Why didnt anyone mention the Mysterious Stranger Gunslinger yet? That would fit pretty good!
But your GM could ban the Mysterious Stranger...
Isn't there a bloodline to get a full Animal Companion?
Sorceror Archetype.
Isn't there a bloodline to get a full Animal Companion?Sorceror Archetype.
It isn't available through the Eldritch Herit. feat line. Two different rules conflicts prevent it. (Quandary listed one already.)
I kind of like Infernal. A fighter or barbarian could make use of corrupting touch to inflict shaken (no save) with what is probably an auto-hit. Hellfire is nice, and infernal resistance isn't terrible, especially with feats to spare. Minimum Charisma 13 synergizes nicely with Skill Focus (Diplomacy), making you a serviceable backup face person, even without much investment in skill ranks. Horned helmet and black cape optional.
Cavalier isn't all that strong, but if you were going to do Cavalier, Infernal Cavalier oozes style, and the Cha synergy is even better.
I think a Human with a touch of the Imperious Bloodline Looks like fun.
A barbarian would get full valuta for the Serpenting bloodline, with the boost to con that is.
And i like the image of a Cavalier (order of the cocatrice?) with the Rakshasa Bloodline.
And of cause the familliar (and improving it could be fun) fram arcane. Also using the Spell like abbility, of some bloodline, to qualify for crafting feats migth be somthing.
The Stat boosting Bloodlines look good but it is very late in game that the stats go high and it dosent stack with manuals i think.
I'm looking to make a fighter-type character (that is, one without any spellcasting abilities) that makes optimal usage of the Eldritch Heritage feats. What are some really great bloodlines or builds that would compliment just such a character?
I have no level in mind as of yet, but I will likely use 25-point buy and have access to all Pathfinder material.
I'd definatly go with a Stormborn archer.
You get these cool abilities.
Thunderstaff (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a weapon as a standard action, giving it the shock property for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1). At 9th level, you can confer the shocking burst property instead, but the duration of the power is halved. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Stormchild (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain resist electricity 5 and resist sonic 5, and treat wind effects as being one step less severe. At 9th level, you treat wind effects as being two steps less severe and gain blindsense 60 feet against concealment from natural or magical fog, mist, or weather effects.
No need to worry about the level 9 power as it is only ok, but the level 15 is nice.
Ride the Lightning (Sp): At 15th level, as a full-round action you can become a living lightning bolt and move in a straight line up to 10 times your speed. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity while moving in this way. Creatures or objects in your path are affected as by your thunderbolt power. Creatures do not block your movement but solid barriers do unless they are reduced to 0 hit points. You can use this power once per day for a number of rounds equal to your sorcerer level.
Shadow Bloodline is pretty nice, at least for the higher level abilities (the 1st one is kind of a waste, but the Skill Focus Pre-Req is actually directly useful and syngergistic with an Archery/DEX build):
Class Skill: Stealth. (Skill Focus Pre-Req)
Shadowstrike (Sp): At 1st level, you can make a melee touch attack as a standard action that inflicts 1d4 points of nonlethal damage + 1 for every two sorcerer levels you possess. In addition, the target is dazzled for 1 minute. Creatures with low-light vision or darkvision are not dazzled by this ability. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Nighteye (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain darkvision 30 feet. At 9th level, you gain darkvision 60 feet. If you already possess darkvision, its range is increased by these amounts.
Shadow Well (Sp): At 9th level, you can use the Stealth skill even while being observed and without cover or concealment, as long as you are within 10 feet of a shadow other than your own. In addition, when within an area of darkness or dim light, as a standard action you may choose to switch places with a willing ally within 60 feet, who must also be in darkness or dim light. At 13th level, you can instead switch the positions of two willing allies, each of whom must be within 60 feet of you. Unless otherwise noted, this travel is identical to dimension door. You may use the ability to switch places once per day at 9th level, plus one additional time per day at 17th level and 20th level.
Enveloping Darkness (Sp): At 15th level, you may create an area of deeper darkness that you can see through without penalty. All creatures except you are entangled within this darkness unless using freedom of movement or a similar effect. You may use this ability once per day.
it really depends on what you want to do, and what kind of setting you're in...
dex based fighter with one of the traits that makes stealth a class, taking skill focus [stealth] and picking up the shadow bloodline is a pretty interesting character (especially once they get IEH).
in a low magic campaign, or one where its difficult to commission specific items, making a character with a racial Spell-like ability and taking the Arcane Bloodline is great... SLA satisfy requirements for feats and PrCs, so if you take a bonded item your caster level will always equal your HD and you'll be able to enchant that item yourself (ie you can keep your weapon super enchanted at crafting cost instead of market price)
wanna make Thor? barbarian with elemental rage powers + stormborn bloodline.
creepy ass freak? any weird/dark dude + sanguine (an undead variant where you regain HP by eating recently killed enemies- there's been debate about whether or not you can take wildblooded bloodlines, so you'd have to ask your GM about this one)
have you accepted our lord and savior, Sarenrae/Pelor? how about a Paladin with elemental[fire]... the 1st level ability can be handy at low levels, the fire resist is very thematic, and the 9th level ability is solid; combine it with the unsanctioned knowledge feat to pick up a few more fire spells
there are tons of funs combos, its just a matter of you figuring out what kind of character you want to play- and have fun with it :)
A small Beast Rider Cavalier Oot Cocatrice riding a Deinonychus/Velocraptor going down the EH Serpentine bloodline.
You get Skill Focus Diplomacy for face skills, and then your face can grow venomous fangs, and then you get the ability to talk with reptiles (and your animal companion) at will along with a familiar that gives you a +3 bonus to Bluff, and you can get a boost to natural armor that increases with level.
If you use a gnome with either the Fell Magic or Pyromancer alt. racial traits, you even have a touch attack SLA that you can give to your familiar.
This is my favorite bloodline to use Eldritch Heritage with a non-caster
Seriously, what's not to like?
That it's home brew content from a fanzine?
|
The Paizo Linnorm is identical to Draconic but exchanges claws for a weak elemental ray.
It doesn't qualify for EH anyway since it's only available to the wildblooded archetype.
A Half-Orc THW Paladin with the Orc-Bloodline would probably make sense. For such a build never forget to get the robe of arcane heritage around level 13.
That it's home brew content from a fanzine?This is my favorite bloodline to use Eldritch Heritage with a non-caster
Seriously, what's not to like?
Yeah, it's out of balance with the other bloodlines IMO. I wouldn't allow it in our games.
EH in general is very cool :-)
The only bloodline I'd recommend for martials generally is Arcane.
For 11 Cha (13 if you want Evolved Familiar) and a whooping 3 feats (skill focus, eldritch heritage, improved familiar), you get your very own wand wielding buff monkey, sometimes literally.
Alternatively, taking a weapon for your arcane bond almost guarantees that you will always have precisely the magic weapon you want, for half the price no less. Less attractive, but certainly an option is to pick a ring.
No other 1st level bloodline ability is anywhere near as good and most are, frankly, useless.
Everything else, requiring 15+ charisma and coming online only after level 10, is strictly for classes that already have a good reason for a high charisma: Paladins mostly. Unfortunately all the really fun bloodlines, the +6 to strength ones - are thematically odd.
The Paizo Linnorm is identical to Draconic but exchanges claws for a weak elemental ray.
It doesn't qualify for EH anyway since it's only available to the wildblooded archetype.
And?
There is no "no archetypes" rule in the feat. Unless you GM ruled that you can't use them, I don't see a difference between getting Draconic or Draconic(Linnorm).
I'm looking to make a fighter-type character (that is, one without any spellcasting abilities) that makes optimal usage of the Eldritch Heritage feats. What are some really great bloodlines or builds that would compliment just such a character?
I have no level in mind as of yet, but I will likely use 25-point buy and have access to all Pathfinder material.
My two best are a Tiefling Paladin who takes a level dip in Oracle and maxes out his Lay on Hands through his favored class racial bonus and a Half-Elven Summoner who takes a level of Dragoon and uses his eidolon as a mount. Both make excellent use of the Orc bloodline via Eldritch Heritage although technically both are also technically spell casters.
Really, they're two of my very best characters. If you're interested in either just let me know.
I'm looking to make a fighter-type character (that is, one without any spellcasting abilities) that makes optimal usage of the Eldritch Heritage feats. What are some really great bloodlines or builds that would compliment just such a character?
I have no level in mind as of yet, but I will likely use 25-point buy and have access to all Pathfinder material.
I'd definatly go with a Stormborn archer.
You get these cool abilities.
Thunderstaff (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a weapon as a standard action, giving it the shock property for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1). At 9th level, you can confer the shocking burst property instead, but the duration of the power is halved. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.
Stormchild (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain resist electricity 5 and resist sonic 5, and treat wind effects as being one step less severe. At 9th level, you treat wind effects as being two steps less severe and gain blindsense 60 feet against concealment from natural or magical fog, mist, or weather effects.
No need to worry about the level 9 power as it is only ok, but the level 15 is nice.
Ride the Lightning (Sp): At 15th level, as a full-round action you can become a living lightning bolt and move in a straight line up to 10 times your speed. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity while moving in this way. Creatures or objects in your path are affected as by your thunderbolt power. Creatures do not block your movement but solid barriers do unless they are reduced to 0 hit points. You can use this power once per day for a number of rounds equal to your sorcerer level.
As if affected by your Thunderbolt power? Do you actually have a Thunderbolt power?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Milk your own poison for some pretty hefty poison at higher levels.
Someone suggests a PC milking himself and nobody comments on it?!
Disappointing, people. Very disappointing.
@ SAMAS and EsperMagic: Please explain how you are taking a sorcerer archetype (wildblooded) without taking any sorcerer levels... we'll wait.
The overall concept (Eldritch Heritage for non-casters) works best with a human (Focused Study alternate racial trait) fighter, monk, or possibly ranger (three classes with several extra feats; even though ranger is a minor caster), but it's not horrible (unless you're in the "dump Cha and probably Int to get the highest Str/Dex possible" crowd). Abyssal can be useful early on (the claws are always available in a pinch, even in situations where armor and weapons are unavailable or socially unacceptable) and the Str bonus is strictly better at high-level play (if the campaign lasts that long); if you don't expect to make it to 15th+ level, then this isn't a good character development strategy.
Anyway, to add to the discussion, I noticed the following mythic feat in Mythic Adventures:
Eldritch Heritage (Mythic)
The blood of your sorcerous ancestor mingles with your mythic power to great effect.
Prerequisites: Eldritch Heritage (UM).
Benefit: You gain sorcerer bloodline powers of the bloodline tied to Eldritch Heritage as if your sorcerer level were your character level – 2. For that bloodline’s 1st-level bloodline power, use your full character level to determine its effect; for all other bloodline powers, treat your sorcerer level as your character level – 2.
It's still 13 Cha and three feats (one of which requires mythic tiers), but it looks like any (mythic) character can get all the bloodline powers.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@ SAMAS and EsperMagic: Please explain how you are taking a sorcerer archetype (wildblooded) without taking any sorcerer levels... we'll wait.
That's the whole idea of the Eldritch Heritage Feat chain: getting the Bloodline Powers of the Sorcerer Class without taking levels in Sorcerer. Like I just said, I don't see any difference, as far as this feat is concerned, between Vanilla and Archetype Bloodlines(bolded for emphasis). If you can take bloodline powers, then as far as I'm concerned, you can take the Wildblooded option at the appropriate time.
Both the Archetype and the Feat are right there in the same book. If there was enough difference to disqualify Wildblooded, most likely they would've mentioned it.
The only thing I could possibly see a dispute coming up about is if the player in question tried to take both the Vanilla and Wildblooded powers of the same level. And honestly, if they really wanna burn up another feat like that, more power to them.
@ SAMAS and EsperMagic: Please explain how you are taking a sorcerer archetype (wildblooded) without taking any sorcerer levels... we'll wait.Both the Archetype and the Feat are right there in the same book. If there was enough difference to disqualify Wildblooded, most likely they would've mentioned it.
The archetype specifically states:
"Wildblooded (Archetype)
A wildblooded sorcerer has a mutated version of a more common bloodline, with one arcana and at least one bloodline power that are different from those of an unmutated bloodline. When creating a wildblooded sorcerer, select an existing bloodline, then select one of the following mutated bloodlines associated with that bloodline. Use the normal bloodline's class skill, bonus spells, and bonus feats, and the mutated bloodline's bloodline arcana. Use the normal bloodline's bloodline powers, except when the mutated bloodline replaces one of those powers."
Please explain how a non-sorcerer can have the mutated bloodline that requires a sorcerer archetype. There is no reason to specifically mention an exception in the feat since there is no way to have an archetype in a class that a character has no levels in.
Houserule it any way you want, but the RAW are clear.
wildblooded archetype grants a 'mutant bloodline' which changes your bloodline class ability to grant different abilities.
eldritch heritage directs you to choose a 'sorceror bloodline', not just any old bloodline. they are not the same,
just as a 'turboprop airplane' does not qualify as a 'jet airplane'.
a wildblooded archetype sorceror in fact selects a sorceror bloodline, and still counts as having it,
in addition to the mutated bloodline, even though it's powers are changed.
it's simply impossible to select a mutated bloodline with EH because there is not
an associated class skill for them with which to select with skill focus as the pre-requisite.
there is only associated class skill with sorceror bloodlines, which is a separate choice from the wildblood archetype and mutant bloodlines.
EH only lets you select one sorceror bloodline, not one sorceror bloodline AND one mutant bloodline modifying the first.
the mutant bloodline cannot function without the separate selection of a sorceror bloodline, but EH only gives you one selection.
likewise EH does not allow using other sorceror archetypes which replace bloodline powers, such as tattooed sorceror.
Anyway, to add to the discussion, I noticed the following mythic feat in Mythic Adventures:
It's still 13 Cha and three feats (one of which requires mythic tiers), but it looks like any (mythic) character can get all the bloodline powers.Eldritch Heritage (Mythic)
The blood of your sorcerous ancestor mingles with your mythic power to great effect.
Prerequisites: Eldritch Heritage (UM).
Benefit: You gain sorcerer bloodline powers of the bloodline tied to Eldritch Heritage as if your sorcerer level were your character level – 2. For that bloodline’s 1st-level bloodline power, use your full character level to determine its effect; for all other bloodline powers, treat your sorcerer level as your character level – 2.
..except for the level 20 capstone. Unless you play epic levels up to 22. But still I see that you mean that they can get everything else without spending as many feats.
Anyway, I saw some naysayers early in the thread questioning why a martial character wouldn't dump charisma so low that eldritch heritage was impossible. But even for a vanilla fighter or barbarian, they could see a benefit if they focused on intimidation. Isn't Cornugon Smash a rather decent feat for debuffing enemies as a free action? The small minimum amount of charisma, and maybe a boosting headband, would make it much easier to keep up with the DC for demoralizing the opponent.
I'll second the Fey bloodline as an interesting option. Having read through your character thread, Ravingdork, it sure seems like you're more about the depth of the character than necessarily the raw game ability. Anyone can slap on inherent strength bonuses and call it "interesting." But a character that fights in melee with a Conductive weapon to daze opponents and at level 11 can act under greater invisibility for 9 rounds a day? Sure sounds pretty cool to me.
How about a ranger with the shadow bloodline? They often get the job of tracker/scout anyway, so this would allow them even more capability. The ability to use stealth while being watched, dark vision, switching places with allies, and even a 1/day deeper darkness that doesn't affect you but can also entangle enemies.
Deep earth gives you tremorsense with the 3rd level power, but only when you are at 9th (so 11th) level. Earthglide is also extremely useful, if a bit late for Eldritch heritage.
I got my GM's clearance to take the Umbral Wildblooded bloodline on my Ninja. She gets cloak of shadows (adds +2 to her Stealth checks 7 times per day) and will eventually grab Shadow Well, which is basically Hide in Plain Sight plus shadow teleports. Still deciding if I'm going to grab the super-cool deeper darkness ability as well.
Plus as a Ninja, Skill Focus (Stealth) is hardly a feat tax.
Mythic EH makes me want to play a oread with the shaitan bloodline.
I already built a Ranger with the Shadow Bloodline.
He hides from anything, at anytime, anywhere.
...So..how does he do little things like order food? Does he pretend to be a ghost? do adventurers occasionally come in and try to eliminate him? (which sounds like a fantastic story hook, by the way)
|
...So..how does he do little things like order food? Does he pretend to be a ghost? do adventurers occasionally come in and try to eliminate him? (which sounds like a fantastic story hook, by the way)I already built a Ranger with the Shadow Bloodline.
He hides from anything, at anytime, anywhere.
...if he chooses to.
I left that part out, by the way.
It all started here.
You could be a ranger with the kobold bloodline and get better traps than you buddy the ranger who took the trapper archetype.
I only look at the firth EH feat most of the time, not IEH so I can't say anything about the later powers but I like the following powers, too:
protean bloodline: protoplasm; Entangle is still a nice debuff at higher levels.
Celestial bloodline: Heavenly fire; No high numbers but you can heal yourself or others and deal some ranged damage that ignores DR, resistances, immunities.
deamon bloodline: Wasting ray. Situational but can be effective if no food/water if in easy reach.
I've always wanted to make a familiar that could actually wade into melee. Not particularly optimal, but I think it can be done?
A familiar's BAB, saves and HP are determined by what the master has so a class like a Paladin would be very suitable for good BAB, saves, and HP. So Eldritch Heritage for the Arcane bloodline, and then pick up a strong familiar from Improved Familiar like Earth Elemental and go to town. Then pick up other feats to power him up, like Evolved Familiar (If you can find a decent quadruped, picking up pounce with Evolved Familiar seems like a nice acquisition) and Celestial Servant (Celestial Servant is a VERY nice defensive AND power post; your familiar can “Smite Evil” right along with you!)
I like Eldrich Heritage for fighters. I tend to make my fighter with decent Charisma. The main reason is for the Leadership feat and it gives me the ability to help out with Diplomacy for example. So taking EH feats is worth while if I can find one with skill focus requirement that is useful.
a barbarian with the spirit totem rage powers has a motivation to aim for like a 14 cha or so (and have tons of hp)... that might be a good starting point for your combat familiar?
You mean that it's professionally developed content from an Official Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Compatible Product?That it's home brew content from a fanzine?This is my favorite bloodline to use Eldritch Heritage with a non-caster
Seriously, what's not to like?
its both, the fanmade linnorm predated the wildblooded archetype.
if i wrote a feat that let you do that?
that quote doesn't mean there IS currently such a method, or that EH is that method.
you can't just ignore rules text based on some vague belief that something should somehow be possible.
EH says you pick a "sorceror bloodline". "mutant bloodlines" are not "sorceror bloodlines".
dropping out words because that is easier for conversation does not change the actual rules wording.
wildblooded sorcerors still need to pick a "sorceror bloodline", and the class archetype gives them alternat "mutant bloodline" abilities.
"mutant bloodlines" do not have bonus class skills (or spells, or feats), only "sorceror bloodlines" do,
so there is no way to fulfill the skill focus requirement to qualify for taking EH: mutant bloodline.
wildblooded archetype sorcerors are not getting their bonus class skill from the "mutant bloodline", they get it from their "sorceror bloodline", which continues to provide the bonus skill, bonus spells, bonus feats, and powers not altered by the archetype.
Wayangs/Ranger/Rogue/Shadowdancer/ Shadow bloodline
The true dark starker
Dwarf/Ranger/Barbarian/ Horizon Walker/Deepearth Bloodline
The under dark warrior
Vishkanyas/Alchemist/Monk Seprent(Style)/Serpentine (Blood line)
Corba Ki
Samsarans/Magus Black blade)/(Destined Bloodline) with Heirloom weapon trait
A man and his sword can not be parted
Sulis Monk(elemental Bloodline)
Ryu
@ SAMAS and EsperMagic: Please explain how you are taking a sorcerer archetype (wildblooded) without taking any sorcerer levels... we'll wait.Both the Archetype and the Feat are right there in the same book. If there was enough difference to disqualify Wildblooded, most likely they would've mentioned it.The archetype specifically states:
"Wildblooded (Archetype)
A wildblooded sorcerer has a mutated version of a more common bloodline, with one arcana and at least one bloodline power that are different from those of an unmutated bloodline. When creating a wildblooded sorcerer, select an existing bloodline, then select one of the following mutated bloodlines associated with that bloodline. Use the normal bloodline's class skill, bonus spells, and bonus feats, and the mutated bloodline's bloodline arcana. Use the normal bloodline's bloodline powers, except when the mutated bloodline replaces one of those powers."Please explain how a non-sorcerer can have the mutated bloodline that requires a sorcerer archetype. There is no reason to specifically mention an exception in the feat since there is no way to have an archetype in a class that a character has no levels in.
Houserule it any way you want, but the RAW are clear.
The RAW aren't clear because they don't say anything. You are the one drawing that distinction. Conversely I am saying that distinction doesn't exist. In both cases, we are making our own interpretations.
Speaking of which, let me point out another line in that excerpt:
When creating a wildblooded sorcerer,
In this case, we are not creating a sorcerer. If you'll check the title, its specifically saying a Fighter (but naturally can apply to any class).
Now let's see the text for Eldritch Heritage:
Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have.
The RAW is quite clear on what the restrictions are. You must have Skill Focus for the Bloodline's Class Skill, and you can't already be a Sorcerer of that Bloodline (Also, a Cha of 13 and be at least 3rd Level). About the only way that could have anything to with restricting Wildblood is the logical interpretation that you can't use this feat(chain) to gain the Wildblooded version of a Bloodline power when you are already of the Vanilla Bloodline and vice versa.
EH says you pick a "sorceror bloodline". "mutant bloodlines" are not "sorceror bloodlines".
So they're Druid Bloodlines then? No? Barbarian Bloodlines maybe? Oh I know, Gunslinger Bloodlines!
Dropping out words because that is easier for conversation does not change the actual rules wording.
wildblooded sorcerors still need to pick a "sorceror bloodline", and the class archetype gives them alternat "mutant bloodline" abilities.
"mutant bloodlines" do not have bonus class skills (or spells, or feats), only "sorceror bloodlines" do,
so there is no way to fulfill the skill focus requirement to qualify for taking EH: mutant bloodline.
wildblooded archetype sorcerors are not getting their bonus class skill from the "mutant bloodline", they get it from their "sorceror bloodline", which continues to provide the bonus skill, bonus spells, bonus feats, and powers not altered by the archetype.
A mutated Sorcerer Bloodline is still a Sorcerer Bloodline. And just as it's possible for a non-sorcerer to have a bloodline (via the feat), then it is possible for that bloodline to be a mutated one.
Unlike other Archetypes (outside of some Summoner and ARG archetypes), Wildblooded is not a variation in training. A Fighter chooses to be a Dragoon. A Wizard chooses to be a Spellslinger. A Barbarian chooses to be a Sea Reaver. A Cross- or Wildblooded Sorcerer is born that way. Both a Sorcerer and an Eldritch Heritaged-[Class] is that the Sorcerer has chosen to focus and develop their natural-born power futher, while the [Class] has taken a different path, using their inborn power but not defining themselves by it.