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(PF) Critical Hit Question


Rules Questions

Andoran

So this last game session in my group, a player in our group had been doing critical hits different than everyone else, and we only just now found out how he was calculating it. Below is part of the rules from the PRD site.

Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a “threat,” meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit, it doesn't need to come up 20 again.) If the confirmation roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit.

A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together. Unless otherwise specified, the threat range for a critical hit on an attack roll is 20, and the multiplier is ×2.

Does that mean, that when I roll damage for a critical hit with my longsword, with a +3 strength modifier, I roll 1d8 twice and add the +3 from strength to both die rolls, or only add it once after both die results have been totalled? The wording is a little confusing and can go both ways. We've traditionally gone with the D&D 3.5 way since that's what we're used to, though after further review, it seems it could be interpreted either way. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. Should also note, that the core rulebook we have states the rule above verbatim. Thanks in advance.

Andoran

It's the same in D&D 3.5 and in PF: a confirmed longsword crit with +3 Str mod would be 2d8+6.

Andoran

That makes critical hits a little ovepowered then. Could be instant character death at low levels. Guess we all read the 3.5 version of it wrong. We thought it was roll the damage dice a number of times equal to the critical hit multiplier, then add in all bonuses from Strength and other sources onto the die roll total.


Agent, at low levels you don't need a critical hit to die. Someone hitting you with a two-handed weapon can drop you pretty easily, more so if they rage/Power Attack/get buffed. Low levels remain a game of Russian Roulette IMO, but that's fine; at higher levels I'd take all the crits I can get!


Additional damage dice (such as from sneak attack) are only applied once to a critical hit. That may be what you remember from the 3.5 rule, although that is also still the same in Pathfinder.


I vaguely remember in 3x that critting became a complex thing, where basically you could multiply die roles, but exclude bonuses. I think paizo worked it down to a more common sense version, just double normal calculated damage.

I believe that a sneak attack cannot crit, being a specialized form of attack (intentionally critting) and getting that multiplied would make for insane first round damages.

Andoran

On a related note...
If a weapon has the Bane property (add 2d6 to damage) would the 2d6 also be multiplied on a critical hit? The Bane description does not say "No".

EDIT: That could make my longbow pretty nasty against undead (3d8 + 6d6 + 39)!


Bane adds dice, which are not multiplied on a critical hit (the +2 from the additional enhancement bonus is multiplied, though).


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Bonus dice are never multiplied on a critical hit. Only static bonuses are multiplied.


Exception: Precision damage (such as from a rogue's sneak attack class feature) and additional damage dice from special weapon qualities (such as flaming) are not multiplied when you score a critical hit.


Agent None wrote:
That makes critical hits a little ovepowered then. Could be instant character death at low levels. Guess we all read the 3.5 version of it wrong. We thought it was roll the damage dice a number of times equal to the critical hit multiplier, then add in all bonuses from Strength and other sources onto the die roll total.

That's the idea behind "critcal hits", that you have swung your "weapon" and connected so well, that your going to deal major damage to the enemy. But remember this works both ways, your crits affect the enemy, just as deadly as their crits affect your pc's.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
shadowmage75 wrote:

I vaguely remember in 3x that critting became a complex thing, where basically you could multiply die roles, but exclude bonuses. I think paizo worked it down to a more common sense version, just double normal calculated damage.

I believe that a sneak attack cannot crit, being a specialized form of attack (intentionally critting) and getting that multiplied would make for insane first round damages.

Actually, I'm pretty sure nothing about crits has changed between 3.5 and PF, definitely not the basic crit rules anyway.

Sneak attacks can crit, but the extra sneak attack damage isn't multiplied. As Spes Magna Mark mentions, extra dice (no matter the source) are not multiplied. This applies to sneak attack dice, bane dice, flaming, shocking, anything that adds extra dice.

Shadow Lodge

And it can be just as deadly at higher levels too. In a campaign I ran last year, I know of many times that the barbarian one-shot'd some pretty tough enemies.


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Hey Agent, Can't believe I found this post! Ha ha! Hello everyone else, I was the one he was talking about when he mentioned the player doing it differently than everyone else. I had made a Kensai that used a falcata and he really cleaned house with it. 1 in 5 hits was a crit and I could spend 2 points of my arcane pool to increase the multiplier from X3 to X4. Falcatas do 1D8 19-20 X3 (I had improved crit). Just slap on bulls str and have yourself a good time!


Sounds like a good time indeed.


well in the beginning of 3.0 the crit must confirmed once per extra multiplier

19-20*2
20´, then confirm,
20*3: 20´then confirm *2, then confirm again *3

the str bonus and magic bonus still multiply, i mean a +3 clb (+3str) (20*3)
means you roll 3d8+18 to the damage!!
although with the called shot option, this will be a nice shot at lvl 1

if there was bane or sneak attack, it only add the dices and dont multiply those extra dices


Multiplying Damage: Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results.

http://paizo.com/prd/combat.html

under "Damage"


I imagine they have figured that out, in these intervening ten months : )


scythe Crit = death at any level. lol


KainPen wrote:
scythe Crit = death at any level. lol

Especially if it's also a customizable, high-impact sniper rifle.

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