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Can unarmed attacks gain the broken condition?


Rules Questions

Cheliax

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If a PC whacks a critter with the shatter weapons extraordinary ability, such as a Caryatid Column, the PC's weapon suffers 3d6 damage. If this damage exceeds the weapon's hardness, the weapon takes damage and gains the broken condition.

Now what if the PC in question is a monk, without any gloves or gauntlets equipped? Would the monk suffer damage to his unarmed attacks and thus gain the broken condition? If yes, what is an unarmed attacks hardness? Zero? Does Magic Fang add hardness, hp, both, or neither? What is an unarmed attack's hp? The PC's hp? Does a cure spell or channeled positive energy mend the broken hand? Would the monk suffer 3d6 damage and gain the broken condition? Or just damage?

If no, then why not?

Qadira

I have wondered this, except with an Eidolon's Natural Strikes. Does that mean that the Eidolon's teeth break?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Good question. I think the monk would take the damage, but the unarmed strike is not broken unless the monk falls below 0 hp. I would play it that enhancement would add hardness as per a magic weapon, but the monk without DR has no innate hardness. A monk with ki strike (adamantine) would presumably be treated as having hardness 20.

But that's just my guess, I couldn't say for absolute certainty.

Osirion

Natural weapons / unarmed strikes cannot be sundered and do not have a broken condition. For the same reason, there is no hardness, their attacks forms cannot be damaged independantly of the creature.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Artanthos wrote:
Natural weapons / unarmed strikes cannot be sundered and do not have a broken condition. For the same reason, there is no hardness, their attacks forms cannot be damaged independantly of the creature.

So weapon shatter and sunder are the same thing?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Leg o' Lamb wrote:
Artanthos wrote:
Natural weapons / unarmed strikes cannot be sundered and do not have a broken condition. For the same reason, there is no hardness, their attacks forms cannot be damaged independently of the creature.
So weapon shatter and sunder are the same thing?

It's the difference between hitting the anvil with the hammer and hitting the hammer with the anvil. Important word bolded above.


I would rule that the monk takes the damage as HP instead.
RAW would be they are immune to the effect however. You can't sunder a unarmed/natural attack, and those attack forms cannot take damage.

Andoran

I'd like to answer the question with 2 others:

Does the system have a called shot rule?

Do unarmed/natural attacks have hit points?

The rule of thumb I have is that if it doesn't have hit points or hardness listed for for it then it can't be attacked, sundered, or destroyed as far as RAW is concerned. But if you want to create a system ala L5R or WW when the more damgae you take the more penalties are stacked onto what you do, then feel free. Or if you'd like to add it as a storytelling element in your game that's an option too.

But as per RAW, no.

Taldor

UAS can be knees, kicks, headbutt, etc. as well. any body part capable of making a strike. I'm curious to see a dev's answer.

Qadira

No reason for a dev to chime in really. Might as well ask if an unarmed strike can be disarmed.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

James Jacobs answered this a few years back right here

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