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What Third Party Adventure Path Do You Want?


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Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber
Coltaine wrote:

I think a combination of themes would work well too. For example:

Underdark dwarven city under seige; this would include the war theme, exploration ( recover weapons), diplomacy (recruit allies), reconaissance and sabotage, and lots of combat.

+1 to this.

I had this going in the back of my mind as I was writing, but it didn't quite make it in. And thank goodness it didn't. My last post is long enough as it is!

-Aaron

Cheliax

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
terraleon wrote:
OmegaZ wrote:
If you guys did the fairy tale adventure I would happily let you garnish my wages for the rest of my natural life.

*cough* Tales of the Old Margrave *cough*

Just sayin'.

-Ben.

Which was a great book that needed a part 2, More Tales of the Old Margrave... hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge, hit over head with obviously large hint.


Fire Mountain Games wrote:

It's been very interesting reading everyone's responses. If I can just answer one question I've received via email -- no, we are not saying that we are doing one of those three I posted. They were meant to gauge reaction to various themes and spur discussion. And in that light -- here's two more ideas.

Fairy Tales -- Candy houses, big bad wolves, enchanted kingdoms under an evil sorceress' spell -- this would be an entire adventure path exploring the realms of fairy tales. We wouldn't limit ourselves merely to the Brothers Grimm either. Oh no. Baba Yaga, the Jabberwock, and Andersen's mermaids would definitely be in the mix as well. And who are the PCs? They could be adventurers, yes, but we would also include optional rules for playing children who had stumbled into this world of wonder and terror.

Tyrant -- Way of the Wicked meets Kingmaker. Set a generation after the events of "Way of the Wicked" -- Talingarde is now firmly in the thrall of the Asmodeans. But now it is time to expand. The rulers of Talingarde grant titles to anyone who can establish a colony on a wild, savage and untamed island. Here is there are no established domains. This is an island unknown and utterly uncharted. Explore the island, establish your dominion and become the Tyrant king.

There would be an intrigue element. By gaining the favor of the wicked king of Talingarde, you could receive more aid and additional wealth. But you also risk royal meddling. You also aren't the only one granted a title. Destroy your rivals as you claim the wealth of this island for yourself. And the last book of adventure path? Throw off the yoke of Talingarde and become your own independent nation. You will bow to no one! You will be Tyrant!

Feedback?

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Both of those ideas sound great to me!

Qadira

UNDERDARK WAR TYRANT!!!!


The Fairy Tale AP sounds intriguing. My GM would run it in a heartbeat (the same can't be said for Way Of The Wicked, unfortunately).

Tyrant sounds amazing. I love the idea of a sequel to Way of The Wicked. Hopefully it will focus solely on the intrigue and kingdom building, unlike Kingmaker. I'm not a fan of the wilderness exploration in Kingmaker. There's other avenues that could be explored in a sequel to WOTW, as well. Perhaps the PC's are the commanders of the armies of Talingarde as they conquer other nations. Then, once a nation is conquered, they can work on managing it, launching additional wars later and stuff like that. Then we'd have the war campaign I've always wanted. Give us some really detailed mass combat rules (I'm talking Warhammer level of detail) and we're set. Or maybe the sequel casts the PC's as good aligned heroes fighting against Talingarde. But I'd rather keep being evil.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Whew, a lot of cool ideas in here, let me start with Gary's first.

Viking Saga -- Depends on the focus of this, it sounds like it will be exploration focused and I'm very much interested in that. It also sounds like a good opportunity to include some underwater stuff as well, sea monsters, frigid inhospitable islands, etc. Hopefully low magic (been hankering for more low magic stuff recently, so you may see this a lot :p)

The Guildmaster -- Makes me think of Raymond Feist's Krondor and the thieves guild in that which has always interested me; I've also heard a pretty cool story about the Thieves' World setting, so there's that going for it. Also seems like it would be a good place (once the PCs get up in rank within the city) to add in some of the political intrigue and the like that people have mentioned in this thread.

The Great Game -- Played in a game something like this once (a oneshot, HERO system, modern day) where the PCs woke up in this strange area and had to participate in a competition they knew nothing about (but most of their competitor's alien races did). Was quite interesting, they discovered they had each inherited a strange power, and had to figure out what they were doing and how to if not win, at least survive. Would like something along similar lines, the party thrown together in a contest for survival, given strange tools and abilities and have to try and win in order to survive. Not sure it would work the best in pathfinder though.

Fairy Tales -- Would like this one, but I expect it would require each tale to have it's own 'twist' or tweak to it, something to make it stand out from the norm and keep things unpredictable. I do like the kids idea too, if not normal kids then perhaps the brave adventurers who stumble into this land are cursed, shrunken back to youth, or something else...

Tyrant -- Have yet to play Kingmaker (or GM rather, as I offered to once, but the group fell apart before we got to run it), but have all the books and really love everything I've read. I would hope for the kingdom building system to be reworked however (haven't actually looked at the mass combat system so no opinion on that), both for a little more realism, and to fix the magic item/economy issues. Generally if possible something a lot more in depth.

Potential Kingmaker Spoilers:
As to the exploration element I would again like something a bit... richer. Kingmaker had a lot of good stuff, and some interesting quests, but most hexes the events were fairly isolated. I would love something like an expanded version of the Kobold vs. Mites war. I feel like you could spend a whole book on an event like that, working with one side, performing tasks to defeat or saboutage the other (and then amalgamating your allies into your kingdom... or set them up for the inevitable betrayal) or playing both sides against the middle, more dangerous, but potentially more rewarding. Perhaps the island was already inhabited, or perhaps another kindom learns of Talingarde's push, and doesn't like how close they're getting... ;)

To rate your suggestions from highest to lowest interest to me:
Tyrant, Viking Saga, The Guildmaster, can't really pick between the last two.

As to my own suggestions, these are mostly reiterations of previous poster's ideas. In no particular order:

1. Plane Shifting - Not my favourite idea, but something in the vein of stargate would be pretty cool.

2. Atlantis/Underwater/Sunken Ruins - Could be worked into the viking idea as I mentioned above, but doesn't quite fit too well with vikings. PCs are a group of explorers/salavagers/academics who learn about the location of an ancient 'ruined' city far far away from civilization and mount an expedition to explore and claim it. Serpent's Skull was in a similar vein, but a significantly different execution. This would be more like a voyage into the remains of Azlant, discover strange artifacts and ruins, possibly descendants of the city, crazy magic, evil cults, can all be there, with some of the ruins on islands, and the rest sunken into the sea. As you can probably tell I quite like this idea :)

3. Undergound - The party has lived their whole life underground, knowing only the tribes/villages/civilizations that live in the caves near their own, where they hunt and grow food, and the underground river that has allowed them all to survive here for generations. Some leave sometimes, but whatever happens few are seen again, and the ones that are have only to be buried... Now the river has ceased to flow, the beasts they hunt have moved on, and the neighbours are getting fractious. They must expand, and find somewhere new to live, but what awaits them out in the dark caves, or above on the surface.

Yes another exploration one, what can I say I love exploring and discovering things. The above is certainly only one interpretation, but all this writing and reading other's ideas has got the creative juices flowing (more than usual anyway). I'm not too keen on the sentient dungeon trying to kill them, and I don't want to go near the standard underground races (Drow anyway, dwarves would be okay, as would the numerous monsters), but something exciting. Perhaps the river drying up is no accident...

4. Post Apocalyptic - Mana Wastes, Fallout, Darksun, Gamma World, something in that vein. Low magic, weird ruins and relics from before the cataclysm that caused it all. Struggling to survive and rebuild in the days following (with PCs as survivors of whatever the cataclysm was), or generations later when the survivors start to emerge from the ground/different dimension/different planet and try to piece together whatever happened to their planet and the strange things left behind; can they discover the source of the cataclysm, perhaps even reverse it? or do they have to stop it from happening all over again... Post Apoc stuff has always been a BIG favourite of mine, ever since I started highschool and my english teacher got me into reading with a series by an Australian author Isobelle Carmody :)

5. War/Military - Again going back to Raymond E. Feist's works, his Serpentwar saga had some excellent storys of a small platoon of men drafted into a (near suicidal) mission to the other side of the world to investigate rumours of an enemy force gathering to attack the kingdom (please forgive if this is a poor summary, it's been years since I've read the Serpentwar Saga :)). Some sort of conflict in which the party acts as the frontline for a larger force or as a special squad kind of deal.

6. Time Travel - Something kinda like the Plane Shifting/stargate ripoff idea, or really just anything involving time travel, preferably more than one-way. Being able to jump around time and having some sort of system to reflect changes based on the PC's actions would be pretty awesome. Terribly complicated of course, especially for something more sandboxy which would be truly awesome!

7. Monstrous Campaign! I know there have been comments about 'every campaign will be monstrous with Advanced Race Guide', but something truly savage. The PCs are representatives from a bunch of tribes who have banded together to fight back the encroaching tendrils of civilization! Tear down their buildings, flood their fields, burn them alive! No wizards or clerics for you! Only witch doctors and shamans! This land belongs to us! WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Gary - loving the fact that you're engaging with the public in this way, and similarly a big fan of Way of the Wicked - so major kudos on both counts there.

Viking Saga: I like, as you get the chance for full character growth - and I'm actually doing something similar as a PbP here. Really has a chance to be interesting all the way from early to late game, as you start a footsoldier, then end up killing a linnorm or the like.

Guildmaster: also has some potential, and could build on the organisation rules you've already got for WotW.

The Great Game: doesn't speak to me personally as much as some other options.

Fairy Tales: I like this one. The fae done right can have all sorts of scope from the macarbe to the fantastical to the cruel to the downright wierd. Again also has a large field of scope. I've often pondered a

Kingmaker Spoilers:
reverse Kingmaker, where you are tasked instead working against those that would civilize the lands and instead turning them into a fae friendly environment.

Tyrant: would be great, but I think probably too close and similar to WotW at this point.

Another thought - which I personally enjoy is doing a reclamation of an ancestral home / mine / skycity. You'd be charged with travelling there, ousting the existing tenants, rebuilding the fortress, then defending your stronghold against overwhelming odds. Again, has scope to run from level 1 to high and be engaging in different ways to different souls.


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Lots of great feedback, everyone! Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post here or has sent me an email.

I’ve received a lot of questions about the Great Game so let me try to refine it a little more.

Spoiler:

Once the gods warred and their warring nearly destroyed all that is. Finally in desperation the sixteen greatest gods – the Patrons – came to an accord. Instead of star-shattering, planes-smashing conflict, they would once an age play a game. Whoever won the game would be allowed to decide the tenor of the next age. Each of the Sixteen picks a champion from across the multiverse and places that champion in a world outside of space and time.

In this particular iteration of the Great Game, the Patron Chaos has decided upon an interesting strategy. Instead of picking one champion, he has instead picked a group of champions each of who receive a part of his power. These are the PCs. Chaos is capricious and more than a little mad. It could choose anyone – absolutely anyone. If Chaos thought a band of paladins would serve its interests, it would appoint them as champions. This is an adventure path where your options to play PCs are virtually unlimited. The only restriction – Chaos has put a team together. The PCs must have reason and ability to work together.

The PCs awake uncertain how they arrived or where they are. Through the course of the early adventures they learn the true nature of the Great Game and that they are upon a demi-plane with other dangerous entities drawn from across all of time and all the planes. Yes, I said time. There will be optional rules for including some champions who use technology. Of course, if you prefer to ignore this, you can.

The world they explore is a world beyond imagination. It is a place of countless wonders and unspeakable horrors. It is a place of dangers and delights – each of the Patrons had a hand in the various regions and the gods show off to their fellows.

Some of the Champions are dangerous and brutal. There is no dealing with them save with the sword. Others are friendly and can be negotiated with, even allied with. There are sixteen keys scattered across this strange and magical world. The keys want to find each other and if you can understand their true nature, you will understand that one key can be used to find the other keys. Together they unite to form the Claviger’s Stave, an artifact so powerful it almost beggars the imagination. Only with the Stave can you open the Homeward Gate and escape from this world.

To escape from this world is not only to decide the tenor of the age, it is to become the harbinger of the new age. Though you must serve your Patron as newly elevated gods, it will be up to you how this new age of the multiverse will unfold. Will it be an age of death and destruction? Or will it be an age of adventure and freedom?

The choice is yours. But first, you must win the Great Game.

This campaign is a sandbox that could be played a dozen times and be different each go around. We give you a detailed game board. We give you fifteen rival competitors and timelines of their likely actions. We give you a thousand ways the Great Game could play out. Don’t like a champion? Swap the champion out! Make up your own! Have a particular world that you like? Include part of it in the Great Game.
Anything is possible. Anything is allowed. Anything can happen. The Great Game is yours. Become the victor and remake all of creation in your image.

Any thoughts?

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games


The distant exploration meme has been done twice in PF with Serpent's Skull and Jade Regeant. What neither of them did was attempt a "Mountains of Madness" style of expedition. Book 1 is the awesomely capable heroic group forging the path to Ye Distant Land, tasked to both forge ahead for the larger group to follow behind and do the grunt work *and* to set up the logistics for that group - say, these heroes' followers. "Awesomeguys" are 8th level pre-gens with Leadership and a high enough Leadership score to have cohorts of modest level, say 3rd or maybe 4th.

The 8th level group has to arrange the logistics for their minions for the simple reason that Something Horrible happens to them at the end of Book 1. Book 2+ are the travails of the cohorts (the real PCs for the campaign) that have to forge ahead with the expedition once they arrive at the base camp where they horrific evidence teases them with danger and the mystery of what lies ahead.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Fire Mountain Games wrote:

Lots of great feedback, everyone! Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post here or has sent me an email.

I’ve received a lot of questions about the Great Game so let me try to refine it a little more.

** spoiler omitted **...

Oh yes, that is definitely relevant to my interests :D That would push it up to rival the Viking Saga in my ranks above.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Gary - for mine I'd buy it, but only off the strength of WotW and not because I'd be engrossed in the subject matter.

Would that AP start at Level 1? - as it seems like a higher level pitch.


Mark Sweetman wrote:

Gary - for mine I'd buy it, but only off the strength of WotW and not because I'd be engrossed in the subject matter.

Would that AP start at Level 1? - as it seems like a higher level pitch.

Mark,

Hey, thanks for the kind words about Way of the Wicked.

Oh no, it would be a 1st-20th level AP. That's all part of Chaos' brilliant(?) strategy you see. It sees the PC's potential. No one will see 'em coming till its too late.

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Qadira

Reading up on the updated version of the Great Game, it doesn't sound too bad. However, that last part sounds like the whole thing's more about character hooks and us doing a majority of the work than it being a AP. I guess it'll have to be one of those things that you actually need to see the finished product of before you can truly reserve judgment on it.


I would like an underdark adventure. The fairytale one is not something I can see as an AP. Maybe a 1 shot, but that is about it.


LG dwarves move into a new area.....underground kingmaker where the party are very LG community of dwarven settlers and the baddies are very, very bad CE indeed....and loads deep dwelling dragons


I'm a huge fan of Coliseum Morpheuon. The Great Game has a VERY high standard to reach. If it can - awesome. If not, it's going to be measured against imho one of the best supplements for any d20-based system.


thenovalord wrote:
LG dwarves move into a new area.....underground kingmaker where the party are very LG community of dwarven settlers and the baddies are very, very bad CE indeed....and loads deep dwelling dragons

A Dwarf Fortress AP sounds like a lot of *fun*. ;)


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Oh god, not Dwarf Fortress! Tantrums and Fire and Cats, Oh My!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I would like ro see a 3pp tie in some other 3pp products into any AP. Maybe use SGG Godling as a big baddie, or better yet. Their new Death Knight. Mybe throw in some other company's monsters. Mix in some spell from another. A showcase AP to really draw in the potential of 3pps.


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DAMMERHALL The dwarves are scattered, leaderless, a fading people. Their glory all but forgotten, slowly they mingle with the human kingdoms losing their own heritage and identity. The true thanes and heroes are but legends and few young dwarves even bother to learn the old tongue these days.

It was not always so. Once the dwarves held the mightiest empire in all the world. From their mountain-capitol they were richer, mightier and more advanced than any other free folk. But then Dammerhall, the Spire of Kings, fell. In a single night of terror, the Calamity destroyed the stronghold -- the dwarven lords were slaughtered and their might broken. Dammerhall is now only a palace of nightmares.

That changes today! The last true heir rallies a small band of dwarven believers to reclaim what was lost. By hammer and by axe, you will lay low the invaders and retake the Spire of Kings. Death or Dammerhall!

This AP combines a living megadungeon, underground exploration, and war themes to tell a thrilling tale of dwarven heroism and desperation. Though there would be an option for playing a more traditional party (at least one dwarf is mandatory) the default way to play this adventure path would be as an all dwarven party.

There would be intrigue as well. The local human lord certainly wants the monsters cleared from Dammerhall, but he is less sure about having a newly resurgent dwarven empire next to his holdings. He has a better idea of how to use all the reclaimed dwarven wealth. Will you accept his aid and risk his interference or is this a task to be done by dwarven hands alone?

Upon your decisions rests the fate of all dwarves. You will find your destiny within Dammerhall.

Thoughts?

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games


I like dwarves. Would I buy Dammerhall? Probably not. Compared with the other suggestions, it feels restrictive and not too exciting. E.g. Second Darkness never really gripped me due to the elf/drow-focus - racial restrictions also limit the audience. It could work, but I think Megadungeon (Rappan Athuk is coming and many people would probably rather play that, btw....) AND racial themes (I know ONE of my players loves dwarves - the others play usually humans and aren't that into demi-humans...) AND War feels a bit disjointed. I'd much rather see the retaking restricted to perhaps a module. Underdark War on the other hand might be awesome - OD's Empire of Ghouls featured the guerrilla-sandbox version against the ghoulish empire, so...yeah, I'd go for that.

I'd take all other AP-suggestions over this one any day.
Just my 2 cents, btw.!

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I'd like to see an AP where the PCs begin as petitioners in Hell and have to work their way up the diabolic hierarchy.

Tyrant sounds very interesting, as does an all-underwater AP.


Either an adventure path that deals with a dwarven setting or something exploring the different planes


Fire Mountain Games wrote:

DAMMERHALL The dwarves are scattered, leaderless, a fading people. Their glory all but forgotten, slowly they mingle with the human kingdoms losing their own heritage and identity. The true thanes and heroes are but legends and few young dwarves even bother to learn the old tongue these days.

It was not always so. Once the dwarves held the mightiest empire in all the world. From their mountain-capitol they were richer, mightier and more advanced than any other free folk. But then Dammerhall, the Spire of Kings, fell. In a single night of terror, the Calamity destroyed the stronghold -- the dwarven lords were slaughtered and their might broken. Dammerhall is now only a palace of nightmares.

That changes today! The last true heir rallies a small band of dwarven believers to reclaim what was lost. By hammer and by axe, you will lay low the invaders and retake the Spire of Kings. Death or Dammerhall!

This AP combines a living megadungeon, underground exploration, and war themes to tell a thrilling tale of dwarven heroism and desperation. Though there would be an option for playing a more traditional party (at least one dwarf is mandatory) the default way to play this adventure path would be as an all dwarven party.

There would be intrigue as well. The local human lord certainly wants the monsters cleared from Dammerhall, but he is less sure about having a newly resurgent dwarven empire next to his holdings. He has a better idea of how to use all the reclaimed dwarven wealth. Will you accept his aid and risk his interference or is this a task to be done by dwarven hands alone?

Upon your decisions rests the fate of all dwarves. You will find your destiny within Dammerhall.

Thoughts?

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

When is it coming out? haha.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Endzeitgeist wrote:

I like dwarves. Would I buy Dammerhall? Probably not. Compared with the other suggestions, it feels restrictive and not too exciting. E.g. Second Darkness never really gripped me due to the elf/drow-focus - racial restrictions also limit the audience. It could work, but I think Megadungeon (Rappan Athuk is coming and many people would probably rather play that, btw....) AND racial themes (I know ONE of my players loves dwarves - the others play usually humans and aren't that into demi-humans...) AND War feels a bit disjointed. I'd much rather see the retaking restricted to perhaps a module. Underdark War on the other hand might be awesome - OD's Empire of Ghouls featured the guerrilla-sandbox version against the ghoulish empire, so...yeah, I'd go for that.

I'd take all other AP-suggestions over this one any day.
Just my 2 cents, btw.!

I agree with End about Dammerhall. It is a fine idea, just not sure it would be very popular. I doubt my group would play it. Not everyone likes all the races and that as End mentions limits your customer base. Basically you end up with only groups that

A) like the idea
and
B) everyone likes or is ok with playing dwarves.


dwarves reclaiming ancient homeland

Id rather a more positive spin and the dwarves actually progressing/expanding/exploring rather than lets reclaim Moria once more.....so actually the bit before the fall in fact, carving out the mighty empire rather just reclaiming

IMO

Shadow Lodge

Of all the listed ideas so far, the Fairy Tale one is definitely the most interesting.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Endzeitgeist wrote:
I'm a huge fan of Coliseum Morpheuon. The Great Game has a VERY high standard to reach. If it can - awesome. If not, it's going to be measured against imho one of the best supplements for any d20-based system.

I would LOVE to see an AP based on CM. Perhaps even a high-lvl only AP, something that deals with 10-20 or 15-20, something like that.

In general, with 3rd party AP ideas, I want to see something different. Paizo has taken care of most of the classic ideas, so I want to see some of the non-classic ones.

Qadira

Endzeitgeist wrote:

I like dwarves. Would I buy Dammerhall? Probably not. Compared with the other suggestions, it feels restrictive and not too exciting. E.g. Second Darkness never really gripped me due to the elf/drow-focus - racial restrictions also limit the audience. It could work, but I think Megadungeon (Rappan Athuk is coming and many people would probably rather play that, btw....) AND racial themes (I know ONE of my players loves dwarves - the others play usually humans and aren't that into demi-humans...) AND War feels a bit disjointed. I'd much rather see the retaking restricted to perhaps a module. Underdark War on the other hand might be awesome - OD's Empire of Ghouls featured the guerrilla-sandbox version against the ghoulish empire, so...yeah, I'd go for that.

I'd take all other AP-suggestions over this one any day.
Just my 2 cents, btw.!

I'm in and not in the same boat here. I'm not a dwarves fan. I'll play one, but they aren't immediate race of choice. That goes for all of my players, and everyone in my other group as well. The only dwarf you'll see in either group in a NPC, or a NPC turned PC. Being forced to play one in the group usually ends up with someone half-ass volunteering. I can see this being a module, but not a complete AP. I'm all for a megadungeon, but with a different story behind it.

I too wouldn't mind a collaborative AP between two companies. Purple Duck Games does a really good job of making very short one-shot fights that can be stuck into any module or AP, and their items have incredible backstories that cry out to be turned into a module. Try as I might I haven't been able to convince them to do that though.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
Fire Mountain Games wrote:

DAMMERHALL The dwarves are scattered, leaderless, a fading people. Their glory all but forgotten, slowly they mingle with the human kingdoms losing their own heritage and identity. The true thanes and heroes are but legends and few young dwarves even bother to learn the old tongue these days.

It was not always so. Once the dwarves held the mightiest empire in all the world. From their mountain-capitol they were richer, mightier and more advanced than any other free folk. But then Dammerhall, the Spire of Kings, fell. In a single night of terror, the Calamity destroyed the stronghold -- the dwarven lords were slaughtered and their might broken. Dammerhall is now only a palace of nightmares.

That changes today! The last true heir rallies a small band of dwarven believers to reclaim what was lost. By hammer and by axe, you will lay low the invaders and retake the Spire of Kings. Death or Dammerhall!

This AP combines a living megadungeon, underground exploration, and war themes to tell a thrilling tale of dwarven heroism and desperation. Though there would be an option for playing a more traditional party (at least one dwarf is mandatory) the default way to play this adventure path would be as an all dwarven party.

There would be intrigue as well. The local human lord certainly wants the monsters cleared from Dammerhall, but he is less sure about having a newly resurgent dwarven empire next to his holdings. He has a better idea of how to use all the reclaimed dwarven wealth. Will you accept his aid and risk his interference or is this a task to be done by dwarven hands alone?

Upon your decisions rests the fate of all dwarves. You will find your destiny within Dammerhall.

Thoughts?

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

This is the idea I'm most excited about and here's why:

1) Paizo couldn't do it: The risks of a single race AP are huge for a big company like Paizo, but for a smaller publisher maybe not. You could throw in some side-bars to "adapt the adventure" for non-dwarf parties.

2) It tells a STRONG story but one that rests on Player Agency - Reclaim the Dwarven Heritage!

3) Table-Top Dwarf Fortress: I love the concept of that game, but frankly it's too alien for me to play it on a computer. Running it at a table: FAN-TASTIC.

4) Easily Adaptable: While you can't use Golarion this one is the one that is most easily adaptable to Paizo's setting saving the GM a lot of work, and the players a lot of effort learning a "new language".

5) Darklands/Underdark: For the longest time I've wanted to do Kingmaker II: Dark Kingdom, and have a massive sprawling underdark setting in which to start a Dwarven colony. You can even adapt John Brazer Enterprises adaptation of the Kingdom Building rules.

6) Dungeons, Dragons, Duerger, Derro and Drow: Oh my! It's old school meets new school.

7) DWARVES: Dwarves are the best race for a number of reasons.
a) They have the best beards.
b) They have the best beers.
c) Did I mention their totally sweet beards?
d) B&!@&in' Axes.
e) Oh man those beards.
f) Dwarves got Stonecunning so you know they Rock.
g) Dwarves are short, so their headbutts REALLY hurt.
h) Beards!
i) Dwarves Dig Gold, and ladies dig dwarves.
j) BEARDS!
k) Dwarves can hold a grudge for CENTURIES.
l) They've got the best beards out.
m) Ladies prefer girth over length.
n) Men Love Beards
o) Dwarves are excellent at Balancing
p) It only takes 25 minutes for a Dwarf to grow a beard.

q) Dwarves rescue lost princesses.
r) Even Dwarven women have BEARDS!
s) Dwarves can dodge giants.
t) Dwarves don't shave off their beards.
u) Dwarf Crafting is the best crafting.
v) Dwarves are Beardtastic.
w) Combat bonuses vs Orcs and Goblins.
x) The Kingdom could have Beard accessory stores
y) Scottish accents ye scunners!
z) BEARDS!

In conclusion: Do it, it's the right thing to do.


I hafta say, I wouldn't be terribly interested in a dwarf AP, but...I've never been terribly fond of dwarves to begin with, so I wouldn't be the target audience there, lol.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Fire Mountain Games wrote:
But we can make an epic adventure easily portable to any fantasy world.

Yeah...epic sounds good. Epic level please.


I agree with the Last Baron's comments.

The great part of Tyrant is that it could also be combined with the War AP idea... the indigenous inhabitants of the 'new world' rise up againsy the expansionist invaders.

The Tyrant idea could even include some of the other suggestions, such as the Stone Age / Lost World feel (this could be the tone of the New World setting). I think the setting should be a new continent (or at least the eastern seabord of it), not just an island.

Maybe even combine Tyrant with the Dragon AP thread... the New World just happens to be home to the dragons and their stone age human worshippers (the remains of a once-great dragon-worshipping fallen culture?).

Throw in dinosaurs as well... dragons are the top of the food chain in this version of a Lost World setting (and at least with herds of Brontosaurs there is enough food for dragons - always wondered what all the Great Wyrms ate in a normal fantasy setting)

Also, I understand that you can't use Golarion, but I like the idea of the Fire Mountain AP's fitting into one world (albeit generic and unnamed), in the same way Frog God handles Slumbering Tsar, Rappan Athuk, etc.

Thanks for WotW, it is a great AP, plan to start it in 2013... totally unrelated question: What is the font used for "Way of the Wicked" on the adventure covers?

Qadira

I just had a thought. With the Great Game scenario, players could be a gunslinger without any issues from the GM. That's brilliant. Time and time again I've heard of GMs that refuse to let players be one, or players wishing they could but the class just doesn't fit "the setting" that the GM made. I fixed that within the first 10 seconds by reading Iron Kingdoms. Gnomes and dwarves were invented them first. Need a better gun that doesn't exist? You meet a mercane who travels through space and dimensions to find one for you, at the right price. But with that setting, no animosity towards any PC wanting to be one. Same for various races, or other classes that don't fit in normal settings. Definitely a nice loophole if I ever saw one.

Andoran

I would buy Damerhall in a Deep Delve Second. While I agree about the limited audience, FMG has already shown that they can take a concept that is "not for everyone" and do a heck of a story out of it, in no small part because that narrowed focus produces, IMHO, richer story potential. The scattered nature of the traditional adventuring party often scatters the plot all over the place to. If the party has a clear goal from the word go, that has tremendous story potential.


Caen wrote:
totally unrelated question: What is the font used for "Way of the Wicked" on the adventure covers?

Caen,

The font is I think is Mike's modified version of Kingthings Spikeless.

Gary "Not the Font Guy" McBride
Fire Mountain Games


Fire Mountain Games wrote:

Tyrant -- Way of the Wicked meets Kingmaker. Set a generation after the events of "Way of the Wicked" -- Talingarde is now firmly in the thrall of the Asmodeans. But now it is time to expand. The rulers of Talingarde grant titles to anyone who can establish a colony on a wild, savage and untamed island. Here is there are no established domains. This is an island unknown and utterly uncharted. Explore the island, establish your dominion and become the Tyrant king.

There would be an intrigue element. By gaining the favor of the wicked king of Talingarde, you could receive more aid and additional wealth. But you also risk royal meddling. You also aren't the only one granted a title. Destroy your rivals as you claim the wealth of this island for yourself. And the last book of adventure path? Throw off the yoke of Talingarde and become your own independent nation. You will bow to no one! You will be Tyrant!

Feedback?

This I like. I love the Kingmaker type AP and I love evil campains. You combine the two and it will be the next AP I bang over someones head until they run it for me. (Last one was Kingmaker in fact) I rarely get to play as Im usually the DM, but for this I would find a DM. And buy him the books.

I still Like the Labyrinth idea but this is a close second.

As for the rest of the ideas.

Fairy Tale - I realize that Grimm and Once Upon a Time are great shows, but playing a large scale AP based around it... ehhh not so much. Not my cup of tea. I could see throwing a few of the stories into a campaign but not basing the whole thing around it.

Dwarfs - Again not my cup of tea. I wouldn't care to run or play in a AP based around one of my least favorite races. What is it with all the Dwarf love?

Other than that I love the thread. I will keep an eye on it!


I think reclamation of dwarven heritage,then dealing with the neighbourhoring threat of human lord wanting to take all the dwarven treasures and the Spire itself afterwards,THEN the steady rebuilding of the kingdom and the trials that come with it would be great. Have you seen the Dwarves vs Elves thread?

Cheliax

Fire Mountain Games wrote:

DAMMERHALL The dwarves are scattered, leaderless, a fading people. Their glory all but forgotten, slowly they mingle with the human kingdoms losing their own heritage and identity. The true thanes and heroes are but legends and few young dwarves even bother to learn the old tongue these days.

It was not always so. Once the dwarves held the mightiest empire in all the world. From their mountain-capitol they were richer, mightier and more advanced than any other free folk. But then Dammerhall, the Spire of Kings, fell. In a single night of terror, the Calamity destroyed the stronghold -- the dwarven lords were slaughtered and their might broken. Dammerhall is now only a palace of nightmares.

That changes today! The last true heir rallies a small band of dwarven believers to reclaim what was lost. By hammer and by axe, you will lay low the invaders and retake the Spire of Kings. Death or Dammerhall!

This AP combines a living megadungeon, underground exploration, and war themes to tell a thrilling tale of dwarven heroism and desperation. Though there would be an option for playing a more traditional party (at least one dwarf is mandatory) the default way to play this adventure path would be as an all dwarven party.

There would be intrigue as well. The local human lord certainly wants the monsters cleared from Dammerhall, but he is less sure about having a newly resurgent dwarven empire next to his holdings. He has a better idea of how to use all the reclaimed dwarven wealth. Will you accept his aid and risk his interference or is this a task to be done by dwarven hands alone?

Upon your decisions rests the fate of all dwarves. You will find your destiny within Dammerhall.

Thoughts?

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

While a dwarf-focused or dwarf-themed AP would be HIGH on my list, a dwarf-only AP would be not.

Living megadungeon check, underground exploration check, war theme check... add in intrigue (each non dwarf adventurer is somehow sponsored by a faction interested in riches/knowledge/magic/destruction/etc.) to keep players on their toes - and maybe add a narrative twist here and there, as factions wars may as well mean the loss of one or more sponsors.

Game, set and match.

Andoran

I like the idea of the dwarven heritage.

I also like the Tyrant idea. That would be an instant buy for me.

What I haven't seen enough of in any adventure path is Dragons. A campaign based on dragonriders, characters of draconic heritage, or followers of a dragon emperor would be interesting and fun.

I second the idea of a time travel AP. The time thief and time warden would be a perfect fit for such a campaign.

I also liked the idea of using the death knight or godling as a major part of an AP.

How about an evil AP where eventually the PCs invade the home plane, world, country, or whatever of the forces of good?

I think a LG,CG,and NG campaign set in a post apocalyptic waste where the PCs are trying to retake and right the wrongs that destroyed the world would be epic.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
golem101 wrote:
Fire Mountain Games wrote:
DAMMERHALL

While a dwarf-focused or dwarf-themed AP would be HIGH on my list, a dwarf-only AP would be not.

Living megadungeon check, underground exploration check, war theme check... add in intrigue (each non dwarf adventurer is somehow sponsored by a faction interested in riches/knowledge/magic/destruction/etc.) to keep players on their toes - and maybe add a narrative twist here and there, as factions wars may as well mean the loss of one or more sponsors.

Game, set and match.

Ooh, the idea wasn't really grabbing me before, but with that twist of different factions it grabs my attention a bit more. I do like dwarves.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
golem101 wrote:

While a dwarf-focused or dwarf-themed AP would be HIGH on my list, a dwarf-only AP would be not.

Living megadungeon check, underground exploration check, war theme check... add in intrigue (each non dwarf adventurer is somehow sponsored by a faction interested in riches/knowledge/magic/destruction/etc.) to keep players on their toes - and maybe add a narrative twist here and there, as factions wars may as well mean the loss of one or more sponsors.

Game, set and match.

Have to echo this. Like the idea as long as the exploration of the megadungeon could be kept interesting and varied, but I wouldn't play it with a dwarf only party, nor would I like that to be the main focus with 'ideas' about how to play with a different racial make up. Not something that my group would be interested in for a whole AP. Like the faction / intrigue idea, with maybe an additional twist of there being non-dwarf or enemy factions that have secretly gotten into the mix intent on gaining the knowledge for themselves. That said, you'd have to be careful this didn't echo Serpent's Skull too much in that regard.

I don't know - I like the megadungeon / underdark idea, but think the whole 'reclaiming the Dwarven homeland' idea' would pall after a bit.


I think its a great idea, though you might want to expand on the dwarves only focus. It could be reclaiming a dwarven hall but doesnt have to be a dwarven party- for example, Jade Regent has a similar trope.

A good part of it could be explorative, ala Night Below, and also making allies; perhaps there are "lost dwarves," elves, deep gnomes, drow etc. all down there doing their own thing, you might even throw in unrelated dungeons ala Lost Caverns of Tsojicanth.


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Modules, Tales Subscriber

In the midst of this conversation awash with underground adventuring and retaking dwarven fortresses (which would be really fun!), I also want to float an idea that I mentioned earlier, but did not include in my long post above:

Underwater Adventuring: I would really like to see some underwater adventuring. I have never played an underwater adventure, I'm not really sure how to construct one. I think it would be really fun to include as part of an AP or as the theme of an AP. Upon further thought, I wonder if Skull and Shackles will have an underwater episode...

-Aaron


Gary:

First of all, huge fan of WoTW, absolutely loving it so far

Back on topic, I really think the fairy tale idea sounds interesting. Might be difficult to stretch out over 6 books, but would be rewarding as heck if you could do it (and if anyone can, its FMG)

The Great Game sounds interesting, I'd definately try it. Would it end up being a planar hoping game, or just stay on that one plane?

A lot of people are clamouring for another evil game, an underdark game, and a monsterous game. Why not combine them! Have a game where the players play the dark races (Drown, Duerger, Svirfneblem... Svirvnibleim... Deep Gnomes) preparing to assault the soft upper world? Lots of chance for intrigue, exploration, political stuff, and of course, war!


4 people marked this as a favorite.

DSRMT,

An interesting idea.

NOBLE HOUSE -- There are many noble houses both great and small within the ancient drow vault-city of Tezzarathane, but yours is definitely one of the lesser. This will be the generation where that changes. You play a band of young drow nobles, inheritors of a legacy of evil and vengeance.

At once both an urban campaign and a game of underground exploration, you begin as young drow earning your place in the cutthroat world of the dark elves. Rise to power, conquer the uncharted depths of the earth, raid the surface and become masters of Tezzarathane. Loyal to no one but yourself, your House and its dark demon-gods, are you ruthless enough to become lords and ladies of the realms below?

The PCs would all be drow -- a race diversied and given more options via the trait system. This would be an adventure path that spans centuries as it charts the life of a band of drow noble siblings fighting to secure their dominance in drow society.

It would have a kingmaker-esque aspect -- the Noble House itself would be a character. This adventure path would feature major interaction (via both combat and RP) with the aboleth. And of course at least one drow civil war is inevitable. Very sandbox, there would be literally no limits to what wickedness your house could undertake.

In order to allow for interparty cooperation, your house requires a blood oath to not harm those of your kin. There would be a minor competive element -- only one of you can be Matriarch/Patriarch at a time after all. But each of you would have a say in how the Noble House is controlled (one of you is the master of assassins, one is the master of the household guard, etc.).

Another thing -- drow are demon worshippers. Rather than specify which demon lord (or lady) you worship, there would be a simple subsystem for specifying what makes your favorite otherworldly abomination unique. This is your houses' Patron and though we would provide a few samples, ultimately it will be up to the PCs to decide whom they serve. Your choices would provide mechanical ups and downs to your custom noble house.

Any interest?

Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games

Osirion

Fire Mountain Games wrote:
NOBLE HOUSE -- There are many noble houses both great and small within the ancient drow vault-city of Tezzarathane, but yours is definitely one of the lesser. This will be the generation where that changes. You play a band of young drow nobles, inheritors of a legacy of evil and vengeance.

This idea is cool, and yet also very customizable. The flavor would change hugely, but the mechanics of the piece not so much if you want to play a 'Great Game' with Taldon noble houses, or Dwarven clans competing for influence in the Five Kingdoms, or Kalistrocracy Prophets engaging in a struggle for economic dominance, or Orcish warlords in Belkzen, or knightly order in Mendev, or assassin's guild in Daggermark, or criminal gang in Riddleport, etc.

At one scale, you could play individual characters, all members of the same house, clan, trade cosortium, warband, knightly order, etc. A different version (less tabletop RPG, more boardgame), the individual players could each play a single house, clan, whatever as their 'character,' with each player running a different faction.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Give me something with a Celtic vibe to it.


Many good ideas here and I'll most definately buy the next FMG adventure.

I'm most partial to the Dammerhall and Noble House ideas. If you could dedicate one of the books to an Underdark Sea adventure then I'm completely in.

If you wanted to slip in a gritty Viking Saga first, no complaints. You may even consider including elements of the Fairy Tale into the adventure as the pc's move through the various Norse mythos worlds...

Cheliax

Fire Mountain Games wrote:

DSRMT,

An interesting idea.

NOBLE HOUSE -- There are many noble houses both great and small within the ancient drow vault-city of Tezzarathane, but yours is definitely one of the lesser. This will be the generation where that changes. You play a band of young drow nobles, inheritors of a legacy of evil and vengeance.

At once both an urban campaign and a game of underground exploration, you begin as young drow earning your place in the cutthroat world of the dark elves. Rise to power, conquer the uncharted depths of the earth, raid the surface and become masters of Tezzarathane. Loyal to no one but yourself, your House and its dark demon-gods, are you ruthless enough to become lords and ladies of the realms below?

The PCs would all be drow -- a race diversied and given more options via the trait system. This would be an adventure path that spans centuries as it charts the life of a band of drow noble siblings fighting to secure their dominance in drow society.

It would have a kingmaker-esque aspect -- the Noble House itself would be a character. This adventure path would feature major interaction (via both combat and RP) with the aboleth. And of course at least one drow civil war is inevitable. Very sandbox, there would be literally no limits to what wickedness your house could undertake.

In order to allow for interparty cooperation, your house requires a blood oath to not harm those of your kin. There would be a minor competive element -- only one of you can be Matriarch/Patriarch at a time after all. But each of you would have a say in how the Noble House is controlled (one of you is the master of assassins, one is the master of the household guard, etc.).

Another thing -- drow are demon worshippers. Rather than specify which demon lord (or lady) you worship, there would be a simple subsystem for specifying what makes your favorite otherworldly abomination unique. This is your houses' Patron and though we would provide a few samples, ultimately it will be up to the PCs...

I've done this myself some years ago, using the Book of Drow Lore (Mongoose) as a baseline and one of Map of Mistery (the one with the volcano under the icecap) from a very much loved Dungeon Magazine.

The players could choose to be drow (at least half of the group), duergars (free or slaves), humans (slaves) and feral garguns (slaves, from Races of Stone); then choose one Noble House between an handful of options (slavers, traders, warriors, clerics, wizards, overbright explorers), and each one of them implied a specific subset of minor quests from a pool of thematic side treks - sabotage, intelligence, open warfare, treasure hunting, blackmailing, trading with exotic stuff/creatures, appeasing the demon lords, etc.
Each theme had 3 side treks (low, medium and high level), and so each house had an individual feeling - the traders would mostly feature intelligence gathering, treasure hunting, sabotaging and trading, while warring, blackmailing and adoring the gods (demons) would be a rare feature.

That was built over a simple "reclaim the whole place from bigger evils than the drow" campaign, and usually the PCs used the side treks to build up experience, resources, and support from their House to face the next step of the conquest campaign, kinda handling the sandbox facet themselves.

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