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PaizoCon 2014!

[Radiance House] Secrets of Pact Magic Open Playtesting Month


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Spoiler:
Kenneth wiped the sweat from his brow as he slowly poured the venom into his mother's chalice, careful to never spill a single drop least he ruin the delicate chalk lines that danced across Vandrae's seal. He lifted the chalice up slowly, his hands shaking as the cold metal touched his lips.

It won't hurt me, he thought. She won't let it kill me. He took the first sip and nearly gagged, as if every natural fiber of being was trying to warn him that what he was doing wasn't 'natural.' Kenneth knew it wasn't and drank deeply anyway.

It wasn't bad at first. However, the very moment that Kenneth allowed himself to feel a twinge of relief was when it started; violent, gut-wrenching pain seared his stomach as he clutched it, watching in horror as his blue veins pulsed an acidic green. The horrendous sight was too much for the occultist to bear; he vomited onto the seal that he had spent so much time drawing and perfecting. His bile was a dark, sickly black; the color of dried blood.

Wiping his mouth on his sleeve, Kenneth was sure that he had failed the ritual. That is, until he noticed something. Something repulsive. His bile had begun to faintly twitch in the faint candle light, slowly at first and growing faster and faster, until finally a large lump of black ichor complied in front of him. Roughly two feet tall, the ichor shaped and modeled itself; Kenneth fell back upon the moist ground, a testament to his prior sickness. Slowly the ichor bleed and molded itself as if it were nothing more then clay under the command of an invisible sculptor. The figure of an elf stood before him. A slit that could only be its mouth opened, speaking.

"Thou hath summoned Vandrae; state your bargain."

Forgotten Secrets have been unearthed ....

Radiance House invites the Pathfinder Community to partake in an event that, quite frankly, we're very excited for. Dario Nardi and myself have been working tirelessly for the past few months to bring something extraordinary back from the sands of time that buried it. I'm talking, of course, about Pact Magic.

What is Pact Magic? Pact Magic refers to the binding of otherworldly spirits onto the soul of a person that prepares a relatively simple ritual, often known as a binder. Texts referring to this particular form of magic date back to the 17th Century, featured the first section of the Lesser Key of Solomon. As a game mechanic, Pact Magic is a supplemental rules system that was made famous by the world's most popular roleplaying game in 2006 and was expanded upon further by Dario Nardi, owner and lead of Radiance House publishing.

Now, Dario and I want to bring pact magic to more roleplayers then ever before, through the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game community. After some in-house playtesting, Dario and I would like to invite anyone who is interested in playtesting the new rules for the first installment, Secrets of Pact Magic, before its upcoming release.

About Secrets of Pact Magic
This book is NOT just a rehash of the original Secrets of Pact Magic book. The Pathfinder version of this book features all-new content; everything from the core of the rules to the spirits themselves have been tweaked and altered to bring them in line with the modernized philosophy of roleplaying games, as made standard by Paizo Publishing. Here's a small (i.e. not comprehensive) list of material that you'll unearth in this book:

  • A new base class, the occultist, as well as an occultist archetype.
  • Archetypes for the 11 core classes.
  • New abilities such as a new cleric domain, barbarian rage powers, rogue talents, an oathbound paladin oath, and more!
  • A new type of feat to modify your pact magic, known as occult feats.
  • Binder Secrets; special abilities that can be taken by an occultist in place of a feat.
  • Constellation aspects; effectively 0-level spirit powers that allow you to increase the binding DC of a spirit in order to gain an additional granted ability.
  • 32 spirits, ranging in level from 1st to 9th. These spirits have been compiled from both of Dario's books, Secrets of Pact Magic and Villains of Pact Magic.
  • And much more!

When Is This Being Released?
Right now, Dario and I are planning to officially release Secrets of Pact Magic at PaizoCon this year; that means that we don't have a whole lot of time to get this open playtesting started!

What Can I Do to Help?
If you are interested in helping out with the Beta Testing of these rules, you need to do no more then announce your interest here. Here's how you do this:

#1 - Leave a post in this thread clearly voicing your interest. You get bonus points if you include a short remark as to what interested you in this playtest; it can be anything from "I used the original books!" to "You caught me at Playtest!"

#2 - I'll send you a PM with a link to the playtesting document. Its really that simple!

I'm something of a forum lurker, so if you post, there's a fairly good chance that I'll get to you reasonably quickly.

How long will playtesting last and what are you looking to have tested?

Excellent question! As publisher, Dario has informed me that he needs the book shipped out to places like the editor and eventually the printer in the month of June. This means that we only have about two weeks, maybe three to really get this show on the road.

As to what I'm looking for? Go wild with the playtesting and theorycrafting. I want to see and hear everything you people have to say. Please keep all of your comments in this one thread, however.

Send me as many impressions as you can muster; does this look too good? Does this look not good enough? Did you find a potentially broken combination of spirits / abilities? Tell me everything!

As I mentioned before, I'm something of a lurker, so I'll do my best to respond as frequently as I can; however, I can't promise that I'll respond to every question I receive. Just most of them :). Any questions, comments, concerns, criticisms, whatever can all be posted here in this thread and I think Dario himself is planning on stopping by and chatting when he can.

So, without further adieu ...

Let the games begin!


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Pact Magic?! Sign me up! Me likey binding/entreating/subjugating various extra dimensional spirits :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

This saves me a horribly long amount of work converting these books over to PFRPG. I'm very excited to see this happening.


Caedwyr wrote:
This saves me a horribly long amount of work converting these books over to PFRPG. I'm very excited to see this happening.

Just wanted to point out that only a fraction of the original books' material is in this softcover. If this sourcebook is a hit, I would be honored to write more of them, Dario allowing. :-P

First two playtests send!

Osirion

1 person marked this as a favorite.

For what it's worth, I've helped out with some of the closed playtesting (I'm Phillip!) and have really enjoyed what I've played with so far. If you're a fan of WotC's Tome of Magic or the previous Spirits of Pact Magic, or if you're interested in a magic system that is completely different from the traditional Vancian system, I highly recommend checking this out. It's awesome.

Taldor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Howdy binder apprentices! :-)

Creating "Secrets of Pact Magic" etc. has been one of the creative highlights of my life. Alas, it was a d20 System product born at the transition to Pathfinder RPG. Though SoPM didn't need much conversion, the fact is Paizo and its fans have taken the system in new directions. After much pestering by certain persons (who may not remain nameless!), now is the time :-).

Alexander has done an incredible job spearheading this project. I've been extra-impressed and am delighted to stand by him now. This brand spanking new baby will be just as illustrated, professional, and orthogonal as the originals (I don't take credit for the orthogonal part; pact making from the real world is just that way).

Naturally, a 64-page circumscription presented a challenge. Alexander mainly translated the favorites. A second supplement can add a lot more :-).

I'll be making an effort to pop in every day to read and respond.

Thank you! And happy gaming :-).

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8

Dario Nardi wrote:

Howdy binder apprentices! :-)

Creating "Secrets of Pact Magic" etc. has been one of the creative highlights of my life. Alas, it was a d20 System product born at the transition to Pathfinder RPG. Though SoPM didn't need much conversion, the fact is Paizo and its fans have taken the system in new directions. After much pestering by certain persons (who may not remain nameless!), now is the time :-).

Alexander has done an incredible job spearheading this project. I've been extra-impressed and am delighted to stand by him now. This brand spanking new baby will be just as illustrated, professional, and orthogonal as the originals (I don't take credit for the orthogonal part; pact making from the real world is just that way).

Naturally, a 64-page circumscription presented a challenge. Alexander mainly translated the favorites. A second supplement can add a lot more :-).

I'll be making an effort to pop in every day to read and respond.

Thank you! And happy gaming :-).

Sorry, this a little off topic, but I was checking your website out for RPG stuff. I was bit surprised to find that you had also written the Meyers-Brigg book with Linda Berens that I studied in one of my graduate courses last semester. Good stuff.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Hmm. I can't promise a live playtest this month, but some of my players did mention that they missed binders. I could do some theorycrafting and maybe some mock interaction* with one of the interested players, if it helps. And it might sell you a few copies just for hurdling the "don't know if it's any good before we buy it" barrier. : D

Summary: yes, I am interested!

Spoiler:
* Technically, I guess it's always "mock interaction"....

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

As I am without an active group at this point, there's not a lot of playtesting I can do right now, but if you want some theorycraft-work, hook me up. Loved the books, and if you ever want to hear about what a 60 HD Savrok Cyclopes can do to a group of Epic level PCs, let me know.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

Forgotten Secrets have been unearthed ....

Radiance House invites the Pathfinder Community to partake in an event that, quite frankly, we're very excited for. Dario Nardi and myself have been working tirelessly for the past few months to bring something extraordinary...

I use the material weekly in three Pathfinder games, and have been running from the old books using the conversion guide. I have played four binder and other binding class characters and am very interested to see what you do with the ruleset.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Dario & Alexander, I would love to playtest this however with that time window I doubt I can actually do anything more than read-test it... I'm really excited to see this though - long time fan...I hope you keep the Dune-esque elements in this new version :)

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
John Benbo wrote:
Sorry, this a little off topic, but I was checking your website out for RPG stuff. I was bit surprised to find that you had also written the Meyers-Brigg book with Linda Berens that I studied in one of my graduate courses last semester. Good stuff.

It's true! Besides a dozen of those books, I do workshops around neuroscience of personality. It all pays the bills to make the extra-fun stuff possible. Glad you enjoyed them :-).

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I loved Pact Magic as presented in WotC's Tome of Magic, my only misgiving was that the abilities you gained were very much based on magical creatures - I'd have been interested to see some more "nature" based options than "extraplanar" etc, such as drawing strength from totem animals etc.

So I bought Radiance House's Secrets of Pact Magic (and there was also a companion book) in an instant to see your take on things, and also very much enjoyed what I read therein.

Unfortunately, I've not had an opportunity to play from either Tome of Magic, or Secrets of Pact Magic, because:

a) as Venture-Captain Melbourne Australia, I'm very much involved with the PFS organised play; and

b) when I do get an opportunity to play outside of org play guidelines, eg Adventure Paths, my GM tends to be rather traditional and not permit third-party content.

On-the-other-hand, when GMing Adventure Paths myself, I tend to be more generous allowing my players access to third-party content, because I enjoy new material and the creativity it provides, and it's one of the few opportunities I have to enjoy these options.

I'd be very interested to read any beta rules - I'm guaranteed to purchase the finished product in any case. My involvement with PFS org play probably means my ability to participate in the playtest will be limited (games already scheduled in advance), but having access to a team of local players, I might be able to pull something together.

Cheers,
--
Stephen (DarkWhite)
Pathfinder Society 5-Star GM
Venture-Captain Melbourne Australia

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kvantum wrote:
As I am without an active group at this point, there's not a lot of playtesting I can do right now, but if you want some theorycraft-work, hook me up. Loved the books, and if you ever want to hear about what a 60 HD Savrok Cyclopes can do to a group of Epic level PCs, let me know.

Ah, the Savrok construct, with 4 brains for 4 standard actions per round, with 13 disintegration eye rays and 13 ghost touch tentacles, fast healing and immunity to magic, and a 9th-level bound spirit to boot. Yes, she's a beaut. He he he.

Now, advance that from 26th level to 60 HD. Gosh. I left they were crying and gnashing their teeth over that one. :-)

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
apexut wrote:
I use the material weekly in three Pathfinder games, and have been running from the old books using the conversion guide. I have played four binder and other binding class characters and am very interested to see what you do with the ruleset.

Bless your heart!


blahpers wrote:

Hmm. I can't promise a live playtest this month, but some of my players did mention that they missed binders. I could do some theorycrafting and maybe some mock interaction* with one of the interested players, if it helps. And it might sell you a few copies just for hurdling the "don't know if it's any good before we buy it" barrier. : D

Summary: yes, I am interested!

** spoiler omitted **

Theorycrafting is fine, and yup! That's one of the huge benefits of playtesting; get people interested in your product and confident in your abilities as a writer at no (or little) cost to them!

"Kvantim wrote:
As I am without an active group at this point, there's not a lot of playtesting I can do right now, but if you want some theorycraft-work, hook me up. Loved the books, and if you ever want to hear about what a 60 HD Savrok Cyclopes can do to a group of Epic level PCs, let me know.

As above, I love theorycrafting, so shoot away. I try hard, but sometimes I miss obvious stuff.

And remind me to remind you to tell me all about that when Paizo does Mythic rules. ^_~

apexut wrote:
I use the material weekly in three Pathfinder games, and have been running from the old books using the conversion guide. I have played four binder and other binding class characters and am very interested to see what you do with the ruleset.

You're gonna want to stick with some of the stuff you've converted, then (mostly spirits, items, and PrCs) but all of your classes are gonna be covered here.

DarkWhite wrote:

I loved Pact Magic as presented in WotC's Tome of Magic, my only misgiving was that the abilities you gained were very much based on magical creatures - I'd have been interested to see some more "nature" based options than "extraplanar" etc, such as drawing strength from totem animals etc.

So I bought Radiance House's Secrets of Pact Magic (and there was also a companion book) in an instant to see your take on things, and also very much enjoyed what I read therein.

Unfortunately, I've not had an opportunity to play from either Tome of Magic, or Secrets of Pact Magic, because:

a) as Venture-Captain Melbourne Australia, I'm very much involved with the PFS organised play; and

b) when I do get an opportunity to play outside of org play guidelines, eg Adventure Paths, my GM tends to be rather traditional and not permit third-party content.

On-the-other-hand, when GMing Adventure Paths myself, I tend to be more generous allowing my players access to third-party content, because I enjoy new material and the creativity it provides, and it's one of the few opportunities I have to enjoy these options.

I'd be very interested to read any beta rules - I'm guaranteed to purchase the finished product in any case. My involvement with PFS org play probably means my ability to participate in the playtest will be limited (games already scheduled in advance), but having access to a team of local players, I might be able to pull something together.

Cheers,

The more eyes that look at it equals the less revisions and reprintings we have to do in the long run, so every bit helps! Glad to have you and everyone else on-board.

-----

And with that, I believe I've sent the document out to everyone. Leave me a note in this list or PM me if I missed you; it was not intentional in slightest. I'm thrilled about how much response this has gotten in its first ... three hours or so of being up!

I understand that the playtest period is limited and games may be very few and far between. I appreciate all feedback we get; just make sure to list whether or not your experience was in-game or generated through theorycraft.

Also, don't hesitate to point out spelling errors or inappropriate usages in other places. Dario and I haven't sent this puppy through the elbow grease machine that is editing and interior layout.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I hope OI haven't missed out on the playtest! Damn my crazy schedule. I love theorycrafting and playtesting stuff with several friends of mine down here in the Sunshine State. I'd be down with providing feedback.


Odraude wrote:
I hope OI haven't missed out on the playtest! Damn my crazy schedule. I love theorycrafting and playtesting stuff with several friends of mine down here in the Sunshine State. I'd be down with providing feedback.

]

You caught me just as I was about to head off to bed! You lucky squid/octopus/thing/protean, you!


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

I own the original books, and a player for my upcoming "Way of the Wicked" campaign is interesting in playing a pact magic user, so we would love to playtest the new version!


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Best news EVAR! I was a huge fan of the original Secrets of Pact Magic and the Villains of Pact Magic expansion, and I'm thrilled to see this!

I'm starting a new campaign next week with my group, and I'd love to introduce pact magic options from the get-go, so please sign me up for the playtest! I also love a good round of theorycrafting (though I have less time than I'd like for it these days) so I'll do my best to help out!

Also, Dario, congratulations on the recent release of the Radiance RPG. I haven't had time to look it over as thoroughly as I'd like, but it looks fantastic.

(And one more thing, are the materials you posted on the now-defunct forums from the Radiance House website gone for good? I remember you had some new pact spirits there - one based loosely on the Twilight series, for example, that let you seduce vampires, succubi, and similar monsters - and it'd be great if you could bring them back somehow.)


Seconded! BEST NEWS EVAR!

Andoran

Count me in. I'll be happy to help theorycraft. I don't have any experience with the original pact magic, but I'm interested in seeing what you've come up with. (Especially the archetypes for other classes.)


Zaister wrote:
I own the original books, and a player for my upcoming "Way of the Wicked" campaign is interesting in playing a pact magic user, so we would love to playtest the new version!

Horray! I would love to participate!

I was leafing through "Secrets" and was actually kind of reconsidering playing a pact magic character. As much as I love the flair of the book it is too much 3.5ish and most classes and options not quite up to par with the adjusted powerlevel of the Pathfinder RPG options.

<wishful thinking>
... and I would be really extatic if something with the flavor of the PrC "Apostle of the Green Lady" from James Jacobs would be in the book. Someone who binds only to a specific spirit, possibly for some deeper motive than to gain power. I would really like to play an evil version of my old Age of Worms Cleric in the upcoming campaign. ^^
</wishful thinking>

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm interested in this. I've heard others go on (both here on the forums and out in the world) about how great the 3.5 Pact Magic supplements were, but never got to play with it for myself.

Andoran

I'd love to see where you're going with this. I've had the desire to make a campaign where pact magic is the only magic source for some time now...


Count me in too,

In the game I'm running the PCs have plane hopped to a alternate plane (they think its Arcadia) and I would love to spring some new magic types on them.


I'm interested in this mostly for the idea of a occultist class dealing with other worldy spirits and entities. i have a game coming up eventually when the groups free that will be going through carrion crown or carrion hill depending on how it plays out and some other worldly magic would be a great addition to some other stuff we will playtest.


I'm completely onboard with being involved with this. The notion of a class that dabbles with otherworldly forces is always a treasure trove for a DM and in the hands of a skilled player offers new and innovative ways to interact within the game. This looks to be fun on every level.


A couple of proof-reading issues that caught my eye when I was giving this a quick read.

Page 2, under Pact Augmentation (Su). The bullet point sentences starting with: Insight, Offense, Regenerative, Speed, Toughness, and Vicious are missing full-stops at the end of their lines.

I'll add more things as I see them and give my impressions after I've read the whole thing through.


While my editing skills are lacking I would love to look over and help polish a rare gem such as thins.


Alzrius wrote:
(And one more thing, are the materials you posted on the now-defunct forums from the Radiance House website gone for good? I remember you had some new pact spirits there - one based loosely on the Twilight series, for example, that let you seduce vampires, succubi, and similar monsters - and it'd be great if you could bring them back somehow.)

I'm not aware of this spirit, but as far as I know Dario hasn't changed that website yet.

"Tholas wrote:
... and I would be really extatic if something with the flavor of the PrC "Apostle of the Green Lady" from James Jacobs would be in the book. Someone who binds only to a specific spirit, possibly for some deeper motive than to gain power. I would really like to play an evil version of my old Age of Worms Cleric in the upcoming campaign. ^^

I'll see what I can do. I'm not familiar with the PrC you're referring to. This book, being a softcover, has no Prestige Classes in it. But that doesn't mean I won't ever write one. I've never hidden my love of Prestige Classes from the community and my overall distaste with how they've been handled so far in Pathfinder. (I'm going to save any real judgment until I actually have read the upcoming Paths of Prestige, however.)

As a matter of fact, I'm working on updating a pair of Prestige classes I wrote a long while ago right now ....

Alice Margatroid wrote:
I'd love to see where you're going with this. I've had the desire to make a campaign where pact magic is the only magic source for some time now...

Just be forewarned that this system shines when Clerics and Occultists can go head-to-head against one another. Also, many powers and abilities reference traditional spells.

"The Terrible Zodin wrote:

Count me in too,

In the game I'm running the PCs have plane hopped to a alternate plane (they think its Arcadia) and I would love to spring some new magic types on them.

I hope this is what you're looking for, then!

Freedom16 wrote:
I'm interested in this mostly for the idea of a occultist class dealing with other worldy spirits and entities. i have a game coming up eventually when the groups free that will be going through carrion crown or carrion hill depending on how it plays out and some other worldly magic would be a great addition to some other stuff we will playtest.

Occultists are perfect for horror-esque games like Carrion Crown.

Incabulos wrote:
I'm completely onboard with being involved with this. The notion of a class that dabbles with otherworldly forces is always a treasure trove for a DM and in the hands of a skilled player offers new and innovative ways to interact within the game. This looks to be fun on every level.

Oh deary, this fun on more levels then you can possibly comprehend. *evil grin*

Talonhawke wrote:
While my editing skills are lacking I would love to look over and help polish a rare gem such as thins.

Triple bonus points for calling it a "rare gem!"


Caedwyr wrote:

A couple of proof-reading issues that caught my eye when I was giving this a quick read.

Page 2, under Pact Augmentation (Su). The bullet point sentences starting with: Insight, Offense, Regenerative, Speed, Toughness, and Vicious are missing full-stops at the end of their lines.

I'll add more things as I see them and give my impressions after I've read the whole thing through.

I had to Google what a "full-stop" was. You may call me an ignorant, uncouth American if you wish. :-)


I might have to revise my "No third-party" rule, once my campaign is over of course. The binder is just THAT awesome.

I had thought of converting it myself, but you people might just save me a lot of work. Sign me up!


Kevin-Éric Bouchard wrote:

I might have to revise my "No third-party" rule, once my campaign is over of course. The binder is just THAT awesome.

I had thought of converting it myself, but you people might just save me a lot of work. Sign me up!

The greatest of minds change!


Alexander Augunas wrote:

"Tholas wrote:
... and I would be really extatic if something with the flavor of the PrC "Apostle of the Green Lady" from James Jacobs would be in the book. Someone who binds only to a specific spirit, possibly for some deeper motive than to gain power. I would really like to play an evil version of my old Age of Worms Cleric in the upcoming campaign. ^^
I'll see what I can do. I'm not familiar with the PrC you're referring to. This book, being a softcover, has no Prestige Classes in it. But that doesn't mean I won't ever write one.

The Apostle of the Green Lady is a modified version of a PrC from Tome of Magic. We converted our chars to Pathfinder Beta back then and my GM recommended Secrets of Pact Magic. I was thinking of converting my char to this ruleset but sadly this campaign was interrupted and later canceled.

Well, but that was really just wishful thinking. I would be totally content with a new and shiny pact magic sourcebook.

Alexander Augunas wrote:

I've never hidden my love of Prestige Classes from the community and my overall distaste with how they've been handled so far in Pathfinder. (I'm going to save any real judgment until I actually have read the upcoming Paths of Prestige, however.)

Yes, PrCs are not nearly as desireable in Pathfinder then they were in 3.5. Personaly I think that is not really a bad thing. Remember all those 'loose nothing important from your base class and gain awesome powers' (3.5 Cleric I look at thee!) PrCs? Now you're thinking twice to stray from your main class. But yes, imho some of the PrCs(and other alternate class options) are sort of underwhelming.


I am more than interested in this porduct!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kevin-Éric Bouchard wrote:

I might have to revise my "No third-party" rule, once my campaign is over of course. The binder is just THAT awesome.

I had thought of converting it myself, but you people might just save me a lot of work. Sign me up!

And so the great wall starts to crumble...

Grats Golden-esque.


Cheapy wrote:
Kevin-Éric Bouchard wrote:

I might have to revise my "No third-party" rule, once my campaign is over of course. The binder is just THAT awesome.

I had thought of converting it myself, but you people might just save me a lot of work. Sign me up!

And so the great wall starts to tumble...

Grats Golden-esque.

No! Cheapy has exposed my secret identity! *hides in shame*


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Alexander Augunas wrote:
I'm not aware of this spirit, but as far as I know Dario hasn't changed that website yet.

I meant the forums on the www.pactmagic.com website, which have been taken down for quite a while now.


I would be interested in this. I was never a big fan of the binder class, but one of my players was. I shot down letting him be one. I have since become more lenient, and would like to reintroduce this into my game. He'll be delighted, and I would love to help you make a better product.


Alzrius wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
I'm not aware of this spirit, but as far as I know Dario hasn't changed that website yet.
I meant the forums on the www.pactmagic.com website, which have been taken down for quite a while now.

Ah. That. Well, I asked Dario a while ago about reinstating it and I got a resounding "we'll see." Dario got some bad attention from some individuals in regards to the forums; I think its part-hilarious, part-pathetic but he may still be traumatized by the event. I'll let him decide if he wants to share that interesting saga of his life with you all.

Anyway, Dario's told me that he has a complete archive of all the threads on there, so maybe we'll take a peak through it sometime and see if there's any ideas worth snagging for future products (which there just might be if this many people are interested in this already).


Jackissocool wrote:
I would be interested in this. I was never a big fan of the binder class, but one of my players was. I shot down letting him be one. I have since become more lenient, and would like to reintroduce this into my game. He'll be delighted, and I would love to help you make a better product.

Seeking repentance? I'm your author!


If you're still looking for playtesters, I'd love to pitch in my time! One of my friends was obsessed with the class when it first came out and I'm sure he'd be insanely ecstatic to see what you guys did with the system. I also love the bind-yourself-to-an-outsider-out-of-time flavor going on with the original stuff from the Tome of Magic.


How long does a pact augmentation last? I assume all day, but it's not actually stated. I it is all day, I have concerns about fast healing. While 1 fast healing is not a huge difference in combat, outside of combat it completely obviates the need for healing. This seems very overpowered to me. Other than that, I see no immediate issues with the other augmentations.
Also, you should include a description of how binding checks and binding in general work in the bind spirits class feature. People shouldn't be wondering about that while they read the class. It leads to an immediate disconnect and a bit of confusion.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm thinking an explanation of what a binding check is, the difference between a good pact and a bad one, and so on. Also, it should be stated in the description that binding is a (Su) and does not work in antimagic fields.


Jackissocool wrote:
How long does a pact augmentation last? I assume all day, but it's not actually stated. I it is all day, I have concerns about fast healing. While 1 fast healing is not a huge difference in combat, outside of combat it completely obviates the need for healing. This seems very overpowered to me. Other than that, I see no immediate issues with the other augmentations.

A pact augmentation lasts for 24 hours or until the occultist is no longer bound to any spirits. This will be clarified in the text for the final release.

This is not the first time that people have questioned the wisdom of the fast healing augment, much to the point where I'm just going to flat-out remove it. Expect it to be gone in the final release. :-P

Quote:
Also, you should include a description of how binding checks and binding in general work in the bind spirits class feature. People shouldn't be wondering about that while they read the class. It leads to an immediate disconnect and a bit of confusion.

I'm assuming you're only in Chapter 1. All of that information is in Chapter 3. As for disconnection, its the same setup that spells have in the Core Rulebook (classes upfront with the actual details on how magic works in the middle of the book).

Trust me, its a LOT easier to keep all of that information together in the back. For one, you can do one quick photocopy of a section back to back and have everything you need to know in one place.

Quote:
EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm thinking an explanation of what a binding check is, the difference between a good pact and a bad one, and so on. Also, it should be stated in the description that binding is a (Su) and does not work in antimagic fields.

Again. All of that is in Chapter 3.

Osirion

Alexander Augunas wrote:
This is not the first time that people have questioned the wisdom of the fast healing augment, much to the point where I'm just going to flat-out remove it. Expect it to be gone in the final release. :-P

I don't think it's necessarily bad for binders to have some way of obtaining fast healing, maybe as a spirit's granted ability or as a binder secret that works for a certain number of rounds/minutes per day.

At low levels it's powerful, but realistically, healing out of combat stops being an issue around level 7 or 8 or so. The party eventually reaches a point where wands of Cure Light Wounds or Infernal Healing are so cheap (especially if there's a crafter in the group) that there's no reason to not keep everybody topped off between fights.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
minneyar wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
This is not the first time that people have questioned the wisdom of the fast healing augment, much to the point where I'm just going to flat-out remove it. Expect it to be gone in the final release. :-P

I don't think it's necessarily bad for binders to have some way of obtaining fast healing, maybe as a spirit's granted ability or as a binder secret that works for a certain number of rounds/minutes per day.

At low levels it's powerful, but realistically, healing out of combat stops being an issue around level 7 or 8 or so. The party eventually reaches a point where wands of Cure Light Wounds or Infernal Healing are so cheap (especially if there's a crafter in the group) that there's no reason to not keep everybody topped off between fights.

Well, there's always the various instances where the party has no crafter and can't reach Magi★Mart to buy such a wand. Not every game assumes such things are available every adventure (or, indeed, any adventure).

But I agree, there's nothing wrong with having a fast healing augment if a way can be found to limit it without breaking the "feel" of the pact feature.


I'd like to take a look at this too. I used the original 3.5 book and had a blast with the rules as a player and as a DM. I'd like to take a look at what you have in store.


minneyar wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
This is not the first time that people have questioned the wisdom of the fast healing augment, much to the point where I'm just going to flat-out remove it. Expect it to be gone in the final release. :-P

I don't think it's necessarily bad for binders to have some way of obtaining fast healing, maybe as a spirit's granted ability or as a binder secret that works for a certain number of rounds/minutes per day.

At low levels it's powerful, but realistically, healing out of combat stops being an issue around level 7 or 8 or so. The party eventually reaches a point where wands of Cure Light Wounds or Infernal Healing are so cheap (especially if there's a crafter in the group) that there's no reason to not keep everybody topped off between fights.

Don't worry. Sevnoir (1st level) has a granted ability that is very similar to fast healing. Aside from that, however, nothing resembling fast healing on a spirit is in this book.

That being said, getting rid of this augment makes adding fast healing to another spirit much more likely. (I actually started working on Hollow Eyes for the second book not too long ago; he got adjusted to a 2nd level spirit, but I'll see what I can do for that.)


blahpers wrote:
minneyar wrote:

I don't think it's necessarily bad for binders to have some way of obtaining fast healing, maybe as a spirit's granted ability or as a binder secret that works for a certain number of rounds/minutes per day.

At low levels it's powerful, but realistically, healing out of combat stops being an issue around level 7 or 8 or so. The party eventually reaches a point where wands of Cure Light Wounds or Infernal Healing are so cheap (especially if there's a crafter in the group) that there's no reason to not keep everybody topped off between fights.

Well, there's always the various instances where the party has no crafter and can't reach Magi★Mart to buy such a wand. Not every game assumes such things are available every adventure (or, indeed, any adventure).

But I agree, there's nothing wrong with having a fast healing augment if a way can be found to limit it without breaking the "feel" of the pact feature.

We'll see. I can always add new augments in the second book if I feel they're necessary. The thing about the regenerative augment is that we had many people in the Alpha and Beta builds of the book acting worried about it as well, to the point where a playtester told me that picking fast healing at least once at low levels was such a good option that it felt required. Clearly, it isn't required but when something is powerful, people feel like they're making the wrong choice if they don't take that option. Its sort of the same issue that you see flying around when people talk about the "suboptimal" archetypes in the various Ultimate books.

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