Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

3-17 Red Harvest (SPOILERS)


Pathfinder Society GM Discussion

Taldor *****

I am just starting to prep 3-17 to run and one of the monsters is the Great Horned Beetle. I can't find any info on this monster. The PFSRD site doesn't have anything on it and it isn't in any of my beastiaries. Does anybody know anything about this creature?
Secondarily, the lower level Goliath Stag Beetle has a trample of 2d8+16 but the higher level Great Horned Beetle only has a 1d8+16 trample. Do you think that is a misprint?

Paizo Employee ** Developer

Yes, the Great Horned Beetle should have trample damage of 2d8+16, DC 28. There is no further information on the beetle as it is a new monster created for this adventure and thus has no entry in any existing Bestiary. For flavor, I suggest looking at the real-world horned beetle, and just increase its size to Huge instead of Fine.

Also, there should be 2 Goliath Stag Beetles in the low subtier.

I'm making note of both of these changes to update the PDF when we've got a chance.

*

Thanks, Mark, I'm running this tomorrow and could use the extra 4.5 hp damage. :)

Todd, there's also an error on the Royal Naga's spell list:
2nd Level-Hold Person (but he doesn't cast divine spells as arcane ones like many of the other nagas, so it has to be 3rd level).
Bestiary 3 has the same error.

Osirion ****

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Would be great to hear what hapens, Castilliano. I ran this a few weeks ago and was completely surprised by the players. Instead of the party picking one or the other faction, they split and supported different people! Well, at least pretended to support different people. In the end, one of the sides turned on the other, but in the meantime I had to play both nagas in the combat and include all the NPCs. It ended up being a fun (but very long combat) and was as close as I've ever come to having the "no-PVP" rule broken.

*

I did have a question about the stat blocks. In the tactics, it is stated that Dhanishta casts fireballs and scorching rays after buffing up. However, according to the Bestiary, spirit naga do not have the spell scorching ray. Fortunately, the party was in fireball formation, so that worked out okay.

My experience with it:
I ran this module last week for a group of 4 in the lower level bracket (undead sorcerer, witch, paladin, and sorcerer/barbarian).

The scenario went smoothly. The party spent a lot of time discussing what they should do. The two Andorans in the group were hoping that going with Dhanishta 'more modern' path would get rid of the slavery/caste system. The others in the group didn't want to disrupt the local village's ways.

In the end, they ended up bribing the tax collector, but insisted that they escort her to Aishwarya, try and convince Aishwarya to bring more business to the village, and stop the slavery with the nagaji.

Aishwarya was happy to have the tax collector out of the way, and actually on her side, so she of course promised to do whatever the PCs wanted. Whether she could or would do it was outside the scenario anyway!

My party had a very easy time with the final fight since they knew it was coming and had time to buff up beforehand. The sorcerer/barbarian had see invisibility up, so he focused on Dhanishta, cornered her in melee range. I rolled badly, so she failed a lot of her concentration checks. The displacement kept her from dying too quickly. The tripper/striker team was pretty ineffective since they are fairly low level. Taicho failed the save on a ray of enfeeblement, then got hit with some other nasty debuffs. The module had the fight well-planned out, but my party was prepared and killed Dhanishta after several rounds.

*

Alex Greenshields wrote:
Would be great to hear what hapens, Castilliano.

I think a lot of GMs will be surprised by their players on this one. It's a setting more than a story, with great villain design, but little impetus to propel the PCs other than 'a history book'.

I GMed a Monk (super tripper build) with an Evoker, Conjurer, and Bard (buffer) so a bit wonky but they were able to make every skill check to know most everything they needed to and more.
Beetles:
Farmer went down hard, bitten by a blind beetle while a summoned lion harassed the other one. The beetle dropped him to just shy of death when it bit at another critter, then it went to trample. An amazing roll by the monk flipped the beetle on his back, saving the farmer.
Pretty cool watching a several ton beetle get flopped over.

Interviews: They went as expected. Great RPing and deduction, players predicted 2nd request immediately after first. After the first round of interviews, the PCs wanted nothing to do with either side, instead choosing to side with the peasants against the war itself.
Yep, they wanted the book and peace, and for neither side to win.

I think that's exactly what most of my PCs would want too. Both sides are 'bad guys' and there's no hint you shouldn't wipe them all out, or have nothing to do with them and let them kill themselves off. (Whose left to hurt?) I mean, do you really want to create an international incident over a book the country you're in doesn't want you having in the first place?

We took much of our playtime deliberating over 'middle options' until they finally realized they had to choose one of the railroads.
Essentially all the great RPing ended with a really flat decision.
They went against Team Monkey instead of Team Hydra, but not really for any RP reasons, just because it was getting late.

Final Battle: Easy. Straight attack on base w/ lots of short term buffs like Haste up and running, followed by Dim-Door. Monk goes in w/ Stoneskin, AC 35 or so (w/ ki), +7 in accumulated buffs, and Holy flurries that take out the BBEG alone (even w/o tripping) while others (flying) harass the followers and Naga with walls and summoned creatures in very tight confines.
Beautiful execution, and party had lots of resources left (though I got a few good bangs on the Monk).

The map was a deathtrap, a horrible choice. If not in PFS, definitely change the map.
In or out of PFS, you may wish to roleplay the Nagas more aggressively so that PCs feel pressured. Example: Nagas may kill each other (losing PCs' best leads to the book) or might side together to drive this third party out (choose one or fight both).
Use the bartender as the informant if necessary.
Push the envelope and give a sense of immediacy to the finale, that it will happen with or without the PCs (possibly to the detriment of their quest.)
I sort of wish I could have had the planned 'big finale' (outside), but such is the game.

I do dislike the potential penalty if the party decides to take on both sides. (Really? Is it that much worse?) I slipped in a bit during the intro RPing to allude to that.

I also dislike that this "RPing Module" would most easily be solved by a hack-n-slash party. Zero thinking required, and the more you think, the more likely you are to get mired.
Sad.
I'd still run it again though, if only to see the other side in battle. :)

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

I'm GMing this at GenCon, and dont' have the download grant yet, so I haven't read the scenario. When we played it, we wound up with a extra-high-CR fight due to a now-closed weapon going off... (Culverin, I won't miss you, really...)

I look forward to getting to read it soon.

****

I've run this twice now, and my advice would be to really know the motivations of each character. This should really help when trying to keep this within the time window you have. The second time I ran it the PCs tried to talk up almost everyone more than the naga themselves.

At some point you may also have to get insistent that the party make a decision, any decision, about how to proceed if they are deliberating a lot. The first time I ran it I got so caught up in the great roleplaying going on that we ran out of time and had to skip the final battle (which they would have won without too much trouble).

To me, the battle with the most potential to kill a party is the royal naga at the temple (not to mention if they just steal the scrolls). Make sure not to spoil the surprise of what he really is in talking with others, particularly Dhanishta. Remember he has fly - constant so he can just hover over the party deafening and blinding them with his gaze attack while raining down death with his spells. Once most are blinded he can just mop up anyone that can still see.

*

Mike Lindner wrote:

I've run this twice now, and my advice would be to really know the motivations of each character. This should really help when trying to keep this within the time window you have. The second time I ran it the PCs tried to talk up almost everyone more than the naga themselves.

At some point you may also have to get insistent that the party make a decision, any decision, about how to proceed if they are deliberating a lot. The first time I ran it I got so caught up in the great roleplaying going on that we ran out of time and had to skip the final battle (which they would have won without too much trouble).

To me, the battle with the most potential to kill a party is the royal naga at the temple (not to mention if they just steal the scrolls). Make sure not to spoil the surprise of what he really is in talking with others, particularly Dhanishta. Remember he has fly - constant so he can just hover over the party deafening and blinding them with his gaze attack while raining down death with his spells. Once most are blinded he can just mop up anyone that can still see.

I agree with this. The paths are not equal, and the 'trick' to get past him is nearly impossible. (Look at his PER roll.) I think the flight shouldn't be a factor at these levels, but that gaze attack could quickly turn ugly if the party can't operate spread out w/ effective ranged attacks.

I would add that his spell list allows him to spy, and his equal on the other team can spy fairly well too. Though neither starts with a mind to spy except out of curiosity, RPing could spark something, especially if the priest catches the party trying to trick him or scout out the altar.
On the other hand, his alternate could destroy an unbuffed party if they have a lack of AC, or he initiates on his own terms.

I think the theft is actually too easy, if the party can ascertain where the books are. Not too hard for veteran players given the data and limited options. Then they can grab and go. They don't need to fight, just survive, and could magically exit. Too bad there aren't clear statistics on how to get to the books, et al.

****

There is no perception DC to find the scrolls. Last time I ran this the party rolled a 35+ to search the temple, so I let them figure out the altar can be moved. The party assumed that's where the scrolls are, but wisely decided not to just take them.

If I run this again, I wouldn't allow a perception check to find the scrolls at all. I decided the lack of listed DC plus the CL 20 nondetection means they are not meant to be found outside the players being told by an NPC.

If the party has access to teleport or such, it could be an easy win once the scrolls are located. At that point they would likely have already been given permission to study or take them anyway though.

*

Mike Lindner wrote:

There is no perception DC to find the scrolls. Last time I ran this the party rolled a 35+ to search the temple, so I let them figure out the altar can be moved. The party assumed that's where the scrolls are, but wisely decided not to just take them.

If I run this again, I wouldn't allow a perception check to find the scrolls at all. I decided the lack of listed DC plus the CL 20 nondetection means they are not meant to be found outside the players being told by an NPC.

If the party has access to teleport or such, it could be an easy win once the scrolls are located. At that point they would likely have already been given permission to study or take them anyway though.

I was referring to the Priest's PER, BTW, vs. any players trying to slip him the mickey. But maybe you were bringing PER up separately.

There should be a PER DC, even if outlandish. (And at 35+, they do deserve to see them.)
There should be a Hardness, break DC, & h.p. for the altar, even if remarkable because there will be a sundering Half-Orc wanting to take that route.
And because many parties won't be so 'wise' (by which I hear plot/metagame savvy), and given that the alternative is murder, it's more moral to steal them.
And that's the mission, getting the book. I dislike the 'two merciless options only' construction of the module because the agendas of the Nagas are irrelevant and unappealing. "Let me talk to two people so I can choose which to kill for payment (the book)." It's pretty hardcore, and while PFS isn't heroic, many PCs are and will have a great struggle, but the module doesn't address that. It's too busy trying to capture the grit of the original work. (Which I love in this module, BTW.)
Too many of the alternate options are overlooked or patched over w/ a 20th level Nondetection spell, and worst of all, cleaning up the whole mess means failure, even though that's what would be best for the town.

As for the theft, even the lower tier could have Dim Door, and my high tier group had Teleport ready anyway in case they stirred up too much trouble.

/rant, which is kinda long given that I like the module (and the villain builds), but I think it suits home play much better than standardized play.

****

Oh, I see the point in that line of thinking and wouldn't complain at all if I played at your table. I see the point of the scenario though to be having to make that hard choice where you never escape the murky grey area between right and wrong. "Get the scrolls" is just the springboard for the true heart of the scenario.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

If people think they are going to get to be heroes playing characters which are part of the Pathfinder Society, then *they* might be having badwrongfun.

If your character is so stuck on being a hero that you can't do your mission for the Society, then your character might just not belong in the Society at all. Really.

*

TetsujinOni wrote:

If people think they are going to get to be heroes playing characters which are part of the Pathfinder Society, then *they* might be having badwrongfun.

If your character is so stuck on being a hero that you can't do your mission for the Society, then your character might just not belong in the Society at all. Really.

Really 'really'?

I've only seen 'badwrongfun' used sarcastically, as there is no 'badwrongfun', so I'm uncertain if you're serious or jesting.

Otherwise, Wow. So Indiana Jones wannabes need not apply to the society of explorers?
This is like Indy being thrown in Yojimbo or Last Man Standing.
Explorers and artifact seekers are being shoehorned into being 'The Man With No Name'.

As for "stuck on being a hero":
Assassins have to be evil.
Pathfinders can't be.
This module asks for the PCs to assassinate nonthreatening targets.
And unlike the movies, the final targets are non-evil and actually somewhat welcoming to the PCs.
It'd be different if the other highly possible PC throughlines had been developed to:
A. Fight neither side. (Steal or bribe, the Nagas need money for their war and you've just been given a sack of jewels. Written as to provoke the other side, you'd still get your combats.)
B. Fight both sides. (If we're going to take part, let's go whole hog. Guerrilla attacks until both sides are dead. Except then the mission fails?)
C. Manipulate both sides into mutual destruction. (Which, oddly, is the plot the module's based off of, but still the mission fails.)
D. Negotiate peace. (Dull perhaps, but then maybe that provokes the two 'sidekick' targets to attack the party.)
But no, don't think, do. Just kill them already and go home.
Really, that'd be so much easier.
Hmm...

My mercenary, non-heroic players were worried about how getting involved in this bloody power play would reflect on PFS's rep in a new foreign land. So heroism isn't needed to have issues with the module.
In the end, one of the players said "History's written by the victor" by which they finally (after hours of looking for alternatives) threw their weight behind one side.

For the record, again, the setting and villains are well written. GMs should just prepare for players to find their own paths, and to have issues with the advertised plot. The module can easily run over allotted time as players deliberate, so consider the Nagas taking/threatening actions against the PCs to provoke them.
It's worth running.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber
Castilliano wrote:
TetsujinOni wrote:

If people think they are going to get to be heroes playing characters which are part of the Pathfinder Society, then *they* might be having badwrongfun.

If your character is so stuck on being a hero that you can't do your mission for the Society, then your character might just not belong in the Society at all. Really.

Really 'really'?

I've only seen 'badwrongfun' used sarcastically, as there is no 'badwrongfun', so I'm uncertain if you're serious or jesting.

Half serious, half jesting, because there's frequent complaints about anti-hero style characters having so-called badwrongfun at the expense of more-constrained-morality characters.

While assassins have to be evil, targeted strikes are not the sole province of assassins - They're also a favored tactic of

faction snipe!:
Andoran
.

Looks like I'll have similar concerns to you when preparing this, and need to preplan for these sorts of contingencies since it's one of my Gencon events...

Grand Lodge ****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Prepping this now, and it seems to me that there is a way for players to accomplish their Society mission but still fight both sides on behalf of the people of Nibung.

You only fail your mission if all three of the nagas are slain, but two of them at least will run away if wounded. Players could side with the guardian naga in order to get the scrolls, but then offer her an ultimatum to leave since she has failed in her obligations as Nibung's ruler. Or, side with the spirit naga, and deliver the same ultimatum. As long as the royal naga doean't die, the "bloodshed" clause doesn't trigger an auto-fail.

Similarly, as long as a party was warned to avoid killing unnecessarily (which they are), as long as 1 naga is forced to flee before being killed, the party can still remove both rulers and still succeed.

Now, how to guide a party towards that without railroading them... and how to convince the party barbarian that maybe full attacking all the time isn't the best idea! Enemies can't surrender if they go from healthy to dead dead before they can act.

Grand Lodge ****

Prepping this now. Players keep out!

*Wall of Force*

I skim-read this last night and while I'm excited for the combats I feel like I don't have enough flavour on the two factions vying for control of the town to be able to properly give the players the motivations they need to come to a decision to join one or the other. I honestly think they're going to choose a faction based on a coolness competition between Bakji the Samsaran Archer and Taicho the Tengu Swordsman. Maybe I haven't read it in enough detail, but there doesn't seem to be a conflict of philosophy like Good vs Evil or Tradition vs Modernity or even Capitalism vs Socialism.

There is a box of text letting GMs know that the events are very fluid, so I think Scott's situation can work.

I do like the idea that the Pathfinders reject the Nagas ruling over the populace. I will definitely have the Farmer and the Innkeeper remind the party that the town will be in trouble if the majority of the nagas are killed, but not if the nagas flee and escape (and lose their right to be seen as leaders over the Nagaji).

Perhaps this could be our fabled good ending - Pathfinders fight and humiliate the selfish nagas, who surrender and flee into the jungle, never to be seen again. Their respective mercenaries have lost their benefactor and are then open to be disarmed and convinced to lend their services to the town, to start a town watch. With their faith in independent rule restored, the Nagaji can run their own town without interference. Of course, there is always the risk that another Naga will come to lay claim, but seriously, it can't get much worse than the Nagas currently in the town, and if Bakji and Taicho can protect the people, everyone gets a better deal.

Shadow Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, California—San Diego

1 person marked this as a favorite.

@KestlerGunner, To get a feel for the different groups watch any/all of the following:

- Yojimbo
- First full of dollars
- Last man standing

This should give you a feel for the different sides. They have distinct flavors (change vs. tradition) but neither is a paladin-standard 'good' option.

Which is part of the fun for me.

Watching a paladin go into vapor lock, priceless!

Grand Lodge ****

I ran it with a big focus on trade/modernity versus tradition/history. The party couldn't come to a decision. They decided everyone wasn't worth their support but they *really* hated that arrogant snake Avinash, so they decided to try to poison him.

I have massive respect for any rogue that manages to slip that lenoo in 10-11 tier Avinash's stash, his perception modifier is incredible!

My party found the Avinash battle extremely challenging. We had one level 11 monk killed by his Avinash's full attack of bites, even before rend was taken into account. Multiple blinded heroes. One feeble-minded sorceror. The Royal Naga is pretty much the swiss army knife of horrific magical pain. If you really want the party to fail against him, Mage Armour + Shield + Blink (the worst of them all) + his incredible natural armour makes Avinash almost a living god.

Alex Greenshields has made yet another highly dangerous, loathsome big bad guy to contend with Pathfinders. Seems to me a lot of parties would do very badly against Avinash unless they are organised and cohesive as a unit.

Would love to hear about how any party succeeded against Avinash.

Silver Crusade *****

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Mike Linder, I am preparing to run this module on Thursday.

I noticed you mentioned that the Royal Naga can fly. Perhaps I am missing something. Where does it say it can fly?

Thanks

****

Myles Crocker wrote:

Mike Linder, I am preparing to run this module on Thursday.

I noticed you mentioned that the Royal Naga can fly. Perhaps I am missing something. Where does it say it can fly?

Thanks

I just took and look and sure enough he doesn't fly. I was absolutely certain he had Fly as a constant spell-like ability. I must have gotten confused between Avinash and Iltame's stat blocks.

Silver Crusade *****

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Mike,
Thank you. As I am reading and preparing for the PFS game I am going to be running on Friday. I expect I will have a couple of players who will relish in the "role playing" the negotiating etc. There is another player I expect to be there who plays an ill tempered impatient dwarven fighter.

I can just see some players trying to negotiate with the old man at the temple, and the the guy with the dwarf character growing impatient and provoking a combat.

That royal Naga is nasty and dangerous. I thought if he flew, that would make him deadly.

Anyways, I worry about a Party Wipe, etc.....and how to deal with death etc when so far into the hinterlands.

Thanks for getting back to me and answering so quickly,
Thanks,
Myles

Andoran ***** Venture-Lieutenant, California—Fresno aka Sarta

Myles Crocker wrote:
Anyways, I worry about a Party Wipe, etc.....and how to deal with death etc when so far into the hinterlands.

After deafening all but one character and blinding all but one other, I simply had him shoo the two who could hear/see him away, while he casually strolled away unharmed.

He should have little desire to kill the party -- especially if he's able to wipe the floor with them. If he understands that they represent the Pathfinders, he will recognize that killing them will simply bring more. He's in a precarious position that he's currently enjoying -- nobody is giving him orders due to the current balance of power.

However, if the party tries again or poses a real threat, definitely don't hold back.

****

Will Johnson wrote:
Myles Crocker wrote:
Anyways, I worry about a Party Wipe, etc.....and how to deal with death etc when so far into the hinterlands.

After deafening all but one character and blinding all but one other, I simply had him shoo the two who could hear/see him away, while he casually strolled away unharmed.

He should have little desire to kill the party -- especially if he's able to wipe the floor with them. If he understands that they represent the Pathfinders, he will recognize that killing them will simply bring more. He's in a precarious position that he's currently enjoying -- nobody is giving him orders due to the current balance of power.

However, if the party tries again or poses a real threat, definitely don't hold back.

Hmm. I see him differently. What background the scenario provides paints him as an evil old son-of-a-gun that's probably done plenty worse than kill some adventurers foolish enough to attack an old, evil naga. Dhanishta even warns the PCs not to attack him brazenly. To me this is one of those tests of a PC's common sense. When you are getting your butt kicked, sometimes the sensible option is to run away as far and as fast as possible. I say this as someone who failed to do so recently and paid for it.

Grand Lodge ****

If I ran this again, if a PC succeeded their requisite knowledge check against a Avinash, I'd say something like this:

'He is a Royal Naga. You have read in the chronicles that previous Pathfinders who have tried to defeat a Royal Naga within close range have been blinded and deafened by powerful and constant gaze attacks.'

This should hopefully give the party the platform to base some successful tactics from, instead of charging into magical death.

The quest as written pretty much directs the party into combat with Avinash if they ally with Dhanishta. She tells the party to poison him, but with his amazing five-headed perception, it'd take a fantastic rogue to be able to pull this off.

What is more likely is that a very powerful, very arrogant, evil old bastard catches some foreigners trying to poison him. Not going to be light hearted about that, especially if you've spent most of your life ruling over medium sized humanoids with an iron tail.

There isn't much written into the mod to warn PCs that they should run away from Avanishta should it come to a fight.

As I read from the module, the Pathfinder Society is completely unknown in these parts. Avanishta doesn't know, or respect foreigners who claim to be scholars who want to take the annals.

Silver Crusade *****

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Thank you all for your thoughts.

I'll have to go over the scenario with a fine toothed comb again.

This is a tiny village with a population of 58 individuals.

Interestingly the spell casting for the town is 4th level. The notable NPCs are Nagas. I assume

they are the source of the available spells.

Granted I don't expect any of the PCs to die, but should that happen, what next?

They are in a backwater....reasonable how many days away are the PCs in Nibung from getting

acesss to a temple where they could purchase a raise dead spell? a remove blindness/remove deafness spell?

what do you think?

thanks

Osirion ****

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Myles Crocker wrote:

This is a tiny village with a population of 58 individuals.

Interestingly the spell casting for the town is 4th level. The notable NPCs are Nagas. I assume

they are the source of the available spells.

Nibung's stats (including what spells are available) are based on the rules for generating communities from the GameMastery Guide. The nagas are not necessarily those casters, although as a GM, if you want them to be, that would be okay too.

Myles Crocker wrote:

Granted I don't expect any of the PCs to die, but should that happen, what next?

They are in a backwater....reasonable how many days away are the PCs in Nibung from getting acesss to a temple where they could purchase a raise dead spell? a remove blindness/remove deafness spell?

Although this is not spelled out in the scenario, the PCs are at least 2-3 days away from a larger town (probably the unnamed port town mentioned at the beginning of the scenario).

Silver Crusade *****

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Cards, Maps Subscriber

Alex thanks, 2-3 days, that should be enough time for them to haul a corpse to a bigger time before it gets two ripe.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm running this on Thursday, and I've already hit a snag. It seems strange that Amara would suggest that no one in Nibung will speak Tien or Common, even though every statted out personage in the adventure speaks Tien, and many speak Common.

Is this just meant to be a way of making Amara seem foolish, or was the language barrier taken out at the end? What would be a good price for an interpreter, considering they won't even need one (but won't know until they get there)?

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

I expect it was a change in development, and intended to show that even the Tian Xia lodge leadership doesn't now crap about Nagajor.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

That's fine. If they bother with one, I'm going to go with the Scribe cost, which is 1 gp per day. Including travel time, they should be out not very much money at all. There may also be some hilarity if one of my NPCs says "This is annoying, can we just switch to Taldane?"

Osirion ****

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Huh. That actually was an artifact from an earlier version of the scenario where nobody in the village spoke Tien and I had created an NPC translator that Amara assigned to the PCs. It was cut because it was overly complicated and I needed to trim what I had written.

I personally like to insert GMPCs into the party to help explain stuff, especially when exploring a poorly understood area like Nagajor. It's a GM cheat that allows you to pass on useful information in the moment that you had forgotten about when you were writing the adventure, and to fill the players in on backstory. I also like acting out quirky NPCs and doing funny voices, so I insert characters that let me do those things.

Unfortunately, I also like complicated encounters that require a fair amount of explanation, which means that a lot of the "flavor" descriptions of NPCs and places get severely edited to come in under the word count. My perennial goal is to write concisely.

Now you probably know more than you wanted to.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think I'll keep the suggestion of a translator in, and maybe treat him as a Diplomacy boost if they take it. I'll price him at 50 gp. :D

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber

I like my explanation about the mysterious nature of Nagajor as it fits into the extra criteria of the mission...

Cheliax *

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I just played this scenario last week and our party was getting pretty wrecked by the final encounter. I liked the challenge of it so I was looking to prep it for running. However, I noticed a major problem with the way that my GM ran the scenario. We went into the warehouse and talked with Mother and Co. As a Cheliax, I pulled the tax collector to the side to pump her for information. I decided on attempting a snatch & grab at that point in order to remove her from the equation as requested.

However, she avoided my attempt and then the GM proceeded to attack us with the entire entourage (tax collector and Mother and Co.). As I was reading through the scenario I noticed that it clearly stated that the Mother will not assist and will hold her warriors back should the party attack the tax collector (and vice versa). I found it clearly written, but I wonder now if it shouldn't have been in the tactics section.

So instead of 2 separate CR 13 battles, we had a combined battle fighting the oni, naga, her lieutenant and her nagaji.

Our 2 paladin did find it rather annoying that there was nothing evil to smite (except for the oni, but in "our" case, that was 1 monster during a battle versus 6.

A pet peeve of mine is when I go to run a scenario that I played and to find out that the GM went against the listed tactics or situation of an encounter. Although I'm not sure if it bothers me more if it's due to them being unprepared or if they are willfully changing the encounter to make it more difficult.

**** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka Yiroep

I just ran this scenario yesterday, and I have to say that the written part about her holding people back is my least favorite part of the scenario. I understand why it's there for balance reasons, and your GM should have followed it (he may have missed that part, which is unfortunate), but role-play wise it makes little to no sense.

As far as you trying to take her somewhere else forcefully, the naga probably would have protested, but not outright attack. She probably would have said something along the lines of "Do you want to speak to her alone?" and then you would have had to make the diplomacy check to convince her. What your GM did wasn't in line with the scenario, I agree, but there definitely would have been a sharp response from the naga to trying to take the tax collector away, but not an outright attack per the scenario.

As far as having nothing to smite, why should you? What either side proposes isn't necessarily evil...it's more of a lawful vs. chaotic type of situation. It makes perfect sense in this scenario.

Derail:
I would be far more upset if a GM changed an encounter willingly rather than unpreparedness because that's "not knowing better" vs. "I want to intentionally go against PFS rules, which could result in deaths that shouldn't have happened."

Taldor ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Philadelphia aka Iammars

When I played it, we ended up fighting everyone in the warehouse, but that was more because it was because the gunslinger attacked both the tax collector and the naga at the same time. In that case, I could see ignoring that part of the tactics section to have both parties attack us. However, most of the time, I agree that the tactics section for that encounter needed to be followed.

Cheliax ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules Subscriber
Iammars wrote:
When I played it, we ended up fighting everyone in the warehouse, but that was more because it was because the gunslinger attacked both the tax collector and the naga at the same time. In that case, I could see ignoring that part of the tactics section to have both parties attack us. However, most of the time, I agree that the tactics section for that encounter needed to be followed.

Yep. Damn am I glad culverin's are gone.

*

My group didn't think you could attack the Tax Collector without sparking trouble from the Naga. (There's no reason to think she'd stand idly by.)
So they went in fully buffed and had a relatively easy time.

When collecting the Tax Collector, might one of the PCs first attacked the Naga or her minions? (I know I would have out of ignorance.)

Can't sympathize with the Paladin. His saves and immunities would help a lot in this scenario. My biggest complaint as a Paladin would be the assassination requests by both parties being the main (and in some ways only) plot options.

Andoran *****

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Just knocked this one out of the park today with only two fights thanks to massive diplomacy from our bards. A really fun scenario with good roleplaying and table discussion. Can't wait to run it myself.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder Society® / Pathfinder Society GM Discussion / 3-17 Red Harvest (SPOILERS) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.