What are some of the best puzzles you have made as a GM to challenge players?
Here's one I did:
You have a three heavy solid iron doors ahead of you. One is round, one is triangular, and one is pentagon-shaped. The area is under a permanent anti-magic field. In front of the doors is a large statue holding out open hands with the palms up as if holding something. The left hand is above the right. Nearby is a bucket full lead balls. How do you get continue?
Answer: The fraction approximation of pi is 22/7. Place 22 balls in the higher hand and 7 balls in the lower. This opens the round door and lets you continue into the rest of the dungeon. Any other combination opens one of the other doors at random and releases monsters from dead-end passageways.
(I allow stumped players to make intelligence checks for hints.)
What are some of the best puzzles you have made as a GM to challenge players?
Here's one I did:
You have a three heavy solid iron doors ahead of you. One is round, one is triangular, and one is pentagon-shaped. The area is under a permanent anti-magic field. In front of the doors is a large statue holding out open hands with the palms up as if holding something. The left hand is above the right. Nearby is a bucket full lead balls. How do you get continue?
Answer: The fraction approximation of pi is 22/7. Place 22 balls in the higher hand and 7 balls in the lower. This opens the round door and lets you continue into the rest of the dungeon. Any other combination opens one of the other doors at random and releases monsters from dead-end passageways.
(I allow stumped players to make intelligence checks for hints.)
maybe I missed something here... but what "fraction" are you talking bout??
maybe I missed something here... but what "fraction" are you talking bout??What are some of the best puzzles you have made as a GM to challenge players?
Here's one I did:
You have a three heavy solid iron doors ahead of you. One is round, one is triangular, and one is pentagon-shaped. The area is under a permanent anti-magic field. In front of the doors is a large statue holding out open hands with the palms up as if holding something. The left hand is above the right. Nearby is a bucket full lead balls. How do you get continue?
Answer: The fraction approximation of pi is 22/7. Place 22 balls in the higher hand and 7 balls in the lower. This opens the round door and lets you continue into the rest of the dungeon. Any other combination opens one of the other doors at random and releases monsters from dead-end passageways.
(I allow stumped players to make intelligence checks for hints.)
If you express 3.14 as a fraction, it would be written "22/7".
If you express 3.14 as a fraction, it would be written "22/7".maybe I missed something here... but what "fraction" are you talking bout??What are some of the best puzzles you have made as a GM to challenge players?
Here's one I did:
You have a three heavy solid iron doors ahead of you. One is round, one is triangular, and one is pentagon-shaped. The area is under a permanent anti-magic field. In front of the doors is a large statue holding out open hands with the palms up as if holding something. The left hand is above the right. Nearby is a bucket full lead balls. How do you get continue?
Answer: The fraction approximation of pi is 22/7. Place 22 balls in the higher hand and 7 balls in the lower. This opens the round door and lets you continue into the rest of the dungeon. Any other combination opens one of the other doors at random and releases monsters from dead-end passageways.
(I allow stumped players to make intelligence checks for hints.)
ya but in the set up to the room.. i don't understand that reference to a statue and 3 doors, unless its like the "how many sides of the door" or something.
...How are the players supposed to know to involve pi again? I hope it isn't by the number of sides on the door, because you have a 3, a 1 (sort of), and a 5.
Meh, due to the way attribute bonuses are, the DC can't be more than 12 or 13 if the GM is fair.
My alchemist takes 10 and gets 15, more than enough to solve it.
Uhmm...I got super excited at the thread title but now...dotted?
ya but in the set up to the room.. i don't understand that reference to a statue and 3 doors, unless its like the "how many sides of the door" or something.
You need to find a way to express the door you want to go through as a fraction using lead balls in the upper half and lead balls in the lower. There is no way to do that with the Triangle or Pentagon doors. The circle you can use pi, the ration of a circumference of a circle to the diameter.
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What about this?
In a dungeon, written on a the floor of a passage is the following text
You should hand the players a NOTE with this text written down:
"Behind the wicked stairs a door to untold riches lead
The other one is only there to confuse and mislead"
The passage opens up into a rectangular room. Near one end of this room is a spiral staircase coated in slippery slime that drips from the floor above. Anyone trying to ascend will have to roll climb or something not to fall. At the top is a small room with nothing in it except more slime.
On the wall just behind the spiral stairs is a door. The door leads into a maze of portals that warp back on themselves. Trying to solve the maze is a waste of time. There is nothing there. You might want to make it obvious that this is a dead end if they're too persistent.
On the other side of the room is a huge wall mosaic depicting dozens of faces. Anyone looking at these faces will be confused as per the confuse spell as long as they keep looking in that direction. The mosaic radiates an aura of evil. Pathfinder officially has no "facing" rules, but it's fine for roleplaying... Hehehe :P
I think at this point the players might read the text aloud and realize that STAIRS and STARES are awfully similar, and indeed the STARES are wicked. Someone, hopefully a fighter or barbarian, suggests that a degree of force applied to this mosaic will advance their cause... When the mosaic is destroyed, the wall behind crumbles revealing a door that leads further into the dungeon, and hopefully to untold riches!
That one seems decent enough, Ganryu. I'd change the details on how the players receive the hint. I'd make it an audible message, via Magic Mouth or something similar. Then you speak the hint slowly to them. Let THEM make the assumption it's "stairs" and not "stares".
You need to find a way to express the door you want to go through as a fraction using lead balls in the upper half and lead balls in the lower. There is no way to do that with the Triangle or Pentagon doors. The circle you can use pi, the ration of a circumference of a circle to the diameter.
ya but in the set up to the room.. i don't understand that reference to a statue and 3 doors, unless its like the "how many sides of the door" or something.
...
The fact that one of the doors is a circle really isn't much of a clue that they need to not only use pi, but use a fraction that isn't even equal to pi. Sorry, I can't say that I'd be much for that puzzle any more than Gollum was much for Bilbo's "what have I got in my pocket?".
In general, a good puzzle is one that is anywhere from moderately to maddeningly difficult but seems elementary once you know the answer. The answer produces a feeling of "rightness". . . . I can't think of the word. Like everything is as it should be. This one, after knowing the solution and especially the reasoning behind it, just leaves me furrowing my brow, wondering if I've missed something about it.
But puzzles are great if they work in the setting. Keep doing them when appropriate, but make sure that there are sufficient (though not necessarily obvious in prospect) clues to solve the puzzle.
What about this?
In a dungeon, written on a the floor of a passage is the following text
You should hand the players a NOTE with this text written down:
"Behind the wicked stairs a door to untold riches lead
The other one is only there to confuse and mislead"The passage opens up into a rectangular room. Near one end of this room is a spiral staircase coated in slippery slime that drips from the floor above. Anyone trying to ascend will have to roll climb or something not to fall. At the top is a small room with nothing in it except more slime.
On the wall just behind the spiral stairs is a door. The door leads into a maze of portals that warp back on themselves. Trying to solve the maze is a waste of time. There is nothing there. You might want to make it obvious that this is a dead end if they're too persistent.
On the other side of the room is a huge wall mosaic depicting dozens of faces. Anyone looking at these faces will be confused as per the confuse spell as long as they keep looking in that direction. The mosaic radiates an aura of evil. Pathfinder officially has no "facing" rules, but it's fine for roleplaying... Hehehe :P
I think at this point the players might read the text aloud and realize that STAIRS and STARES are awfully similar, and indeed the STARES are wicked. Someone, hopefully a fighter or barbarian, suggests that a degree of force applied to this mosaic will advance their cause... When the mosaic is destroyed, the wall behind crumbles revealing a door that leads further into the dungeon, and hopefully to untold riches!
Now that is a classic-feeling puzzle. Especially if they solve it. : D
What are some of the best puzzles you have made as a GM to challenge players?
Here's one I did:
You have a three heavy solid iron doors ahead of you. One is round, one is triangular, and one is pentagon-shaped. The area is under a permanent anti-magic field. In front of the doors is a large statue holding out open hands with the palms up as if holding something. The left hand is above the right. Nearby is a bucket full lead balls. How do you get continue?
Answer: The fraction approximation of pi is 22/7. Place 22 balls in the higher hand and 7 balls in the lower. This opens the round door and lets you continue into the rest of the dungeon. Any other combination opens one of the other doors at random and releases monsters from dead-end passageways.
(I allow stumped players to make intelligence checks for hints.)
I agree that this puzzle seems incomplete. There should be something to imply (even if that implicative thing is very well hidden) the use of the fraction 22/7, but nothing suggests it. The only suggestion I see here is that the answer is something to do with geometry, which is very vague. You're right, in any regard, to allow the intelligence checks.
But I like the puzzle idea, it just becomes a question of what good but oblique hint is best to give in the puzzle to make it "complete".
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I've actually been looking into puzzles and riddles to sprinkle throughout my game. Nothing that will be completely necessary to complete the ultimate goal, but something that will provide an advantage if solved and a disadvantage if failed.
Of the top of my head, something like:
As the party walks in the door an audible *click* is heard and strange writing on the wall opposite the door. First everyone does a check to see if they can read whatever language it is, then, if they can, they will see a riddle... like, "It's greater than gods, more evil that the devil (gotta fix that for the game), rich people want it, poor people have it, and if you eat it you will die."
If they answer the riddle correctly within a certain amount of time they get some benefit like a reduction in the enemies or an element introduced (a piece of EQ perhaps) that will aid them in vanquishing their foes in that encounter.
I don't know, I'm just spit-balling here. Something can be difficult... but the more difficult it is the more tangential the effects of success or failure should be, imo.
(The answer is "nothing" btw)
Also, if there are any old compendiums with this kind of stuff from AD&D or back in the day, I would think they'd still translate fine to PF. If anyone knows any a heads up would be awesome.
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I found some quite some time ago to use when I was doing 2nd AD&D. One that I can remember off the top of my head involved the characters finding themselves in a room with three doors. On the other side of the doors were hallways that each led to the same destination. One hallway had a monster, the next had a trap, and the third was an ordinary empty hallway. The players then had to choose one door. If they chose the trap hallway, the door with the monster would also open. If they chose the monster, the door with the trap would also open. If they chose the empty hallway the trap or monster would also open, chosen randomly. The players then had to choose which open door to go through.
Or something like that.
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A convoluted double riddle:
The PC's are going through a Fey dungeon when they find a scroll which says "To turn her flesh to stone requires the caress of the Tusker's Bone"
A couple rooms later the party finds several skeletons scattered on the outskirts of an armory. Crossing the threshold the floating bust of a man with it's eyes closed calls out "Arm yourselves with that which does not lie, and always looks you in the eye." The armory is lined with dozens of pieces of cold iron equipment; weapons, shields, even the floating bust. Incidentally the head comments on everything they inspect "hmm, nice choice. Good weight on that one. Sturdy piece m'lord."
Now, if the party really searches (DC 15) they notice one of the skeletons has something clutched in its arms, wrapped in oilcloth. Unwrapped the item is revealed to be a hand mirror made of polished glass and ivory.
In the final room is a hag with DR 5/Magic. Everything to this point has had DR 5/Cold Iron, so the weapons in the armory were a good find right? Except this hag has a unique power and weakness: cold iron actually heals the crone while ivory turns her to stone. So the party needs to either 1) beat her down with their normal or magic weapons, 2) find out the hard way that cold iron doesn't work, or 3) give her the mirror if they have it. She'll also demonstrate that she's incredibly vain as an extra hint.
{---clipped---}
Answer: The fraction approximation of pi is 22/7. Place 22 balls in the higher hand and 7 balls in the lower. This opens the round door and lets you continue into the rest of the dungeon. Any other combination opens one of the other doors at random and releases monsters from dead-end passageways.
(I allow stumped players to make intelligence checks for hints.)
I agree that this puzzle seems incomplete. There should be something to imply (even if that implicative thing is very well hidden) the use of the fraction 22/7, but nothing suggests it. The only suggestion I see here is that the answer is something to do with geometry, which is very vague. You're right, in any regard, to allow the intelligence checks.
But I like the puzzle idea, it just becomes a question of what good but oblique hint is best to give in the puzzle to make it "complete".
You might be able to hint at it without being too direct by adding a great deal of circle themed visuals around the room (have the pedestal that the statue is standing upon be circular, and etched into the stone floor around it are a series of concentric rings, or a 'spirogyral' glyph. Make circles thematically ubiquitous, without have a pie slice painted on the wall in blood.
You might be able to hint at it without being too direct by adding a great deal of circle themed visuals around the room (have the pedestal that the statue is standing upon be circular, and etched into the stone floor around it are a series of concentric rings, or a 'spirogyral' glyph. Make circles thematically ubiquitous, without have a pie slice painted on the wall in blood.
I'm thinking you need something to imply "fraction". You know? The whole thing revolves around coming up with a fraction, so that's what the hint has to point at. In the form of a riddle or with clues like you're doing here.
Your suggestion is a good one, in that it tells the person which door is the right one, if they figure out the hint. I just think we need to also consider the other part of it.
You might be able to hint at it without being too direct by adding a great deal of circle themed visuals around the room (have the pedestal that the statue is standing upon be circular, and etched into the stone floor around it are a series of concentric rings, or a 'spirogyral' glyph. Make circles thematically ubiquitous, without have a pie slice painted on the wall in blood.I'm thinking you need something to imply "fraction". You know? The whole thing revolves around coming up with a fraction, so that's what the hint has to point at. In the form of a riddle or with clues like you're doing here.
Your suggestion is a good one, in that it tells the person which door is the right one, if they figure out the hint. I just think we need to also consider the other part of it.
Maybe 'numerator' and 'denominator' written on each hand, in a language that the party is unlikely to read?
Statue is a Half-elf... images on the doors are of a half-orc, half-dragon, half-fiend?
ROFL - that's pretty good.
Of course, all the halfs might throw them off on the wrong trail. But the idea is funny.
To the original poster
While 22/7 is a simplification of Pi, I would never use it as a fraction in a riddle. Additionally if you want to make shapes a clue use a triangle, circle, square (3.14).
You also said you can't express 3 or 5 as a fraction? 6/2 10/2. There - fractions representing the numbers.
Your suggested puzzle is terrible and confusing, as a player I'd hate it.
To the original poster
While 22/7 is a simplification of Pi, I would never use it as a fraction in a riddle. Additionally if you want to make shapes a clue use a triangle, circle, square (3.14).You also said you can't express 3 or 5 as a fraction? 6/2 10/2. There - fractions representing the numbers.
Your suggested puzzle is terrible and confusing, as a player I'd hate it.
Holy smokes, Hawk. That 3.14 idea is great. Everything else is just rude trash.
With that idea and MC Templar's, you could turn that puzzle into a pretty decent one. Doors in the order you suggest. Paintings on the wall in the shape of creatures such as the centaur, minotaur, and manticore. Anything that can represent the idea of a fraction. Have the paintings all placed inside round beveled framing in the stone.
I think that hints at it all rather nicely without giving anything away. I think it would still be difficult for someone who didn't already know the answer. Fun and fiendish - the way all puzzles should be. But I don't know for sure, since I do know the answer and I'm guessing at what a new viewer would see.
I have a few more thoughts on this - more tommorow when I'm more awake and can think properly.
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A friend told me a logic puzzle a long time ago, don't know where it originated, but it translates pretty well to D&D.
You stand in a room with 3 switches on the wall, and a voice gives you the following instructions: Each of these three switches will ignite or douse a fire (in the puzzle it's light bulbs) in another room that you cannot now see or access. Up is "light", down is "douse." Once you are satisfied with your arrangement, you may proceed to the other room where you must identify which switch lit which fire.
An idea I had once was to present the party with a door that opens onto a series of winding corridors, eventually leading to a large room with a checker-patterned floor. Each tile is surrounded by invisible portals that teleport you to another space on the "game board," and not necessarily facing the direction you had been previously. Also, once on the board, you cannot see the space beyond its edges. On some tiles there are monsters or traps. In order to escape, you must take the correct route across the board.
With my experience in mathematics 22/7 isn't really ever used as a substitution for pi. The original puzzle is too obtuse, and even with the answer doesn't make much sense.
One approximation involving pi that does get used is the number of seconds in a year is approximately pi * 10^7. And that is mostly a mnemonic, but good to 3 significant figures.
One of the important point of pi is that it can't be accurately represented by a fraction. After all, 355/113 is a much better approximation (and there are further approximations after that).
If you want to suggest a specific fractional approximation of pi, draw a half circle with a line across the bottom. Write 22 on the circle part, and then have a shallow bowl attached to the line. Of course, they might just get the answer to that one by guesswork, and it'd still take someone with some interest in math to get the hint.
Edit: You could even write 33 on the circle. Then they need to put 10 and a half weights in the bowl. Not likely they'd get that by guesswork.
I think this is getting rather silly, now. 22/7 is a well-known substitution for pi, even if it's a poor or seldom-used substitution. So, it's a perfectly fine object for riddling and puzzling.
It's just a matter of getting people to think in that direction--giving them enough of a hint. I think the notion of breaking weights in half or forcing them to create multiples of this fraction to achieve the answer just puts it out of the reach of being determinable.
Ok, enough with the pi thing folks. The only good pie has tons of sugar and is a bit flaky...
Anyway, how about, I don't know, more puzzles?
Does anyone have a good way to use the block puzzles that are so popular now with the young people's video games?
Also here's one that I did years ago: I have these hirst arts molds that make columns so I made one with 3 sectons and put them on a spindle so that the middle section would spin. I then made this convoluted gas trap in a chamber with murals depicing 3 knights, 7 swords and a throne. Finally as they entered they noticed a lectern with a book open to a passage stating "To the rising sun we praise they who delivered us; at midday we praise the tools of their righteousness; at dusk let them rest in peace."
One column to the extreme east of the room had to turn 3 times; the central column 7 times; to the extreme west once.
I thought it was ridiculously easy. My wife the brawny fighter and my buddy playing a rogue were trapped in the room w/the trap - after 2 rounds of poison gas their elegant solution was merely to roll a 19 on a ridiculous strength check, pry the stone slab of a door open, and air out the chamber until all together the party broke the slab.
My wife was a little miffed when I told her the answer and I spent that night on the couch.
One facet I haven't seen anybody post about is this: Would D&D characters know pi, fractions of pi, or uses of pi? If the answer to even one of those is no, then that wouldn't be a good riddle.
Which brings an interesting question to mind: Should there be a distinction between what your players know and what your characters know when solving in-game riddles? Say you had a party with no divine casters or anyone that knew anything about religion, but gave them a riddle that would be obvious to anyone who knows much about the D&D pantheon? Even if the players knew the answer, would you let their characters?
In my experience, you usually have to shoot lower than you think for riddles, especially if you're combining a bunch of challenges into a single riddle (such as "figure out what the riddle is, figure out the answer, figure out the input modality"). Even if I were to use a riddle that required what's essentially an unguessable bit of math trivia, wrapping it in additional layers of obscurity seems to me like the kind of thing players will just never get without substantial hints.
I know it's lame and simple, but I like scrambled word puzzles. They're quick to make, require no specific real-world knowledge, can be worked as a group, and can deliver short messages fairly well. They're also typically solvable in a predictable-ish span of time, meaning that you don't end up with players spending half of the play session trying to figure out an impossible riddle.
One long-term puzzle I did once was to occassionally provide players with short snippets of text written in a "lost language". It was just a substition cipher, but it took the players until they had about fifteen little snippets to decode the language. (Which allowed them to decode an extensive nonsense word which was an elemental's true name.)
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To steal from Call of Cthulhu's Pulpy "The Thing on the Doorstep" (I don't have the book in country with me, so the clues won't be in verse)
1. A 3-6 meter wide pit 100 meters deep, the other side is 10 feet below the starting. The other side is covered with sharp spines except for an idol of an evil looking spiny god (Glakki).
Clue: About trusting yourself to the embrace of the god.
Solution: Jump into the outstreched arms of the idol. Your weight will tip the idol forward causing the floor spikes to retract.
2. Idol of fleshy greedy god with hands outstretched (Cthulhu) totally safe passageway beyond (5 meters down the passageway the whole floor turns into a pressure plate, runs for 10 meters, more than 33 kilos triggers, causes celing to open depositing tons of rocks, rubble and people who fell down the pit from trap 1 for massive damage)starting after the idol.
Clue: About giving your valuables/children to the god.
Solution: Placing weight between 2-7 kilos in hands of god turns off trap for five min, then hands reset dropping offering.
3. Big long room, wall covered in small holes, floor filled with mud/snakes. Anyone walking through gets darted all the time and attacked by a perpetual snake swarm. Snakes get better poison (Hail Yig.)
Clue: Yig will not bite his children
Solution, wriggling/seal crawling across the floor keeps you below the dart-line and the snakes don't mind.
Pretty easy but still I liked these.
One facet I haven't seen anybody post about is this: Would D&D characters know pi, fractions of pi, or uses of pi? If the answer to even one of those is no, then that wouldn't be a good riddle.
I wondered that too. At various places around the world I think PI has been known for at least 2000 years (at least to 3-6 decimal places). So a PC who has an interest in math (Cypher mage, priest of god more Kabalistic in nature, or some kind of academic) might know. Or the number mage from the old Al-Qadim setting. The average person, no.
The in-character question comes up big time when you have an INT 20 guy played by an INT 10 guy (less so vice versa). That's basically why they put those knowledge checks in though. If they take too long, there's always the chance the characters could solve something the players couldn't, but that isn't very satisfying.
What are some of the best puzzles you have made as a GM to challenge players?
Here's one I did:
You have a three heavy solid iron doors ahead of you. One is round, one is triangular, and one is pentagon-shaped. The area is under a permanent anti-magic field. In front of the doors is a large statue holding out open hands with the palms up as if holding something. The left hand is above the right. Nearby is a bucket full lead balls. How do you get continue?
Answer: The fraction approximation of pi is 22/7. Place 22 balls in the higher hand and 7 balls in the lower. This opens the round door and lets you continue into the rest of the dungeon. Any other combination opens one of the other doors at random and releases monsters from dead-end passageways.
(I allow stumped players to make intelligence checks for hints.)
It would never occur to me that 22/7 has anything to do with round door. Nor would it ever occur to any of my characters. Too large thought leap required without actual hints leading to the way of solving the riddle. I'll test it on fellow mathematicians.
What are some of the best puzzles you have made as a GM to challenge players?
ENOUGH WITH PI!
We get it; it's hard and debatable. But look at the OP's opening sentence (above).
I've gotten some of the best gaming advice from posters on these boards and to be perfectly honest I'm selfishly hoping this thread continues so I can steal more puzzles so please; no more debating the virtues or flaws of the first one.
Now... does anyone have any other stuff we can use in our games?
Once I made a puzzle by taking a square of cardboard, took crayons and drawn upon it some fishes, sea, clouds and sky with sun, moon and stars. Then cut it into sixteen smaller squares and gave it to players to solve. For some strange reason the first group was sure that clouds should be above sun, moon and stars...
EDIt: There were some sea bottom too.
You know who made the best puzzles? Paizo. Back when they wrote Dragon and Dungeon magazines. If you are looking for a great way to include such puzzles into your game and want to do it in a way that still gives the characters a chance even if the players are stumped (this is important) I would highly recommend checking these out. Very high marks. It gets the Lune seal of approval.
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I like the "what am I?" word puzzles, personally. Here's a classic: "I am the end of the end, and the center of the middle; I have no start, no beginning, but I am at the heart of the hidden. What am I?"
Then just give them a stone keyboard. If they press any letter but "D", traps activate.
If you want pi, let them snack on this one: the players find a section of floor with a line engraved into it, next to a magical piece of chalk. Nearby is an inscription: "The learned I fill with knowledge; the foolish I fill with hunger. I am impossible to predict, but I will always be constant in times of need. Find me and you shall pass." The solution: draw a circle around the line. (If they draw anything but a circle, the chalk immediately fades.)
Note: my entire playgroup is engineers, so your mileage may vary with this one. :P
I guess the pi puzzle was too obscure without hints. The players I tried it on got and grumbled about it being too easy; but like Reynard, they all had RL jobs dealing with math and science. I like the suggestions somebody made about paintings of half-man creatures and circle motifs to give hints.
Here is another one. This one is easy:
You are approaching the citadel of the Ice Witch (or temple Priestess of the Ice Goddess, or any other cold-based villain.) You come to a door that has small alcove in it. You see these words written nearby:
I will crush your hall,
I will see you fall.
I ruin the purest well,
Mighty trees will I fell.
I am a murderer's delight
For I am gone by the sun's light.
What am I?
Answer: Ice
Placing ice in the alcove opens the door.