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Gunslinger (musket master): Optimal Build


Advice

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I’m trying to create an optimal gunslinger build from level 1 to 15, but I can’t seem to decide what the viable feats are after level 7. So far I have:

Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload: Musket (archetype bonus)
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Deadly Aim
Weapon Focus: Musket

From this point I am undecided on either taking dodge and mobility so I can take deft shooter and not have to worry about AoO, or taking something like vital strike and snap shot to increase my DPS. Any help is appreciated. I also don’t mind taking some small dips, with the exception of the monk of the sacred mountain idea, 4 levels is a bit more of a dip then I’m willing to take.


I like a two level dip in monk as odd as it sounds:

Both classes are wisdom based, it improves your save throws, and you get two bonus feats (I take dodge and mobility so I can take deft shootist quickly). It also means that you can shoot shoot shoot and then kick someone with an unarmed strike if they close without having to spend a point of grit for the using the musket in melee or switch weapons (If you wanted too).

It's involved by if you go Sohei monk level 6, and 3 levels of weapon master fighter you could even flurry of blows with your musket.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

If you dip, consider Urban Barbarian for the dex pumping rage. Do this after 5th level though.

Liberty's Edge

Feat-wise, aside from what ypu've listed, Improved Precise Shot really is worth it at 11th level. As is Signature Deed in all likelihood (and combined with Secret Stash, can give you unlimited ammo).

Extra Grit is also cool, as is Improved Critical.

Sovereign Court

The Urban Barbarian opens up way more options then I thought there was. And the other ideas are good as well. But I'm still not sure what to do.

Does Secret Stash just handle black powder and bullets, what about metal cartridges for advanced firearms?

Liberty's Edge

Tierce wrote:
The Urban Barbarian opens up way more options then I thought there was. And the other ideas are good as well. But I'm still not sure what to do.

That happens sometimes. Who is this guy? Often characterization is (and should be) the deciding factor between various mechanically equivalent options.

Tierce wrote:
Does Secret Stash just handle black powder and bullets, what about metal cartridges for advanced firearms?

It handles powder and bulets, or Alchemical Cartridges...but not Metal Cartridges.

Sovereign Court

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Who is this guy? Often characterization is (and should be) the deciding factor between various mechanically equivalent options.

He's a character for Skull and Shackles, and the concept is that he's a venerable dwarf gunslinger who was accidently press ganged into service on the Wormwood. He was previously a "marine" for Andoran privateers, so he would probably be the only morally "good" character in the pirate setting.

The long term goal is to get a rifle with a Far Reaching Sight. I want him to be as profiecient with the rifle as possible and to output a far amount of damage. He might also be designated as the Siege Officer much later down the line.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Have you considered the Duergar, Svirfneblin, or Asura-Spawn tiefling? It would be really easy to work any of those races into the concept if that tickled your fancy.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

If you wanna break the game, pick up Deft Shootist, and you never hafta swing a Melee weapon again. For the cheesiest build of all time, pick up the Combat Relfexes, Snap Shot, And Improved Snap Shot feats. 15 Foot threatened area with Dex mod AoO's every round? Yes please.
At 11th level, pick up Signature Deed Bleeding Wound. Keep in mind that this build will forever make you the least popular player of all time. (Thus my decision to play a wizard instead . . . XD)

Shadow Lodge

Dot!

Tierce, I'd love to see a full build at the end of all this!

Sovereign Court

Errant Inlad wrote:

If you wanna break the game, pick up Deft Shootist, and you never hafta swing a Melee weapon again. For the cheesiest build of all time, pick up the Combat Relfexes, Snap Shot, And Improved Snap Shot feats. 15 Foot threatened area with Dex mod AoO's every round? Yes please.

At 11th level, pick up Signature Deed Bleeding Wound. Keep in mind that this build will forever make you the least popular player of all time. (Thus my decision to play a wizard instead . . . XD)

I think I will do that, I will make it up later today and post it


Tierce wrote:


Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload: Musket (archetype bonus)
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Deadly Aim
Weapon Focus: Musket

Is Deadly Aim really that useful a choice? It doesn't work on touch attacks, so would only come into play if you're shooting outside your range increment at normal AC.

Given you're usually trying to avoid shooting at normal AC, its a feat you'd be trying to avoid having to use... thus its relevance drops off slightly.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Deadly Aim does work with firearms it specifically says so in the firearms description.

Sovereign Court

EvilMinion wrote:

Is Deadly Aim really that useful a choice? It doesn't work on touch attacks, so would only come into play if you're shooting outside your range increment at normal AC.

Given you're usually trying to avoid shooting at normal AC, its a feat you'd be trying to avoid having to use... thus its relevance drops off slightly.

Firearms hit touch AC in its first range increment, its not a touch attack, so Deadly Aim still applies and its quite.... well... deadly


Deadmanwalking wrote:
As is Signature Deed in all likelihood (and combined with Secret Stash, can give you unlimited ammo).
Secret Stash Deed wrote:
The grit cost of this deed cannot be decreased by the Signature Deed feat, the true grit class feature, or any other similar effect that reduces the number of grit points you spend to use a deed.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
ralath wrote:
Deadly Aim does work with firearms it specifically says so in the firearms description.
UC wrote:

Range and Penetration: Armor, whether manufactured

or natural, provides little protection against the force of a
bullet at short range.
Early Firearms: When firing an early firearm, the attack
resolves against the target’s touch AC when the target is
within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type
of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes
of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim.
At higher range
increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking
the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full range
increment. Unlike other projectile weapons, early firearms
have a maximum range of five range increments.
Advanced Firearms: Advanced firearms resolve their
attacks against touch AC when the target is within the
first five range increments, but this type of attack is not
considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats such as
Deadly Aim
. At higher range increments, the attack resolves
normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2
penalty for each full-range increment.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Oh snap.

Liberty's Edge

Cibulan wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
As is Signature Deed in all likelihood (and combined with Secret Stash, can give you unlimited ammo).
Secret Stash Deed wrote:
The grit cost of this deed cannot be decreased by the Signature Deed feat, the true grit class feature, or any other similar effect that reduces the number of grit points you spend to use a deed.

Damn, missed that. Ah, well. C'est la vie.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tierce wrote:
Errant Inlad wrote:

If you wanna break the game, pick up Deft Shootist, and you never hafta swing a Melee weapon again. For the cheesiest build of all time, pick up the Combat Relfexes, Snap Shot, And Improved Snap Shot feats. 15 Foot threatened area with Dex mod AoO's every round? Yes please.

At 11th level, pick up Signature Deed Bleeding Wound. Keep in mind that this build will forever make you the least popular player of all time. (Thus my decision to play a wizard instead . . . XD)
I think I will do that, I will make it up later today and post it

Last bit of advice; Bucklers can be used while firing firearms. And my prayers go with you, friend, for no mortal player should face the wrath of a DM presented with this build without Divine aid.

Dark Archive

Why can bucklers be used while firing firearms?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Jarred Henninger wrote:
Why can bucklers be used while firing firearms?

It's in the rules, that's why.


I wanna make that build :) ...dotted!

Dark Archive

Errant Inlad wrote:

If you wanna break the game, pick up Deft Shootist, and you never hafta swing a Melee weapon again. For the cheesiest build of all time, pick up the Combat Relfexes, Snap Shot, And Improved Snap Shot feats. 15 Foot threatened area with Dex mod AoO's every round? Yes please.

At 11th level, pick up Signature Deed Bleeding Wound. Keep in mind that this build will forever make you the least popular player of all time. (Thus my decision to play a wizard instead . . . XD)

ummm.

you cant take actions (reload) on not your turn. even free actions can only happen on your turn

Shadow Lodge

Tierce, have you come up with anything good yet?

Sovereign Court

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Here is what I got. Please tweek it however you like, especially on order of feats. The AP will only go to level 15, but I included the extra 5 levels for the hell of it. Also, should I design a more powerful rifle as my eventual goal?

BELRIM EAGLE-EYE
Male Svirfneblin Gunslinger (Musket Master)
LN Small Humanoid (Gnome)
Senses Darkvision (120 feet), Low-Light Vision

--------------------
OFFENSE
--------------------
Spd 20 ft.
Ranged: +1 Reliable, Seeking Rifle
Spell-Like Abilities Blindness/Deafness (1/day), Blur (1/day), Disguise Self (1/day), Nondetection (Constant)
--------------------
STATISTICS
--------------------
Str 13, Dex 18 (Bump to 23 by level 20), Con 8, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8

Feats:

Level 1: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload: Musket (Class Ability)
Level 3: Precise Shot
Level 4: Rapid Shot
Level 5: Deadly Aim
Level 7: Weapon Focus: Rifle
Level 8: Dodge
Level 9: Mobility
Level 11: Deft Shootist Deed
Level 12: Signature Deed: Bleeding Wound
Level 13: Snap Shot
Level 15: Combat Reflexes
Level 16: Improved Snap Shot
Level 17: Improved Precise Shot
Level 19: Extra Grit
Level 20: Improved Critical: Rifle

Traits Freedom Fighter, Peg Leg (Yes he has a peg leg)

Liberty's Edge

Why in the world do you have Str 13? Or Con 8? Drop Str to 12 and boost Con to 10 at the very least.

Other than that, looks workable.

Sovereign Court

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Why in the world do you have Str 13? Or Con 8? Drop Str to 12 and boost Con to 10 at the very least.

Other than that, looks workable.

Done


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Cibulan wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
As is Signature Deed in all likelihood (and combined with Secret Stash, can give you unlimited ammo).
Secret Stash Deed wrote:
The grit cost of this deed cannot be decreased by the Signature Deed feat, the true grit class feature, or any other similar effect that reduces the number of grit points you spend to use a deed.
Damn, missed that. Ah, well. C'est la vie.

Haha yeah, I do that all the time.

Liberty's Edge

Tierce wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Why in the world do you have Str 13? Or Con 8? Drop Str to 12 and boost Con to 10 at the very least.

Other than that, looks workable.

Done

Cool. To be really optimal you should likely drop Str all the way to 10 and boost Con to 12, but either way that'll definitely work now.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Name Violation wrote:
Errant Inlad wrote:

If you wanna break the game, pick up Deft Shootist, and you never hafta swing a Melee weapon again. For the cheesiest build of all time, pick up the Combat Relfexes, Snap Shot, And Improved Snap Shot feats. 15 Foot threatened area with Dex mod AoO's every round? Yes please.

At 11th level, pick up Signature Deed Bleeding Wound. Keep in mind that this build will forever make you the least popular player of all time. (Thus my decision to play a wizard instead . . . XD)

ummm.

you cant take actions (reload) on not your turn. even free actions can only happen on your turn

It now works, per this FAQ.


Joyd wrote:
Name Violation wrote:
Errant Inlad wrote:

If you wanna break the game, pick up Deft Shootist, and you never hafta swing a Melee weapon again. For the cheesiest build of all time, pick up the Combat Relfexes, Snap Shot, And Improved Snap Shot feats. 15 Foot threatened area with Dex mod AoO's every round? Yes please.

At 11th level, pick up Signature Deed Bleeding Wound. Keep in mind that this build will forever make you the least popular player of all time. (Thus my decision to play a wizard instead . . . XD)

ummm.

you cant take actions (reload) on not your turn. even free actions can only happen on your turn

It now works, per this FAQ.

Haha, they actually legalized the most broken build of all time? They love them some gunslingers.


I would drop weapon focus (unless it is needed in another feat) since you hit touch AC and many mobs have sucky touch AC, lets you get deft shootist at level 9 instead of 11.

Sovereign Court

Nemitri wrote:
I would drop weapon focus (unless it is needed in another feat) since you hit touch AC and many mobs have sucky touch AC, lets you get deft shootist at level 9 instead of 11.

Wish I could, but weapon focus is a feat tax for all the snap shot feats

Liberty's Edge

Tierce wrote:
Wish I could, but weapon focus is a feat tax for all the snap shot feats

Grab it at 11th level? Still gets you Deft Shootist sooner.

Grand Lodge

Why would you take deadly aim? It prevents the musket master from using her touch attack.


What about Vital Strike instead of rapid shot? Less chance to misfire, etc.


As Gnomersy pointed out in this thread, the Rapid Reload bonus feat from the Musket Master is only for muskets and will not work with a rifle.


The Snap Shot feat chain is nice for a Pistol user, but as a Musket Master I would ask myself how often I'm going to be within 15 feet of my enemies. Personally, my goal would be to maintain distance and unleash on targets before they can get to me.

Signature deed is nice, but not necessary for a Musket Master. If you choose to only go up to level 5 with a gunslinger you can open up some nice multi-classing options. I'm a big fan of mixing in Inquisitor levels. That nets you Judgements, Bane and spell casting for increased damage and utility. You can also boost your Initiative to incredible levels =P

Alternatively, mixing in Monk levels boosts your AC & Saves while giving you the option to become a switch-hitter. Grab Weapon Finesse and an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists. Then pick up some Monk's Robes. You'll now add Dex to damage and attack rolls for both ranged and melee attacks. You have some useful Grit abilities, and you don't lose any progression on your Monk AC bonuses or Unarmed damage.

Additionally, the logic that allows you to use Crane style with a bow should also apply to a musket. So feel free to grab those styles that require you to have one hand free.

Scarab Sages

Lostmartyr wrote:
Why would you take deadly aim? It prevents the musket master from using her touch attack.

No it doesn't.

When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target's touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim.

Sczarni

Dip one level in Wizard, school of Foresight, take a Initiative boosting familiar.

You get:
* +5 to initiative
* 3+INT/Day: ability to roll a d20 at the start of your go and use in place of any d20 result you get (good for those 'I really need you not to misfire' shots)
* You always act on a surprise round, even if you fail a perception check.

This means, at the start of most combat, aside from any horrible rolls: you're going first with a beastly +14 Initiative modifier (+5 from dex, +1 forewarned, +4 familiar, +2 trait, +2 Gunslinger's initiative) and you're then only hitting 10+ Size modifier + Deflection AC.

You also get access to spells, which means wands are suddenly useful. But what's particularly useful for you is that you get Perfect Strike which is a +20 to next attack. Perfect strike has no somatic components!


Why not far shot? Seems like it works perfect with the far reaching sight. Now you can be twice as far back with the same penalty.

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