I think you're somewhat under-rating what you could do with going Arcane Trickster as a full caster (or almost full caster).Most AT building advice focuses on acquiring as much caster crunch as possible; I'd like to suggest that it should not be considered automatically suboptimal to eschew this mentality. For instance, is a rogue1/AT10/WizardX (with a feat for Accomplished Sneak Attacker) really getting his money's worth out of the PrC at the cost of -1 casting levels and minus eight or so hitpoints (lost FCB from taking PrC levels rather than favored class levels)? --The problem is that the AT PrC doesn't enhance a caster class so much as it enhances a martial class. I.e., it might make you a slightly better caster, but it'll definitely make you a better rogue. So, try going into AT with a rogue's mentality rather than a caster's mentality:
01 uRogue1
02 wizard1
03 uRogue2
04 uRogue3
05 uRogue4
06 wizard2
07 wizard3
08 ATrickster1 ...etc.Why would you do this? You might if your concept is of a rogue. I.e., you want Uncanny Dodge (a crucial component of your defense if you're a min/maxed dexterity build). You want Debilitating Injury. You want the 18 extra skillpoints. You want the two rogue talents and the extra feat saved by not having to take Accomplished Sneak Attacker. You want the free dex-to-damage without the annoyance of placing Agile on one or more weapons.
Are you stronger than a straight-classed fog wizard? Hell no. Are you stronger than a straight-classed rogue with Minor and Major Magic talents? Hell yes.
The higher level a full caster gets, the less need he would have for any rogue-like activities because he has summoned critters and meat-puppets to do everything for him, whether it be fighting, scouting, or healing. (The consequences of him failing at anything also steadily diminish, because he'll eventually be phoning in his participation via projection, possession, or clone, etc.)
This is in paradoxical contrast to the Guide's pronouncement of: "When to not play a trickster: Any game that won’t get into high levels." -- An AT actually shines best at low-level, in fact, before even reaching the prestige class, because the PC has so many different options for his action economy, and also because he lacks the money and crafting feats at low level to just make wands of everything he expects to cast more than one or two times a day.
I get what you're saying, and if you're stuck both without VMC (Rogue) and without Expert Sneak Attacker, it's certainly true, but if you have the benefit of one of those options, you can be a truly full-casting Arcane Trickster or just 1 level short of it, so then it comes down to whether you benefit more from the class features of your full casting class had you stayed with it or from the Arcane Trickster class features (which are not to be sneezed at). Obviously, you lose out if you go into it from any 6/9 casting class, and you wouldn't want to go into it from Arcanist or Witch (and honestly, it would hurt from Psychic as well, if you're thinking about the Thought Thief prestige archetype), but some types of Wizard and to a lesser extent some types of Sorcerer won't miss too much. Having said that, although the VMC option is definitely not for the short haul, a build that uses a single level dip of Sneak Attack class and the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat should be quite viable at low levels.
What second trait can't you live without, anyway? I'm assuming you're getting 2 traits free here of course.
^Pragmatic Activator (make Use Magic Device Int-based, especially since your level of Vivisectionist Alchemist was nice enough to put it in class already) and whatever Campaign Trait is appropriate for your character and campaign. If no Campaign Trait, then you have quite a lot of other good traits to choose from.
(And by the way, Varisian Tattoo looks to me like a real stinker of a feat unless you are doing a LOT of opposed caster level checks and caster level checks to overcome Spell Resistance, and even then it seems more of a desperation feat than one that is actually good.)
I've always thought that the Vivisectionist is a fun way into Arcane Trickster.
Vivisectionist-3/Witch-3/Arcane Trickster-10/Vivisectionist-4
I haven't drawn it up, but it's possible with the two world magic trait for Mage Hand, and you end with 7 levels of Vivisectionist, 10 levels of Arcane Trickster, and 13 levels of Witch spellcasting/access to Hexes.
Honestly, I think UnChained Scout Rogue-4/Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer-4/Arcane Trickster-10/UC Scout Rogue-2 is the best way to do it... as far as Arcane Tricksters are concerned. Wearing Mithral Shifting Jerkin armor, you can now switch your Rogue Talents and choose new combat feats via Martial Flexibility.
From UC Scout Rogue:
3x Rogue Talents
3D6 Sneak Attack
Finesse Training
Debilitating Injury
Sneak Attack on a charge
Evasion
From Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer:
Bloodline of your choice
Martial Flexibility 4/day!!!
Spontaneous 14th level casting
You end up with 8D6 Sneak Attack from AT.
Or you can go UC Scout Rogue-4/Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer-4/Arcane Trickster-10/Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer-2 for 2 Rogue Talents, 7D6 Sneak Attack, but 16th level casting, a trait corrects that to 18th CL for most things that matter, and Martial Flexibility 5/day.
You can be the face of the party, the skill monkey, the scout, the rogue, and also a little bit of crowd control/blasting/Sorcerer stuffs (with Sneak Attack damage)...
I think too many people focus on getting into Prestige Classes as soon as possible, and I think they mess it up not planning and patiently preparing.
Kobold
+2 DEX, -4 STR, -2 CON
+1AC, +1ATK, -1CMB/CMD, +4 Stealth
+1 natural armor
+2 Craft (trapfinding), +2 Perception, +2 Profession (miner)
*Day Raider
20pt Buy...
Starting Stats w/racials:
8,15,12,13,12,14
UC Scout Rogue
1. Finesse Training
1. Sneak Attack 1D6
1. Trapfinding
1. Feat:
2. Evasion
2. Rogue Talent:
3. Finesse Training
3. Sneak Attack 2D6
3. Danger Sense +1
3. Feat:
4. Stat Bump: DEX +1 (=16)
4. Scout's Charge
4. Debilitating Injury
4. Rogue Talent:
Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer
(5)1. Cantrips
(5)1. Spellcasting
(5)1. Eschew Materials
(5)1. Martial Flexibility
(5)1. Feat:
(6)2...
(7)3. Bloodline Power
(7)3. Bloodline Spell
(7)3. Feat:
(8)4. Stat Bump: CHA+1 (=15)
Arcane Trickster
(9)1. Ranged Lederdemain
(9)1. Feat:
(10)2. Sneak Attack 3D6
(11)3. Impromptu Sneak Attack 1/day
(11)3. Feat:
(12)4. Stat Bump: CHA+1 (=16)
(12)4. Sneak Attack 4D6
(13)5. Tricky Spells 3/day
(13)5. Feat:
(14)6. Sneak Attack 5D6
(15)7. Impromptu Sneak Attack 2/day
(15)7. Tricky Spells 4/day
(15)7. Feat:
(16)8. Stat Bump: CHA+1 (=17)
(16)8. Sneak Attack 6D6
(17)9. Invisible Thief
(17)9. Tricky Spells 5/day
(17)9. Feat:
(18)10. Surprise Spells
(18)10. Sneak Attack 7D6
You can go back to UC Scout Rogue or Eldritch Scrapper Sorcerer... doesn't matter except for traits you might want.
I chose the Kobold just for example... and it's easy to get a jump on the sneaky spell stuffs early if you want to take the 1/day Silent Spell alternative racial feature of the Kobold. And the Kobold Bloodline goes well with the whole Trapfinding Rogue business...
^Pragmatic Activator (make Use Magic Device Int-based, especially since your level of Vivisectionist Alchemist was nice enough to put it in class already) and whatever Campaign Trait is appropriate for your character and campaign. If no Campaign Trait, then you have quite a lot of other good traits to choose from.
(And by the way, Varisian Tattoo looks to me like a real stinker of a feat unless you are doing a LOT of opposed caster level checks and caster level checks to overcome Spell Resistance, and even then it seems more of a desperation feat than one that is actually good.)
With the sorc/wiz list and the alchemist list available without checks needed you hardly need UMD. It's wasted skill points, never mind a wasted trait.
Unless I was looking at it as a prereq I'd probably take something other than Varisian tattoo, but it does raise caster level for the effect and range of spells (possibly above character level) - this is normally more important than SR or dispel checks.
I've always thought that the Vivisectionist is a fun way into Arcane Trickster.
Vivisectionist-3/Witch-3/Arcane Trickster-10/Vivisectionist-4
I haven't drawn it up, but it's possible with the two world magic trait for Mage Hand, and you end with 7 levels of Vivisectionist, 10 levels of Arcane Trickster, and 13 levels of Witch spellcasting/access to Hexes.
{. . .}
Vivisectionist Alchemist sounds good for Arcane Tricskter, but Witch doesn't, because a lot of a Witch's power (other than White-Haired Witch) comes from Hexes, many of which are highly level-dependent, and Arcane Trickster doesn't progress those, thus making Witch a terrible arcane casting class for entry into Arcane Trickster, independently of having to use a trait to get Mage Hand.
Also, if you have access to the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat, you only need 1 level of Vivisectionist Alchemist to get into Arcane Tricskter.
^Pragmatic Activator (make Use Magic Device Int-based, especially since your level of Vivisectionist Alchemist was nice enough to put it in class already) and whatever Campaign Trait is appropriate for your character and campaign. If no Campaign Trait, then you have quite a lot of other good traits to choose from.
(And by the way, Varisian Tattoo looks to me like a real stinker of a feat unless you are doing a LOT of opposed caster level checks and caster level checks to overcome Spell Resistance, and even then it seems more of a desperation feat than one that is actually good.)
With the sorc/wiz list and the alchemist list available without checks needed you hardly need UMD. It's wasted skill points, never mind a wasted trait.
{. . .}
If you need to be able to cast Cleric/Oracle spells fairly reliably from Scrolls and Wands, UMD is your friend. Granted, being a level 1 Alchemist does help alleviate the need noticeably, but sometimes Cure Light Wounds just won't be enough. Besides, if you're an Arcane Trickster, chances are you're going to be delving into places that have magic items whose casting tradition (to borrow a 2nd Edition term) you won't know in advance, and it would be helpful to be able to use them.
If you don't want Pragmatic Activator, Magical Lineage is another Magic Trait worth considering instead of Magical Knack with half the benefit(*), if you have a go-to spell that you often need to apply metamagic to.
(*)Note: If you had at least 2 levels in a class not progressing your Sorcerer/Wizard casting, I would definitely say take Magical Knack. But for 1 level, it seems half wasted.
Apart from the above, traits that give you a bonus to Fortitude Saves, Initiative, or Perception (or even Defensive Strategist if you are a Neutral Good Torag worshipper) would be excellent for keeping you alive, even with your caster level behind by 1.
What second trait can't you live without, anyway? I'm assuming you're getting 2 traits free here of course.None, really - I'm thinking about using one to make stealth a class skill, {. . .}
If you're willing to wait through the low levels, Arcane Trickster itself makes Stealth a class skill, which makes such a trait redundant. I was looking for a trait that would give Trapfinding, but the only one I can find is the Mummy's Mask Campaign Trait that does this. That is Trap Finder, which also makes Disable Device a class skill, but both Alchemist and Arcane Trickster already do that, although the +1 bonus is still okay -- but if you're not in Mummy's Mask, this probably won't be available anyway. Also, you can use a spell (Aram Zey's Focus) to disable or bypass a small number of magical traps (this will run out of you come across a lot of them not in rapid succession, but even if that doesn't happen, it still works even better against mechanical traps if you have actual Trapfinding).
Not sure about the answer to your question about Magical Knack applying to Alchemist effective caster level, although I would think that it wouldn't work on Mutagens or Cognatogens.
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My personal favorite Arcane Trickster build is.
Warlock Vigilante 6 / Unchained Rogue 4 / Arcane Trickster 10
Warlock Vigilante gets Magus spell progression, but with access to the full Wizard spell list and a spell book. 6 levels gets you targeting touch AC on as many Mystic Bolts as you can make attacks with per turn.
Unchained Rogue 4 gets you Debilitating Injuries, a couple dice of sneak damage, a couple rogue talents, and lets you add dex to damage on your melee weapon attacks.
Starts off a bit slow, but by the time you are level 10+ (Warlock 6/URogue 1/AT 3) you should start seeing the real power of this combo shine. Two-weapon fighting against touch AC, with elemental damage weapons that ignore DR. Loads of skill points. Great access to magic to shore up any weaknesses.
I am playing one in PFS (Just hit level 10), and it is one of my favorite characters currently.
My personal favorite Arcane Trickster build is.
Warlock Vigilante 6 / Unchained Rogue 4 / Arcane Trickster 10
I am playing one in PFS (Just hit level 10), and it is one of my favorite characters currently.
Care to share the bits n' pieces? I'd love to see the whole thing.
So many fascinating builds here. That kobold looks like a peck of fun.