 10, you can cast cantrips. You have to have a casting stat of 10 + Spell Level. Since cantrips are spell level 0, you just need a 10 INT as a wizard.

That said, it seems silly to me to dip wizard for this, but more power to you. Have fun with it!

Correct but the OP stated his int was below 10.

Ah. I misread. I missed the "below" up there. Carry on. *whistles nonchalantly*


Mauril wrote:
Ahorsewithnoname wrote:
Mauril wrote:

Actually, at INT 10, you can cast cantrips. You have to have a casting stat of 10 + Spell Level. Since cantrips are spell level 0, you just need a 10 INT as a wizard.

That said, it seems silly to me to dip wizard for this, but more power to you. Have fun with it!

Correct but the OP stated his int was below 10.
Ah. I misread. I missed the "below" up there. Carry on. *whistles nonchalantly*

LMFAO.. what Does the Fighter/Wizard use his SpellBook for then? Toilet Paper? Back scratcher?? LOLOL


A goblin can have a 22 dex at level one.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Lakesidefantasy wrote:
Next question; what's the earliest level one could get a 22 in an ability score?

Dex: Level 1 (play a goblin) 22 possible out of the box

Str: Level 1 (play an orc) 22 possible put of the box

Alchemical mutagens are good for a +2 to any one physical stat, and are available at level 1.

A raging barbarian gets +4 to Str and Con.
Thus, a first level orc barbarian can go up to Str 26 when raging.


Lord Tsarkon wrote:
Mauril wrote:
Ahorsewithnoname wrote:
Mauril wrote:

Actually, at INT 10, you can cast cantrips. You have to have a casting stat of 10 + Spell Level. Since cantrips are spell level 0, you just need a 10 INT as a wizard.

That said, it seems silly to me to dip wizard for this, but more power to you. Have fun with it!

Correct but the OP stated his int was below 10.
Ah. I misread. I missed the "below" up there. Carry on. *whistles nonchalantly*
LMFAO.. what Does the Fighter/Wizard use his SpellBook for then? Toilet Paper? Back scratcher?? LOLOL

Improvised weapon. :)


Lakesidefantasy wrote:
Thanks. Next question; what's the earliest level one could get a 22 in an ability score?

That is really an open ended question because there are lots of ways to acquire a +2 bonus to a stat.

If you expand on why you want to know you can get a more specific answer.


Lakesidefantasy wrote:
My question is would my fighter be able to gain the benefit of the physical enhancement power even though he can't cast spells? What about the telekinetic fist power, which is spell like in nature?

Sure. He could even use wands of wizard spells, if he were so inclined.


Just to tell you dude this is going to be a bad way to do it. They're enhancement bonuses which means they wont stack with items.


Just core rulebook stuff. And, I'm looking for things that aren't temporary like rage. The transmuter's bonus is effectively permanent.


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Just to tell you dude this is going to be a bad way to do it. They're enhancement bonuses which means they wont stack with items.

To play devil's advocate, say he has 18 Str and 13 Dex. Then he can add the +1 bonus to Dex and invest all of his equipment and stat increases to boosting his Strength.


As Are noted 8th level w/o magical items.
According to wealth by level you could afford a +2 belt of headband (granting a permanent enhancement bonus) somewhere after 3rd level but before 4th if you saved ALL of your gold for that one thing.
The transmutation school bonus could allow a 22 ability score by 1st level.

I can't think of any other early level permanent +2's in the crb.


Why dip wiz for just +1 strength?


Ahorsewithnoname wrote:

As Are noted 8th level w/o magical items.

According to wealth by level you could afford a +2 belt of headband (granting a permanent enhancement bonus) somewhere after 3rd level but before 4th if you saved ALL of your gold for that one thing.
The transmutation school bonus could allow a 22 ability score by 1st level.

I can't think of any other early level permanent +2's in the crb.

Thanks Horse.

A fighter with one level of transmuter could have a 22 ability score (effectively) by 4th level. With a belt he could have a 23, but 23 ain't good enough and it costs a lot of money for a fourth level character. 24 is better; so, is there any way to get one more effectively permanent bonus that stacks with the belt and boost it to 24?


Lakesidefantasy wrote:
Ahorsewithnoname wrote:

As Are noted 8th level w/o magical items.

According to wealth by level you could afford a +2 belt of headband (granting a permanent enhancement bonus) somewhere after 3rd level but before 4th if you saved ALL of your gold for that one thing.
The transmutation school bonus could allow a 22 ability score by 1st level.

I can't think of any other early level permanent +2's in the crb.

Thanks Horse.

A fighter with one level of transmuter could have a 22 ability score (effectively) by 4th level. With a belt he could have a 23, but 23 ain't good enough and it costs a lot of money for a fourth level character. 24 is better; so, is there any way to get one more effectively permanent bonus that stacks with the belt and boost it to 24?

by 4th level? not in the CRB that I know of. Most other bonuses are temporary.


Lakesidefantasy wrote:

Thanks Horse.

A fighter with one level of transmuter could have a 22 ability score (effectively) by 4th level. With a belt he could have a 23, but 23 ain't good enough and it costs a lot of money for a fourth level character. 24 is better; so, is there any way to get one more effectively permanent bonus that stacks with the belt and boost it to 24?

This won't stack with the belt. It's an enhancement bonus. The belt will just overwrite it and you'll simply have lost some health and BAB as well as your capstone for +2 will save. The only Bonuses that I know of that stack with the belt are Druid wildshape (size), Barbarian Rage (Morale), Alchemist Mutagen (Alchemich), or a wish spell (inherent).

Barring any of those you can't get anything else that I can think of that will stack with the belt and only the wish spell is permanent.

Edit, I see you understand that it doesn't stack with the belt. so I offer this. Wish spell. Thats about it. I don't think there's anything else that offers just a +1 bonus and that is for balance purposes.

The only other way would be simply to switch to synthesist summoner and put several levels there


Lakesidefantasy wrote:
Ahorsewithnoname wrote:

As Are noted 8th level w/o magical items.

According to wealth by level you could afford a +2 belt of headband (granting a permanent enhancement bonus) somewhere after 3rd level but before 4th if you saved ALL of your gold for that one thing.
The transmutation school bonus could allow a 22 ability score by 1st level.

I can't think of any other early level permanent +2's in the crb.

Thanks Horse.

A fighter with one level of transmuter could have a 22 ability score (effectively) by 4th level. With a belt he could have a 23, but 23 ain't good enough and it costs a lot of money for a fourth level character. 24 is better; so, is there any way to get one more effectively permanent bonus that stacks with the belt and boost it to 24?

Assuming your con is decent, take a level of barbarian. You'll have enough rage to use it every time you need it, and that's a +4 bonus, which is more than you'll get from anything else. You also will keep your full BAB progression, which is far more important to you than any amount of strength, because it determines when you get that second attack.

Why is it so critical to have a +7 mod at 4th level, anyway?


Min/Maxing I guess, or a thought experiment.


Listen any dip you take for +1 strength won't be worth it end game. Yeah you'll get a 7 modifier if you do find a way but you'll lose your capstone ability

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Listen any dip you take for +1 strength won't be worth it end game. Yeah you'll get a 7 modifier if you do find a way but you'll lose your capstone ability

Not really an issue save for those very few campaigns that go that high, and those that do, generally go higher.

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