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How to store wands?


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

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Since I started playing PFS a few months ago, I have started to flesh out my characters and trying to give them more personality and uniqueness now that I am more comfortable with the rules.

On that process, my wizard has come with the idea that he would like to keep his wands in several sheaths around his belt for easy access.

1) Is there an item that already exists that fits this need?
2) Can I just claim my wizard has this belt?

In general, how much re-skinning are you allowed to do in PFS?

Thanks!


Vest with inner pockets. Leg sheath, arm sheath. Almost anywhere, really.

***

My personal theme I love to go with is a masterwork Bolt case. If you've seen some real life models, a bolt case is a shaped leather (or plastic) case intended to store bolts in a flat spread. I like mine on a leather harness under the armpit, hence the masterwork even though the design would be much cheaper.

Shadow Lodge **

An adventurers outfit specifically comes with a bunch of pockets, no reason they can't be on the belt.

****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
deltas wrote:
1) Is there an item that already exists that fits this need?

In Core Rulebook explorer's outfit, bolt case (bolt).

In Adventurer's Armory wrist sheath, pocketed scarf, pickpocket's outfit.
In Seekers of Secrets adventurer's sash.

deltas wrote:
2) Can I just claim my wizard has this belt?

Certainly!

**** Venture-Captain, New Jersey aka Shivok

You can buy an Efficient Quiver for 1800gp

Silver Crusade **

Personally, I'm a big fan of the handy haversack for wands, scrolls, alchemist fire, tanglefoot bags, etc. Just reach your hand into your pack, and whatever you're searching for magically jumps into your hand. And as long as you keep it closed, it's waterproof.

The only downside is the price (2000 gp, if I remember correctly), so you can't get it until at least level 3 or 4. And melee types who spend their cash on armor and weapons won't be able to afford it until higher levels.

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Shivok, "a wand is 6 to 12 inches long." Are you imagining that this is "the same size and shape as an arrow"? What kind of bow do you image to have a draw length of 6 to 12 inches?

Andoran *****

Chris Mortika wrote:
Shivok, "a wand is 6 to 12 inches long." Are you imagining that this is "the same size and shape as an arrow"? What kind of bow do you image to have a draw length of 6 to 12 inches?

Medium sized crossbow? Small sized shortbow? :P

**** Venture-Captain, New Jersey aka Shivok

Ninja'd by Seth!

Arrow sizes vary greatly across cultures, ranging from eighteen inches to five feet (45 cm to 150 cm).

[2] However, most modern arrows are 75 centimetres (30 in) to 96 centimetres (38 in); most war arrows from an English ship sunk in 1545 were 76 centimetres (30 in).

[3] Very short arrows have been used, shot through a guide attached either to the bow (an "overdraw") or to the archer's wrist (the Turkish "siper").

[4] These may fly farther than heavier arrows, and an enemy without suitable equipment may find himself unable to return them.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Chris Mortika wrote:
Shivok, "a wand is 6 to 12 inches long." Are you imagining that this is "the same size and shape as an arrow"? What kind of bow do you image to have a draw length of 6 to 12 inches?

??? Arrow sizes vary greatly...from 18 inches to five feet. I don't think I could keep from laughing if I told my players 'nope...sorry you can't keep those narrow shafts of wood in your Efficient Quiver because they're too small'.

To be utterly ridiculous imagine telling the halfling archer he can't keep his arrows in an Efficient Quiver or an Large (or Enlarge Person) bowman that the item is useless (or suddenly you have to decide if items inside an extradimensional space being carried by an enlarged person is enlarged with all the other carried\worn equipment and if so if it's ejected by the quiver).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shivok wrote:

Ninja'd by Seth!

heh

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Guys, the question that Shivok raises is whether an efficient quiver, intended to hold arrows and javelins and bows, can hold wands. You can argue about halflings -- all their equipment is smaller, including both arrows and wands -- or how the restrictions of an efficient quiver interact with enlarged characters. None of that addresses the subject.

I'm not suggesting that Small characters can't keep their arrows in an efficient quiver. I ruling -- at my table -- that that wands don't work that way, for any size character.

And Seth, crossbow bolts don't fit in there, either.

Qadira ***

Chris Mortika wrote:
Guys, ...I ruling -- at my table -- that ...don't work that way, ...

sigh...

just that, sigh...

(edit: YMMV)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Chris Mortika wrote:

Guys, the question that Shivok raises is whether an efficient quiver, intended to hold arrows and javelins and bows, can hold wands. You can argue about halflings -- all their equipment is smaller, including both arrows and wands -- or how the restrictions of an efficient quiver interact with enlarged characters. None of that addresses the subject.

I'm not suggesting that Small characters can't keep their arrows in an efficient quiver. I ruling -- at my table -- that that wands don't work that way, for any size character.

And Seth, crossbow bolts don't fit in there, either.

The entry in question bolded the relevant bit...

Quote:

Efficient Quiver

Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th

Slot —; Price 1,800 gp; Weight 2 lbs.
Description

This Appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about 20 Arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible. The first and smallest one can contain up to 60 objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to 18 objects of the same general size and shape As a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as 6 objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what's placed inside it.
Construction Requirements

Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest; Cost 900 gp

If we want to be pedantic it does not say 'arrows only'. The requirement 'is the same general size and shape as an arrow'. I think if it excludes crossbow bolts because they don't meet some Platonic Form of 'arrowness' is obviously not intended.

**** Venture-Captain, New Jersey aka Shivok

Grue wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:

Guys, the question that Shivok raises is whether an efficient quiver, intended to hold arrows and javelins and bows, can hold wands. You can argue about halflings -- all their equipment is smaller, including both arrows and wands -- or how the restrictions of an efficient quiver interact with enlarged characters. None of that addresses the subject.

I'm not suggesting that Small characters can't keep their arrows in an efficient quiver. I ruling -- at my table -- that that wands don't work that way, for any size character.

And Seth, crossbow bolts don't fit in there, either.

The entry in question bolded the relevant bit...

Quote:

Efficient Quiver

Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th

Slot —; Price 1,800 gp; Weight 2 lbs.
Description

This Appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about 20 Arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible. The first and smallest one can contain up to 60 objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to 18 objects of the same general size and shape As a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as 6 objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what's placed inside it.
Construction Requirements

Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest; Cost 900 gp

If we want to be pedantic it does not say 'arrows only'. The requirement 'is the same general size and shape as an arrow'. I think if it excludes crossbow bolts because they don't meet some Platonic Form of 'arrowness' is obviously not intended.

It doesnt specify that it has to be arrows, bows, spears, etc just objects similiarly sizes as such...

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Yep. Arrows and bolts are not the same thing, not interchangeable, and not even close to the same size. (If the quiver had space for bolts, I would rule that wands would fit there.

If you've got a staff, about the same size as a javelin, that works in an efficient quiver.

--+--

nosig sighs dramatically. But really, what's the alternative? I'm not trying to insist that I'm objectively right, that everybody in PFS has to agree with me and follow the rules as I see fit. Nor am I trying to badged Paizo staff into making a ruling and getting it posted on the FAQ.

Rather, I'm looking at a gray area and letting people know how I, as a table GM, would rule, and I'm outlining my reasons.


Grue wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:
Shivok, "a wand is 6 to 12 inches long." Are you imagining that this is "the same size and shape as an arrow"? What kind of bow do you image to have a draw length of 6 to 12 inches?

??? Arrow sizes vary greatly...from 18 inches to five feet. I don't think I could keep from laughing if I told my players 'nope...sorry you can't keep those narrow shafts of wood in your Efficient Quiver because they're too small'.

To be utterly ridiculous imagine telling the halfling archer he can't keep his arrows in an Efficient Quiver or an Large (or Enlarge Person) bowman that the item is useless (or suddenly you have to decide if items inside an extradimensional space being carried by an enlarged person is enlarged with all the other carried\worn equipment and if so if it's ejected by the quiver).

No, what's ridiculous is casting Enlarge person on a bowman. As soon as you shoot that arrow when your enlarged, it shrinks back to regular size, and does normal damage. It's why we have Gravity Bow :D

Qadira ***

I only wish you had chosen your phrase better - or maybe even stated that you "feel this is abuse of the magic item, but would someone like to present the other side of the subject so we can discuss it in an intelligent fashion". Then when they said "because I WANT it to work this way!" the rest of us would have been moved to listen to your side more than the other. Instead to have it said like...

"Guys, ...I ruling -- at my table -- that ...don't work that way, ... "

it gives us all flashbacks to those games with the Judge that just has a different picture on how things work than we do, and wont listen to our side of the picture. It could be the guy who says... "Rogues can't sneak attack Giants in MY game" or "you can't play cross-gendered characters at my table" or "I don't care what the rules say, that's the way it works at MY table", or a hundred other things I have encountered.

I have not personally had much experience at this view of the Quiver. My opinion is still much in flux. You did not help form it much your way. That's what the sigh was about. yours' is an opinion I would normally pay attention to. Framed as you did so tends to lessen the impact of what you are trying to say.

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Thanks, nosig. That was helpful.

**** Venture-Captain, New Jersey aka Shivok

Chris,

Is the concern that a player character may try to use this as a free action get the wand of their choice from their storage area?

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.

To quote Mad Eye Moody

...
not in your back pocket, unless you want to loose a buttox

Qadira ***

Chris Mortika wrote:
Thanks, nosig. That was helpful.

I really do hope so.

Home Game Spoiler:

In a home game I play in this has also come up. Realizing that in no way is this PFS I am talking about(being a home game) I offer it as a different view point.

Our GM there rules that you can use the quiver to store wands as arrows, Scrolls as Javelins and Staffs as spears, BUT that each section must contain items of the same basic size/shape. If using the smallest section to hold wands - it is normally used JUST for wands (up to 60! ha!). The Javelin section has the 2nd rider that scrolls (having two rods they are rolled on) take 2 'slots' each, so up to 9 scrolls. The staff section, if holding both staffs and bows, the bows must be unstrung, so that are basicly the same shape as the other items stored there.

But again, this is just the rules IN THAT HOME GAME.

Perhaps we should have some of them here as well?

lacking 'house rules' (or FAQs) we are left with

Quiver:


Efficient Quiver
Aura moderate conjuration; CL 9th
Slot —; Price 1,800 gp; Weight 2 lbs.
Description
This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding
about 20 arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a
nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would
normally be possible. The first and smallest one can contain up
to 60 objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The
second slightly longer compartment holds up to 18 objects of the
same general size and shape as a javelin. The third and longest
portion of the case contains as many as 6 objects of the same
general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once
the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item
she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or
scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what’s
placed inside it.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest; Cost 900 gp

Qadira ***

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

the line in the item discription:
Once
the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item
she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or
scabbard.

causes me to comment twice.
1) does the owner have to fill all slots before he can extract something from it? (you would be surprise at the silly things people read into discriptions like this!)
2) when do you carry arrows, javelins or bows in "scabbards"? does that mean this will hold swords, daggers, knives, axes, etc? If I can't put my wands here, do I have to put them in the wand scabbard at my belt?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Marthian wrote:


No, what's ridiculous is casting Enlarge person on a bowman. As soon as you shoot that arrow when your enlarged, it shrinks back to regular size, and does normal damage. It's why we have Gravity Bow :D

Didn't mean to imply that an enlarged pc was using it for a larger size type arrow. I have seen situations (flying or very mobile combats) where a fighter had to switch from melee to ranged mid-battle (arrows shrink the moment after being fired of course). Pointing out the complications that arise with arrows under Chris's interpretation from a pretty common spell effect.

Using a quiver of ehlonna\efficient quiver as a 'golf bag' of sorts I thought was a pretty well known grognard tip\trick even in 1e days. Not even allowing bolts in the quiver is a unique interpretation IME and given the actual item description probably not one the OP will have to worry about in regard to storing a 12 inch shaft of wood in the magic item in question.

Qadira ***

I guess we need a new magic item...

Wizard's efficient quiver
holds Wands, Scrolls, Staffs... oh, and Flasks (acid, Alchem. fire, etc).

Shadow Lodge **

Quote:
Yep. Arrows and bolts are not the same thing, not interchangeable, and not even close to the same size. (If the quiver had space for bolts, I would rule that wands would fit there.

Ok.. thats just.. bizarre. What object in the game is closer to the size and shape of an arrow than a bolt? Most people couldn't even tell the things apart.

Qadira **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

My magus uses an efficient quiver for her wands and hasn't had any problems with it.

Qadira **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
teribithia9 wrote:
My magus uses an efficient quiver for her wands and hasn't had any problems with it.

Sorry I don't seem to have the option to edit my own post. But I also wanted to point out that I measured an arrow from the bow and arrow set I had in high school (not a toy, but made for youth/girls) and the arrow was about a foot long, which is why I considered the quiver to be able to hold the wands.

Given that the core rulebook doesn't actually list a length for arrows, I think it's pretty reasonable to assume you can put rods and wands in the thing.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

@Chris Mortika: Out of curiosity, what non-arrow items would you allow to be drawn from the arrow compartment of the Efficient Quiver?

Qadira ***

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:
Yep. Arrows and bolts are not the same thing, not interchangeable, and not even close to the same size. (If the quiver had space for bolts, I would rule that wands would fit there.

Ok.. thats just.. bizarre. What object in the game is closer to the size and shape of an arrow than a bolt? Most people couldn't even tell the things apart.

I actually have a hunting crossbow - and I've fired (modified) arrows in it. (wanted to see if there was much difference in the flight of the arrow or the bolt. There wasn't much - maybe a slight bit of range on the bolt). It's just a touch harder to load and arrow, because I have to slide the arrow thru the forward sight - but without the fancy sight it would be the same.

The modification by the way is to cut the notch off the arrow - my bolts have no notch.

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Teribithia,an arrow has to accommodate the draw length of the bow, which is something like the length of your arm, plus the distance from the rest-position of the string to the nock, plus an inch or two. I'm trying to figure out how you can do that in 12 inches.

Jiggy, any stick that's somewhere between 24 and 60 inches. If I had the time, I'd go through the equipment and miscellaneous magic items sections.

--+--

One thing I've learned about the Pathfinder RPG rules is that common sense takes aback seat to the plain black-on-white rules. It might "make sense" for a feat that allows a character to speedily drink a potion, to also speedily drink an elixir or alchemical mutagen, but it doesn't. It might "make sense" for a rod that increases the radius of fireball to also increase the radius of black tentacles, but it doesn't. And the efficient quiver specifies arrows or things about the same size as arrows, not ammunition in general.

--+--+--

All of this is besides the point. If your character wants to be able to have immediate access to her wands, there's already an item that provides that: the spring-loaded wrist sheath.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Chris Mortika wrote:
Jiggy, any stick that's somewhere between 24 and 60 inches. If I had the time, I'd go through the equipment and miscellaneous magic items sections.

I would encourage you to allow access to wands and crossbow bolts in an Efficient Quiver until such time as you come up with more appropriate items to allow instead, and here's why:

It's obvious from the Quiver's text that the section allows something besides actual arrows, so whatever item(s) are closest must be allowed. At the moment, I can't think of any non-arrow that's closer to arrow dimensions than bolts and wands. Therefore, if I were to disallow those, I would only be allowing actual arrows, which is obviously wrong.

If you found something that's more similar to an arrow than is a wand or bolt and allowed that, then drawing the line between that item and wands would make sense. So I would encourage you to either allow wands/bolts or come up with a more appropriate item. I can't think of any other reasonable approach.

Quote:
All of this is besides the point. If your character wants to be able to have immediate access to her wands, there's already an item that provides that: the spring-loaded wrist sheath.

Wait a second... Were you thinking people were wanting to draw their wands from the Quiver as a free action or something?

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

That's the purpose of an efficient quiver, Jiggy, yes. You draw arrows as a free action. If you've got wands there, in the quiver slot, you draw them as if you were drawing things from a quiver, according to the wording of the magic item. That is to say, ammunition. That is to say, as a free action.

So, if not, then people are talking about using wands (not arrows) and drawing them as a move action (not a free action)? Then just draw a wand out of your belt pouch or, if you want to avoid provoking an attack of opportunity, your handy haversack. The ammunition compartment of an efficient quiver is the wrong magic item for the job.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Chris Mortika wrote:
That's the purpose of an efficient quiver, Jiggy, yes. You draw arrows as a free action. If you've got wands there, in the quiver slot, you draw them as if you were drawing things from a quiver, according to the wording of the magic item. That is to say, ammunition. That is to say, as a free action.

Wow, how generous you are all of a sudden! ;)

Efficient Quiver wrote:
Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can quickly produce any item she wishes that is within the quiver, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard.

1. It doesn't specify an action.

2. It says "as if from a regular quiver or scabbard".

This seems clear to me that you draw the item the same way you would if you were drawing said item from whatever container it would normally be in. Thus, no change in action just for having it in the Efficient Quiver. By extension, then, nothing unbalancing about putting wands in it.

Quote:
So, if not, then people are talking about using wands (not arrows) and drawing them as a move action (not a free action)? Then just draw a wand out of your belt pouch or, if you want to avoid provoking an attack of opportunity, your handy haversack. The ammunition compartment of an efficient quiver is the wrong magic item for the job.

Perhaps they already have the EQ for their Javelins of Lightning and their 3 different bows (composites with different STR ratings). Since they already have the EQ, maybe they just want to stick their wands in that instead of getting a separate handy haversack? Or they just want everything in the same place?

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:


Wait a second... Were you thinking people were wanting to draw their wands from the Quiver as a free action or something?

Yes - as Chris is saying. A considerable number of players will use the same reasoning that you can store a wand because it is size wise similar to an arrow that you then also can draw it like an arrow.

This is the whole reason to use a quiver and not a Handy Haversack which otherwise is much more practical as it stores anything as far as I can see. The 200gp isn't really much of a handicap. It is even worse, as it doesn't say you avoid attacks of opportunity when drawing a wand from the quiver.

As a GM I'm now in a tough spot. According to table 8.2 I treat the wand as a stored item - retrieval = move action + AoO or I treat it as ammunition - retrieval = free action - no AoO.

Guess which ruling a player prefers.

edit:
Compare this to Handy Haversack: Move action - no AoO.

I just don't see why you even would want to use a quiver if it isn't because you have an advantage towards the Handy Haversack.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Thod - have you forgotten that it's not safe to put sharp things in a Handy Haversack? So if you carry javelins (or even better, Javelins of Lightning) or similar things, you'll want the quiver. And if you already have the quiver, then why would you want to also get a Haversack for your wands instead of keeping them all in one place?

That's the reason for putting wands in an EQ, as I see it.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Netherlands—Leiden

Jiggy wrote:
Have you forgotten that it's not safe to put sharp things in a Handy Haversack?

I think that's only a problem with bags of holding...

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Auke Teeninga wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Have you forgotten that it's not safe to put sharp things in a Handy Haversack?
I think that's only a problem with bags of holding...

Which the Haversack references for its own functionality.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Perhaps they already have the EQ for their Javelins of Lightning and their 3 different bows (composites with different STR ratings). Since they already have the EQ, maybe they just want to stick their wands in that instead of getting a separate handy haversack? Or they just want everything in the same place?

Well as Thod posted it is slightly better than a Handy Haversack for wand storage since the Quiver counts as 'sheathing' (or otherwise easy reach) rather than stored in a pack. It's always a move action to retrieve an item from the Handy Haversack. If the pc has a +1 BAB drawing a weapon or wand is a free action if combined with a move action (Draw or Sheathe a Weapon pg 186).

The drawback to carrying wands in an EQ, or anything else in extradimensional storage space for that matter, is that anything inside is inaccessible if you enter another extradimensional space like the one created by Rope Trick. Certain otherplanar adventures or dungeon features may also affect access (those situations are typically rare but depending on your DM YMMV;-).

And the other big drawback (especially if you are carrying all your wands in one basket) is if the quiver is destroyed you'll lose all the contents (see Bag of Holding). Granted, most DMs don't deliberately use sunder attacks on Bags of Holding\Handy Haversacks\Efficient Quivers (more than once...makes most players grumble alot), but if your PC dies during a combat and the body is caught in a damaging area of effect all the equipment is considered unattended for purposes of damage.

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber

Jiggy

I've never seen a player using a javelin of lightning. It is quite expensive for an arcane spell caster. A fighter who might get more use out of it isn't that good in using wands.

So I'm not sure how common this special combination is.

And if you can spend 1500 gp on multiple single use items you might be able to affort both - the handy haversack and the quiver. So I'm just not seeing the advantage.

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber

Grue

wand = weapon ??

Yes - you only get the advantage if you treat the wand as ammunition or weapon. I looked up CRB and couldn't find a wand being described as a weapon. Is there a ruling somewhere?
As far as I rule it so far - a mage with wand in his hand isn't threatening as it is no weapon and he doesn't get an AoO with the wand. If it is a weapon than this should follow as well.

edit:
Just checked the boards / rules and looks drawing / sheating weapon also is valid for wands. So ignore the above.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Thod wrote:

Grue

wand = weapon ??

Yes - you only get the advantage if you treat the wand as ammunition or weapon. I looked up CRB and couldn't find a wand being described as a weapon. Is there a ruling somewhere?
As far as I rule it so far - a mage with wand in his hand isn't threatening as it is no weapon and he doesn't get an AoO with the wand. If it is a weapon than this should follow as well.

Bolded relevant part...

Quote:

Draw or Sheathe a Weapon

Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.

If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.

Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action

Grand Lodge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales Subscriber

Grue

Yes - found it as well. Just was interupted here while editing my original text. Always here also to learn.

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Thod wrote:

Jiggy

I've never seen a player using a javelin of lightning. It is quite expensive for an arcane spell caster. A fighter who might get more use out of it isn't that good in using wands.

So I'm not sure how common this special combination is.

And if you can spend 1500 gp on multiple single use items you might be able to affort both - the handy haversack and the quiver. So I'm just not seeing the advantage.

I was just coming up with off-the-top-of-my-head examples. But it's beside the point anyway. The EQ's arrow section allows things besides just arrows, so you have to come up with something to go in that category. It's either wands and crossbow bolts, or something else that's closer to arrow dimensions than wands/bolts are. But it has to be something.

So until someone (myself included) thinks of something more appropriate than a wand, my choices are "allow wands" or "allow only arrows". The latter is cheating, so either we allow wands or we find that other mystery item.

Andoran *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Best place to store wands is to stick it...mumble mumble mumble Kyle...mumble mumble mumble Bob...

And there you go...

;)

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Thod wrote:

Grue

Yes - found it as well. Just was interupted here while editing my original text. Always here also to learn.

It's pretty easy to miss, isn't it? The next thing you'll run into is "so that means you can Quick Draw a wand, right?", and then you have to chase down the Quick Draw text which disallows it. Honestly, I wish they'd either remove the limitation on Quick Draw or remove the lenience on weapon-ness, so at least it'd be consistent. :P


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Jiggy wrote:
So until someone (myself included) thinks of something more appropriate than a wand, my choices are "allow wands" or "allow only arrows". The latter is cheating, so either we allow wands or we find that other mystery item.

[Shrug]...the advantage to playing a tabletop rpg over a crpg or mmo is you have a DM. Even the most railroady campaign is a sandbox compared to a computer game. Storing wands in a Quiver of Ehlonna makes sense and given the description also seems to be part of the intent. I'd have to dig into my collection but I seem to remember Gygax putting a quiver in WG6 Isle of the Ape (belonging to Tenser or a pregen?) and using it for that purpose. Heh, I could be misremembering but not motivated enough to dig it up (and off to work in a few mins anyway;-).

On a wand related issue the silly but mechanically correct way to simulate 1e\2e wands (they had lots of different effects) in pathfinder is to make a staff two size categories smaller than the intended wielder (turning a two-handed weapon into a light weapon with a -4 penalty to wield in combat). A medium staff becomes a fine staff...18 inches long if originally 6 feet which would be at the bar for arrow sized;-).

Grand Lodge ** RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Grue wrote:
the advantage to playing a tabletop rpg over a crpg or mmo is you have a DM. Even the most railroady campaign is a sandbox compared to a computer game.

Keep in mind a couple of things:

1) This is the PFS forum, and organized play GMs are expected to run their sanctioned games "by the book" to the best of their ability, even if they don't agree with every little detail.

2) Careful with the "Pathfinder's not a video game" argument. Comes with a lot of baggage, as it's often used as an escape hatch for those who fear accountability. Doesn't sound like you, but I thought I'd point it out in case you might like to avoid the phrase in case it causes someone to dismiss you out of hand sooner or later, you know? :)

Qadira ***

other items that are arrow like and could be stored in a EQ?

Darts - combat darts were originally ...ah... wand sized, about a foot long wooden shaft with a heavy metal tip (picture a lawn dart without fins).

Daggers - the long thin throwing knife type. Much like the dart above, except all metal construction.

Jo stick - (billy club)

blow gun - 3' bambo tube for fireing darts.

I'm kind of reaching here though.

other questions.

If I store Javelins in an EQ can I draw them like arrows?

If I store a Staff in an EQ can I draw it as a free action?

Can I draw a Bow from an EQ as a free action?

Why should I be able to draw a wand if I can't draw a Staff or Bow?

Is the intention to disallow storing a wand in a EQ to prevent it being drawn as a free action - something we are already ruleing you can only do with ammo stored in an EQ... the other items stored there are drawn like they are, ah, items other than ammo. Ammo is drawn like it's ammo, everything else is drawn like... well, "not ammo".

I do not see storing Wands in an EQ as a problem - any more than I can see storing Wands in an normal quiver a problem. And, yes, you can ammo draw (arrows/bolts/etc) from a quiver like it is ammo. Wands drawn from a normal quiver would be drawn as Wands... (unless you are going to shot them in a bow/crossbow maybe).

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