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I have been kicking around the idea for this character for awhile. It is all based around the idea of synergy between the Focused Shot feat and the Myrmidarch archetype for the magus. Heres what I'm thinking.
My group rolls for stats and this guy lucked out: STR-14, DEX-18, CON-12, INT-16(+2 racial, so 18), WIS-13, CHA-8.
Level one - (Fighter 1) point blank shot, precise shot, focused shot. Traits magical knack/reactionary.
Level two- (Fighter 2) rapid shot
Level three- (Magus [Myrmidarch] 1) Arcane Strike
Level four (Magus [Myrmidarch] 2) - pump ability boost into either INT or DEX
Level five- (Magus [Myrmidarch] 3) - Arcane Accuracy magus arcana
Level six- (Magus [Myrmidarch] 4) Weapon focus??? Ranged spellstrike!
Level Seven- (Magus [Myrmidarch] 5) Magus Bonus Feat???
So thats as far as ive gotten with the build. I'd like to give him Manyshot but unfortunately he wont qualify until level 8. Is deadly aim worth considering? Is this a viable build at all? I know this isnt an optimal build per se, but I like the feel of it. Can you guys offer any critiques, suggestions or possible improvements to this concept? I dont want to overhaul the whole build but what can i tweak to get some more out of it? We use CRB, APG, UM and UC. Thanks for looking!
I just wanted to head off anyone who might think i meant that weapon focus could somehow impart a bonus to ranged spellstrike...thats not the case. I was just trying to see if others thought weapon focus was a viable feat choice at that level and similtaneously displaying my repressed glee at being able to smite baddies with projectile-delivered spells.
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I have been kicking around the idea for this character for awhile. It is all based around the idea of synergy between the Focused Shot feat and the Myrmidarch archetype for the magus. Heres what I'm thinking.
My group rolls for stats and this guy lucked out: STR-14, DEX-18, CON-12, INT-16(+2 racial, so 18), WIS-13, CHA-8.
Level one - (Fighter 1) point blank shot, precise shot, focused shot. Traits magical knack/reactionary.
Level two- (Fighter 2) rapid shot
Level three- (Magus [Myrmidarch] 1) Arcane Strike
Level four (Magus [Myrmidarch] 2) - pump ability boost into either INT or DEX
Level five- (Magus [Myrmidarch] 3) - Arcane Accuracy magus arcana
Level six- (Magus [Myrmidarch] 4) Weapon focus??? Ranged spellstrike!
Level Seven- (Magus [Myrmidarch] 5) Magus Bonus Feat???
So thats as far as ive gotten with the build. I'd like to give him Manyshot but unfortunately he wont qualify until level 8. Is deadly aim worth considering? Is this a viable build at all? I know this isnt an optimal build per se, but I like the feel of it. Can you guys offer any critiques, suggestions or possible improvements to this concept? I dont want to overhaul the whole build but what can i tweak to get some more out of it? We use CRB, APG, UM and UC. Thanks for looking!
If you're trying to pump ranged damage (which it looks like you are) then Deadly Aim is definitely a good call. It's almost necessary for a good archer build. Get it as soon as you can.
HOWEVER. I do see one major flaw with this build. Focused Shot requires a Standard action. The Myrmidarch lets you cast a spell as a standard action and then deliver that spell through a ranged attack as a FREE action. See where I'm going with this? You've already used your standard action for the round, so you can't use Focused Shot on that attack. Now, you could cast a spell in the previous round and then deliver it through a single attack the next round, applying both the spellstrike and the Focused Shot, but that would be a huge waste of your action economy. I would steer clear of this build, if I were you.
So in that case Focused Shot=pretty blowy, then. Damn...so what youre saying is i cant spell combat and focused shot in the same turn?
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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So in that case Focused Shot=pretty blowy, then. Damn...so what youre saying is i cant spell combat and focused shot in the same turn?
Actually, as the Myrmidarch is currently written you can't actually spell combat with it at all. A bow is not a light or one-handed melee weapon, and the Myrmidarch does not change the spell combat ability to allow it to work with a bow. What it does instead is lets you cast a spell as a standard action and then deliver it with a SINGLE ranged attack with your bow, (which is what precludes the Focused Shot from the same attack). You can't do a full attack and cast as a Myrmidarch using a bow.
I know this seems counterintuitive, but I think that they meant for the Myrmidarch archetype to be a melee Magus first, but when he's not near the target to also be able to get off a spell. I got this from the Myrmidarch fluff text: "The myrmidarch is a skilled specialist, using magic to supplement and augment his martial mastery. Less inclined to mix the two than a typical magus, the myrmidarch seeks supremacy with blade, bow, and armor." You'll notice the Myrmidarch also gets weapon training with multiple weapon groups like a fighter, not just with bows.
This is the reason I've not made any Myrmidarchs... I just don't think the archetype gives the class enough to be worth it over a standard Magus.
Okay, I'll have to talk to my group about potentially house-ruling Focused Shot for use with this buold but for the sake of argument, lets just remove it from the equation. What are someother ways to pump damage into this build?
Looks great, but you can do the exact same thing without taking any fighter levels. You'd be a feat behind at worst and as your own build shows you're up in the air for the magus bonus feat in return you get more (and better) spells and more point in your arcane pool.
I know multiclassing with the magus isnt optimal, but in order for him to play the way i want him to, i think i need the fighter dip. By going straight myrmidarch i gain 1 arcane pool point but miss out on two feats by level seven.
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So in that case Focused Shot=pretty blowy, then. Damn...so what youre saying is i cant spell combat and focused shot in the same turn?Actually, as the Myrmidarch is currently written you can't actually spell combat with it at all. A bow is not a light or one-handed melee weapon, and the Myrmidarch does not change the spell combat ability to allow it to work with a bow. What it does instead is lets you cast a spell as a standard action and then deliver it with a SINGLE ranged attack with your bow, (which is what precludes the Focused Shot from the same attack). You can't do a full attack and cast as a Myrmidarch using a bow.
I know this seems counterintuitive, but I think that they meant for the Myrmidarch archetype to be a melee Magus first, but when he's not near the target to also be able to get off a spell. I got this from the Myrmidarch fluff text: "The myrmidarch is a skilled specialist, using magic to supplement and augment his martial mastery. Less inclined to mix the two than a typical magus, the myrmidarch seeks supremacy with blade, bow, and armor." You'll notice the Myrmidarch also gets weapon training with multiple weapon groups like a fighter, not just with bows
This is the reason I've not made any Myrmidarchs... I just don't think the archetype gives the class enough to be worth it over a standard Magus.
Well I dont want to get into a debate about the intentions of the developers when they designed the myrmidarch, but i seriously doubt that they would intentionally hamstring a class to that degree. The myrmidarch already suffers from diminished spellcasting and never gets spell recall or improved spell recall, arguably the biggest draw for tje base magus class. To add in that the myrmidarch ALSO misses out on spell combat which ia the major thematic component of the magus, is just too much suck in my opinion. Regardless of what an uber-strict interpretation of the RAW might yield, i am confident that my group will allow the standard magus' version of spell combat.
Well I dont want to get into a debate about the intentions of the developers when they designed the myrmidarch, but i seriously doubt that they would intentionally hamstring a class to that degree. The myrmidarch already suffers from diminished spellcasting and never gets spell recall or improved spell recall, arguably the biggest draw for tje base magus class. To add in that the myrmidarch ALSO misses out on spell combat which ia the major thematic component of the magus, is just too much suck in my opinion. Regardless of what an uber-strict interpretation of the RAW might yield, i am confident that my group will...So in that case Focused Shot=pretty blowy, then. Damn...so what youre saying is i cant spell combat and focused shot in the same turn?Actually, as the Myrmidarch is currently written you can't actually spell combat with it at all. A bow is not a light or one-handed melee weapon, and the Myrmidarch does not change the spell combat ability to allow it to work with a bow. What it does instead is lets you cast a spell as a standard action and then deliver it with a SINGLE ranged attack with your bow, (which is what precludes the Focused Shot from the same attack). You can't do a full attack and cast as a Myrmidarch using a bow.
I know this seems counterintuitive, but I think that they meant for the Myrmidarch archetype to be a melee Magus first, but when he's not near the target to also be able to get off a spell. I got this from the Myrmidarch fluff text: "The myrmidarch is a skilled specialist, using magic to supplement and augment his martial mastery. Less inclined to mix the two than a typical magus, the myrmidarch seeks supremacy with blade, bow, and armor." You'll notice the Myrmidarch also gets weapon training with multiple weapon groups like a fighter, not just with bows
This is the reason I've not made any Myrmidarchs... I just don't think the archetype gives the class enough to be worth it over a standard Magus.
You do get the standard version of spell combat. You simply can't use it with a bow.
Focused Shot is an awful feat. Seriously. It's garbage. Just ramp up toward Manyshot. Archers make their bank through volume of attacks, not trying to turn one attack into a big hit. If you really want to go the one attack route, I suggest the vital strike feats any day over Focused Shot.
Also, Cartmanbeck is correct about the Myrmidarch just not really working. You can't combine spellcasting with a full attack like other Magi do.
If you really wanna ramp toward a magical archer, I'd try a variation on:
Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight
You can fool around with the balance of levels in the build to achieve your desired result (and if you go with more full BAB classes early rather than wizard, then you may want to toss in Arcane Archer to help get to Eldritch Knight).
My favorite version of the build is:
Fighter (Lore Warden) 1/Wizard (Transmuter) 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Arcane Archer 4
This ends with 17 BAB and 9th level spells, which is pretty crazy. This is a little backloaded in terms of when you really come fully online (you start ruinating around 9th level, really).
You can also easily do something like:
Fighter (Weapon Master) 3/Ranger (Guide, Trapper) 2/Wizard 2/Arcane Archer 4/Eldritch Knight 9
That gets you Trapfinding and better archery throughout the build while still ending with 7th level spells and 19 BAB (higher than a Magus ever gets on both accounts). The spellcasting aspect does take a while to really get up and running here, but you're a damn functional regular ol' archer until then. You can eventually have a static damage modifier of +30 per arrow fairly easily, with a likely rate of fire of 7 arrows per round, and that's not including special effects for the bow or its base dice damage.
Seema like its sort of counterintuitive to say the myrmidarch canr spell comabt with a bow when the base class allows it with melee and the myrmidarch is set up for range. This thread:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/howManyHandsToCastASpellOneShouldBeEnough&page=1
Im by no means an expert, but it seems like it's not too much of a stretch to assume the rules allow for a myrmidarch to do what, in one man's opinion at least, it was designed to do.
You do get the standard version of spell combat. You simply can't use it with a bow.
Exactly. The exact quote of the Myrmidon's Fluff:
Less inclined to mix the two [magic and combat, i.e. spell combat] than a typical magus, the myrmidarch seeks supremacy with blade, bow, and armor.
Is entirely consistent with what Blahpers is saying. You still can mix (spellcombat), but you are also into using bows, as well as 'supremacy' with blades and bows (weapon training). Maybe it's not your cup of tea, but that's what it is.
To clarify, you aren't necessarily 'wasting actions' by casting a spell one round and delivering it via weapon the next, it's just not as 1-round-nova enabling as people might want a Magus to be. The Archetype also needs to be looked at in context of what it's abilities allow: Weapon Training means Dueling Gloves work A-OK, which over-all means the Myrmidons' attacks are less reliant on actual spells to be effective, perhaps letting you reserve them for other usages.
Seema like its sort of counterintuitive to say the myrmidarch canr spell comabt with a bow when the base class allows it with melee and the myrmidarch is set up for range. This thread:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/howManyHandsToCastASpellOneShouldBeEnough&page=1
Im by no means an expert, but it seems like it's not too much of a stretch to assume the rules allow for a myrmidarch to do what, in one man's opinion at least, it was designed to do.
Hey man, play whatever is fun. If your group wants to houserule the Myrmidarch and no one has an issue with it, then go buck wild.
That said, when you're dominating with stupid-good archery novas at higher levels, if everyone else is playing middle of the road, un-houseruled builds, you may end up being looked upon as a little munchkin-y.
If you houserule spell combat as allowable with Bows, you're going to end up with a free attack at your highest BAB that is also loaded with a damaging spell. That'll lead to 5 arrows at full BAB (granted, with a -3 penalty total accounting for haste, rapid shot, and spell combat), one of which will be loaded with a spell. Add in Weapon Training, Gloves of Dueling, buffs, etc....well, you see why you may end up getting some funny glances at how the houserule you asked for now allows you to do all of that.
It's not game-breaking, but its a BIG difference in power, which is where you may catch some flak since you're asking people to allow you to ignore the rules for your character. If your character then outshines everyone else, it's going to make you look sketchy.
The myrmidarch works just fine in actual play (from 1st-hand experience, not theorycrafting) as an armored, ranged damage-dealer who has some spell capacity used mostly for selective burst damage and ranged debuffs. It still has the regular magus' spellstrike and spell combat in addition to its ranged spellstrike, but uses the first only in emergencies and the second mainly for concentration check buffs when cornered.
Instead of thinking of the myrmidarch as an underpowered magus who loses his primary abilities, you should look at the archetype as an archery-based fighter who trades some of his feats for a limited number of damage and debuff spells anchored to his ranged attacks, a few defensive spells, and the ability to custom-enchant his weapon each day.
Myrmidarch is not a strict ranged archetype. As best as I can gather, it's intended to be a more martial version of the magus. Note that ranged spellstrike is the only ability in the myrmidarch archetype text that specifically mentions ranged fighting as opposed to fighting in general. It's a more "fightery" fighter/mage.
Arcane archer may be a better fit for you if you really want to pump archery and spells. You could even run myrmidarch or bard up to it, or you could run fighter with a little bit of wizard or sorcerer (woo, bloodline dip).
As for focused shot: I prefer clustered shots, especially once you really start adding up those attacks.
Sylvanite,
Thanks for the advice on the build. This thread has turned into a debate about rules, which is what I was hoping to avoid. I'm just as much to blame as anyone, though...hopefully it's not too late to save the thread!
So, throwing Focused Shot and Spell Combat out the window, is there any viability to using the myrmidarch's arcane pool utility with say, a rod of quicken to buff (I was thinking enlarge person/gravity bow as a start). Unless my math is off, that would be 3d6 base damage per arrow + 1d6 damage from the arcane pool augmentation of flame/frost/shock + whatever damage I get from spellstrike on the first arrow. That seems like competitive damage to me, but I've never been in a campaign that went past level 8, so I am about as far from being authoritative on this as it gets.
If it isn't viable, is arcane archer or eldritch knight the better way to go? I've always heard that Arcane Archer is pretty weaksauce, no? It's beginning to sound like the Myrmidarch might be even weaker sauce, so what do I have to lose, right? Eldritch Knight has always been intriguing for me, but it just kind of sucks that you have to wait until you have like 65,000 experience (level 7 the way my group runs XP) before the dude plays the way you want him to.
I'd like to see the other side of the coin.
Weapon Training+ Gloves is essentially +5 to attack and damage for every attack the myrmadarch makes over a Standard Magus. That's gotta be worth alot.
Or is the drop in spell casting really sucktastic?
I've done 0 math but on the face of it a Myrmidarch's full attack w/spell combat should be alot more damaging than a normal magus.
I'd like to see the other side of the coin.
Weapon Training+ Gloves is essentially +5 to attack and damage for every attack the myrmadarch makes over a Standard Magus. That's gotta be worth alot.
Or is the drop in spell casting really sucktastic?I've done 0 math but on the face of it a Myrmidarch's full attack w/spell combat should be alot more damaging than a normal magus.
Myrmidarch Archetype Wrote:
DIMINISHED SPELLCASTING
Myrmidarchs cast one fewer spell of each level than normal. If this reduces the number to 0, he may cast spells of that level only if his Intelligence allows bonus spells of that level.
So, that seems pretty sucktastic-ish to me. Weapon training is money but...the way it's worded it forces you to take it with "an additional weapon group" every six levels. So you'd only end up with a +3 to your bow from Weapon training with Gloves of Dueling.
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Meh the only thing I've really considered the Myrmidarch for is:
Half elf (ancestral weaponry(firearms)) Myrmidarch 4/vivisectionist 3/AT 10/EK 3
Unless you carry a quiver of large sized arrows, throw it on the ground, cast enlarge, then pick the quiver up again you won't benefit on ranged attacks from enlarge person. I think somewhere in the description of the spell it actually states that anything fired or thrown while you are enlarged shrinks to its normal size when it leaves your hands. So even when enlarged, you're arrows will just do 2d6 (counting Gravity Bow as cast). Think of Admiral Ackbar when using a ranged character and pondering Enlarge Person...It's a trap!
Buffing up your arrows with elemental enchants is really good until higher levels, when many things have many different resistances. Also, Rods of Quicken are amazing, but prohibitively expensive. I'd probably shy away from them (there's also the "what hand are you using?" issue when it comes to using a rod and taking a full attack with a bow in the same round).
Myrmidarch is fine, as others have mentioned, but if you want to be a magical archer specifically, I strongly encourage you to check out the builds I posted back up the thread.
As for Arcane Archer vs. Eldritch Archer...people feel differently. There are people here who would argue that Arcane Archer is better, but I think they are flat out wrong :P For me, Arcane Archer 4 is the cutoff in terms of how far I would take the class. After that, you start losing more caster levels for abilities that just aren't that great (in my opinion, of course). If you look at the builds I posted above, you see that AA is used to either finish off after taking all 10 levels of Eldritch Knight, OR to help get to 3rd level spells if you play a more martial build at first. Eldritch Knight is where it's really at in those builds, though.
Hybrid builds do tend to be late starters. I will absolutely admit that. As such, I'd check how far the campaign is going to go right off the bat. If people are really dedicated and convinced that they're gonna take it to higher levels, then it'll be worth it to play your hybrid. If you don't see it happening, then I'd avoid the more hybrid builds.
All that said, you can always play the more archery build at low levels, then only start going into magic around 6 and after. This will make it so your character is effective as an archer from the start, and IF the game starts getting to higher levels, you'll get the chance to add in some good casting.
That build was something like:
Ranger (Trapper, Guide) 2/Fighter (Weapon Master) 3/Wizard (Transmuter) 2/Arcane Archer 4/Eldritch Knight 9
So, it sounds like fighter with a sprinkling of ranger into an arcane class to meet the minimum requirements for arcane archer is a really solid build. Does anyone else have another idea for a glass cannon type character. I really just want the character to be based around archery and have some ability to self buff. Are there other ways to go about this besides the ones discussed above?
You can make a better archery-based gish going pure myrmidarch than trying a multiclass arcane archer thing. I completed a subguide to the myrmidarch that would explain my point but haven't linked it yet because I'm not satisfied with it. If I figure out how to make it less of a jumbled mess, it's getting linked into Walter's Magus guide thread.
In a nutshell, you're more effective at more levels than the slow-entry AA hybrid. A pure myrmidarch picks up:
- Weapon training, which is amazing. You can afford gloves of dueling by level 7-8, which immediately provide you an additional +2/+2 to this ability.
- Armor training, which is almost as amazing. You can now wear med-heavy armor without losing speed and with more max Dex bonus to AC.
- Pseudo-fighter levels to meet feat prerequisites, and at a faster rate than a standard magus. This isn't that great a benefit, but when you consider that at 15th level you qualify for Penetrating Strike and at 17th level you qualify for Critical Mastery it starts to look nicer.
- More balanced spellcasting across most of its career, until higher levels when a comparison AA gish overtakes it in casting power.
- Ranged spellstrike, which outdoes imbue arrow for the purposes that most gish archers want their spells to augment their ranged attacks. It also doesn't require the Weapon Focus feat tax of the AA PrC.
EDIT: You can make a better-optimized archer in general by going other routes, but if you really want to play an arcane gish-type character that focuses on archery I recommend the otherwise-subpar myrmidarch.
Wroy, thanks for the encouragment. Whenever you get your sub-guide put up post a link here if you remember as I'd definitely be interested in checking it out. I am 100% sold on a 'gish' type character and for me its all about DPR. Plus, I think its just a cool concept. Do you have any specific suggestions on how to make a myrmidarch focused on archery as strong as possible?
This is it currently in case it helps you at all:
Suboptimizing the Suboptimal: A (sub)Guide to the Myrmidarch
It's kind of a mess. There's plenty of editing and changes that it needs, but between real life and freelance projects it's not going to get finished any time soon.
2-8 the Myrmidarch is definitely easier to play than the full-hybrid gish archer. At about 9-11th level the Gish archer starts to take over. (And at first level it's equal.)
Partly, this depends on the play-style of the game, too. In a game where you generally know combats are coming up, the Gish archer is way more powerful. In games where you are frequently surprised at when combat happens, then a buff-reliant character is less powerful.
The real difference is in how versatile you want to be. The Magus spell list is just nowhere near as good as the Wizard one. The Myrmidarch loses spells per day, to the tune of having 2 less spells per level than a specialist wizard with equal intelligence. And once you hit 9th and on a Myrmidarch falls behind on both BAB and Spells.
All that said, with weapon training and the occasional Arcane Accuracy, you'll certainly do ok for yourself as a Myrmidarch archer. You lose out on spells like heroism and greater heroism, gravity bow, see invisibility, and countless utility spells...but as an archer you're pretty solid.
Any viability in a build that looks something like: Myrmidarch 4/Fighter(weapon master) 3/AA 4/EK x? It seems like a decent compromise between power early and later in the build...well as much as this archetype can muster anyway. My concern is that the AA levels wont do much except give me some pseudo-cool abilities that dont necessarily stack with the myrmidarch goodies (ie imbue arrow). Also progressing the already watered down myrmidarch spell list at 75% seems pretty bad. Thoughts?
The problem you're going to run into, Dud Muffin, is that you're still advancing the Myrmidarch's already poor casting. However, by taking fighter, AA, and EK, you're making his casting even worse (at least 5 lost caster levels there in addition to a slow developing base casting progression AND an archetype that reduces spells per day).
You could go Myrmidarch 10/EK 10 if you really wanted to up your BAB by 2 in the long run...but you lose out on so many little goodies from Magus by doing so.
The options really boil down to:
Ranger 2/Fighter 3/Wizard 2/AA 4/EK 9
Magus 20
Fighter 1/Wizard 5/EK 10/AA 4
Ranger 6/Wizard 2/AA 4/EK 8 (just for Improved Precise Shot way early)
Some kind of Zen Archer/Empyreal Sorcerer/Arcane Archer hybrid is doable too, but I don't have a build at the moment
All of the above builds excel at different level ranges, some are more even keeled throughout, some are more damage oriented, some are more castery, some can be the group trapfinder/disabler, etc. It's really up to you to explore the options (as you've been doing here) and deciding what fits your style/character concept/game you'll be playing in.
Edit: Of COURSE, there are other builds than the ones above, but they fall around those general guidelines, with just some things moved around and the like. I've even heard people say Bard (Arcane Duelist) characters can be good archers, but I've never really looked into it.
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i would say if you wanted to max the magus as a ranged character, i would choose to have UMD as my main skill, and go 8magus/2 arcane archer/then the rest magus.
you get +1 generic, and the ability to toss an aoe spell, magus list only, into your bow. take the magus arcana that lets you add a wizard spell, which should be antimagic field, and you have a pretty badass ranger.
shocking grasp/ chilltouch will net some pretty big dpr increases. chill touch when a full attack astion, and shocking grasp for when you need to move. i mean take magical lineage( or knack i cant remember which one) to reduce your metamagic total by 1 then add intensified spell to a shocking grasp or chill touch, and you have a big increase in over all damage.
a ranger or fighter EK/AA will be better past 6 but you can do nutz damage from 1-10
I would avoid multiclassing a magus into AA. That was the concept that initially got me interested in the myrmidarch, and it just fails across the board.
- You lose out on heavy armor proficiency, normal movement speed in heavy armor, a +1 bonus to your armor's max Dex bonus, +2 atk/dmg from weapon training, DR 5/- from armor mastery, and some spell progression.
- With diminished spellcasting you have limited spells. Each one that you tie up with an AoE spell is one less for your ranged spellstrike or defensive spells. You're better off just being a pure myrmidarch, prepping the needed AoE spell, and casting it out to its normal range. Imbue Arrow is only useful to lob area spells with poor range at great distances.
Thanks everyone. This was kind of what i was afraid of, but i guess i didnt realize just HOW busted the myrmidarch is. I think i might make both builds (one based on the magus archetype and another based on a hybrid into AA/EK) and see which is more fun to play. I really like the zen archer/empyreal sorcerer...though that uber slow BAB progression will suck. But, our group has a pretty interesting campaign and its really expansive and flexible, so a few extra characters would be welcome....especially ranged combatants, which we sorely lack. Anyways thanks again for the advice and hopefully i dont crap the bed on these builds.
Thanks everyone. This was kind of what i was afraid of, but i guess i didnt realize just HOW busted the myrmidarch is. I think i might make both builds (one based on the magus archetype and another based on a hybrid into AA/EK) and see which is more fun to play. I really like the zen archer/empyreal sorcerer...though that uber slow BAB progression will suck. But, our group has a pretty interesting campaign and its really expansive and flexible, so a few extra characters would be welcome....especially ranged combatants, which we sorely lack. Anyways thanks again for the advice and hopefully i dont crap the bed on these builds.
Well we're always here if ya need anything. Feel free to toss out any questions on feats or progressions or equipment. Have fun!
This is it currently in case it helps you at all:
Suboptimizing the Suboptimal: A (sub)Guide to the Myrmidarch
Nice guide!
Interesting to see how people have gotten on with this archtype, especially how it goes with the Elven Magus Spellsinger.
I still think there is potential to make a decent switch hitter with this.
I see a Chakram focused magus wearing a blink back belt. 1d8 weapon, 19/20threat, 30ft range.
By wearing a cestus you negate the damage to your hand for using it in melee.
Weapon training+ Duelist Gloves works well.
This guy uses the Chakram at low levels to throw and stay out of melee, with 30 ft range. I think given the low spells per day FROSTBITE is the key spell since a magical lineage (reach) frostbite gives multiple attacks, no save, lasts for multiple attacks and scaling damage.
Still working it out but looks workable to me. Enforcer feat may work with it as well.
Frostbite >Shocking Grasp?
Hmm hadn't thought about that one.
SG is better on a standard magus for awhile.
Myrmadarch has too few spells.
Frosbite is basically smite.
You add your level in (non lethal) damage and you get a number of touches equal to your level so at level 4 a single cast could last a whole combat.
The entanglement is gravy.
Take both magical lineage and Wayang as your traits and rock a reach, rime Frostbite all combat long! Use it for throwing or melee.
Plus fighting with a sharpend metal hoop would look cool.
While you only have 1 iterative there is no reason to melee at all.
Buy multiple ones (they are cheap) at low level.
Upgrade to returning asap and use arcane pool for the rest.
Well yeah this is going on an Elven myrmy with a Longbow, but I really see your point here!
It's brutal as a damage spell, but you can spread it about a little too and maybe debuff multiple targets.
The best (and only) myrmidarch build I've seen was a gunslinger/myrmidarch. I am unsure of the exact build but i do know he focused on one big hit. This was a pfs character and before retirement (level 11) he was routinely breaking 150 damage, and delivered the biggest hit I've ever seen in pfs of 254.
in the harrower book that came out recently is a card caster.
While it's originally meant for primarily using throwing cards, I think it actually allows you to spell strike with any ranged weapon.
Harrowed Spellstrike (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a card caster can invest a single thrown weapon with a single touch or ranged spell as part of the spell’s normal casting time. The spell must target a single creature, and the spell’s range changes to match the thrown weapon’s range increment. This ability otherwise functions identically to spellstrike, except it can only be applied to thrown ranged weapons instead of melee attacks. This ability replaces and modifies spellstrike.
The Card Caster archetype from The Harrow Handbook is limited to Spell Striking with thrown weapons only.
The question I have is, does the "invest a single thrown weapon with a single touch or ranged spell" part prevent it from doing attacks/rays per level spells such as Frostbite or Scorching Ray if the weapon isn't recovered?
Also, if you have Close Quarter's Thrower, could you use a melee weapon with a natural throw range like a Trident or a Starknife enchanted with Returning or Calling to Spell Combat in melee and then chuck it for the "ranged" Spell Strike?
I'd want to pump that INT as much as possible for extra spells/day.
Can't see you using arcane strike all that much when you could be using arcane accuracy which is just awesome for your 3/4 bab.