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Weretarantula - Six arms, three bows


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew


Hello all, I've just started working on a lycanthropic jungle giant/giant tarantula. Since I'm already starting to get into homebrew territory by using a vermin as the base animal for a lycanthrope, I figured I'd go all-out.

Jungle giants are notable for their bows, so the logical conclusion (to me at least) of an eight-limbed hybrid form is that they have six arms, and should thus be able to triple-wield longbows.

What I'd like a bit of assistance on is how to handle firing three ranged weapons in one round, especially as the jungle giant has a high enough BAB to make additional attacks with a full attack. I don't think there's official rules anywhere for wielding multiple bows, so if anyone has any knowledge of how to make this work well, I'd appreciate help.

--Edit: Oh, Jungle Giant is Bestiary 3 page 129, and Giant Tarantula is Bestiary 3 page 256 by the way.


Multiattack or Two weapon fighting feats.


Why not have it wield 5 crossbows? That could be ridiculous.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I understand that folks (rightfully) don't like reality to intervene in D&D due to the magic and all that.. but that having been said.

I'm having serious issues imagining something shooting more than one bow. I can imagine a marilith (for example) swinging and slashign with various 1h swords, axes, or whatever.. but the actual, practicals of holding, aiming, and drawing bows just ties my imagination in a knot when it comes to doing that same thing with 3 bows.

Am I missing something?

-S


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Selgard wrote:

I understand that folks (rightfully) don't like reality to intervene in D&D due to the magic and all that.. but that having been said.

I'm having serious issues imagining something shooting more than one bow. I can imagine a marilith (for example) swinging and slashign with various 1h swords, axes, or whatever.. but the actual, practicals of holding, aiming, and drawing bows just ties my imagination in a knot when it comes to doing that same thing with 3 bows.

Am I missing something?

-S

8 eyes = 4 targets. (at least for aiming)


I like the idea of "Verminthropes". But a were-arachnid in my opinion should have 4 legs and only four arms to equal eight limbs. It would get a +4 vs Trip and the extra attack from the extra set of arms. However, I would also argue that if such a creature wants to use multiple bows, then they would have to be short bows. Long bows seem too far fetched. I DO like your idea though. Oh, and what about the mindless quality? Wouldn't a were-vermin also get that?


Borthos Brewhammer wrote:
Why not have it wield 5 crossbows? That could be ridiculous.

I would be, but I went with jungle giant as the base humanoid, and they're noted longbow wielders. Figured I'd stick with the theme.

Selgard wrote:

I'm having serious issues imagining something shooting more than one bow. I can imagine a marilith (for example) swinging and slashign with various 1h swords, axes, or whatever.. but the actual, practicals of holding, aiming, and drawing bows just ties my imagination in a knot when it comes to doing that same thing with 3 bows.

Am I missing something?

-S

I've been trying to figure out how it would work too. It's awkward trying to pose myself as if I had extra arms, but I think it does manage to be workable if the bows are arranged with the highest two left arms shooting the leftmost bow, the lowest left arm and lowest right arm shooting the middle bow, and the highest two right arms shooting the rightmost bow).

Can't quite be sure of how the two bows that are fired with arms on the same side of the body would work in real life, as I don't have two arms on the same side of my body to test it with, but I think they can conceivably hold it steady, point it forwards, and pull back a bowstring correctly. If I can get a friend to agree to serve as a second set of arms for me in testing this, I might try it out (their right/left arm acting as the one holding the bow itself, with my arm acting as the second one that pulls back the string).

By human archery standards I'm pretty sure the aim would be messed up beyond belief, but I'm sure a six armed person who regularly wields three bows would have learned to compensate for the odd firings, and would have learned to aim appropriately, especially for a natural weretarantula lycanthrope who would have had access to the three-bow style all their life, and would have had time to figure out how to make up for any aiming irregularities. Same can be said for drawing bows. If you've had six arms all your life, presumably you know how to draw your weapons without tangling your own limbs, even if it may seem awkward for a two-armed person to imagine how it would be done.


Arcanemuses wrote:
I like the idea of "Verminthropes". But a were-arachnid in my opinion should have 4 legs and only four arms to equal eight limbs. It would get a +4 vs Trip and the extra attack from the extra set of arms. However, I would also argue that if such a creature wants to use multiple bows, then they would have to be short bows. Long bows seem too far fetched. I DO like your idea though. Oh, and what about the mindless quality? Wouldn't a were-vermin also get that?

Since this does dip into homebrew, I figured the hybrid form wouldn't pick up mindless. After all, it has the intelligence of the humanoid form to draw on. The full animal form might be mindless though... And perhaps the hybrid form would pick up resistance, or maybe a sort of 50% concealment against mind-affecting effects due to being "half mindless"

As for the arms vs. legs limb problem, I opted to make it work as follows:

Multi-limbed (Ex) A weretarantula has eight limbs in hybrid form, two arms, two legs, and four limbs which can act as either arms or legs. If these four extra limbs are holding nothing. the weretarantula acts at all times as if under the effect of a spider climb spell and receives a +8 bonus to its CMD vs. trip attempts. If these limbs are used to wield weapons these bonuses do not apply, and the weretarantula may not use its climb speed for as long as the extra hands are full.

And as I discuss above, longbows are far-fetched, but I think possibly conceivable for someone who has had six arms all their life, and plenty of time to practice. That, and I wanted to keep the Jungle Giant/longbow thing.


Catprog wrote:
Selgard wrote:

I understand that folks (rightfully) don't like reality to intervene in D&D due to the magic and all that.. but that having been said.

I'm having serious issues imagining something shooting more than one bow. I can imagine a marilith (for example) swinging and slashign with various 1h swords, axes, or whatever.. but the actual, practicals of holding, aiming, and drawing bows just ties my imagination in a knot when it comes to doing that same thing with 3 bows.

Am I missing something?

-S

8 eyes = 4 targets. (at least for aiming)

Aren't they all on the same head though?

I mean- if the eyes aren't on the "head" part then that fixes it somewhat. if a breed of spider had 'emd own the sides that could actually work out fairly handily since they'd have to line up the arrow with that eye rather than the head.. It would, in fact, make the whole thing more workable.

-S


So you're saying Zen Archer might actually work for this race, eh?


Why not make the were-tarantula a dagger-wielding rogue and get six sneak attacks per round instead?

The Exchange

There was an article in Dragon (?) magazine back in the day that had rules for vermin-based Lycanthropes....think it was for 3.5 but it may have been for 3.0, not sure. I just remember the Werewasps and stuff....


The more I think about this I think a weretaratula would use 1/2 its limbs as legs and 1/2 as arms. So at most it could wield 2 bows. I agree with the OP that a natural weretaratula would learn how to use its limbs. An infected weretaratula would be a different story at least initially. Also I think this creature would need ambidexerity to wield bows in both his left and right hands.
Alternately we could argue that a weretaratula hybrid is more like a drider and not be able to wield two bows.
That's my 2 cents.


Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Why not make the were-tarantula a dagger-wielding rogue and get six sneak attacks per round instead?

The base tarantula is gargantuan-sized.

For some reason a gargantuan creature wielding daggers just seems silly to me (as does anything that big trying to be a rogue). Then again, it's a weretarantula, so perhaps silly is unavoidable.

And again, I could do that, but for this one I want to do Jungle Giant with the longbows. Though heck, when I get this one done I'll technically have the material for a weretarantula template, and could apply it to any number of class/weapon combos that strikes my mind. 5 crossbows, 6 daggers, a storm giant pirate lord with 6 hook hands... Or if I want to get really ridiculous, a weretarantula with at least two levels of alchemist and the extra discovery feat can stack 2 vestigial arms on top of the 6 it already has.


Great. Now I have to go do a write up of ananasi...


Ohh, a lycanthrope who can turn into a swarm... Why did I not think of that? :D


Gluttony wrote:

Hello all, I've just started working on a lycanthropic jungle giant/giant tarantula. Since I'm already starting to get into homebrew territory by using a vermin as the base animal for a lycanthrope, I figured I'd go all-out.

Jungle giants are notable for their bows, so the logical conclusion (to me at least) of an eight-limbed hybrid form is that they have six arms, and should thus be able to triple-wield longbows.

What I'd like a bit of assistance on is how to handle firing three ranged weapons in one round, especially as the jungle giant has a high enough BAB to make additional attacks with a full attack. I don't think there's official rules anywhere for wielding multiple bows, so if anyone has any knowledge of how to make this work well, I'd appreciate help.

--Edit: Oh, Jungle Giant is Bestiary 3 page 129, and Giant Tarantula is Bestiary 3 page 256 by the way.

If you can find 3.5 monster manual 3 the arrow demon uses 2 composite longbows. and the feats used are point blankshot,precise shot,rapaid shot and weapon focus [longbow]. hope this helps. Love your idea for this creatures. and you can add the extra bow to your vision.


Shadowwalker wrote:
If you can find 3.5 monster manual 3 the arrow demon uses 2 composite longbows. andthe feats used arepoint blankshot,precise shot,rapaid shot and weapon focus [longbow]. hope this helps. Love your idea for this creatures. and you can add the extra bow to your vision.

Hrm, nobody I know irl has 3.5 books for me to reference... Maybe I can locate it online.

Would you happen to know what the modifiers to hit for its bow attacks are in relation to its BABs and relevant ability scores? That'd probably help me in terms of making my weretarantula's attacks work smoothly. And how would Rapid Shot work with multiple bows I wonder, does it apply to both of them, or only add one? (My guess is that each bow adds one extra attack, akin to Two-Weaapon Fighing, then BAB adds extra attacks as it hits relevant milestones, and then Rapid shot adds additional singular attacks with one of the bows, adding one to the total number of shots, same as if it was just being used with one bow.)


Gluttony wrote:
Shadowwalker wrote:
If you can find 3.5 monster manual 3 the arrow demon uses 2 composite longbows. andthe feats used arepoint blankshot,precise shot,rapaid shot and weapon focus [longbow]. hope this helps. Love your idea for this creatures. and you can add the extra bow to your vision.

Hrm, nobody I know irl has 3.5 books for me to reference... Maybe I can locate it online.

Would you happen to know what the modifiers to hit for its bow attacks are in relation to its BABs and relevant ability scores? That'd probably help me in terms of making my weretarantula's attacks work smoothly. And how would Rapid Shot work with multiple bows I wonder, does it apply to both of them, or only add one? (My guess is that each bow adds one extra attack, akin to Two-Weaapon Fighing, then BAB adds extra attacks as it hits relevant milestones, and then Rapid shot adds additional singular attacks with one of the bows, adding one to the total number of shots, same as if it was just being used with one bow.)

Base attack bonus is + 10 Attack is +14/+14 full attack +14/+14+9/+9

Str.21 dex.19 con.29 int. 14 wis16 cha12 And yes rapid shot gives you one extra attack to each bow.


Yeesh, add manyshot on with a ruling like that and you can end up with a ridiculous number of attacks per round.


Instead of trying to tangle with three separate longbows or something, why not have a single piece of equipment custom-designed for the unique anatomy of the race? Say, they might nest three bows against one another- six horns that nest into increasingly large pairs, each with separate strings. The bows need to be fired in a specific order, so the front-most horns "relax" and allow the others to release their tension properly when fired, but this doesn't actually have to have any mechanics ramifications other than saying someone can't really use it without three pairs of arms.

As long as the multi-limbed lycanthropic giants are not eligible for PC race, having a race known for putting out three accurate shots in the same time frame as others can place one can help cement an even more terrifying reputation.

Rules-wise, I'd let the damage from the three shots be somewhat staged- the largest pair of horns might have longbow damage, while the two smaller ones would have shorbow damage.


You might also want to have a look at the Arrow Demon in MM III (page 34) which is wielding two large longbows and has some mechanics given for multiple ranged weaponry.

Ruyan.


You would use the Multi-weapon fighting feat as the monster has more than one set of arms. It is the exact same as TWF expect it allows more than one set of arms and is a monster feat.

Rapid shot states that you fire one additional time in a round in exchange for taking a -2 to hit. It does not give you extra attacks for multiple weapons. the number of extra attacks stay the same.
IMHO this would not be worth it with the sheer rain of projectiles you would be making with this beast.

Manyshot would in fact function with this set up due to it saying
"When making a full-attack action with a bow, your first attack fires two arrows."
you have three bows, hence you make three attacks.
So counting in all this madness a jungle giant were-trantula would be rocking these additional modifiers.
-4 (MWF)(due to the weapons not being considered light)
-2 (Rapid shot) (if desired)

Key: (x2) = Many shot attack, this is for damage not for the number of attacks.
Basic forest giant, Rapid/many
+13(x2),+13,+8,+3
Were-giant Rapid manyshot, basic TWF
+9(x2)+9(x2)+9(x2)+9, +4, -1
Were-giant Rapid manyshot, ITWF
+9x2 +9x2 +9x2 +9, +4,+4,+4,-1

My suggestion for a nasty critter would be going for this.
Were-giant Manyshot, ITWF
+11(x2)+11(x2),+11(x2),+6,+6,+6,+1

Another fun thing, the giant tarantula can use its spiny hairs as ranged weapons. they might just make some nasty arrows and give you another creep factor. Finding the corpses of creatures pinned to trees with giant hairy spines. This might just be suitable warning to anything foolish enough to enter the jungle that it is an incredibly bad idea.


Movin wrote:
You would use the Multi-weapon fighting feat as the monster has more than one set of arms. It is the exact same as TWF except it allows more than one set of arms and is a monster feat.

Minor nitpick: Multi-Weapon Fighting is, in many ways, better than normal TWF. It has a lower base Dexterity requirement, for one, potentially freeing up some attribute points for more Strength for melee users.

For just a four-armed example, it allows them to attack once with each hand, which gives them a better attack combo than Improved and Greater two-weapon fighting, for one feat, with one low minimum Dex requirement, and no BAB requirement (and thus no minimum level to acquire). The effect is exaggerated further with the more arms the being gains- more attacks with a penalty that never gets any worse. The only drawback is that it does not qualify the monster for other TWF feats such as Double Slice, TW Defense, or TW Rend. Such is the price of getting a monstrous full attack sequence with a single feat investment.

Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

There's an Entomanothrope Template on WotC that might be applicable. It is part of a series called, "What's Bugging You." You can find it in the 3.5 archives.

Debby


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Honestly whenever I think of a werespider, I think of the Man Spider from the Spiderman cartoon. Of course, I suppose it could also have a centauran lower body with four legs, like the formians or driders.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Wereflea Knife Master/Scout anyone?......Anyone?

Werecricket bard?

Weretick undead slayer paladin who hates vampires?

Werecentipede feral combat trained monk?

Seriously though, I apologize if I offended anyone.

I just cannot seem to take this thread seriously.

I tried, I really did, I swear. Lol.


He could always hold the bows sideways. You might want to think about giving him a slight to-hit penalty because he can't pull the string to his ear or nose+chin properly, but on the other hand, his whole face is fulll of eyes, so that shouldn't be a real problem.


Gluttony wrote:
I don't think there's official rules anywhere for wielding multiple bows, so if anyone has any knowledge of how to make this work well, I'd appreciate help.

I recommend normal number of attacks with one bow, plus one additional attack with the other two bows at highest BAB, with all attacks suffering a -2 penalty. More than one attack requires a full attack as normal. Keep it simple. :)


Spes Magna Mark wrote:
Gluttony wrote:
I don't think there's official rules anywhere for wielding multiple bows, so if anyone has any knowledge of how to make this work well, I'd appreciate help.
I recommend normal number of attacks with one bow, plus one additional attack with the other two bows at highest BAB, with all attacks suffering a -2 penalty. More than one attack requires a full attack as normal. Keep it simple. :)

This is pretty much what I'm doing with it, yes.

...Although I got distracted and started making an awakened flying squirrel summoner... Almost done that though, and then I can return to my weretarantula.


Selgard wrote:

I understand that folks (rightfully) don't like reality to intervene in D&D due to the magic and all that.. but that having been said.

I'm having serious issues imagining something shooting more than one bow. I can imagine a marilith (for example) swinging and slashign with various 1h swords, axes, or whatever.. but the actual, practicals of holding, aiming, and drawing bows just ties my imagination in a knot when it comes to doing that same thing with 3 bows.

Am I missing something?

-S

Yeah, you either aim and loose the arrow properly, or you spam (assuming you have multiple limbs to fire multiple bows). The limbs are at different heights, it would be a pain.


Weslocke wrote:

Wereflea Knife Master/Scout anyone?......Anyone?

Werecricket bard?

Weretick undead slayer paladin who hates vampires?

Werecentipede feral combat trained monk?

Seriously though, I apologize if I offended anyone.

I just cannot seem to take this thread seriously.

I tried, I really did, I swear. Lol.

Yeah, I was thinking of giant hostile dust mites in an adventure path beyond the mighty termite door and into the white marble wastes. The flea is good! Think I will put sentient ticks into my game.


Parka wrote:
Instead of trying to tangle with three separate longbows or something, why not have a single piece of equipment custom-designed for the unique anatomy of the race? Say, they might nest three bows against one another-

This:

Gluttony wrote:
...I went with jungle giant as the base humanoid, and they're noted longbow wielders. Figured I'd stick with the theme.

---

Parka wrote:
As long as the multi-limbed lycanthropic giants are not eligible for PC race...

It's ineligible for PCs, yes. lycanthropy requires the base humanoid and base animal to be within one step of each others' size categories. The base animal I'm using is a giant tarantula, which is gargantuan-sized.

So unless a PC can find a way to play a huge-sized or larger humanoid (which would probably require such convoluted methods to achieve that I likely wouldn't allow them in a normal game anyways) it's an NPC-only thing.


Arrow. Demon. It's there for the taking. Just give it a try.


After finding my copy of MM3, yes, Arrow Demon is the picture you are looking for.


I have nothing useful to contribute to this discussion, but I just have to say that this thread is giving me warm, fuzzy memories of converting _The_Shattered_Circle_ to 3.0. I remember deciding that the easiest way to let those 4-armed Chitines wield multiple weapons was to make them rangers. What's more to the point, this thread reminded me of converting Caullum, the werespider, and made me dig out my old conversion notes.


Gluttony wrote:
Spes Magna Mark wrote:
Gluttony wrote:
I don't think there's official rules anywhere for wielding multiple bows, so if anyone has any knowledge of how to make this work well, I'd appreciate help.
I recommend normal number of attacks with one bow, plus one additional attack with the other two bows at highest BAB, with all attacks suffering a -2 penalty. More than one attack requires a full attack as normal. Keep it simple. :)

This is pretty much what I'm doing with it, yes.

...Although I got distracted and started making an awakened flying squirrel summoner... Almost done that though, and then I can return to my weretarantula.

Glad to help, hope you get to finish your creature and give feed back once you unleash them in the chaos

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

If you want a good image of multi-armed bow use you may want to check out the Arrow demon from Monster Manuel 3 in 3.5 for inspiration it uses at least 2 bows at a time.


Which has been suggested by me already, twice if I may add. *smug face*

Ruyan.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This might help:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a

Or it might not.

RAW, a jungle giant would gain a bite attack and a barbed hair attack. I'm not sure if it would be wise to give them any more attacks.


RuyanVe wrote:

Which has been suggested by me already, twice if I may add. *smug face*

Ruyan.

I even gave a picture of said demon. It really is a cool piece of art.


the David wrote:
RAW, a jungle giant would gain a bite attack and a barbed hair attack. I'm not sure if it would be wise to give them any more attacks.

Wise, perhaps not. It would however be cool.

The link is useful, thank you.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

*Sniff* I just wanted to be part of the conversation T-T lol.


Found a picture of the arrow demon.


Thanks! That's not at all what I'd imagined the arrow demon would have looked like to be honest, or how I would have pictured it holding its bows, but that's useful (especially since the stat block is there in addition to the picture).

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