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I know I have asked too much for today T___T sorry, I just wanted your opinion on this...
"You discover a cure for aging, and
from this point forward you take no penalty to your
physical ability scores from advanced age. If you are
already taking such penalties, they are removed at this
time. You must be at least a 20th-level wizard to select
this discovery."
Does this mean that I *only* don't take a penalty fo my physical ability scores because of age *but* the character will die from old age when her time comes up? or does it mean that she is immortal (as long as she gets fed and doesn't die in a combat and all)
What do you think? (Since the name is also Immortality)
Don't go by names too much when looking at abilties. The rules text is what matters. The text never says you don't age. It only says you don't take the physical penalties. You would still die since it never says that you don't. They should have called it "Eternal Youth" or something like that.
oh thanks so much! I think you are right (I'll have to find some other meaning for that :P)
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At 17th level, a monk no longer takes penalties to his ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that he has already taken, however, remain in place. Age bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when his time is up.Timeless Body
After attaining 15th level, a druid no longer takes ability score penalties for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any penalties she may have already incurred, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the druid still dies of old age when her time is up.
Immortality(Ex): You discover a cure for aging, and from this point forward you take no penalty to your physical ability scores from advanced age. If you are already taking such penalties, they are removed at this time. You must be at least a 20th-level wizard to select this discovery.
Notice any difference in the wording?
A wizard's immortality is just that. The chance to live forever. With appropriate secondary precautions, a wizard becomes effectively unkillable.
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If you truly want to be immortal, play a reincarnated druid, and be 5th level.
That only works until you kill them twice in the same week.
I prefer the saftey net of clones held in multiple pocket dimensions.
That, and most of my interaction with mere mortals will be via Astral Projection. All the fun of meddling in human affairs without ever leaving the safety of home.
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The thing is, when you are reincarnated, you get a new young body, with no age penalties. You still keep all the bonuses to mental stats from before. If you get too old, you go to safe place, kill yourself, and are reborn the next day.
Immortal wizards keep their mental stats and never age. A 25 year old body for forever, if so desired (or a surprisingly spry 95 year old if so desired).
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I wish they had feats and capstones like this for melee types:
"Capitulation: Natural Death has had enough, and just gives up. From this point forward you take no penalty to your physical ability scores from advanced age. If you are already taking such penalties, they are removed at this time. You must be at least a 20th-level Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, Ranger, or Paladin to select this feat."
Melee can get immortality at level 15.
You must be at least a 20th-level Fighter, Rogue, Barbarian, Ranger, or Paladin to select this feat."
Now you're just being mean to the poor muggles. How are they supposed to get a feat, when they're already level 20?
Now you're just being mean to the poor muggles. How are they supposed to get a feat, when they're already level 20?
They get another feat at level 21.
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Notice any difference in the wording?
A wizard's immortality is just that. The chance to live forever. With appropriate secondary precautions, a wizard becomes effectively unkillable.
Correct.
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I FAQ'd the previous post only because it should be plainly stated without having to cross reference other abilities. Generally speaking you don't get to ignore a rule without specific wording that say ____ is ignored.
Why would this be broken? It is pretty much pure flavor.
A PC that lives forever does not mechanically differ when compared to a character that simply ignores age penalties. There are no spells that kill via old age that I am aware of. Any spell that increases the age category of a person would just assign penalties which the variety of ageless class abilities ignores.
Living forever does not mean that suddenly someone has infinite resources, levels, etc. Those are still based on adventuring to gain levels.
- Gauss
I am assuming he meant broken in the sense of it breaks the way most rules are written.
As an example it never flat out says you can't die. It only says you ignore the penalties for aging and forces you to reference another class feature.
I am assuming he meant broken in the sense of it breaks the way most rules are written.
As an example it never flat out says you can't die. It only says you ignore the penalties for aging and forces you to reference another class feature.
I would say that death is a penalty for aging and thus it could be ignored.
I got a question. Are there any actual rules saying your character can't take any actions when it's dead? One of my players pointed this out to me.
He is correct. Unlike conditions such as paralyze, the dead condition does not say you can no longer take actions, and I often use it as a point when people say they play the game RAW, and/or when I want to point out the rules are not perfect and common sense has to step in at times.
I would say that death is a penalty for aging and thus it could be ignored.I am assuming he meant broken in the sense of it breaks the way most rules are written.
As an example it never flat out says you can't die. It only says you ignore the penalties for aging and forces you to reference another class feature.
The book actually says "You discover a cure for aging, and from this point forward you take no penalty to your physical ability scores from advanced age. If you are already taking such penalties, they are removed at this time. You must be at least a 20th-level wizard to select this discovery."
Not taking penalties to your physical scores is not the same as not getting older. For the ability to work as written it would have to stop you from changing age categories.
One the actions while dead thing TOZ once pointed out to me that dieing also does not remove the unconcious condition so you can only act while dead if you went from 1hp or more all the way to dead in a single blow.
Otherwise your unconcious.
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Notice any difference in the wording?
A wizard's immortality is just that. The chance to live forever. With appropriate secondary precautions, a wizard becomes effectively unkillable.Correct.
Can such a character be killed then, if we're talking the title literally? Because an immortal cannot be killed, else he's just mortal.
Can such a character be killed then, if we're talking the title literally? Because an immortal cannot be killed, else he's just mortal.
Notice any difference in the wording?
A wizard's immortality is just that. The chance to live forever. With appropriate secondary precautions, a wizard becomes effectively unkillable.Correct.
You don't die of old age because it says you discover a cure for aging, not a cure for death (clerics found that one out).
Also, outsiders can be killed, but they often refer to themselves as immortal. Depends on how you define the term.
"NO! This cannot be! I am invincible!"
Can such a character be killed then, if we're talking the title literally? Because an immortal cannot be killed, else he's just mortal.
Notice any difference in the wording?
A wizard's immortality is just that. The chance to live forever. With appropriate secondary precautions, a wizard becomes effectively unkillable.Correct.
Then by that definition Gods are Mortal. They have stats. They have Hit points. They can be killed... even if only by each other. That does not make them mortal.
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Actually, it does.
So then your saying there are no immortals. The Immortals(Gods) are mortal. Either A. Your definition is correct and every use of the term immortal should never be used in D&D/PF or B. Your definition of immortal (in reference to tabletop RPGs) is flawed.
Im going to go with option B.
Here is what Wikipedia says on the subject..
Many fictitious species are said to be immortal if they cannot die of old age, even though they can be killed through other means, such as injury. Modern fantasy elves often exhibit this form of immortality. Other creatures, such as vampires and the immortals in the film Highlander, can only die from beheading.
Basicly there are two forms of Immortality. Both fit the definition of Immortality.
1. You cannot die from natural causes
2. You cannot die from any means possible
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Actually, it does.So then your saying there are no immortals. The Immortals(Gods) are mortal. Either A. Your definition is correct and every use of the term immortal should never be used in D&D/PF or B. Your definition of immortal (in reference to tabletop RPGs) is flawed.
Im going to go with option B.
Here is what Wikipedia says on the subject..
Many fictitious species are said to be immortal if they cannot die of old age, even though they can be killed through other means, such as injury. Modern fantasy elves often exhibit this form of immortality. Other creatures, such as vampires and the immortals in the film Highlander, can only die from beheading.Basicly there are two forms of Immortality. Both fit the definition of Immortality.
1. You cannot die from natural causes
2. You cannot die from any means possible
Immortal and invulnerable are two different words for a reason.
Yes. He pointed out to me that without houserules, there is nothing to stop him from continuing to play his character while dead.I got a question. Are there any actual rules saying your character can't take any actions when it's dead? One of my players pointed this out to me.Is this a serious question?
I am sure you read my previous answer to this post. With that said the NPC's follow the same rules as the PC's. :)
With that having been said I suggest you refer to my last post and use RAI and/or common sense when RAW fails.
Immortal and invulnerable are two different words for a reason.
What does that have to do with anything I said? Look Immortal is a term used in two areas. Religion and Fantasy. To describe someone who is either unable to die from natural causes or someone who is unable to die period. The term Immortal is used for BOTH cases in BOTH areas. The Greeks had Gods who could die... they refered to them as immortal. Christians believe that GOD is immortal and unable to die. In Fantasy (which is the only one we really should care about in this discussion) the term Immortal is used through out books, comics, and rpgs to describe individuals that are either unable to die from natural causes or who are unable to die at all. BOTH ARE RIGHT.
What invulnerable has to do with the conversation in any way is beyond me.
Actually the Greek gods were of the "fully immortal" variety -- their immortality meant that they could not die, which is why each generation of gods ends up mutilating and imprisoning the prior generation, since they cannot be killed.
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My point was that there are many many many versions of immortality. I see the wizard discovery as immunity to negative effects of aging as opposed to any of the other variants mentioned.
Invulnerability many or may not come with various immortality packages.