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Rangers Bonding with the group ability underpowered.


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

Andoran

Imo the Bonding with the group is underpowered as an ability as opposed to picking an animal companion. The duration of the class feature is tied to wisdom which a Ranger does not really need a high score in. A 14 at most to be able to use all his spells. The bouns provided imo is too low until they reach at least 10th level. Compared to having an aniomal compaion that gets better as you advance in levels just does not seem worth taking imo.


Agreed, the ability is b~%*#+$+.


In most cases, yes, the animal companion will probably be more useful.

However, there are still reasons to take take the "bond with group" option. Perhaps you simply don't want an animal companion, or are in a campaign where it wouldn't be easy to have one around. Perhaps you have a particularly high Wisdom, allowing it to last a reasonable number of rounds. Or perhaps you have a large number of allies, and the extra damage will be more useful than a wolf and an attack round.

If you do find it weak, however, you could consider the Freebooter archetype. It replaces Favored Enemy with an ability similar to Hunter's Bond, but that lasts until you designate a new enemy. Their version of Hunter's Bond improves flanking, and technically lasts forever (for those within 30'). Or just use the archetype as evidence when trying to convince your GM that letting Hunter's Bond last all combat would be a reasonable house rule.

Or, you know, just take the animal companion. Having something other than an animal companion was a very requested choice, and I'm glad Pathfinder delivered an option. It might not be the best option, but it is better than just not using an ability at all.

Andoran

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Mort hits on the answer... the strength of the 'bond with group' power is determined by the size of the group. Also, the duration being based on Wisdom isn't too big of a penalty when it can just be re-initiated with another move action.

That said, in most cases PCs do not travel around in a large force... and this power is thus far more useful to NPC rangers. Give a 4th level Goblin Ranger this ability along with favored enemy Humans... his war band of 20 goblins all getting +1 to hit and damage suddenly makes them alot more dangerous. He can make his one attack each round and use the move action to re-initiate the bond... keeping it active no matter how low his Wisdom is.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Spirit Guide ranger too.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What's wrong with Hunter's Bond? It's seems pretty good to me. It has no limit on it's uses. You can use a move action to activate every round if you want. Personally if I planned to do that I'd start with a least 14 wisdom.

Andoran

It's not an unsable ability or an option that should never be played. Just that next to the animal companion it just feels flat rules wise. Or maybe the needed more flavorful text I don't know. I read the hunters bond secton and go "meh". Read the animal companion and the first thought is "I got to get me on of these". I would have tied it to another attribute not sure which one though. By the time it really imo becomes useful at higher it realy does not stand out that much as everyone else is doing special things with their characters. It also feels like imo it's a toned down version of the inspire courage ability that bards can do for rangers tied to a specific creature.

Andoran

voska66 wrote:
What's wrong with Hunter's Bond? It's seems pretty good to me. It has no limit on it's uses. You can use a move action to activate every round if you want. Personally if I planned to do that I'd start with a least 14 wisdom.

Comapred to taking an animal companion just feels underpowered imo. Tied to an attrbute that you really don't need more than a 14 in which at most makes it last two rounds. With the bouns given really coming into play only at high level. And only to specific favored enemies not every creature encountered. With an animal compnion the only worry imo is sending it into situations or creatures it cannot wiin against. Or small spaces when it advaces at higher level.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
memorax wrote:
voska66 wrote:
What's wrong with Hunter's Bond? It's seems pretty good to me. It has no limit on it's uses. You can use a move action to activate every round if you want. Personally if I planned to do that I'd start with a least 14 wisdom.
Comapred to taking an animal companion just feels underpowered imo. Tied to an attrbute that you really don't need more than a 14 in which at most makes it last two rounds. With the bouns given really coming into play only at high level. And only to specific favored enemies not every creature encountered. With an animal compnion the only worry imo is sending it into situations or creatures it cannot wiin against. Or small spaces when it advaces at higher level.

I don't mind the Hunter's Bond for companions but I wish there was feat that granted you extra rounds like Extra Hunter's Bond that grants you 2 rounds on top of you wisdom bonus. For the animal companion you Boon Companion to make equal to Druids animal companion so why not feat to help the other option of Hunter's Bond.

I agree though, hunters bond doesn't really get useful till 10th level. At that point you probably have boosted you wisdom enough and you have the Instant Enemy spell. For the 6 levels before 10 the animal companion is definitely more bang for you buck.

Andoran

voska66 wrote:


I don't mind the Hunter's Bond for companions but I wish there was feat that granted you extra rounds like Extra Hunter's Bond that grants you 2 rounds on top of you wisdom bonus. For the animal companion you Boon Companion to make equal to Druids animal companion so why not feat to help the other option of Hunter's Bond.

This is strange. We have "extra" type feats for everything else yet not

a Extra hunters bond. Something I hope Paizo will correct in the future. Imo it is really needed.

voska66 wrote:


I agree though, hunters bond doesn't really get useful till 10th level. At that point you probably have boosted you wisdom enough and you have the Instant Enemy spell. For the 6 levels before 10 the animal companion is definitely more bang for you buck.

As I said not a bad ability just imo too situtional and require both a decent wisdom score and a high enough level.


I'd say it may not be all that powerful on it's own, but if you stack the one favored enemy all the way up and use the instant enemy spell it'll still apply to anything you need it to. And just htink about the ability to stack it up on top of the fighters sick bonus's and the paladins smite evil during the BBEG fight. I'd say it has potential to make your party love having you there as it's a nice little bonus on attack and damage that stacks with about everything except other favored enemy bonus's.

Asta
PSY


I'm just glad there's ANY option aside from an AC. I've never cared for 'em, personally. Being able to share out my favoured enemy bonus rocks all over having a pet that any decent foe kills off in the second round.

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