How would Arcane Bond work for a Cleric?


Rules Questions


8 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Here is the thought exercise (and note I'm most interested in this question with respect to PFS play - so answers like "house rule" or "DM's choice" aren't very helpful):

A cleric takes Skill Focus: Knowledge (any) and then Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) which grants the cleric the 1st level bloodline power:

Quote:
Arcane Bond (Su): At 1st level, you gain an arcane bond, as a wizard equal to your sorcerer level. Your sorcerer levels stack with any wizard levels you possess when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object. Once per day, your bonded item allows you to cast any one of your spells known (unlike a wizard’s bonded item, which allows him to cast any one spell in his spellbook). This ability does not allow you to have both a familiar and a bonded item.

If the cleric chooses a familiar that's not too hard to figure out - alertness when the familiar is within hand's reach, a bonus based on the type of familiar and the rest of the familiar's abilities determined by the cleric's character level - 2 (per the rules of Eldritch Heritage).

But what is the cleric chooses to get a bonded object, most likely the favored weapon of his or her deity?

Two questions:

1) How would a cleric resolve the ability to "cast any one of your spells known?" (would that mean "cast any Cleric spell you could have prepared?" or "act like a Pearl of Power but for any level of spells you have known - and recast a spell you had previously prepared that day?" (this later is how I would likely rule it if DMing at a home game)

2) Could this Cleric, like a wizard with an arcane bonded object, in PFS play gain the ability (determined by effective sorcerer level - i.e. CL-2) to add magical abilities to the bonded object as if he or she had the required create item feats (the one exception in PFS play)?


That's a very good question. Since the sorcerer power says spells known, one possible, very legalistic interpretation, is that since clerics have no class feature called "spells known" the bond does not function for casting spells. The name "arcane bond" further suggests this because casting divine spells through an arcane bond seems rather hinky. However, I would tend to the more common sense interpretation that spells known means the spells you can cast so therefore all the cleric spells that she can cast count. I'm not sure what PFS would rule however. I would also say that effective sorcerer level should determine the ability to enhance the bonded item as a wizard could. The advantage that this would give would be offset by the vulnerability of losing the arcane bonded item which would greatly hurt a cleric's spellcasting.


I would say since the ability is based on the Arcane Bond given to the Wizard class it would act just like the Wizard's ability, but since a cleric doesn't have a spellbook it would be any one spell their Deity or Alignment (if the cleric has no deity) would normally grant them.

Though as a personal preference I would grant them one more use of a Domain spell to be honest since that is their limited use spell which IMO is the spirit of the Arcane Bond ability.

Scarab Sages

I'd say that these are the important words.
"Once per day, your bonded item allows you to cast any one of your spells known"

So.

While the cleric can cast all the spells on the cleric list, there is no mention of "spells known".

Thus I would say that the cleric has no valid spells to use the arcane bond power on.


I know this isn't going to be hugely helpful, but there's no right answer here. I could even see a reasonable case for the Arcane Bond doing nothing at all. Best answer: expect wild table variatio .

Lantern Lodge

Well it is an arcane item not divine, so allow the cleric to have a spellbook. The cleric cant cast any spell from book except by use of the arcane bond.

Quoting core rule book about wizards arcane bond.
A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared.

I would simply override the "capable of casting" and say that as long as it's of an equal or lower lvl then the cleric can currently cast.


DarkLightHitomi wrote:

Well it is an arcane item not divine, so allow the cleric to have a spellbook. The cleric cant cast any spell from book except by use of the arcane bond.

Quoting core rule book about wizards arcane bond.
A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared.

I would simply override the "capable of casting" and say that as long as it's of an equal or lower lvl then the cleric can currently cast.

The sorceror ability specifically says 'can cast any of your spells known' so the question is whether the spells the cleric knows count as spells known. I would say yes, from a common sense perspective, but I can sorta see how it might be interpreted otherwise.

Lantern Lodge

The sorcerer ability is based directly on the wizards ability but was adjusted for the fact that sorcerers dont have spellbooks. So look at the wizards for the original Arcane Bond.

The pfsrd even has the sorcerer ability link directly to the wizard description of Arcane Bond.

Therefore it is safe to say that a spellbook would work since you do not have arcane spells known.

The cleric spells are divine otherwise they would work.


My point is that there is a PFS legal way for a Cleric, without multiclassing, to end up having an option of selecting an Arcane Bond.

This seems strange, to be sure, but I can't tell what the RAW (or RAI) for this situation would be.

(The Eldritch Heritage feats in general can cause a lot of these very strange edge cases - they can also result in a non-caster class having a Familiar... or for that matter an Arcane Bond)

Personally I think a Cleric with an Arcane Bond is nifty if strange - were I DMing this in a home game I would probably rule that the Cleric's arcane bond works much like a Pearl of Power - just without a level restriction (i.e. for the purpose of the Arcane Bond the cleric's "spells known" for a given day = the spells that the cleric prepared that day - i.e. like a Pearl of Power) - except that the Arcane Bond doesn't "recall" that spell but actually is used during the casting of that spell (and yes this would mean that a cleric would have to justify having both their holy symbol available for any spell requirements as well as their arcane bonded object if these aren't the same thing... )

I would further, again if I were DMing a home game, allow a cleric like a wizard to effectively have their level (or in this case their effective wizard level - i.e. CL-2) create item feats as appropriate for boosting their arcane bonded object. In practical terms this would be, in a home game, rewarding a cleric with the feat investment into Eldritch Heritage with a fairly minor bump in wealth by level with regard to the effectiveness of their bonded item (likely their God's favored weapon), I don't think this is all that overpowered.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Rycaut wrote:

My point is that there is a PFS legal way for a Cleric, without multiclassing, to end up having an option of selecting an Arcane Bond.

Absolutely and completely correct. But beyond enchanting it as would normally it would have no effect, any more than a Fighter chosing that feat would do so. Just because you can choose a feat does not mean that the feat actually has to be useful.

Lantern Lodge

Nevermind, I just realized it said this,

For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2

So that means that he would select spells known as a first level sorcerer and can cast one of those a day through his arcane bond.

He would be able to cast them without his arcane bond because he doesn't have arcane spell slots but that's okay.

I don't agree with using it with your divine spells simply because the ability is arcane, the fluff is arcane, and divine is not arcane.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DarkLightHitomi wrote:

Nevermind, I just realized it said this,

For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2

So that means that he would select spells known as a first level sorcerer and can cast one of those a day through his arcane bond.

He would be able to cast them without his arcane bond because he doesn't have arcane spell slots but that's okay.

I don't agree with using it with your divine spells simply because the ability is arcane, the fluff is arcane, and divine is not arcane.

No. He would have to select them from spells known outside of having the power, just like regular sorcerers. Since he has no spells known, the ability would have no effect.


The easiest way to adjudicate it is to ask yourself- what if a fighter did this, instead of a cleric?

It really makes the answer alot more clear.

The fighter, having no caster levels, gains either a familiar- or an object thats not all that impressive since he can't use its most obvious benefit- the freebie spell.

I do think though that the cleric would have issues with the object bond.
namely- they are still stuck with the penalties. (have to have it to cast spells) even though they get no spell casting benefit.
(the fighter has this prohibition too but since he casts no spells, it effectively means nothing- just like the ACF on his full plate)

Interestingly enough however it appears they (both the fighter and the cleric) would be able to utilize the Enchant feature of it- since the wording itself just says it gives them the appropriate feats. So the fighter would get that Craftsman feat that lets him enchant without being a spell crafter while a cleric would be treated as having forge ring (or whatever) and could go along with that.

Neat way to get a familiar but for the item I'm not sure its worth blowing in two feats to get the benefit of 1 item creation feat. (cept maybe for the fighter, who spends two feats to get two feats, but only applicable to this one item. still weird)

TL;DR:
wouldn't give the cleric a freebie spell per day, but the enchanting part would still work.
Familiar is a better option most likely, though you are blowing in 2 feats to get one.

-S


Selgard wrote:
Neat way to get a familiar but for the item I'm not sure its worth blowing in two feats to get the benefit of 1 item creation feat. (cept maybe for the fighter, who spends two feats to get two feats, but only applicable to this one item. still weird)

Might be worth it if you're stuck with a GM who is stingy with items you can actually use in favor of Yet Another +1 Weapon (At level 10)


True, but.. i mean.. a cleric can take crafting feats anyway, and can use them to make anything not just tinker with one item.

A fighter can take two feats anyway and then make anything available to that feat- rather than just tinker with this one item.

the cleric benefits greatly by just taking 2 crafting feats instead but even the fighter gets alot more bang for his buck- potentially making both arms and armor with one feat (rather than just enchanting one single weapon).

Now in PFS its golden since it lets you enchant your item- though I'm not sure if that aspect of the bond works in PFS. (with the no-crafting thing)

-S


The arcane bonded item is the one exception to the no crafting rules in PFS. Which is partially why I was exploring this idea - decided on a different direction for my specific Cleric but was curious about the possibility for other characters.

Lantern Lodge

So what is PFS? I always thought it was short for Pathfinder though now its clearly not the case.


Pathfinder Society Organized Play


Selgard wrote:
So the fighter would get that Craftsman feat that lets him enchant without being a spell crafter

What makes you think so? He acts as if he was class level -2 for the bonded object, so for the bonded object he has a casterlevel of characterlevel -2 and thus would count as having the right crafting feat for the object.


Slightly related:

Could the cleric take the familiar option, plant the familiar on someone's shoulder, and then cast their cure spells on that person from any distance by channeling them through the familiar?


No but once the cleric is high enough level to share spells the familiar could deliver the touch part of cure spells - but I think to do that needs to start with the cleric and then move.

Lantern Lodge

well in 3.5 both the caster and target had to be touching the familiar to discharge the spell. I know cause I tried every way to Sunday to get around that. Don't know if they kept that in pathfinder though.


DarkLightHitomi wrote:
well in 3.5 both the caster and target had to be touching the familiar to discharge the spell. I know cause I tried every way to Sunday to get around that. Don't know if they kept that in pathfinder though.

...that wasn't how it worked at all. You had to cast the spell with the familiar in touch-range, which could then hold the charge and go anywhere it liked. Which is also how this ability works in Pathfinder.

Lantern Lodge

Nice to know it got changed, my 3.5 days were years ago right after it came out.

Grand Lodge

Does an Arcane Bonded item count as a magic item?

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