[Radiance House] Secrets of Pact Magic Open Playtesting Month


Product Discussion

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Alexander Augunas wrote:

Right now, I'm leaning towards calling it "The Between," as its sort of an in-between state of existing and not existing. I'd rather not tie it to any ideas like death or dying, because in most campaign settings you don't become a spirit just by dying. You have to die under truly extraordinary or spectacular ways.

I also like calling it "The Gray," and "The Waste." A one-word term that sounds uncomfortably familiar and ominous at the same time. In my home campaign setting, I call it the Path of Black Leaves*, the Path for short.

This all, of course, assumes that DMs want me [read, us] to name this place for you in the first place.

Thoughts on any of these names?

** spoiler omitted **

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the name now that I think about it, and wouldn't bother giving it a hard set name to begin with. I would simply leave it up to the DM and present the range of options above as *possible* names/suggestions for what to call it, but leave it up to DMs to decided in the end.

From personal experience both DMing and playing with a DM they tend to ignore such nomenclature when creating settings or running pre-created adventures anyway.

Silver Crusade

I'm just now taking the opportunity to look over the pdf I received (I'm still not used to the messaging feature here). There is a lot here to digest.

I understand the use of the term 'Matrix,' but thanks to the movies, that particular name carries too much baggage. I suggest referring to it as "The Womb", as that carries a more sinister implication of 'a surrounding substance within which something else originates, develops, or is contained' (which is a definition of 'matrix').

Contributor

Blayde MacRonan wrote:

I'm just now taking the opportunity to look over the pdf I received (I'm still not used to the messaging feature here). There is a lot here to digest.

I understand the use of the term 'Matrix,' but thanks to the movies, that particular name carries too much baggage. I suggest referring to it as "The Womb", as that carries a more sinister implication of 'a surrounding substance within which something else originates, develops, or is contained' (which is a definition of 'matrix').

I'm not a fan of calling it "the Womb." That doesn't sound sinister to me at all; it sounds like ick.

Sovereign Court

Saying "The Womb" is a great example of how a GM might completely re-present the spirit realm in a different, unusual way.

Another option: The Flux.

Anyway, yeah, we'll give folks a bunch of ideas in a little side-bar and let GMs pick for themselves.


Dark Blood does not have a binding DC.

Also, I'm rather enjoying the various spirits. For the first time since the Advanced Players Guide came out I'm thinking "I gotta play this!"


I'd like to help, by all means. :) The original is great stuff, I'd love to have a fully Pathfinderized version.

May I suggest that at some point, you present the classic Goetia as a group of devils who've been given pactmaking powers by Asmodeus? It'd fit perfectly in Golarion, while being sufficiently generic that you wouldn't (I think) have issues with Paizo.

Contributor

Okay, since I'm releasing the updated version of the playtest document tomorrow-ish, I'll instead give a rundown of how the "Matrix" is going to function in the new book.

Or, as I probably should say, won't function. The term "Matrix" is completely gone, replaced in most cases with the new term "Spirit Realm." The exception to the above rule are the book's Bardic Masterpiece and Cleric Domain; the Bardic Masterpiece is now known as the Soulsong of the Occult Muse and the Cleric Domain is now known as the Occult Domain. I am especially excited about calling the Cleric Domain the Occult Domain because it opens up the doors for a lot of fun subdomains. (i.e. Spirit Domain, Gray Domain, Between Domain; the possibilities are endless!)

In addition, the VERY last page of Chapter 3 has a new Sidebar explaining a little bit more about the Spirit Realm. It seemed like a fitting place because its the same chapter that I provide the alternate constellation names. In that chapter, the sidebar details four, count'em, FOUR different "theories" that occult scholars use in regards to the nature of the Spirit Realm. I don't want to spoil anything (yet), but the names of those four theories are: Between theory, Gray Waste theory, Flux theory, and Womb theory.

Wrap that up with a nice little bow that says the GM gets to pick how the spirit realm functions in their campaign and boom. Everyone wins.

Contributor

The Terrible Zodin wrote:

Dark Blood does not have a binding DC.

Also, I'm rather enjoying the various spirits. For the first time since the Advanced Players Guide came out I'm thinking "I gotta play this!"

DC is 22. It'll be in the update tomorrow. Also, add this to the end of the first sentence under Dark Blood's physical sign:

; the player may select which animal, but it should be appropriate to the character’s flaws and negative traits.

And I'm glad to hear it. Dario and I both thing that we've got something cool here;; the only tricky part is gonna be getting people to risk buying the book in the first place!


I don't buy many books, but if I an scrounge up some cash I'll be getting it for sure.
It sounds like things are coming along well and I'm looking forward to the updated playtest tomorrow.

Contributor

The Playtest Document has been updated to v2.0. Click on the link I PMed you and it will take you to the newest version of the document. If you deleted the original link, then you may PM me for a new one. Likewise, I am still giving out playtest documents so if you're new to the party, you can also PM me for a shiny new playtest document. Depending on how much feedback Dario and I get I may or may not be releasing another update to the document; I decided, however, that enough changes were implemented that an update to the document itself was more useful then a seperate errata document.

Note that the document will still SAY that its v1.0. Read through it; it is not. I checked it myself! :-P If you download it, you may want to change its name. Or you can just delete the old one; that works too!

As of right now, the only areas that don't appear to have gotten a lot of theorycrafting feedback are the higher-level spirits (8 and 9) and the new feats (though it may just be that there is nothing bothersome among those feats).

There are a LOT of changes based on what was suggested by all you lovely folk. (And others who are creeping in other places!) I'll see if I can compile a list of changes later, but it is certainly a herculean task.

EDIT: I forgot to make two minor changes; I'm not going to send out an all-new document for them, but I will note what they are. The Occult Domain and the Ravaged Bloodline both reference the term "vatic;" that has been removed, as I am doing something "fun" with that in Advanced Secrets; if that book happens. ;-P


A few comments as I give the document a scan over:

Under Beast Aspect is the following:

Quote:
You gain low-light vision. If you already have low-light vision, increase how much farther than a human you can see in low-light conditions by x1.

I know what you are trying to say, but this somewhat unclear. I'd suggest wording it slightly differently.

Modified low-light vision text wrote:
You gain low-light vision. If you already have natural low-light vision, the range of your low-light vision is doubled (allowing you to see four times as far as normal in dim or shadowy conditions).

Contributor

Caedwyr wrote:

Bnder Beast Aspect is the following:

Quote:
You gain low-light vision. If you already have low-light vision, increase how much farther than a human you can see in low-light conditions by x1.

I know what you are trying to say, but this somewhat unclear. I'd suggest wording it slightly differently.

Modified low-light vision text wrote:
You gain low-light vision. If you already have natural low-light vision, the range of your low-light vision is doubled (allowing you to see four times as far as normal in dim or shadowy conditions).

Done. Anything else?


Still looking as I get time.


Personally, I think the vestigal companions should have some form of upgrading mechanism with them that allow them to get better as they level up. Some examples could be having Aza'zanti's familiar upgrade form a viper to a pseudodragon, General Hassant's horse uprgade to a Nightmare, and Sevnoir's dog companion eventually upgrade to a Shadow Mastif. Of course, you could have them move from trading out minor granted abilities to major granted abilities. I'm not sure how this would translate to other vestiges or to vestages without companions, but it was simply some food for thought. (Also, I admit those three would probably be the easiest to upgrade if you went that route).

On to more straight forward concerns. You have a spelling error in Aza'zanti's description of his physical sign. "Whenever you activate onf of Aza’azti’s granted abilities, your eyes take on the
likeness of two golden coins." should probably change "onf" to "one". Don't know if we were supposed to be looking for those, and I doubt their are many more since that was the only one that caught my eye in the whole document.

Also, a quick question on Muse Istago's Perfect Atrributes ability. Is it suppose to only apply to the person using the ability, act as a buff to others, or both? The description implies both to me but I wanted to be sure.

All in all I think this is looking very good. Great job on it overall.


Also, Fey Baraddu's Fang ability only says, "At 7th level and every 3
binder levels thereafter, this bonus increases by," and then never finishes that sentance.


Regarding the totem warrior issue, here's a suggestion to make it more futureproof/generic:

Modified Totemic Alignment (Su) wrote:
Totemic Alignment (Su): A totemic sage selects 1 of the following constellations: Beast, Dragon, Fiend, Hero, Thief, or Tree. The totemic sage can only bind spirits of the chosen constellation and when selecting totem rage powers, the totemic sage is restricted to totems associated with that constellation unless he or she is given permission to select more than one totem via an archetype or other ability. This ability only restricts the totem rage powers that the barbarian can select; other rage powers can be selected normally. This ability replaces fast movement.

The wording can probably be cleaned up a bit, but this means that you are not only restricted to the Totem Warrior Archetype in allowing more than one totem constellation linkage.

Contributor

Kitsune Knight wrote:
Personally, I think the vestigal companions should have some form of upgrading mechanism with them that allow them to get better as they level up. Some examples could be having Aza'zanti's familiar upgrade form a viper to a pseudodragon, General Hassant's horse uprgade to a Nightmare, and Sevnoir's dog companion eventually upgrade to a Shadow Mastif. Of course, you could have them move from trading out minor granted abilities to major granted abilities. I'm not sure how this would translate to other vestiges or to vestages without companions, but it was simply some food for thought. (Also, I admit those three would probably be the easiest to upgrade if you went that route).

That's something cool I could do later, but there's no way that would fit into this book; especially limited to one page.

Quote:

On to more straight forward concerns. You have a spelling error in Aza'zanti's description of his physical sign. "Whenever you activate onf of Aza’azti’s granted abilities, your eyes take on the

likeness of two golden coins." should probably change "onf" to "one". Don't know if we were supposed to be looking for those, and I doubt their are many more since that was the only one that caught my eye in the whole document.

Fixed.

Quote:
Also, a quick question on Muse Istago's Perfect Atrributes ability. Is it suppose to only apply to the person using the ability, act as a buff to others, or both? The description implies both to me but I wanted to be sure.

Originally you could use it on as many people as you like, but I just recently found the space to change the last line in the end to not only clear this up, but to limit it as well: You may apply this benefit to a number of creatures equal to your Charisma bonus and a creature can only have one ability score repainted at a time.

Quote:
All in all I think this is looking very good. Great job on it overall.

Thank you very much!

Contributor

Caedwyr wrote:

Regarding the totem warrior issue, here's a suggestion to make it more futureproof/generic:

Modified Totemic Alignment (Su) wrote:
Totemic Alignment (Su): A totemic sage selects 1 of the following constellations: Beast, Dragon, Fiend, Hero, Thief, or Tree. The totemic sage can only bind spirits of the chosen constellation and when selecting totem rage powers, the totemic sage is restricted to totems associated with that constellation unless he or she is given permission to select more than one totem via an archetype or other ability. This ability only restricts the totem rage powers that the barbarian can select; other rage powers can be selected normally. This ability replaces fast movement.
The wording can probably be cleaned up a bit, but this means that you are not only restricted to the Totem Warrior Archetype in allowing more than one totem constellation linkage.

Sounds pretty solid to me! I love being intentionally vague on these sorts of things! >: )

*Whistles innocently at the Spirit Realm.*


To be honest, I wouldn't touch the totem warrior issue with a 10' pole until it's resolved.

Contributor

Cheapy wrote:
To be honest, I wouldn't touch the totem warrior issue with a 10' pole until it's resolved.

Agreed. That's why I find Caedwyr's suggestion an elegant sidestep to an issue that may or may not happen in the future.


I'd recommend taking another look at the flavour text for the Occult Priest archetype. It seems fairly rough and somewhat like placeholder text. There's not really anything about it that makes me want to play an occult priest.


In the occult priest section "Bind Spirit" there is a reference to a pactsworn pagan. This should probably be "occult priest" instead.


In the occult priest section "Diminished Spellcasting" there is a reference to the soul weaver that seems out of place. I'm not sure what should be referenced here.

In the "domain lore" section, there's reference to "the cleric" as well as "the occult priest" if these are one and the same, it would probably be best to refer to "the occult priest" to keep things clear.


In the Pactsworn Pagan section, none of the class features replaced are bolded like the previous archetype sections.


In the Pactsworn Pagan section, none of the spells listed on the right column have asterisks or daggers denoting their source.


Also, while the Occultist name is serviceable enough, have you considered calling the class the Binder or Pact Binder?


Page 20, the Capstone Binder feat is missing the bolding from the "Special" text.


Most of the Legend text for the various spirits seems somewhat rough and abridged. I'd suggest taking a look at rewriting most of these so they flow better, are more evocative and seem more complete.


The Sorcerer Bloodline is missing the the bonus feats section.


Ooh, tholas! I've been waiting all day to say that and you beat me to it! Jerk.

Contributor

Caedwyr wrote:
I'd recommend taking another look at the flavour text for the Occult Priest archetype. It seems fairly rough and somewhat like placeholder text. There's not really anything about it that makes me want to play an occult priest.

This do it any better for you?

Quote:
In the occult priest section "Bind Spirit" there is a reference to a pactsworn pagan. This should probably be "occult priest" instead.

Fixed.

Quote:

In the occult priest section "Diminished Spellcasting" there is a reference to the soul weaver that seems out of place. I'm not sure what should be referenced here.

In the "domain lore" section, there's reference to "the cleric" as well as "the occult priest" if these are one and the same, it would probably be best to refer to "the occult priest" to keep things clear.

1. Copy/paste error. Fixed; replace "soul weaver" with "occult priest" and "high Intelligence" with "high wisdom".

2. Fixed.

Quote:
In the Pactsworn Pagan section, none of the class features replaced are bolded like the previous archetype sections.

Unsurprisingly, the Pactsworn Pagan was the first archetype I wrote into the first version of the manuscript. Fixed.

Also, Pactsworn Pagan has the same problem in the Bind Spirits section as the Occult Priest, I noticed. That's been fixed (same as Occult Priest, just use Pactsworn Pagan instead).

Quote:
In the Pactsworn Pagan section, none of the spells listed on the right column have asterisks or daggers denoting their source.

They're all from the Core Rulebook except for the two that are sourced under the bullet list (undead anatomy and vermin shape).

Quote:
Also, while the Occultist name is serviceable enough, have you considered calling the class the Binder or Pact Binder?

Calling the class "the binder" is out of the question because of its ties to Wizards of the Coasts. Also, I named the class in the spirit of Pathfinder; the word "occultist" comes with the perfect set of prior knowledge; someone who does dark, mysterious things that most people don't quite understand. The pact binder (and even its original name, the spirit binder) has none of those benefits, which is why it lost out to occultist.

Quote:
Page 20, the Capstone Binder feat is missing the bolding from the "Special" text.

Fixed.

Quote:
Most of the Legend text for the various spirits seems somewhat rough and abridged. I'd suggest taking a look at rewriting most of these so they flow better, are more evocative and seem more complete.

You have no idea how heavily abridged they are. No idea, man. NO. IDEA. I'll see what I can do, but I can't promise anything. As much as I love the fluff, Dario is planning on doing an anthology of the short stories that comprised the spirit legends and some point.

Tholas wrote:
The Sorcerer Bloodline is missing the the bonus feats section.

Fixed.

Constellation Focus, Flexible Pact Making, Heighten Spell, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Shield against the Supernatural, Skill Focus (Knowledge (planes)), Spirit Focus


Alexander Augunas wrote:
Caedwyr wrote:
I'd recommend taking another look at the flavour text for the Occult Priest archetype. It seems fairly rough and somewhat like placeholder text. There's not really anything about it that makes me want to play an occult priest.

This do it any better for you?

I'll see if I can think of something a bit snazzier.

Alexander Augunas wrote:

Caedwyr wrote:
Also, while the Occultist name is serviceable enough, have you considered calling the class the Binder or Pact Binder?
Calling the class "the binder" is out of the question because of its ties to Wizards of the Coasts. Also, I named the class in the spirit of Pathfinder; the word "occultist" comes with the perfect set of prior knowledge; someone who does dark, mysterious things that most people don't quite understand. The pact binder (and even its original name, the spirit binder) has none of those benefits, which is why it lost out to occultist.

Fair enough.

Alexander Augunas wrote:
"Caedwyr wrote:

Most of the Legend text for the various spirits seems somewhat rough and abridged. I'd suggest taking a look at rewriting most of these so they flow better, are more evocative and seem more complete.

You have no idea how heavily abridged they are. No idea, man. NO. IDEA. I'll see what I can do, but I can't promise anything. As much as I love the fluff, Dario is planning on doing an anthology of the short stories that comprised the spirit legends and some point.

I picked up a second-hand copy of the original Secrets of Pact Magic at my FLGS, so I do have a good idea of how heavily abridged these are. Still, whatever you can do to go over the text and make it seem less abridged, the better as the seams are showing with the current text.

Sovereign Court

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Great feedback!
:-)
Thank you!

I really want to pull together a small Book of Lost Souls. Maybe I'll be lazy today and start that rather than answer those pesky business emails!

Contributor

Okay, here are some revised legends:

Daeminthos wrote:
The spirit known as Daeminthos was once a powerful psychic who sought an apprentice in order to leave a legacy behind. Upon finding a suitable child, one that Daeminthos sensed was filled with potential, the master psychic quickly grew frustrated with the fallacies of the lad and quickly grew to crave his own youth more and more. Daeminthos would eventually come to muster a mind-swapping ritual that made use of a massive crystal apparatus in order to steal the youthful body of his apprentice, but Daeminthos arrogantly underestimated his apprentice and the apparatus came crashing down upon him, killing him and separating his consciousness into a thousand shattered crystals that became lost to time.
King Mutaros wrote:
The last of his family’s ancient line, King Mutaros ruled during an era where the kingdom faced countless enemies. Though the wise king faced his attention outward, Mutaros’s vile son lead a cult bend on claiming the family throne in the name of a demon lord, long banished to the far recesses of the cosmos. Through the son, this demon lord mustered an army of the damned against Mutaros, felling the great king and banishing his soul for all time to helplessly watch as his kingdom crumbled.
Malebolge Moors wrote:
According to forgotten tales, the infernal legions of Hell sprang into existence when a host of angels rebelled against the gods. Those angels were cast from heaven, stripped of their wings and left to burn in the lake of fire. While most rallied behind their leader, the newly crowned Lord of Hell, 13 angels sought to usurp their Lord’s place. When discovered, the traitors were beaten and cooked into a feast for the damned, the meal warping those angels who partook into the first devils. The traitors, now known as the Malebolge Moors, were wiped from the history of men and angels alike by the Lord of Hell, leaving their names and legacy with only a scant few souls.

I'll keep going through and see what I can do, but I don't think they're going to get much better then that in this book.

Contributor

Young Kiros wrote:
During a time of troubles and hardship, a young man named Kiros united the lower class citizens of a forgotten city-state together against their king. Kiros was a man of sweet words and was able to infiltrate the aristocracy. When the king learned of the revolution, he ordered Kiros’s followers rounded up one by one, until even Kiros himself was brought before the king for judgment. As punishment, the revolutionists were beheaded, their heads magically kept alive and shrunken into a feebleminded husk on display in the king’s palace. Though few scholars claim to know exactly what caused Kiros to become a spirit, the folktale versions of the tale claim that the gods punished Kiros and his followers for trying to use lies and treachery to unseat a man given the divine right to rule.
Evening Star wrote:
An infamous horror tale that originated from halfling bards tells of a time when a star fell into the hills not far from a small barrow of country folk. Several youths, having watched the star fall, walked to the site to investigate. By the morning, all but a measly handful of the barrow’s inhabitants had been transformed into hideous, gray mockeries of their former selves as a hideous red mist enveloped the town, corrupting all that breathed like cancer. Though the tale is a favorite of the parents of big folk to keep children safely indoors after nightfall, the tale is highly taboo among halflings for reasons they refuse to disclose.

That's all I have time for tonight; I'll get some more done tomorrow.

Contributor

Okay, I lied. One more.

Essek Avix wrote:
An ancient elven tale warning adolescents about the unnaturalness of interspecies love speaks of two twins named Essek and Avix. According to the tale, from the day the two half-dragons were born to their elven mother, Essek and Avix bickered and squabbled with one another over all matters. While there are countless versions of the tale, each with their own reasons as to why the twins came to blows, all versions of the tale agree that both Essek and Avix ended their brother’s life after days of fighting tooth, claw, and flame. The tale ends with the knowledge that the twins were eternally joined together in death as part of an endless cycle of torment, no deity willing to intervene for an abomination.

In addition, Essek Avix's titanic growth granted ability has been reduced to only increasing the binder's size by a single category but it also doesn't have a rounds per day limitation anymore. Basically, its the opposite of Aza'zati's smaller is better now. I like the juxtaposition, as both are dragon-constellation spirits.

Contributor

...
I love you people too much.

Portenta wrote:
Told as a tale warning against gazing for what should not be known, nearly every gypsie who seeks visions of the future is told the tale of Portenta, a medium who was badgered into gazing at her own death. Portenta discovered that she would never die; only cease to live. She spent many years of her life haunted by this vision, only to make it reality when Portenta attempted to lay a quarrel to rest by fusing two living creatures together, breaking the divine order. Portenta fell comatose as her soul was ripped from her and rend in two; she ceased to live but never died.
Musha'Vadu wrote:
In the city of Vadu, there were once two brothers. The older brother, whose name has been lost to the sands of time, inherited his father’s throne and basked in the light. The younger brother was called Musha and as an eternal prince he was neglected to the shadows. Determined to stay a charming prince forever, Musha learned to steal the youth of others to maintain his appearances. As people disappeared in the city of Vadu, many tried to end the treacherous Musha and all failed until one day when he invited a young suitor into his home. It is said that Musha tried to claim her, but she placed a searing light inside his heart, destroying his aged body and leaving his soul to the hungry shadows.


These flow much better. Thanks for taking the time to address the issue.

"Modified King Mutaros wrote:
The last of his family’s ancient line, King Mutaros ruled during an era where the kingdom faced countless enemies. Though the wise king faced his attention outward, Mutaros’s vile son lead a cult bent on claiming the family throne in the name of a demon lord, long banished to the far recesses of the cosmos. Through the son, this demon lord mustered an army of the damned against Mutaros, felling the great king and banishing his soul for all time to helplessly watch as his kingdom crumbled.

Also, typo correction in bold.

Sovereign Court

Alexander is a machine when it comes to cranking out material!


Some thoughts on feats. Please bear with me I am very short on time and "sitting" in a rather cramped train right now ...

Generally I am missing prerequisites tied into Pathfinder RPG.

Capstone Binder (Occult)
"Special: A warshade that selects this feat also gains access to the selected spirit’s major granted ability; they must beat the spirit’s DC by 15 instead of the usual 10 in order to receive it, however. This is in addition to the feat’s usual effects."

So with this feat a Warshade gains access to the selected spirit's major granted ability at the normal +10 DC? If yes, the descripion seems a little bit clunky to me.

I would suggest changing the "Improved/Greater Minor Binding" to "Minor Binding, Improved/Greater"

Supernatural Conciousness & Supernatural Slayer
Both feats are only very loosely tied into pact magic usage and have no other prerequisites. Yes they are very useful against Pact Magic users but I'd suggest adding some fitting prerequisites.
Imho "Supernatural Consciousness" is awfully powerful, even when it would just allow to uses Wis instead of Dex.

And I would suggest making a feat out of the "Multiclass binders whose classes possess different key ability modifiers (i.e. a pactsworn pagan uses their Wisdom modifier, a soul weaver uses their Intelligence modifier, etc.) uses the highest among their available modifiers to determine their binding check, granted ability DCs, etc. For example, a multiclass soul weaver / occultist would use the higher between their Charisma modifier and their Intelligence modifier for this purpose.
..." paragraph.

Contributor

Dario Nardi wrote:
Alexander is a machine when it comes to cranking out material!

It all comes at a cost, though. My copy of Diablo 3 has been gathering dust!

Also, made your change Caedwyr.

Contributor

Tholas wrote:
Generally I am missing prerequisites tied into Pathfinder RPG.

Don't need'em. Most of these feats are occult feats; they're specifically designed for Occultists. Why would I tie something new into old feats? Doesn't make much sense to me.

Quote:

Capstone Binder (Occult)

"Special: A warshade that selects this feat also gains access to the selected spirit’s major granted ability; they must beat the spirit’s DC by 15 instead of the usual 10 in order to receive it, however. This is in addition to the feat’s usual effects."

So with this feat a Warshade gains access to the selected spirit's major granted ability at the normal +10 DC? If yes, the descripion seems a little bit clunky to me.

The +15 needs to be specified because a warshade has to beat a spirit's DC +5 to get a major granted ability in the first place. The +15 acknowledges that this penalty just doesn't vanish into thin air; believe me, I can't assume people won't argue otherwise. I've met power gamers who would argue that the sky is pokadotted if it would give them a +1 bonus on damage rolls.

Quote:
I would suggest changing the "Improved/Greater Minor Binding" to "Minor Binding, Improved/Greater"

Nothing irks me more then seeing that in a book, to be honest.

Quote:

Supernatural Conciousness & Supernatural Slayer

Both feats are only very loosely tied into pact magic usage and have no other prerequisites. Yes they are very useful against Pact Magic users but I'd suggest adding some fitting prerequisites.

By this logic, the Paladin archetypes shouldn't be in the book because they are both anti-pact magic as well. I'm afraid I don't see a sound reason to add more prerequisites here and I think both work just fine the way they are; either as anti-pact magic feat or as sort of a fight fire with fire feat chain against supernatural foes.

Quote:
Imho "Supernatural Consciousness" is awfully powerful, even when it would just allow to uses Wis instead of Dex.

It is definitely a strong feat, I agree. No one has created a built yet where initiative has gotten completely out of hand, however, so I'll dismiss it until I see some evidence. The only build I can think of where the feat could easily get out of hand is a Pactsworn Pagan build.

Quote:

And I would suggest making a feat out of the "Multiclass binders whose classes possess different key ability modifiers (i.e. a pactsworn pagan uses their Wisdom modifier, a soul weaver uses their Intelligence modifier, etc.) uses the highest among their available modifiers to determine their binding check, granted ability DCs, etc. For example, a multiclass soul weaver / occultist would use the higher between their Charisma modifier and their Intelligence modifier for this purpose.

..." paragraph.

The reason this doesn't work is because of how multiclass binding works in general. Binder levels from multiple binding classes stack with one another; the reason for this is twofold. First, I didn't want to risk the possibility of a character taking a single-level dip into a pact magic archetype just to obtain an additional bound spirit (i.e. an occultist 1 / barbarian 1 / wizard 1 / bard 1 having four 1st level spirits. That's silly). Second, I am a huge fan of multiclassing and the design of the system reflects my personal opinions on how multiclassing should be.

For my multiclass system to work, there needs to be a rule on what to do if your binding classes have different key ability scores; use the highest is easiest. This does not trivialize classes; a soul weaver / occult priest who ignores Intellience for Wisdom is going to suffer, for example.

Silver Crusade

Every time I think I've found something to point out here in this thread, someone has already beat me to the punch. Still looking though...

Contributor

Here's some more revised legends for your entertainment:

Aza'zati wrote:
The wyrmling known as Aza’zati is the subject of a tale told by parents to small children to discourage greed and trickery. Aza’zati would con foolish humans into travelling with him only to devour them and take all of their gold when their guard was down. Arrogant Aza’zati feared only one thing and that was the loss of his youth, so when an old wizard offered to teach him the secrets of eternal life, Aza’zati could not refuse. The wizard brought Aza’zati to the tallest spire in all the land for the ritual, only to make the wyrmling disappear forever with a few simple words. The moral of the tale is that those who would prey on the foolish are doomed to be someone else’s fools.
Cave Mother wrote:
The most ancient known records of humanoid writing refer to an ancient woman known as the Cave Mother, she who brought the secrets of farm and flame to an ancient people. According to the legend, Cave Mother was cornered by a ghoul one fateful night while she gathered nuts and berries for her people. Thinking quickly to save her life, Cave Mother challenged the ghoul to a game of chance, using her knowledge of nature to tip the odds in her favor and forever steal its sorcerous powers for her own.
General Hessant wrote:
An unnamed village’s accounts tell a tale of a massive army of assorted men from different tribes and races that appeared from nowhere, led by a hobgoblin who called himself Hessant. The army claimed to be from a kingdom no one had ever heard of before, much to Hessant’s shock and horror. Before any could learn more of Hessant or his men, the army’s soldiers quickly fell to an unknown madness before the lot of them simply vanished away into the morning haze as if it had never been. People from the village, now a city, claims the soldiers haunt the mists that creep over it every spring.
Sevnoir wrote:
A popular myth regarding the creation of the shadow mastiff tells of an old elf that lived alone save for his faithful hound. When the elf died, the dog howled for her master continually as soon as the sun set until the next morning. The horrible wail kept the neighbors and their children up late into the night until they could take it no more and the old elf’s home was burned to the ground to silence it. The next night the baying grew louder, filled with the rage rather than sorrow. The next morning, all of the men and women who had burned the house to the ground were dead, their throats ripped from under their heads.

That's all for now! Stay tuned.

Contributor

Blayde MacRonan wrote:
Every time I think I've found something to point out here in this thread, someone has already beat me to the punch. Still looking though...

That's good!

For me, at least. ^_~


Can you send the document here as well?

Contributor

Lady Jarah wrote:
The tale of Lady Jarah was written by a bard by the name of Jomel, a master story composer. Jarah’s character was a changeling, able to take on whatever form she pleased, causing her mythos to expand to the point where men viewed her as the perfect woman. According to urban myth, Jomel was constantly beset by suitors seeking to marry the lovely Lady Jarah and his own wife was mistaken for a character in his tales. Although some say that Jarah’s author’s final words before he died was a plea to his wife to end Jarah’s tale once and for all, Jomel’s story had come too far and had ensnared the hearts and minds of so many people that it could never truly die.
Mute Sylvus wrote:
Would-be elven rangers are told the story of the infamous ranger Sylvus as a warning to the perils of their profession. Sylvus, according to the tale, was an elven ranger who hunted game for his village. Although Sylvus knew crossing the river east of his home was dangerous, he wished to show his skills off to his sons and convinced the hunters to game beyond the river. On the first night’s camp, the hunters were besieged by large, feathered monsters and many of their kin were dragged off into the night, never to be seen again. By the second night, only Sylvus and his sons remained, huddled in their tent. They tried to flee at first light, but the hideous bird-demons returned, snatching away Sylvus’s oldest sons and leaving the youngest and his father to recount the tale. Sylvus was eternally haunted by what he saw and never spoke another word again, his soul too traumatized by loss.
Tyrant Cromwell wrote:
Many kingdoms harbor a tale of the time when a powerful, vile man almost conquered the world. The man’s name was Cromwell, and according to legend as a lad he was once a squire in the church for a god of justice. The story goes that Cromwell fell madly in love with a dame that took no heed of him so upon coming of age Cromwell set out on a crusade with his master, determined to return home a hero and win over the heart of his love. Although the tale differs in every region, all end with Cromwell’s return to his home with an army of the damned. Cromwell quickly enslaved the populace and sought to make his former love his queen, but the girl was long-gone. Cromwell vowed to spread his tyranny across this world and every world beyond in order to find here and although no tale can agree on what, if anything, finally toppled Cromwell’s throne, all agree that Cromwell never sated his obsession."
Ubro wrote:
The tragedy of the halfling Ubro is one of the most classical written works to come from the halflings. In the tale, Ubro was the oldest sibling in a long family tradition of serving the king in times of war, so he met his duty and enlisted as a medic. During a fateful battle, Ubro was gravely injured. When he awoke, he found that he had healing powers, granted to him by a sinister fiend. When given the choice to simply die or to live, suffer, and heal others, Ubro bravely continued onward on his travels until the demon consumed his soul entirely.

That's all the 1st, 2nd, 8th, and 9th level spirits. Let me know what you think of these revised legends; do they read better, do they still capture the themes of the spirit? Etc.

Contributor

The one thing that I'm wondering now is whether or not it is redundant to place the bonus on vestigial checks that one recieves for utilizing totems in the description of every spirit; the bonus is listed in Chapter 3 under totems, after all.

The reason I'm wondering this is that I'm rebuilding Chapter 3 to make it look a bit nicer. I'd like to hear some thoughts on this. I don't think "+2 if you have 1 totem, +4 if you have all" is very hard to remember, personally, but I'm biased as the author. :-P

Contributor

Oh yeah, I just removed that line from the spirits and replaced it with a reference line; saves SO much space. There's easily room for small pictures on a bunch of spirits, now.

Plus, I have more space for upcoming revisions! Everyone wins!

The new Chapter 3 is looking VERY sharp as well. I am very pleased with it! Chapter 4 had its intro altered a little bit; I saved so much space with my revisions to Chapter 3 that I moved the "Where Spirits Dwell" sidebar to Chapter 4 and expanded the spirit table into its own page, which now includes the spirit's binding DC, constellation, and which page it is on.

Huzzah!


Modified version suggestions below:

Original Daeminthos wrote:
The spirit known as Daeminthos was once a powerful psychic who sought an apprentice in order to leave a legacy behind. Upon finding a suitable child, one that Daeminthos sensed was filled with potential, the master psychic quickly grew frustrated with the fallacies of the lad and quickly grew to crave his own youth more and more. Daeminthos would eventually come to muster a mind-swapping ritual that made use of a massive crystal apparatus in order to steal the youthful body of his apprentice, but Daeminthos arrogantly underestimated his apprentice and the apparatus came crashing down upon him, killing him and separating his consciousness into a thousand shattered crystals that became lost to time.
Modified Daeminthos wrote:
The spirit known as Daeminthos was once a powerful psychic who sought an apprentice in order to leave a legacy behind. However, upon beginning the instruction of a child with great potential, the master psychic quickly grew frustrated with his pupil's shortcomings and grew to crave his own youth. Daeminthos would eventually attempt a mind-swapping ritual that made use of a massive crystal apparatus in order to steal the youthful body of his apprentice. Unfortunately for Daeminthos, he arrogantly underestimated his apprentice and in the resulting battle, the apparatus came crashing down upon him, killing Daeminthos and separating his consciousness into a thousand crystal shards that became lost to time.
Original King Mutaros wrote:
The last of his family’s ancient line, King Mutaros ruled during an era where the kingdom faced countless enemies. Though the wise king faced his attention outward, Mutaros’s vile son lead a cult bend on claiming the family throne in the name of a demon lord, long banished to the far recesses of the cosmos. Through the son, this demon lord mustered an army of the damned against Mutaros, felling the great king and banishing his soul for all time to helplessly watch as his kingdom crumbled.
Modified King Mutaros wrote:
The last of his family’s ancient line, King Mutaros ruled during an era where the kingdom faced countless enemies. While the wise king faced his attention outward, Mutaros’s vile son lead a cult bent on claiming the family throne in the name of a demon lord, long banished to the far recesses of the cosmos. Through the son, this demon lord mustered an army of the damned against Mutaros, felling the great king and banishing his soul for all time to helplessly watch as his kingdom crumbled.
Original Malebolge Moors wrote:
According to forgotten tales, the infernal legions of Hell sprang into existence when a host of angels rebelled against the gods. Those angels were cast from heaven, stripped of their wings and left to burn in the lake of fire. While most rallied behind their leader, the newly crowned Lord of Hell, 13 angels sought to usurp their Lord’s place. When discovered, the traitors were beaten and cooked into a feast for the damned, the meal warping those angels who partook into the first devils. The traitors, now known as the Malebolge Moors, were wiped from the history of men and angels alike by the Lord of Hell, leaving their names and legacy with only a scant few souls.
Modified Malebolge Moors wrote:
According to forgotten tales, the infernal legions of Hell sprang into existence when a host of angels rebelled against the gods. Those angels were cast from heaven, stripped of their wings and left to burn in the lake of fire. While most rallied behind their leader, the newly crowned Lord of Hell, 13 fallen angels sought to usurp their Lord’s place. When the conspirators were discovered they were beaten and cooked into a feast for the fallen angels loyal to the Lord of Hell. Those who partook of the unholy meal were warped into the first devils and almost all mention of the conspirators, the Malebolge Moors, were wiped from the histories of men and angels alike by the Lord of Hell, leaving only a scant few souls with the knowledge of their names and legacy.

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