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Raven Familiar


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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Grand Lodge

Can my Raven Familiar help out a bit more since it speaks Common? Can it listen around, make Perception Checks, make Knowledge Checks, and Sense Motive and the like?

Also, what do you usually do with your Familiar?

Qadira

1) Yes, yes it can: Yup, but it still is a bird and would be treated as such, so don't let it wander around the Hunter's Lodge.

2) My familiar is a ring...


Yes to all the above. With the exception of the abilitiy to speak all familiars can do that. Familiars have ranks equal to yours in all skills. Effectively they give you two rolls on perception/knowledge checks, etc.

Sczarni

zean wrote:

Can my Raven Familiar help out a bit more since it speaks Common? Can it listen around, make Perception Checks, make Knowledge Checks, and Sense Motive and the like?

Also, what do you usually do with your Familiar?

Greetings traveler! Tired o' that raven? Lookin' to expand yer actions in combat with yer very own Portable Wand Dispensing servant? Might I be suggesting Improved Familiar? If ye make the wise decision an' grab yerself a wee little imp minion (and have ranks in UMD), it'll be making fer tons of fun on the side.

Grand Lodge

Admiral Swagger wrote:
zean wrote:

Can my Raven Familiar help out a bit more since it speaks Common? Can it listen around, make Perception Checks, make Knowledge Checks, and Sense Motive and the like?

Also, what do you usually do with your Familiar?

Greetings traveler! Tired o' that raven? Lookin' to expand yer actions in combat with yer very own Portable Wand Dispensing servant? Might I be suggesting Improved Familiar? If ye make the wise decision an' grab yerself a wee little imp minion (and have ranks in UMD), it'll be making fer tons of fun on the side.

Oh I totally will, once I reach Level 7.

Andoran

zean wrote:
Admiral Swagger wrote:
zean wrote:

Can my Raven Familiar help out a bit more since it speaks Common? Can it listen around, make Perception Checks, make Knowledge Checks, and Sense Motive and the like?

Also, what do you usually do with your Familiar?

Greetings traveler! Tired o' that raven? Lookin' to expand yer actions in combat with yer very own Portable Wand Dispensing servant? Might I be suggesting Improved Familiar? If ye make the wise decision an' grab yerself a wee little imp minion (and have ranks in UMD), it'll be making fer tons of fun on the side.
Oh I totally will, once I reach Level 7.

Just remember, if you get an Imp familiar, don't play with Paladins, or other anti-evil outsider types.

Cheliax

Callarek wrote:
zean wrote:
Admiral Swagger wrote:
zean wrote:

Can my Raven Familiar help out a bit more since it speaks Common? Can it listen around, make Perception Checks, make Knowledge Checks, and Sense Motive and the like?

Also, what do you usually do with your Familiar?

Greetings traveler! Tired o' that raven? Lookin' to expand yer actions in combat with yer very own Portable Wand Dispensing servant? Might I be suggesting Improved Familiar? If ye make the wise decision an' grab yerself a wee little imp minion (and have ranks in UMD), it'll be making fer tons of fun on the side.
Oh I totally will, once I reach Level 7.
Just remember, if you get an Imp familiar, don't play with Paladins, or other anti-evil outsider types.

Or just tell your imp to stay invisible when the paladin is looking.

Besides, how many paladins do you know that have Knowledge (Planes)? By the time the paladin got off a detect evil, the imp has gone invisible again.

Andoran

Mergy wrote:
Callarek wrote:
zean wrote:
Admiral Swagger wrote:
zean wrote:

Can my Raven Familiar help out a bit more since it speaks Common? Can it listen around, make Perception Checks, make Knowledge Checks, and Sense Motive and the like?

Also, what do you usually do with your Familiar?

Greetings traveler! Tired o' that raven? Lookin' to expand yer actions in combat with yer very own Portable Wand Dispensing servant? Might I be suggesting Improved Familiar? If ye make the wise decision an' grab yerself a wee little imp minion (and have ranks in UMD), it'll be making fer tons of fun on the side.
Oh I totally will, once I reach Level 7.
Just remember, if you get an Imp familiar, don't play with Paladins, or other anti-evil outsider types.

Or just tell your imp to stay invisible when the paladin is looking.

Besides, how many paladins do you know that have Knowledge (Planes)? By the time the paladin got off a detect evil, the imp has gone invisible again.

Ummm. Not necessarily. Both Detect Evil & Invisibility take a Standard action to cast.

Imp does something to become visible, which will usually qualify as some sort of attack, which usually uses the Imp's Standard action for that round. Visible.
Paladin's turn comes up, Imp is still visible. Paladin burns his Standard to turn on Detect Evil, and spends his Move action to move it up to 3-round equivalency.

Imp can then, on his turn, go invisible, but the Paladin will likely be set to do nasty things to the imp the next time it becomes visible, if he isn't attempting to do so while it is still invisible.

And, just to be contrary, don't forget that Cleric's can get alternative Channel Energies, like maybe one that can be used to harm evil outsiders?

Now., I don't much care, but someone, in another thread, pointed out that there are some equally useful Improved Familiars available from Bestiary 3 that are not evil....

And don't forget that Imps would only be available if your alignment is LN or NN; and Quasits for CN & NN...

Cheliax

Callarek wrote:
Ummm. Not necessarily. Both Detect Evil & Invisibility take a Standard action to cast.

If your imp does something that causes him to be visible in combat and the paladin uses his entire turn to find out if the imp is evil, you have bigger problems in your group.

Silver Crusade

Yeah, I would hate to be a GM at that table. Because *logically*, if a Paladin sees an Imp show up out of nowhere in combat, he'd Smite Evil and go off on it. I would hate to break out some metagame rules for it. I would, but I wouldn't like it.

Lantern Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Imp consular at level 8; can use Beast Shape II to pretend to be a tiny or small animal.

"What's that, Sir Stompsalot? No, no, that's just my cat . . . yes, I know he's kind of a jerk. He's a cat. Nothing evil . . ."

Silver Crusade

Stockvillain wrote:

Imp consular at level 8; can use Beast Shape II to pretend to be a tiny or small animal.

"What's that, Sir Stompsalot? No, no, that's just my cat . . . yes, I know he's kind of a jerk. He's a cat. Nothing evil . . ."

That explains *quite* a lot. Now where'd that cat go....time to see if he reacts to holy objects...

Grand Lodge

Guys, a paladin has an intelligence score. They don't unthinkingly violently attack creatures that are traditionally evil, especially when said creatures are magically bound by an ally to be friendly.

Silver Crusade

KestlerGunner wrote:
Guys, a paladin has an intelligence score. They don't unthinkingly violently attack creatures that are traditionally evil, especially when said creatures are magically bound by an ally to be friendly.

Mhm. And if it pops out of nowhere, and the ally hadn't mentioned cavorting with evil? Any paladin would logically assume it was a threat, and proceed to smite it.

Qadira

Why smite it? It doesn't even have that much health...

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I kind of like air elemental as a familiar. That 100' of perfect maneuverability with flyby attack makes them pretty good at delivering touch attacks like an intensified shocking grasp.


True Neutrality is 2 steps removed from Lawful/Evil (and Chaotic/Evil, for that matter). Imps for L/N only in PFS.


I can only recommend to get a fairy dragon as an improved familiar. The little devils are cute, clever and cunning. x)

...isn't that right, Perlivash? ^.°

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Faerie Dragons aren't available yet as an option of Imrpoved Familiar. the same holds true for quite a few of the creatures in Bestiary 2 and 3. These will eventually become legal but they aren't yet. When they do become legal, it will be added to the Additional Resources or a Chronicle sheet or both.

Here is a list:

Arbiter Inevitable (Bestiary 2)
Brownie (Bestiary 2)
Cacodaemon daemon (Bestiary 2)
Cassian Angel (Bestiary 2)
Lyrakien Azata (Bestiary 2)
Paracletus Aeon (Bestiary 2)
Silvanshee Agathion (Bestiary 2)
Voidworm protean (Beatiary 2)

Harbinger Archon (Bestiary 3)
Carbuncle (Bestiary 3)
Faerie Dragon (Bestiary 3)
Shikigami Kami (Bestiary 3)
Sprite (Bestiary 3)
Zoog (Bestiary 3)


Brownie. Best familiar/servant ever. Just saying.

Andoran

Michael Brock wrote:

Faerie Dragons aren't available yet as an option of Imrpoved Familiar. the same holds true for quite a few of the creatures in Bestiary 2 and 3. These will eventually become legal but they aren't yet. When they do become legal, it will be added to the Additional Resources or a Chronicle sheet or both.

Here is a list:
Arbiter Inevitable (Bestiary 2)
Brownie (Bestiary 2)
Cacodaemon daemon (Bestiary 2)
Cassian Angel (Bestiary 2)
Lyrakien Azata (Bestiary 2)
Paracletus Aeon (Bestiary 2)
Silvanshee Agathion (Bestiary 2)
Voidworm protean (Beatiary 2)

Harbinger Archon (Bestiary 3)
Carbuncle (Bestiary 3)
Faerie Dragon (Bestiary 3)
Shikigami Kami (Bestiary 3)
Sprite (Bestiary 3)
Zoog (Bestiary 3)

Thanks Mike, just went to check resource page and link is gone. Or I am, don't know yet.

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

It's now a link on the right side of the PFS landing page.

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Brownie. Best familiar/servant ever. Just saying.

The Improved Familiars from Bestiary 2 aren't legal yet, even though they were included in the index of Ultimate Magic.

The Additional Resources only makes the familiars In Chapter 2 legal.

Qadira

Alitan wrote:
True Neutrality is 2 steps removed from Lawful/Evil (and Chaotic/Evil, for that matter). Imps for L/N only in PFS.

Improved Familiar says you can choose a familiar with an alignment up to one step away on each alignment axis - lawful through chaotic and then good through evil, so a true neutral character could have a familiar of any alignment.

Shadow Lodge

Michael Brock wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Brownie. Best familiar/servant ever. Just saying.

The Improved Familiars from Bestiary 2 aren't legal yet, even though they were included in the index of Ultimate Magic.

The Additional Resources only makes the familiars In Chapter 2 legal.

1) There's nothing saying that the appendix is NOT illegal. The listed part of Ultimate Magic in the Additional Resources is saying what isn't legal or are altered, and the appendix is NOT listed.

2) Here YOU posted "If someone wishes to take Improved Familiars, as long as they meet the requirements, they are welcome to use them." This was a discussion of the Improved Familiars in the Ultimate Magic Appendix.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Brownie. Best familiar/servant ever. Just saying.

*sigh* Now I want an atomie familiar...

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Brownie. Best familiar/servant ever. Just saying.

The Improved Familiars from Bestiary 2 aren't legal yet, even though they were included in the index of Ultimate Magic.

The Additional Resources only makes the familiars In Chapter 2 legal.

1) There's nothing saying that the appendix is NOT illegal. The listed part of Ultimate Magic in the Additional Resources is saying what isn't legal or are altered, and the appendix is NOT listed.

2) Here YOU posted "If someone wishes to take Improved Familiars, as long as they meet the requirements, they are welcome to use them." This was a discussion of the Improved Familiars in the Ultimate Magic Appendix.

As it reads now under the ultimate Magic entry, the only familiars that are legal are the ones in Chapter 2. They way AR has always worked, if it isn't listed, then it has never been legal. I'm working to change some of that.

I didn't say I wasn't going to fix the problem. I just wanted to point out that until I get the Bestiary 2 creatures updated in the Ultimate Magic listing in Additional Resources, they aren't legal. Expect that to be updated in AR later this month. Totally my fault for not updating the AR in February. I lost my note reminding me to add that index list to the February update.

If there are other inconsistencies in the AR that anyone finds, please let me know so I can address those as well.

Shadow Lodge

We'll just have to agree to disagree until it gets fixed. Its not worth pointing out logic errors.

Paizo Employee Global Organized Play Coordinator

It is not a logic error. It is semantics and redundancy. There is nothing saying the normal familiars are illegal but yet they are still listed even though they do not need to be due to the way the sentence is worded. The entry is poorly worded and will be fixed.


Will Johnson wrote:
I kind of like air elemental as a familiar. That 100' of perfect maneuverability with flyby attack makes them pretty good at delivering touch attacks like an intensified shocking grasp.

Flyby attack doesn't prevent the AOO from leaving a threatened square on the victim unlike say Spring Attack or Ride by Attack.

So be careful someone might elect to take offense at your elemental shocking them..

-James

Andoran

Michael Brock wrote:
It's now a link on the right side of the PFS landing page.

OH, there it is. Thanks found it.

Osirion

james maissen wrote:

Flyby attack doesn't prevent the AOO from leaving a threatened square on the victim unlike say Spring Attack or Ride by Attack.

So be careful someone might elect to take offense at your elemental shocking them..

-James

Wow. I had to look that one up. It sure doesn't. Weird.

Is that a change from 3.5?

Shadow Lodge

Nope, worked like that before.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Pirate Rob wrote:
Nope, worked like that before.

Indeed. Luckily, for the example given earlier with the Air Elemental, most of the them tend to have Mobility, although, regretfully, the small sized one doesn't.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
james maissen wrote:
Will Johnson wrote:
I kind of like air elemental as a familiar. That 100' of perfect maneuverability with flyby attack makes them pretty good at delivering touch attacks like an intensified shocking grasp.

Flyby attack doesn't prevent the AOO from leaving a threatened square on the victim unlike say Spring Attack or Ride by Attack.

So be careful someone might elect to take offense at your elemental shocking them..

-James

Oh yeah, he's going to take a hit, but ideally a single AoO won't take him out. However, if that shocking grasp takes out the mob, there's no one left to deliver it (assuming the target doesn't have reach).

Grand Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Alexander_Damocles wrote:


Mhm. And if it pops out of nowhere, and the ally hadn't mentioned cavorting with evil? Any paladin would logically assume it was a threat, and proceed to smite it.

And this is why introducing characters before the box text rolls out is a Good Thing.

"Hi, I'm Galad, the Wizard. This thorny creature currently biting my ear is Mephandrius Xororh Hordreeg, Consumer of Souls, Bringer of Woe and Hand-Servant of Mephistopheles - the Whisperer in the Fire. Mephandrius and I go way back. I'll thank you not to take his wheedling for your immortal soul too seriously. He's really quite harmless when you get to know him."


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
KestlerGunner wrote:
Alexander_Damocles wrote:


Mhm. And if it pops out of nowhere, and the ally hadn't mentioned cavorting with evil? Any paladin would logically assume it was a threat, and proceed to smite it.

And this is why introducing characters before the box text rolls out is a Good Thing.

"Hi, I'm Galad, the Wizard. This thorny creature currently biting my ear is Mephandrius Xororh Hordreeg, Consumer of Souls, Bringer of Woe and Hand-Servant of Mephistopheles - the Whisperer in the Fire. Mephandrius and I go way back. I'll thank you not to take his wheedling for your immortal soul too seriously. He's really quite harmless when you get to know him."

Well done!


My personal experience with familiars leaves me to answer; Nothing.

Don't do anything with your familiar. All, and i mean *ALL* of the gm's I've played with as a familiar/animal companion toting PC have acted immediately to destroy the familiar upon usage other than decoration.

Some examples:
Most recent, Elven wizard with a Blue Macaw Parrot (originating from a jungle region, currently in a deciduous/grassland region). Elf and co. come upon two goblin guards lazily guarding entrance to party's goal, unseen. to set up rogue in party, wizard sends familiar in a circular route, to fly across the back area of map, behind goblins. Familiar is to fly through, squawk alot of elven phrases, and basically nothing else.\

Lazy goblin becomes snap alert master sniper, stands, turns 180 degrees, and drills parrot, putting him into negatives. Parrot then takes falling damage, pushing negatives to 2 rounds left before completely dead (gm was being magnanimous by allowing companion to have PC death rules)

Gm's excuse: What? They were hunting.

second example:
(second ed)
High level wiz character, fairy dragon familiar. Moving invis, FD lands a touch spell on a golem. spell ineffective, FD now visible. Golem leaves off fighter and rogue to perform hulk slam attack, FD crushed between hands in one shot.

And it goes on. The only reason I've ever utilized my familiars to full potential is in absolute-no-chance-of-combat situations. That, and character portraits.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The don't be a jerk rule applies to GM's too. I have killed a familiar as a GM before, but only because the Familiar triggered a Haunt.

But to purposely target a familiar when the situation doesn't warrant it is mean.

Sczarni

I lost me own familiar during a mighty battle with a massive dragon, with scales pitch as the night sky over rough waters, Year of the Shadow Lodge. But the death o' that imp be a worthy sacrifice. I sent the little bugger in to work his infernal magic on a fallen comrade and the beast swatted me minion down -- allowing m'self and a fellow holy man to rescue the dyin' lad. protip: dragons tend not to have combat reflexes

It be a toss up -- I lost me spellbook downside to being a witch, but I saved me first mate, an' we felled the dragon. So be careful using your beastie, aye, but with the big risks come the bigger rewards, an' having a little hellraiser of your own is well worth it almost errytime!


Callarek wrote:
Ummm. Not necessarily. Both Detect Evil & Invisibility take a Standard action to cast.

It even gets better, because the paladin actually only needs to spend a move action to detect evil on an object or creature - (s)he still has a standard action left to [insert most advantageous action here].

Ruyan.

Cheliax

RuyanVe wrote:
Callarek wrote:
Ummm. Not necessarily. Both Detect Evil & Invisibility take a Standard action to cast.

It even gets better, because the paladin actually only needs to spend a move action to detect evil on an object or creature - (s)he still has a standard action left to [insert most advantageous action here].

Ruyan.

Yeah... to um... move up to the imp?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mergy wrote:


Yeah... to um... move up to the imp?

If during a combat the imp appears to be the most dangerous 'enemy' on the board to the Paladin I think you're more or less out of combat already.

-James


Smite Evil does work on ranged attacks, too. Besides, hopefully the players are able to come up with a group set up, where such player vs. player interaction is not necessary.

Ruyan.

Qadira

1 person marked this as a favorite.

there is a strict NO PVP rule in society. read cooperate in the guide. specifically points out a situation where a cheliax demon summoner and a silver paladin can be in the same group to further "the pathfinders" goals.
i have mentioned this so many times on so many forums. playing a paladin does not mean you are playing "EVERYONE ELSES PALADIN" you dont have to attack evil on sight. npc or pc. level 4 paladin "oh a balor die you evil s.o.b."

Silver Crusade

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Nephril wrote:

there is a strict NO PVP rule in society. read cooperate in the guide. specifically points out a situation where a cheliax demon summoner and a silver paladin can be in the same group to further "the pathfinders" goals.

i have mentioned this so many times on so many forums. playing a paladin does not mean you are playing "EVERYONE ELSES PALADIN" you dont have to attack evil on sight. npc or pc. level 4 paladin "oh a balor die you evil s.o.b."

We know there is no PvP. The problem is when it would be *highly* logical for the Paladin (or any character, really) to kill a familiar of a wizard. If an *EVIL* monster appears randomly in the midst of combat, all of my characters, from the LG to the CN would assume it isn't friendly. And try to whack it. And then suddenly it gets a +600 Armor Bonus from the "Plot Armor" spell. The question is, is it fair to other PC's or the GM to have to break into metagame in the midst of a session?

If you were upfront about your evil little friend, that is one thing. But a randomly appearing evil monster? Falls under the don't be a jerk rule to me.

Andoran

RuyanVe wrote:
Callarek wrote:
Ummm. Not necessarily. Both Detect Evil & Invisibility take a Standard action to cast.

It even gets better, because the paladin actually only needs to spend a move action to detect evil on an object or creature - (s)he still has a standard action left to [insert most advantageous action here].

Ruyan.

Hmmm. You might want to take a closer look at the Paladin's ability. As far as it looks to me, they need to activate Detect Evil as a standard before they can bounce it to the three-round mark as a move.

Quote:
Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell. A paladin can, as a move action, concentrate on a single item or individual within 60 feet and determine if it is evil, learning the strength of its aura as if having studied it for 3 rounds. While focusing on one individual or object, the paladin does not detect evil in any other object or individual within range.

So, they can use Detect Evil as the spell, which means a standard action to activate.

Once activated, they can use a move action to concentrate on a single target and zip to the third round equivalent knowledge level for that target.

Nowhere do I see any way for that to take less than a standard action and a move action to do. Now, if the Paladin is already detecting evil, then he could just concentrate (move action) on a single target to get the third round knowledge.

Qadira

any ability that requires a standard action to activate but has the "at will" attached to it can be maintained permanently so long as you are conscious. at the beginning of the game. "every x minutes i renew my detect evil"


Nephril wrote:
any ability that requires a standard action to activate but has the "at will" attached to it can be maintained permanently so long as you are conscious. at the beginning of the game. "every x minutes i renew my detect evil"

The spell Detect Evil still requires concentration to maintain, however, and to concentrate on a spell requires a standard action each round.

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