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MultiClass Archetypes III: The Return of the MCA


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew

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Thanks for the suggestion. I have an idea for an inquisitor/alchemist class that uses bombs instead of the powers granted from its domain. I was thinking that the class can take the use of one of its banes or judgements and combine it with a bomb, making a Judgement/bane bomb. I was also thinking of allowing the class to use some form of divine extracts instead of the normal arcane extracts. Maybe create new discoveries that allows the class more ways to combine the bombs and the divine extracts or the judgements.


That sounds interesting, I'll be interested to see what you come up with.


Cool, the only problem that I have so far is coming up with a name. I'll create a write up for the class by next weekend.


We occasionally have that problem too. Some of the classes just don't have enough different synonyms available, even in the on-line thesauruses: eg. Monks = fist, hand, monastic, one or two others... just call it something pertaining to its role/flavor, and if that doesn't quite work, you'll likely get suggestions from us as we work over your creation.


Hey Elghinn, I'm trying to decide if I should combine the judgement and bombs class features into one class feature, or if I should keep them separate( but include a discovery that combines the two). What do you think?


I have decided on a decent name for the Inquisitor/Alchemist. It will be.... the Grenade Zealot. I cant decide on a good backstory/flavor for the class so I will leave that open for anyone to decide when the class is finished. Below is the basic class structure.

Primary Class: Inquisitor

Secondary Class: Alchemist

Hit Dice: d8

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The Grenade Zealot may select three Alchemist skills to add to his class skills in addition to his normal Inquisitor class skills. The Grenade Zealot gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Grenade Zealot is proficient with all simple weapons and bombs, plus the hand crossbow, longbow, repeating crossbow, shortbow, and the favored weapon of her deity. She is also proficient with light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).

Spellcasting: The Grenade Zealot cast divine spells from the Inquisitor Spell list. A Grenade Zealot learns, prepares, and cast spells like an Inquisitor equal to his Grenade Zealot level. He also receives additional spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score.

Alchemy (Su): Beginnig at first level, a Grenade Zealot gains the alchemist's alchemy class ability, allowing him to create mundane alchemy items, potions, and bombs only. He gains a competence bonus equal to 1/2 his Grenade Zealot level on Craft (Alchemy) checks when crafting these items. This replaces domain.

Throw Anything (Ex): At 1st level, a grenade Zealot gains throw anything as a bonus feat. This replaces Monster Lore.

Grenades (Su): At 1st level, a Grenade Zealot gains the ability to create grenades. This functions exactly as the Alchemist bombs class feature. This replaces Stern Gaze.

Divine Revelation (Su): At 3rd level, a___ can recieves a divine revelation from their god on how to improve their bombs. This functions like the alchemists discovery class ability.

Swift Alchemy (Ex): At 3rd level, a Grenade Zealot can create alchemical items with astounding speed. It takes a Grenade Zealot half the normal amount of time to create alchemical items.

Instant Alchemy (Ex): At 18th level, a Grenade Zealot can create alchemical items with almost supernatural speed. He can create any alchemical item as a full-round action if he succeeds at the Craft (alchemy) check and has the appropriate resources at hand to fund the creation.

Grand Revelation (Su): At 20th level, a Grenade Zealot recieves a two divine revelations, as well a third revelation, one more astounding than the ones before it. A Grenade Zealot chooses from an Alchemists Grand Discovery list.

Table: Grenade Zealot
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th

1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Alchemy, judgment 1/day, Throw Anything, orisons, Bomb 1d6 1 — — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Cunning initiative, detect alignment, track 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Swift Alchemy, Bomb 2d6, Divine Revelation 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Judgment 2/day 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Bane, Bomb 3d6, discern lies 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Divine Revelation 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Judgment 3/day, Bomb 4d6 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Second judgment 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Divine Revelation, Bomb 5d6 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Judgment 4/day 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Stalwart, Bomb 6d6 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Greater bane, Divine Revelation 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Judgment 5/day, Bomb 7d6 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Exploit weakness 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Divine Revelation, Bomb 8d6 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Judgment 6/day, third judgment 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Slayer, Bomb 9d6 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Divine Revelation 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Judgment 7/day, Bomb 10d6 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 True judgment, Grand Revelation 5 5 5 5 5 5


This looks nice.
Elghinn, any news about my Templar? I'm ready to go with the Redeemer when you guys have decided.


Okay, before I do a breakdown on this new one-
I'm -very- against giving inquisitor bombs. It's an offensive ability with more strength than most people give it, so tossing it on a class that can already heal and buff up damage is a whoooole lotta overkill.

Okay, so let's sit back and take a proper look here. First up is the amount of management in this class; you have per days, 6-level spellcasting, judgement decisions, bane, alchemy discoveries.

That is a lot of management, and I hear Inquisitor is already a bit of a complicated class. Let's try to switch out complication for complication- maybe remove judgement for bombs, for example.

Second up is how these abilities are going to interact- unless I'm mistake, those bombs are going to hit a lot with Justice active, and they're weaponlike, so Destruction should work with them. This guy might be a better bomber than a pure alchemist; something you may want to step back on.

That's just a quick peek, and I'm not too good with the inquisitor; I'll leave serious commenting to those who know that class better.


Some good points there Raider. I guess just looking at these two swaps and we can bring the balancing issues into focus:

Grenades for stern gaze

Alchemy for domain

Not sure if either of those are balanced. Perhaps the progression needs to be staggered so 1st level he's not getting Bombs/Grenades AND Judgment AND alchemy...

I think Grenade Zealot is a great name, and it's a wonderful idea.

@Raider: Imagine a multiclass Inq/Alc with Judgments and Bombs. Now transpose that power level to this MCA. Apart from the swaps mentioned above and the progression issue, I don't see anything synergistically overpowering this guy. If you do, then cool. You can't stop a multiclass Inq/Alc tossing judgments and bombs, so I don't see why you're against giving this guy both. Surely it's about giving him both but having it balanced....


Ok- I saw that you put the Arcane Templar on the MCA site for final approvation. So I think I can go, maybe?
Here it is.

The Redeemer:

It’s not only and always good versus bad, it’s also guilty versus innocent. More often than not, it’s not so simple to discern where the right and wrong lie, and make sure that guilty ones be condemned –even if they’re good– and innocents be saved and protected– even if they’re evil. But there are some gods who don’t stand injustices even in good’s name. And the redeemers are their agents. If a good zealot massacres ruthlessly helpless enemies, he has to be judged. If an evil general is loyal and honorable, he deserves respect– and maybe could, in time, be redeemed and become an ally and a force for good.

Primary Class: Paladin
Secondary Class: Inquisitor
Skills: +6 from Inquisitor class, +4 ranks/level
BAB: full
Saves: GPG
Alignment: LG, LN, NG
Spells: as paladin, both lists
1) Detect Alignment, Merciful Bane, Stern Gaze, Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 1/day
2) Divine Grace, Track
3) Aura of Courage, Discern Lies
4) Channel Positive Energy, Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 2/day
5) Justicer Bond
6) Retaliation
7) Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 3/day
8) Aura of Resolve
9) Second Verdict
10) Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 4/day
11) Aura of Justice
12) Improved Retaliation
13) Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 5/day
14) Aura of Divine Wrath
15) Third Verdict
16) Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 6/day
17) Aura of Righteousness
18) Lenient Amnesty
19) Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 7/day
20) True Redeemer

Detect Alignment: as inquisitor. This replaces Detect Evil.
Merciful Bane: A redeemer gains this as a bonus feat at 1st level. This replaces aura of good.
Stern Gaze: as inquisitor. This and Track replace Divine Health.
Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution: Starting at 1st level, a redeemer can lay an accusation upon an enemy as a swift action, charging him of a sin or a crime. Starting when the accusation is pronounced, if the respondent is guilty, the redeemer adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her redeemer level to all damage rolls made against the target of her verdict of condemnation. The redeemer’s attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
In addition, while the verdict of condemnation is in effect, the redeemer gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by her target.
However, if the redeemer’s target is innocent, he benefits of a verdict of absolution: the redeemer gains no combat bonus against the target and each hit of the redeemer’s weapon can’t harm him, instead healing him of 1d6 hit points (up to a maximum of 1d6 hit points of damage for every two levels of the redeemer). The redeemer can’t invoke a verdict upon someone that she knows to be innocent with the purpose of healing him; neither she can charge someone with a sin without clues (the redeemer can’t accuse a foe of adultery if she doesn’t reasonably believe that he could have committed it).
At 1st level, a redeemer can use this ability once per day. At 4th level and every three levels thereafter, the redeemer can use this ability one additional time per day. Once activated, this ability lasts until the combat ends (at which point all of the effects immediately end) or until the opponent chooses to “beg for mercy”, recognizing his sin and surrendering. If the opponent is truly repentant, the verdict of condemnation bonuses are lifted and he receives the benefits of a Merciful Bane. If the opponent attacks again the redeemer or her allies before the end of the combat, the verdict’s effect resume, as he shows not to be truly repented.
The redeemer must participate in the combat to activate the ability. If she is later frightened, panicked, paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, or otherwise prevented from participating in the combat, the ability does not end.
When the redeemer uses this ability, she must select one type of crime to charge on her opponent. She can’t change her charge to another type during the same combat.
This replaces Lay on Hands and Smite.
Divine Grace: as paladin.
Track: as inquisitor. This and Stern Gaze replace Divine Health.
Aura of Courage: as paladin.
Discern Lies: as inquisitor. This, replaces the 3rd-level mercy.
Channel Positive Energy: When a redeemer reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to channel positive energy like a cleric. Using this ability consumes one use of her verdict ability. A redeemer uses her level as her effective cleric level when channeling positive energy. This is a Charisma-based ability.
Justicer Bond: Upon reaching 5th level, a redeemer forms a divine bond with her god. This bond can take one of two forms. Once the form is chosen, it cannot be changed.
The first type of bond allows the redeemer to enhance her weapon as a standard action by calling upon the aid of a celestial spirit for 1 minute per redeemer level. When called, the spirit causes the weapon to shed light as a torch. At 5th level, this spirit grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5, or they can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: bane (evil dragons, outsiders, or undead), defending, disruption, flaming, flaming burst, frost, holy, icy burst, keen, merciful, and speed. Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's cost (see Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities). These bonuses are added to any properties the weapon already has, but duplicate abilities do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. The bonus and properties granted by the spirit are determined when the spirit is called and cannot be changed until the spirit is called again. The celestial spirit imparts no bonuses if the weapon is held by anyone other than the paladin but resumes giving bonuses if returned to the redeemer. These bonuses apply to only one end of a double weapon. A redeemer can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels beyond 5th, to a total of four times per day at 17th level.
If a weapon bonded with a celestial spirit is destroyed, the redeemer loses the use of this ability for 30 days, or until she gains a level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the redeemer takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
The second type of bond allows a redeemer to gain the service of an outsider servant. This functions as summon monster III, except the duration is permanent and the redeemer can only gain the service of a single creature and that creature must either have the good and/or lawful subtypes or it must be a celestial or resolute animal. Once selected, the choice is set, but it may be changed whenever the redeemer gains a level. Upon reaching 7th level, and every two levels thereafter, the level of the summon monster spell increases by one, to a maximum of summon monster IX at 17th level. Once per day, as a full-round action, a redeemer may magically call his servant to his side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the redeemer’s level. The servant immediately appears adjacent to the redeemer. A redeemer can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level.
At 11th level, the servant gains the advanced template. At 15th level, a redeemer’s servant gains spell resistance equal to the redeemer’s level + 11.
Should the redeemer’s servant die or be banished, the redeemer may not summon another servant for 30 days or until he gains a redeemer level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the redeemer takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
This replaces divine bond.
Retaliation: At 3rd level, a redeemer can add a retaliation effect to her verdict ability. This effect is a punition or reward appropriate for the sin charged on the accused foe. The redeemer must state that she’s going to use retaliation before speaking her verdict. If the foe is guilty of that sin, he suffers the listed penalty in addition to the smiting effect of the verdict of condemnation. If he’s innocent, he receives the listed bonus in addition to the healing for a verdict of absolution. A guilty opponent who begs for mercy has the retaliation’s penalties relieved, as long as he doesn’t attack again the redeemer or her allies during that combat.
The following is a list of sins charged and their retaliation effects:
Adultery/Lust: Absolution— The accused gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against charm effects and abilities based on fascination or physical attractiveness (such as a nymph’s blinding beauty and stunning glance abilities) for 1 minute. Condemnation—The accused gains a -4 penalty on saving throws against charm effects and effects that fascinate for 1 minute.
Deception: Absolution—The accused gains a +2 bonus on Perception and Sense Motive checks for 1 minute. Condemnation—The accused gains a -2 penalty on Perception and Sense Motive checks for 1 minute.
Greed: Absolution—The accused gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls until the end of your next turn. Condemnation—The accused gains a -2 penalty on attack and damage rolls until the end of your next turn.
Impiety: Absolution—The accused gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against divine magic for 1 minute. Condemnation—The accused gains a -2 penalty on saving throws against divine magic for 1 minute.
Indifference/Laziness: Absolution—The accused gains an additional attack per round for 4 rounds. Condemnation—The accused is fatigued for 8 rounds.
Murder: Absolution—When under 0 hit points, the accused automatically stabilizes for 1 minute. Condemnation—Whenever the redeemer confirms a critical hit with a melee weapon, the accused receives 2 additional points of bleed damage. This ability lasts for 4 rounds.
Theft/Robbery: Absolution—The accused gains a +2 bonus on his CMD to resist a dirty trick, disarm, drag or trip maneuver for 1 minute. Condemnation—The accused gains a -2 penalty on his CMD to resist a dirty trick, disarm, drag or trip maneuver for 1 minute.
Treason: Absolution—The accused gains a +2 bonus on checks to resist Diplomacy or Intimidate, and on Sense Motive checks to resist Bluff, for 1 minute. Condemnation—The accused gains a -2 penalty on checks to resist Diplomacy or Intimidate, and on Sense Motive checks to resist Bluff, for 1 minute.
Violence/Wrath: Absolution—The accused gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against fear effects for 1 minute. Condemnation—The accused is shaken for 8 rounds.
This replaces the 6th-level mercy.
Aura of Resolve: as paladin.
Second Verdict: At 9th level, whenever a redeemer uses her verdict ability, she can charge her foe for two different sins, instead of one. This only consumes one use of her verdict ability. This replaces the 9th-level mercy.
Aura of Justice: as paladin.
Improved Retaliation: At 12th level, whenever the redeemer uses her retaliation ability, the bonuses and penalties caused by the verdict increase in the following ways.
Adultery/Lust: Absolution— The accused gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against charm effects and abilities based on fascination or physical attractiveness (such as a nymph’s blinding beauty and stunning glance abilities) for 2 minutes. Condemnation—The accused gains a -4 penalty on saving throws against charm effects and effects that fascinate for 2 minutes.
Deception: Absolution—The accused gains a +4 bonus on Perception and Sense Motive checks for 1 minute. Condemnation—The accused gains a -4 penalty on Perception and Sense Motive checks for 1 minute.
Greed: Absolution—The accused gains a +4 bonus on attack rolls until the end of your next turn. Condemnation—The accused gains a -4 penalty on attack and damage rolls until the end of your next turn.
Impiety: Absolution—The accused gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against divine magic for 1 minute. Condemnation—The accused gains a -4 penalty on saving throws against divine magic for 1 minute.
Indifference/Laziness: Absolution—The accused gains an additional attack per round for 8 rounds. Condemnation—The accused is exhausted for 8 rounds.
Murder: Absolution—When under 0 hit points, the accused automatically stabilizes for 1 minute. Condemnation—Whenever the redeemer confirms a critical hit with a melee weapon, the accused receives 2 additional points of bleed damage. This ability lasts for 8 rounds.
Theft/Robbery: Absolution—The accused gains a +4 bonus on his CMD to resist a dirty trick, disarm, drag or trip maneuver for 1 minute. Condemnation—The accused gains a -4 penalty on his CMD to resist a dirty trick, disarm, drag or trip maneuver for 1 minute.
Treason: Absolution—The accused gains a +4 bonus on checks to resist Diplomacy or Intimidate, and on Sense Motive checks to resist Bluff, for 1 minute. Condemnation—The accused gains a -4 penalty on checks to resist Diplomacy or Intimidate, and on Sense Motive checks to resist Bluff, for 1 minute.
Violence/Wrath: Absolution—The accused gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against fear effects for 1 minute. Condemnation—The accused is frightened for 8 rounds.
This replaces the 12th-level mercy.
Aura of Divine Wrath: At 14th level, whenever the redeemer or anybody else within 10 feet of her that’s attacking an enemy of her scores a critical hit, they ignore any damage reduction the target might have. This ability functions only while the redeemer is conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead. This replaces aura of faith.
Third Verdict: At 15th level, whenever a redeemer uses her verdict ability, she selects three different sins to charge. This only consumes one use of her judgment ability. This replaces the 15th-level mercy.
Aura of Righteousness: as paladin.
Lenient Amnesty: At 18th level, the redeemer can offer to an opponent under the effect of her verdict of condemnation and retaliation abilities an opportunity for becoming her ally. One such opponent who chooses to beg for mercy is granted all the bonuses of a verdict of absolution (only for one charged sin, even if the redeemer was using second and third verdict on him) for 1 hour per level of the redeemer, as long as he accepts to switch alliances and help her and/or her allies. If the opponent reneges his word and attacks or betrays the redeemer and/or her allies before the end of this truce, he loses all bonuses and receives again the penalties from the previous verdict of condemnation, doubled, for 1 hour per level of the redeemer. This replaces the 18th-level mercy.
True Redeemer: At 20th level, the redeemer can offer an instantaneous atonement to an opponent under the effect of her verdict of condemnation ability as a swift action. The inquisitor must declare that she will use this ability before a single melee (or ranged attack, if the foe is within 30 feet) against the target. If the attack hits, it deals damage normally and the target must choose to accept or not the redeemer’s offer. If he accepts, this works as the atonement spell, but has instantaneous duration and doesn’t requires material components. If the opponent refuses, he must make a Fortitude save or die. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the inquisitor's level + the inquisitor's Wisdom modifier. Regardless of whether or not the save is made, the target creature can’t be offered atonement again for 24 hours. Once this ability has been used, it cannot be used again for 1d4 rounds. This replaces holy champion.


@Vero/Raider: Just to clarify: somewhere else on the boards I came across some advice that bears repeating. It was a comment on simple archetype creation, but still... The thing about individual ability swaps is that they need to balance what they each replace as well as maintain balance across the whole class.

@Raider: I'm totally with you on your concerns, but my point re: standard multiclass inq/alc basically was a way of saying it can happen, how do we let this particular Inquisitor, the Grenade Zealot, have bombs? I really like the concept, it seems a simple approach without a lot of bells and whistles...

Silver Crusade

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

@Vero/Raider: Just to clarify: somewhere else on the boards I came across some advice that bears repeating. It was a comment on simple archetype creation, but still... The thing about individual ability swaps is that they need to balance what they each replace as well as maintain balance across the whole class.

@Raider: I'm totally with you on your concerns, but my point re: standard multiclass inq/alc basically was a way of saying it can happen, how do we let this particular Inquisitor, the Grenade Zealot, have bombs? I really like the concept, it seems a simple approach without a lot of bells and whistles...

perhaps instead of normal bombs or judgements he has Judgement Bombs. He starts with normal (but slow progressing) bombs and as he levels up he gains access to different judgements he an apply to his bombs and only his bomb.


@Bardess:
*Well, you certainly favour those walls of text don't you! Can you just make a paragraph break between each ability, makes it much easier to keep track of, especially when flicking from Retaliations back up to Verdicts, and back down again.

* More moral compass stuff eh? These bloody paladins and all their abilities. 0_0 There's so much going on here I'm going to make a tactical retreat and leave it for Elghinn! I'm not sure of the how the redeeming/sins etc actually plays out in first read through...

* My only note: change Justicer to Justiciar. I think a few of your latinisms are showing through but it's an interesting concept and a neat addition to your suite of morality archetypes/class tweaks - your Oracle of Calistria work, non-LG paladins stuff...

;)


Ok, you're right OSW. XD Even if I don't quite understand your "morality" reasoning- can you explain more clearly?
Here... I'll broke the text wall.

The Redeemer:

It’s not only and always good versus bad, it’s also guilty versus innocent. More often than not, it’s not so simple to discern where the right and wrong lie, and make sure that guilty ones be condemned –even if they’re good– and innocents be saved and protected– even if they’re evil. But there are some gods who don’t stand injustices even in good’s name. And the redeemers are their agents. If a good zealot massacres ruthlessly helpless enemies, he has to be judged. If an evil general is loyal and honorable, he deserves respect– and maybe could, in time, be redeemed and become an ally and a force for good.

Primary Class: Paladin
Secondary Class: Inquisitor
Skills: +6 from Inquisitor class, +4 ranks/level
BAB: full
Saves: GPG
Alignment: LG, LN, NG
Spells: as paladin, both lists
1) Aura of Good/Law, Detect Alignment, Stern Gaze, Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 1/day
2) Divine Grace, Track
3) Aura of Courage, Discern Lies
4) Channel Positive Energy, Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 2/day
5) Justicer Bond
6) Retaliation
7) Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 3/day
8) Aura of Resolve
9) Second Verdict
10) Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 4/day
11) Aura of Justice
12) Improved Retaliation
13) Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 5/day
14) Aura of Divine Wrath
15) Third Verdict
16) Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 6/day
17) Aura of Righteousness
18) Lenient Amnesty
19) Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution 7/day
20) True Redeemer

Aura of Good/Law (Ex): as paladin.
Detect Alignment (Sp): as inquisitor. This replaces Detect Evil.
Stern Gaze (Ex): as inquisitor. This and Track replace Divine Health.
Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution (Su): Starting at 1st level, a redeemer can lay an accusation upon an enemy as a swift action, charging him of a sin or a crime. Starting when the accusation is pronounced, if the respondent is guilty, the redeemer adds her Cha bonus (if any) to her attack rolls and adds her redeemer level to all damage rolls made against the target of her verdict of condemnation. The redeemer’s attacks automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
In addition, while the verdict of condemnation is in effect, the redeemer gains a deflection bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her AC against attacks made by her target.
However, if the redeemer’s target is innocent, he benefits of a verdict of absolution: the redeemer gains no combat bonus against the target and each hit of the redeemer’s weapon can’t harm him, instead healing him of 1d6 hit points (up to a maximum of 1d6 hit points of damage for every two levels of the redeemer). The redeemer can’t invoke a verdict upon someone that she knows to be innocent with the purpose of healing him; neither she can charge someone with a sin without clues (the redeemer can’t accuse a foe of adultery if she doesn’t reasonably believe that he could have committed it).
At 1st level, a redeemer can use this ability once per day. At 4th level and every three levels thereafter, the redeemer can use this ability one additional time per day.
Once activated, this ability lasts until the combat ends (at which point all of the effects immediately end) or until the opponent chooses to “beg for mercy”, recognizing his sin and surrendering. If the opponent is truly repentant, the verdict of condemnation bonuses end and all the damage he suffered from the verdict is converted to nonlethal damage. If the opponent attacks again the redeemer or her allies before the end of the combat, the verdict’s effect resume, as he shows not to be truly repented.
The redeemer must participate in the combat to activate the ability. If she is later frightened, panicked, paralyzed, stunned, unconscious, or otherwise prevented from participating in the combat, the ability does not end.
When the redeemer uses this ability, she must select one type of crime to charge on her opponent. She can’t change her charge to another type during the same combat. The verdict ability counts as both the smite evil and judgment class features for all feat prerequisites.
This replaces Lay on Hands and Smite.
Divine Grace (Su): as paladin.
Track (Ex): as inquisitor. This and Stern Gaze replace Divine Health.
Aura of Courage (Su): as paladin.
Discern Lies (Sp): as inquisitor. This replaces the 3rd-level mercy.
Channel Positive Energy (Su): When a redeemer reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to channel positive energy like a cleric. Using this ability consumes one use of her verdict ability. A redeemer uses her level as her effective cleric level when channeling positive energy. This is a Charisma-based ability.
Justicer Bond (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a redeemer forms a divine bond with her god. This bond can take one of two forms. Once the form is chosen, it cannot be changed.
The first type of bond allows the redeemer to enhance her weapon as a standard action by calling upon the aid of a celestial spirit for 1 minute per redeemer level. When called, the spirit causes the weapon to shed light as a torch. At 5th level, this spirit grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5, or they can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: bane (evil humanoids, outsiders, or undead only), defending, disruption, flaming, flaming burst, frost, holy, icy burst, keen, merciful, and speed. Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's cost (see Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities). These bonuses are added to any properties the weapon already has, but duplicate abilities do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. The bonus and properties granted by the spirit are determined when the spirit is called and cannot be changed until the spirit is called again. The celestial spirit imparts no bonuses if the weapon is held by anyone other than the paladin but resumes giving bonuses if returned to the redeemer. These bonuses apply to only one end of a double weapon. A redeemer can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels beyond 5th, to a total of four times per day at 17th level.
If a weapon bonded with a celestial spirit is destroyed, the redeemer loses the use of this ability for 30 days, or until she gains a level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the redeemer takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
The second type of bond allows a redeemer to gain the service of an outsider servant. This functions as summon monster III, except the duration is permanent and the redeemer can only gain the service of a single creature and that creature must either have the good and/or lawful subtypes or it must be a celestial or resolute animal. Once selected, the choice is set, but it may be changed whenever the redeemer gains a level. Upon reaching 7th level, and every two levels thereafter, the level of the summon monster spell increases by one, to a maximum of summon monster IX at 17th level. Once per day, as a full-round action, a redeemer may magically call his servant to his side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the redeemer’s level. The servant immediately appears adjacent to the redeemer. A redeemer can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level.
At 11th level, the servant gains the advanced template. At 15th level, a redeemer’s servant gains spell resistance equal to the redeemer’s level + 11.
Should the redeemer’s servant die or be banished, the redeemer may not summon another servant for 30 days or until he gains a redeemer level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the redeemer takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
This replaces divine bond.
Retaliation (Su): At 3rd level, a redeemer can add a retaliation effect to her verdict ability. This effect is a punition or reward appropriate for the sin charged on the accused foe. The redeemer must state that she’s going to use retaliation before speaking her verdict. If the foe is guilty of that sin, he suffers the listed penalty in addition to the smiting effect of the verdict of condemnation. If he’s innocent, he receives the listed bonus in addition to the healing for a verdict of absolution. A guilty opponent who begs for mercy has the retaliation’s penalties relieved, as long as he doesn’t attack again the redeemer or her allies during that combat.
The following is a list of sins charged and their retaliation effects:

Adultery/Lust:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against charm effects and abilities based on fascination or physical attractiveness (such as a nymph’s blinding beauty and stunning glance abilities) for 1 minute.
Condemnation— The accused gains a -4 penalty on saving throws against charm effects and effects that fascinate for 1 minute.
Deception:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +2 bonus on Perception and Sense Motive checks for 1 minute.
Condemnation— The accused gains a -2 penalty on Perception and Sense Motive checks for 1 minute.
Greed:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +2 bonus on attack rolls until the end of your next turn.
Condemnation— The accused gains a -2 penalty on attack and damage rolls until the end of your next turn.
Impiety:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against divine magic for 1 minute.
Condemnation— The accused gains a -2 penalty on saving throws against divine magic for 1 minute.
Indifference/Laziness:
Absolution—
The accused gains an additional attack per round for 4 rounds.
Condemnation— The accused is fatigued for 8 rounds.
Murder:
Absolution—
When under 0 hit points, the accused automatically stabilizes for 1 minute.
Condemnation— Whenever the redeemer confirms a critical hit with a melee weapon, the accused receives 2 additional points of bleed damage. This ability lasts for 4 rounds.
Theft/Robbery:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +2 bonus on his CMD to resist a dirty trick, disarm, drag or trip maneuver for 1 minute.
Condemnation— The accused gains a -2 penalty on his CMD to resist a dirty trick, disarm, drag or trip maneuver for 1 minute.
Treason:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +2 bonus on checks to resist Diplomacy or Intimidate, and on Sense Motive checks to resist Bluff, for 1 minute.
Condemnation— The accused gains a -2 penalty on checks to resist Diplomacy or Intimidate, and on Sense Motive checks to resist Bluff, for 1 minute.
Violence/Wrath:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against fear effects for 1 minute.
Condemnation— The accused is shaken for 8 rounds.

This replaces the 6th-level mercy.
Aura of Resolve (Su): as paladin.
Second Verdict (Ex): At 9th level, whenever a redeemer uses her verdict ability, she can charge her foe for two different sins, instead of one. This only consumes one use of her verdict ability. This replaces the 9th-level mercy.
Aura of Justice (Su): as paladin.
Improved Retaliation (Su): At 12th level, whenever the redeemer uses her retaliation ability, the bonuses and penalties caused by the verdict increase in the following ways.

Adultery/Lust:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against charm effects and abilities based on fascination or physical attractiveness (such as a nymph’s blinding beauty and stunning glance abilities) for 2 minutes.
Condemnation— The accused gains a -4 penalty on saving throws against charm effects and effects that fascinate for 2 minutes.
Deception:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +4 bonus on Perception and Sense Motive checks for 1 minute.
Condemnation— The accused gains a -4 penalty on Perception and Sense Motive checks for 1 minute.
Greed:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +4 bonus on attack rolls until the end of your next turn.
Condemnation— The accused gains a -4 penalty on attack and damage rolls until the end of your next turn.
Impiety:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against divine magic for 1 minute.
Condemnation— The accused gains a -4 penalty on saving throws against divine magic for 1 minute.
Indifference/Laziness:
Absolution—
The accused gains an additional attack per round for 8 rounds.
Condemnation— The accused is exhausted for 8 rounds.
Murder:
Absolution—
When under 0 hit points, the accused automatically stabilizes for 1 minute.
Condemnation— Whenever the redeemer confirms a critical hit with a melee weapon, the accused receives 2 additional points of bleed damage. This ability lasts for 8 rounds.
Theft/Robbery:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +4 bonus on his CMD to resist a dirty trick, disarm, drag or trip maneuver for 1 minute. Condemnation— The accused gains a -4 penalty on his CMD to resist a dirty trick, disarm, drag or trip maneuver for 1 minute.
Treason:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +4 bonus on checks to resist Diplomacy or Intimidate, and on Sense Motive checks to resist Bluff, for 1 minute.
Condemnation— The accused gains a -4 penalty on checks to resist Diplomacy or Intimidate, and on Sense Motive checks to resist Bluff, for 1 minute.
Violence/Wrath:
Absolution—
The accused gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against fear effects for 1 minute.
Condemnation— The accused is frightened for 8 rounds.

This replaces the 12th-level mercy.
Aura of Divine Wrath (Ex): At 14th level, whenever the redeemer or anybody else within 10 feet of her that’s attacking an enemy of her scores a critical hit, they ignore any damage reduction the target might have. This ability functions only while the redeemer is conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead. This replaces aura of faith.
Third Verdict (Ex): At 15th level, whenever a redeemer uses her verdict ability, she selects three different sins to charge. This only consumes one use of her judgment ability. This replaces the 15th-level mercy.
Aura of Righteousness (Su): as paladin.
Lenient Amnesty (Su): At 18th level, the redeemer can offer to an opponent under the effect of her verdict of condemnation and retaliation abilities an opportunity for becoming her ally. One such opponent who chooses to beg for mercy is granted all the bonuses of a verdict of absolution (only for one charged sin, even if the redeemer was using second and third verdict on him) for 1 hour per level of the redeemer, as long as he accepts to switch alliances and help her and/or her allies. If the opponent reneges his word and attacks or betrays the redeemer and/or her allies before the end of this truce, he loses all bonuses and receives again the penalties from the previous verdict of condemnation, doubled, for 1 hour per level of the redeemer. This replaces the 18th-level mercy.
True Redeemer (Su): At 20th level, the redeemer can offer an instantaneous atonement to an opponent under the effect of her verdict of condemnation ability as a swift action. The inquisitor must declare that she will use this ability before a single melee (or ranged attack, if the foe is within 30 feet) against the target. If the attack hits, it deals damage normally and the target must choose to accept or not the redeemer’s offer. If he accepts, this works as the atonement spell, but has instantaneous duration and doesn’t requires material components. If the opponent refuses, he must make a Fortitude save or die. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the inquisitor's level + the inquisitor's Wisdom modifier. Regardless of whether or not the save is made, the target creature can’t be offered atonement again for 24 hours. Once this ability has been used, it cannot be used again for 1d4 rounds. This replaces holy champion.

May you point me to my "latinisms"? (I'm Latin after all...) Really "Justiciar" is more American than "Justicer"? I didn't know.


Maybe weaken the bomb progression from 1d6 to 1d3.


I have some tweaks in the works Vero, but won't get it to you for a few hours. So, just be patient...I think you'll like them.


@Bardess:

@Language: Justicer is a strange word in English, wherever it is used. I've never seen it before in my life. I'm pretty sure Justiciar is the English word you are looking for.

Punition: never come across this one before either. "Punitive effect" or plain old "punishment" will do.

@Morality: This MCA relies on a heavily Christian stance on ethics, morality, crime and punishment. The seven sins you present are the classis Seven Deadly Sins, which is fine as long as you accept them in their limited RP scope. I find the tacking on of mechanical effects of retaliations and absolution a bit hit and miss:
Why is greed tied to combat attacks? Theft/Robbery and Treason mechanics don't seem to fit either.

Murder and Lust and Violence on the other hand are all very good.

As a non-Christian I personally find the notion of Seven Deadly Sins limited in scope, too specific OR too general and faintly repugnant to human agency and (strangely enough) notions of social manumission, personal evolution and individusl redemption. ;) BUT, if you can clarify them here they should work a treat!

@Verdict of Condemnation/Absolution: While I think this is a really nest idea I'm unclear on how it actually works. Are the crimes linked to the sins presented in Retaliation? It seems they are because you mention them as having to be called before a verdict is pronounced...

I'd also change the name to Charge of Condemnation, until the charge is proven that's all it is, the verdict comes later with the first hit I'd imagine.

Who decides if the foe is guilty? The "GM as God" or the Redeemer?

If Verdicts aren't tied to the sins presented in Retaliation then how broad can they be? Can I charge a bunch of gnolls with being evil and smelly and get a bonus, or a specific individual with being left-handed? If you can clear this up with some examples that would be great!

@Retaliation: Apart from my points above in Morality I'd chane the name of this one to Wrath or Punishment or something similar... I know you have Violence/Wrath but still...

@Lenient Amnesty: I really like this ability. It's a great concept.

I hope that all helps. It's a big brave idea, it just needs clarification!


@Vero: Here's my tweaks on the Grenade Zealot. We'll see what you think.

Grenade Zealot:

Primary Class: Inquisitor.

Secondary Class: Alchemist.

Hit Dice: d8.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The grenade zealot may select three alchemist skills to add to his class skills in addition to his normal inquisitor class skills. The grenade zealot gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A grenade zealot is proficient with all simple weapons and bombs, plus the hand crossbow, longbow, repeating crossbow, shortbow, and the favored weapon of her deity. She is also proficient with light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).

Spellcasting: The grenade zealot cast divine spells from the inquisitor spell list, and otherwise learns, prepares, and cast spells like as an inquisitor equal to her grenade zealot level. He also receives additional spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score.

Alchemy (Su): Beginning at first level, a grenade zealot gains the alchemist's alchemy class ability, allowing her to create mundane alchemy items and bombs only. She gains a competence bonus equal to 1/2 her grenade zealot level on Craft (alchemy) checks when crafting these items. This replaces stern gaze.

I wasn't sure when you included potions in the alchemy list of things she can make, whether you meant just potions, or extracts. Generally, extract and normal spellcasting cannot be used simultaneously in the same MCA. So, I assumed you meant being able to make potions. I also had this ability swap out stern gaze instead of domain.

Brew Potions (Ex): At 1st level, a grenade zealot gains Brew Potion as a bonus feat. This replaces monster lore.

Since you seemed to want to make potions, I took out Throw Anything and put in Brew Potion instead. I think this is more useful than the Throw Anything feat for this MCA. It already has more weapons at its disposal than an alchemist anyways, and the bombs to me are a secondary attack form. I also swapped it for monster lore.

Bombs (Su): At 1st level, a grenade zealot gains the ability to create bombs. This functions like alchemist bombs except that a grenade zealot’s bombs deal 1d6 points of damage at 1s level, and an additional 1d6 points of damage at 4th level and every four levels thereafter, to a maximum of 6d6 at 20th level. This replaces domain.

I just called this bombs instead of grenades, just to keep in line with what we tend to do with other MCAs. I reduced the damage to 6d6, since I don't feel the domain ability is worth 10d6 bombs. But, like you suggested too, reducing the damage die to d4 is another option. 6d6 = 36, 10d4 = 40, so it's not too much different either way, except you get a higher minimum with the 10d4. So either way would be good. We can hammer the specifics out either way

Teamwork Feat: This is exactly like the inquisitor ability of the same name, except that whenever the grenade zealot could select a teamwork feat, she can select an alchemist discovery that she qualifies for. A grenade zealot may only select bomb related discoveries.

Again, just called it teamwork feats, and then added the choice to select discoveries instead. This is what we tend to do. Allows for what ever type of build the player might want.

Swift Alchemy (Ex): At 3rd level, a grenade zealot gains the alchemist’s swift alchemy ability. This ability replaces solo tactics.

added the swap info, didn't have it in the original. I took out Instant Alchemy, I didn't think it was necessary, but also, you hadn't swapped anything for it, and I didn't see anything in the inquisitor abilities that was really worth it. I also removed Grand Discovery. If you want to include it, you either need to remove the inquisitor's 20th level capstone ability, or create a new 20th level capstone that is specific to the MCA. You can't have both capstones from both classes. :D

Shared Verdict (Su): Starting at 4th level, a grenade zealot can choose to deal nonlethal damage with his bomb once per day, and an additional time per day every six levels thereafter. This nonlethal damage is equal to his bomb damage and affects both his target and all creatures adjacent to the target.

At 9th level, a grenade zealot may select one of the following conditions to add to his bomb’s effect: dazzled, fatigued, shaken, or sicken. Once chosen, it cannot be changed. Whenever a grenade zealot uses his verdict ability, the target and all creatures adjacent to it must make a Will save (DC 10 + the grenade zealot’s level + the grenade zealot’s Wisdom modifier). If the Will save fails, the creature gains the condition for a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom modifier. For every five levels after 9th, a grenade zealot may select another condition. A grenade zealot may only apply one condition to any use of the verdict ability.

At 14th level, a grenade zealot adds the following conditions to those he can select: blinded, deafened, exhausted, frightened, and nauseated. This ability replaces judgment 2/day, 4/day and 6/day.

I added this ability in to make the bomb ability more versatile, and grant the bombs a more "inqisitorial" function. Swaps out a few uses of the judgment ability, but I think it would be useful in combat, and its quite flavorful to the MCA.

Table: Grenade Zealot
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th

1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Alchemy, bomb 1d6, brew potions, judgment 1/day, orisons 1 — — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Cunning initiative, detect alignment, track 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Swift alchemy, teamwork feat 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Bomb 2d6, verdict 1/day 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Bane, discern lie 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Teamwork feat 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Judgment 2/day 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Bomb 3d6, second judgment 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Teamwork feat 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Verdict 2/day 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Stalwart 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Bomb 4d6, greater bane, teamwork feat 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Judgment 3/day 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Exploit weakness 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Team discovery 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Bomb 5d6, third judgment, verdict 3/day 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Slayer 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Teamwork feat 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Judgment 4/day 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Bomb 6d6, true judgment 5 5 5 5 5 5

@Bardess and OSW: I'll take a look at the Redeemer tomorrow.


Wow...awesome!!! I had a lot of jumbled-up ideas for the class and had a hard time trying to decide on what should and should not be in the class. I guess it is just because I do not have enough experience making MCAs, but now I have a better idea of what they need to look like.Quick question though,wont the Grenade Zealot need to have solo tactics to fully use the teamwork feats?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com wrote wrote:
Solo Tactics (Ex) At 3rd level, all of the inquisitor’s allies are treated as if they possessed the same teamwork feats as the inquisitor for the purpose of determining whether the inquisitor receives a bonus from her teamwork feats. Her allies do not receive any bonuses from these feats unless they actually possess the feats themselves. The allies’ positioning and actions must still meet the prerequisites listed in the teamwork feat for the inquisitor to receive the listed bonus.

?


@Elghinn: Nice work on presenting the rationale for your choices. I think that helps everyone quite a bit...


Oooh. Grenadier looks MUCH better now.
Still against giving Inquisitor bombs, but this is looking a lot less... 'explosive' now.

Cutting out some uses of judgement is good, but Shared Verdict might be a bit much. An idea? Combine the two. 'Judgebooms' (working name) could have such effects as having +wis to damage, or causing Shaken. 'GavelGrenades' (working name) would then solve a lot of the issue of having a few dozen things you could do every round with this class.

Of course, 'Dreddkasplosions' (working name) would stick to the same number of uses per day.

Thoughts?


Well, OSW, I was thinking of Dante's Inferno more than the traditional Seven Deadly Sins (which are soooo covered in Pathfinder anyway-just see the Seven Swords). "Retaliation" comes from there too (in Italian it's "Contrappasso", and I WAS tempted to leave it this way). For example, Deception and Treason are in the Inferno but not in the classic Seven Sins list. ^-^ I sometimes had to be a little creative with bonus and penalties (and I meant that "the GM/God" should decide if the accused is guilty), but Greed could certainly give bonus/penalties on grab or disarm maneuvers instead, for example.
Unfortunately I don't always know or remember English jurist terms. I didn't know about "justiciar", while "punition" for "punishment" was, I confess, a slip. But these are just lexical matters, after all. Thanks for your feedback!


@Bardess: No worries, I'm always happy to provide feedback if I can! And, you see, I don't even know my Sins!

I think Elghinn can take your Redeemer further...

@Raider: I like the Wis damage and shaken effects of judgebooms. Nice flavour for explosion effects...
Gavel Grenades: lol!


@Vero:

Good point on solo tactics. Let's swap out Cunning Initiative instead, and leave Swift Alchemy at 3rd level.

@Raider:

How's this? Just adds bomb-only judgmentd to the ability.

Judgment (Su): This is exactly like the inquisitor ability of the same name, except that at 4th level or higher, whenever a grenade zealot uses his judgment ability, he can select one of the following new judgments that affect only his bombs. Any saves or checks related to these judgments have a DC equal to 10 + the grenade zealot’s level + the grenade zealot’s Wisdom modifier.

Damning Testimony: The target of a grenade zealot’s bombs must make a Will save or become shaken for a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom modifier.

Fearful Indictment: The target of a grenade zealot’s bombs must make a Will save or become frightened for a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom modifier.

Final Verdict: The target of a grenade zealot’s bombs must make a Will save or become staggered for a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom modifier.

Stay of Execution: The grenade zealot deals nonlethal bomb damage to his target and all creatures adjacent to it. The target must also make a Fortitude save or be knocked prone. When using this judgment, a grenade zealot’s bomb does not deal splash damage.

Unshakable Guilt: The grenade zealot adds his Wisdom modifier to his bomb damage instead of his Intelligence modifier, including splash damage.


Yeh that seems to be more balanced. Also quick question, would bane work on the bombs and should the mutagen discovery be open to Grenade Zealots? Maybe allow only cognatogens instead of mutagens?


Hmm, Bane specifically states "This ability only functions while the inquisitor wields the weapon. If dropped or taken, the weapon resumes granting this ability if it is returned to the inquisitor before the duration expires."

I would say no, since throwing would be like dropping. Thus bows could be used, but thrown daggers wouldn't. Thoughts anyone else?

As for the Mutagen discovery. I think restricting to bomb-related discoveries id the way to go. Although it is an Alc MCA, mutagens, even congotegens don't quite seem in flavor with it. There are spells to enhance abilities, like Bull's Strength, etc., but I'm not sure if an inquisitor gets any of those.


Well since the base class is an inquisitor, maybe we should keep it to bomb only discoveries, just in case we want to make an Alchemist that focuses on "mutated" or mutagenic Inquisitor abilities.


@Bardess:

You could also make the Redeemer sort of like an Arbiter of their chosen God or Goddess, who compares the actions of the accused to the beliefs, core principles, or domains that the Redeemer's God or Goddess stands for, and then punishes (or rewards) them accordingly.


I agree no mutagens for Grenade Redeemer, both because there is enough going on and as Vero said to save it up for some sweet sweet mutated inquisitor action...i'm definitely interested in doing that one if you aren't Vero!
Cognatogens would be okay but probably simpler without them either...


I'm interested in seeing what you would make Wolf!


Bardess, I'll have to get to the redeemer tomorrow. Since it's a Paladin/Inquisitor MCA, I would suggest call it the Merciful Redeemer or Merciful Judicator. I'll get to the rest tomorrow.


@Vero:
This was my idea too. And to answer OSW- the Redeemer should charge the accused of SPECIFIC crimes. "You lowly being- you was the one who killed the Duke!" or: "I formally accuse you of mistreating your spouse!" (But this doesn't work if he has not clues or a reasonable hypothesis, as stated).

@Elghinn:
Why not? They're both cool names.


@Bardess/Elghinn: I like Merciful Redeemer, seeing as there is plenty of absolution and leniency in the flavor and abilities, and it's closer to Bardess' original name.

@Bardess: thanks for the clarification on specific crimes...


Ahhh...after much perplexing and reworking, may I present the newly reworked Merciful Redeemer (previously the Redeemer).

@Bardess: I believe I kept the flavor, abilities, and other aspects of the original MCA intact, but felt it could benefits from some simplification and streamlining. I also felt that some of the abilities were "clunky" and so redesigned them to functions within the established mechanics of other paladin abilities, such as the Hand of Judgment (lay on hands), Verdict (mercy), and Aura of Clemency (aura of justice). You will notice the MCA has a bit more freedom with its Hand of Judgment and Verdict abilities. This is to allow for ease of game play and ability to fit into more situations. Your Retaliation and Verdict abilities seemed too restrictive to be of any use outside of a VERY narrow scope, setting, or adventure path. So I broadened its functionality so that it can be useful in more general situations. It will likely require some final tweaks, but I hope you like the changes. I think you will...??? I'm hoping the other MCP Crew members will jump in on this one to tighten it up, because I really like this one too.

WARNING: WALL OF TEXT

MERCIFUL REDEEMER:

The difference between good and evil is easy to ascertain, but concepts such as right and wrong are often filled areas of grey. Certain gods don’t tolerate any form of injustices, even if they are performed in the name of goodness, and so they rely upon special servants called redeemers, imbued with the divine power of discernment, to convict and imprison the guilty, and protect or free the innocent if they are wrongfully condemned. According to the redeemer’s creed, individuals are judged only upon the actions they perform, and not their thoughts or moral outlook. Thus, in the eyes of a redeemer, a righteous zealot who ruthlessly massacres helpless enemies must be brought to justice, while a knowingly malevolent general who serves his lord in loyalty and honor must be given his due respect. However, despite their often logical and unemotional detachment from the pleas of condemned, redeemers are ever ready to grant leniency to the truly repentant in hopes that they will become a powerful force for good in the world.

I reworked your flavor blurp.

Primary Class: Paladin.

Secondary Class: Inquisitor.

Alignment: Lawful good, neutral good, or lawful neutral.

Hit Dice: d10.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The merciful redeemer may select six inquisitor skills to add to her class skills in addition to her normal paladin class skills. The merciful redeemer gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A merciful redeemer is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, the favored weapon of her deity, with all types of armor, (heavy, light, and medium), and with shields (except tower shields).

Spellcasting: The merciful redeemer cast divine spells from the paladin spell list, and adds the following inquisitor spells to her list. These spells are cast as divine spells of the indicated level: 1st level–bane, brand*, burst bonds*, forbid action**, forced quiet**, interrogation**, lend judgment**, peacebond†, persuasive goad**, tireless pursuit*, wrath*; 2nd level–align weapon, blood biography*, bloodhound*, castigate*, confess*, follow aura*, retribution*, terrible remorse*, witness**; 3rd level–brand (greater)*, denounce*, find quarry†, interrogation (greater)**, judgment light†, leashed shackles*; 4th level–atonement, castigate (mass)*, coward’s lament*, lend greater judgment**, rebuke*, shared wrath*.

A merciful redeemer otherwise prepares and cast spells like as a paladin equal to her merciful redeemer level. She also receives additional spells per day if she has a high Charisma score. (Advanced Player’s Guide*, Ultimate Magic**, Ultimate Combat†)

We'll likely need to pare down this list, but these were the most related spells from the inquisitor spell list.

Aura (Ex): A merciful redeemer has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to her own alignment–aura of good and law (lawful good), aura of good (neutral good), aura of law (lawful neutral). This ability otherwise functions as and replaces aura of good.

Detect Alignment (Sp): At 1st level, a merciful redeemer gains the inquisitor’s detect alignment ability. This ability replaces detect evil.

Stern Gaze (Ex): At 1st level, a merciful redeemer gains the inquisitor’s stern gaze ability. This ability and track replace divine health.

Hand of Judgment (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a merciful redeemer can proclaim a preliminary judgment upon a creature (including herself) a number of times equal to 1/2 her merciful redeemer level plus her Charisma modifier. With one use of this ability, a merciful redeemer can proclaim the creature as either guilty or innocent through the merits of its most recent actions. If a merciful redeemer proclaims the creature as innocent, the creature heals 1d6 hit points of damage for every two merciful redeemer levels she possesses. Using this ability is a standard action, unless the merciful redeemer targets herself, in which case it is a swift action. Despite the name of this ability, a merciful redeemer only needs one free hand to use this ability.

Alternatively, if a merciful redeemer proclaims the creature as guilty, she deals 1d6 points of temporary damage for every two levels the merciful redeemer possesses to the target. Using hand of judgment in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Creatures that are proclaimed guilty receive a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the merciful redeemer’s level + the merciful redeemer’s Charisma modifier) for half damage. This ability replaces lay on hands.

As I said, I revamped this to work within the Lay on Hands mechanics, and made the effect more general.

Track (Ex): At 2nd level, a merciful redeemer gains the inquisitor’s track ability.

Channel Positive Energy (Su): This is exactly like the paladin’s channel energy ability, except that a merciful redeemer consumes two uses of her hand of judgment ability.

Verdict (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, whenever a merciful redeemer uses her hand of judgment ability, she can select one verdict to pronounce upon her target. This only consumes one use of her hand of judgment ability. Each verdict adds an effect to the merciful redeemer’s hand of judgment ability. Whenever the merciful redeemer uses hand of judgment against one target, the target also receives the additional effect from either the verdict of condemnation or the verdict of absolution, according to the target’s guilt or innocence of the declared offense. This choice is made when hand of judgment is used. If the target is innocent of the declared offense, it is granted a verdict of absolution and may freely accept or reject its associated benefits.

Alternatively, if the target is guilty of the declared offense, it receives a verdict of condemnation and must make a successful Will save to avoid the effect. If the save is successful, the target takes the damage as normal, but not the effects of declared offense’s associated verdict of condemnation. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the merciful redeemer’s level + the merciful redeemer’s Charisma modifier. A merciful redeemer can end any verdict (condemnation or absolution) as a free action. A verdict whether condemnation or absolution remains in effect for 1 round per level of the merciful redeemer. This ability replaces the 3rd-level mercy.

At 3rd level, the merciful redeemer can select from the following offenses and their initial verdicts.

Adultery/Lust: Verdict of Absolution—The target gains a +1 bonus on saving throws against charm effects and abilities based on fascination or physical attractiveness, such as a nymph’s blinding beauty and stunning glance abilities; Verdict of Condemnation—The target receives a –1 penalty on saving throws against charm and fascinate spells or effects.
Assassination/Murder: Verdict of Absolution—The target automatically stabilizes when reduced to 0 hit points and gains; Verdict of Condemnation—The target takes 1 additional point of bleeding damage whenever a critical hit is confirmed against him.
Blasphemy/Impiety: Verdict of Absolution—The target gains a +1 bonus on saving throws against divine magic; Verdict of Condemnation—The target receives a –1 penalty on saving throws against divine magic for 1 minute.
Burglary/Theft: Verdict of Absolution— The target gains a +1 bonus on his CMD to resist any dirty trick, disarm, drag or trip combat maneuver; Verdict of Condemnation—The target receives a –1 penalty on his CMD to resist any dirty trick, disarm, drag or trip combat maneuver.
Deception/Fraud: Verdict of Absolution—The target gains a +1 bonus on all Perception and Sense Motive skill checks; Verdict of Condemnation— The target receives a –1 penalty on all Perception and Sense Motive skill checks.
Gluttony/Greed: Verdict of Absolution—The target gains a +1 bonus on all Appraise and Craft skill checks; Verdict of Condemnation—The target receives a –1 penalty on all Appraise and Craft skill checks.
Laziness/Sloth: Verdict of Absolution—The target gains a +1 bonus on all checks and saves made when running or holding his breath, to resist nonlethal damage from exhaustion, forced marches, hot or cold environments, starvations or thirst, or resist damage from suffocation; Verdict of Condemnation—The target takes a –1 penalty to his Strength and Dexterity.
Sedition/Treason: Verdict of Absolution—The target gains a +1 bonus when making opposing skill checks against Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skill checks; Verdict of Condemnation—The target receives a –1 bonus when making opposing skill checks against Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skill checks.
• [i]Violence/Wrath[i//i]: Verdict of Absolution—The target gains a +1 bonus on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks; Verdict of Condemnation—The target receives a –1 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

I changed or added some of the words used in the offense headings to make them more simple for players/GMs to understand what the offense encompasses, since I know English is not your first language. I also wanted to keep it in line with your idea of the Seven Deadly Sins. I also reduced the bonuses and penalties to +1/-1 for the 3rd level verdicts, to keep them in line with the Inquisitor's Judgment ability, and the Paladin's Mercy ability. Then, with Improved Verdict and Greater Verdict, these bonuses/penalties increase by 1 at each increment, to a max of 3 for Greater Verdict. Otherwise, ending up with +4 may have been OP. But we'll see what the others think. We may be able to increase the increment a bit to +1/-1, +2/-2, and +4/-4. We'll seee after the enxt round of discussions.

Divine Bond (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a merciful redeemer forms a divine bond with her god. This bond can take one of two forms. Once the form is chosen, it cannot be changed.

The first type of bond allows a merciful redeemer to form a bond with her weapon, and is exactly like a paladin’s divine weapon bond.

The second type of bond allows a merciful redeemer to gain the service of a fiendish servant. This functions as summon monster III, except the duration is permanent and the merciful redeemer can only gain the service of a single creature and that creature must either have the good and/or lawful subtypes or it must be a celestial or resolute animal, as appropriate for her alignment. Once selected, the choice is set, but it may be changed whenever the merciful redeemer gains a level. Upon reaching 7th level, and every two levels thereafter, the level of the summon monster spell increases by one, to a maximum of summon monster IX at 17th level. Once per day, as a full-round action, a merciful redeemer may magically call her servant to her side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the merciful redeemer’s level. The servant immediately appears adjacent to the merciful redeemer. A merciful redeemer can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level.

At 11th level, the servant gains the advanced template. At 15th level, a merciful redeemer’s servant gains spell resistance equal to the merciful redeemer’s level + 11.

Should the merciful redeemer’s servant die or be banished, the merciful redeemer may not summon another servant for 30 days or until she gains a merciful redeemer level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the merciful redeemer takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces divine bond.

Discern Lies (Sp): At 6th level, a merciful merciful redeemer gains the inquisitor’s discern lies ability. This replaces the paladin’s 6th-level mercy.

Improved Verdict (Su): At 9th level, whenever a merciful redeemer’s verdict or absolution grants a bonus, that bonus increases to +2.
Likewise, whenever a merciful redeemer’s verdict or condemnation bestows a penalty, that penalty increases to –2.

If a merciful redeemer pronounces a verdict of absolution against assassination/murder, the target is automatically stabilized when reduced to 0 hit points and gains 1 additional hit points. If a merciful redeemer pronounces a verdict of condemnation against assassination/murder, the target’s bleed damage increases to 2. This ability replaces 9th-level mercy.

See Verdict explanation.

Aura of Clemency (Su): At 11th level, a merciful redeemer may grant clemency to any opponent willing to surrender and become her ally. During this temporary alliance, the opponent must fight alongside the merciful redeemer and her allies. While this truce is in effect, the opponent gains the benefits of one verdict of absolution of the merciful redeemer’s choice as long as the opponent remains within 10 feet of the merciful redeemer. If an opponent moves beyond 10 feet of the merciful redeemer, the benefits of the verdict of absolution cease, but recommence once within 10 feet of the merciful redeemer.

Should the opponent betray the merciful redeemer or her allies, or in any way break this truce, the benefits of the chosen verdict of absolution immediately end, and the opposing verdict of condemnation is pronounced upon the opponent instead. Moving beyond 10 feet of the merciful redeemer is not treated as breaking the truce. The effects of a merciful redeemer’s chosen verdict of absolution or its opposing verdict of condemnation remains in effect for a number of minutes equal to 1/2 the merciful redeemer’s level + the merciful redeemer’s Charisma modifier from the time the alliance is made, or the truce is broken. This ability replaces aura of justice.

Again, I wanted to work the flavor and ability into an already proven mechanic, and had it replace Aura of Justice, since it fit the best with that mechanic, and its a more flavorful ability than Aura of Justice is for this particular MCA.

Second Verdict (Ex): At 12th level, whenever a merciful redeemer uses her hand of judgment ability, she selects two different verdicts, instead of one. This only consumes one use of her hand of judgment ability. As a swift action, she can change one of these judgments to another type. This ability replaces the 12th–level mercy.

Aura of Divine Wrath (Ex): At 14th level, a paladin's weapons are treated as chaotic, evil, good, and lawful for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction of any creature that is the target of her verdict ability. Any attack made within 10 feet of her against the target of her verdict ability is treated likewise aligned for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. This ability functions only while the merciful redeemer is conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces aura of faith.

Greater Verdict (Su): At 15th level, whenever a merciful redeemer’s verdict or absolution grants a bonus, that bonus increases to +3. Likewise, whenever a merciful redeemer’s verdict or condemnation bestows a penalty, that penalty increases to –3.

If a merciful redeemer pronounces a verdict of absolution against assassination/murder, the target is automatically stabilized when reduced to 0 hit points and gains 2 additional hit points. If a merciful redeemer pronounces a verdict of condemnation against assassination/murder, the target’s bleed damage increases to 3. This ability replaces 15th-level mercy.

See Verdict explanation.

Third Verdict (Ex): At 18th level, whenever a merciful redeemer uses her hand of judgment ability, she selects three different verdicts, instead of two. This only consumes one use of her hand of judgment ability. As a swift action, she can change one of these judgments to another type. This ability replaces the 18th–level mercy.

True Redemption (Su): At 20th level, a merciful redeemer can grant atonement (as the spell) to any opponent under the effects of her indictment ability, as a swift action. The merciful redeemer must make a single melee attack (or a ranged attack if the target is within 30 feet) against the target, but she must declare she is using this ability prior to making the attack roll. If the attack hits, she deals damage normally, but the target must choose to accept or reject atonement. If the target accepts, the atonement takes immediate effect and requires no material components. If the target rejects, it must make a Fortitude save or die. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the merciful redeemer’s level + the merciful redeemer’s Charisma modifier. Regardless of whether or not the save is made, that creature is immune to that merciful redeemer’s true redemption for 24 hours. True redemption may be used once every 1d4 rounds. This ability replaces holy champion.

Table: Merciful Redeemer
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th

1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Aura, detect alignment, stern gaze, smite evil 1/day — — — —
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Divine grace, hand of judgment, track — — — —
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Aura of courage, verdict — — — —
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Channel positive energy, smite evil 2/day 0 — — —
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Divine bond 1 — — —
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Discern lies 1 — — —
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Smite evil 3/day 1 0 — —
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Aura of resolve 1 1 — —
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Improved Verdict 2 1 — —
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Smite evil 4/day 2 1 0 —
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Aura of clemency 2 1 1 —
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Second verdict 2 2 1 —
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Smite evil 5/day 3 2 1 0
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Aura of divine wrath 3 2 1 1
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Greater verdict 3 2 2 1
16th +16/+11/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Smite evil 6/day 3 3 2 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Aura of righteousness 4 3 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Third verdict 4 3 2 2
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Smite evil 7/day 4 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 True redemption 4 4 3 3


At first sight, your changes seem very flavorful and respectful of my original idea (though here and there the text need a little more rewording- see "fiendish servant" under Divine Bond).
Still, I liked the idea of the sinner "begging for mercy" (it seemed very fit for a paladin/inquisitor), and I found right also incorporating somewhat Bane into Divine Bond.
The rest just feels WOW. ^-^


Bardess wrote:

At first sight, your changes seem very flavorful and respectful of my original idea (though here and there the text need a little more rewording- see "fiendish servant" under Divine Bond).

Still, I liked the idea of the sinner "begging for mercy" (it seemed very fit for a paladin/inquisitor), and I found right also incorporating somewhat Bane into Divine Bond.
The rest just feels WOW. ^-^

I hope your feeling of WOW is a good thing. Yeah, I missed the Bane for weapon bond, that's easy to add in. Fixed the "fiendish servant" problem. As for the begging for mercy thing, that may be hard to incorporate into the MCA. It's a nice idea, but mechanically difficult to incorporate, and is more of a roleplaying detail. Let's see what the others think. Maybe one of them can come up with a good way to incorporate the "beg for mercy" idea.


Ok I have a question about the Dead Shaman MCA, why does the GM gain control of the Dead Shaman at level 20 when it is reborn?


That was Bardess' concept originally, I believe. Bardess, you wanna answer that question?

@ Everyone else: Thoughts on the Merciful Redeemer?


Hi all!

So I just recently stumbled onto this awesome thread and the accompanying wiki - great stuff!

I've been working on an idea for a MC Monk/Cleric for a while now, and have been refining it using your system for the past couple of days. I know that the Monk/Cleric is reserved as the Healing Palm at the moment, but since I didn't see any mention of it on this (3rd) thread, and after speaking with Elghinn, I thought I'd share my work with you guys.

Monk/Cleric: The Divine Paragon
The Divine Paragon is the ultimate warrior in service to his deity, honing his very body and soul into an instrument of the great power he champions. Using his divine connection, the divine paragon bolsters his abilities and casts fearsome spells to better enact the desires of his deity.

In any case, the Divine Paragon is primarily combat focused still so it seems like there will be room to breath between it and the Healing Palm.

I'll have my first draft up shortly!


@Vero
When the Dead Shaman dies, he's reincarnated as a monster- it's part of his bloodline curse. For example, if an undead bloodline Dead Shaman dies, he becomes a vampire; if an aberrant bloodline Dead Shaman dies, he's reborn as a neothelid or something similar. This way, he becomes a monster or a NPC and must leave the party, coming under the GM's control. Basically, it's the same thing than saying "you can't be resurrected or reincarnated".

Everyone? Say something on my Redeemer? I think it's almost done with Elghinn's changes, so I'm beginning to work on the Beastbrewer already!


@Bardess/Elghinn: re: Merciful Redeemer. I like your edits Elghinn. Here are some further comments:

* Spells: I'm fine with the added inquisitor spells as is.

* Should Verdicts not be (Su) rather than (Ex)? Seeing as verdicts are attached to Hand of Judgment (Su)... And Improved/Greater Verdict are both (Su)...

* The Verdict Of Absolution for assassination/murder at 3rd level ends mid-sentence: "and gains." ...? This verdict also appears (by itself) under Improved Verdict. Why only this one?

* The guilty and innocent concept is still unclear to me in the writeup with regard to who is deciding/judging in actuality - the merciful redeemer (i.e. The player) or the god/s (i.e. The GM). And the merciful redeemer can use hand of judgment/verdict (and multiple verdicts at higher levels) on himself?!?!

* I like the streamlined Aura of Clemency but can we push it's range out to 30'?


So this is what I've come up with:

Divine Paragon

Spoiler:

The Divine Paragon is the ultimate warrior in service to his deity, honing his very body and soul into an instrument of the great power he champions. Using his divine connection, the divine paragon bolsters his abilities and casts fearsome spells to better enact the desires of his deity.

Multiclass Monk / Cleric

Primary: Monk

Secondary: Cleric

HIt Dice: d8
BAB: 3/4
Saves: Monk (G/G/G)

Alignment: Any Lawful

Skills: A Divine Paragon may select up to 3 skills from the Cleric skill list in addition to his normal Monk skills
Skill Points: 4 + Int

Weapons and Armor Proficiency: As the Monk class, plus the favored weapon of his deity. A divine paragon is not proficient with armor. When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a divine paragon loses his AC bonus, as well as his fast movement and flurry of blows.

AC Bonus (Ex): [as Monk class feature] - The divine paragon adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD; in addition, a divine paragon gains +1 to AC and CMD at 4th level and every four divine paragon levels thereafter (up to a max of +5 at 20th level).

Unarmed Strike: [as Monk class feature] - At first level, the divine paragon gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. Since these attacks may be made with any part of the body, a divine paragon can make unarmed attacks with his hands full. A divine paragon applies his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for unarmed strikes. Damage progession for unarmed strikes is as the Monk class.

Flurry of Blows (Ex): As the Monk class feature, except a divine paragon may alternatively make attacks with his deity's favored weapon in addition to unarmed strikes and special monk weapons as part of a flurry of blows attack.

Spells: A Divine Paragon casts divine spells which are drawn from the cleric spell list; his alignment may restrict the casting of certain spells. To prepare or cast a spell, a divine paragon must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. the DC for a saving throw against a divine paragon's spell is 10 + the spell level + the paragon's wisdom modifier. His base daily spell allotment is given in the Divine Paragon Abilities Table. In addition, he recieves bonus spells per day based on his Wisdom modifier.

Domain: A divine paragon chooses one domain among those belonging to his deity; he recieves the domain powers and bonus spells as a cleric would.

(Spellcasting and its domain replace evasion, Ki Pool, still mind, maneuver training, slow fall, purity of body, high jump, wholeness of body, improved evasion, diamond body, abundant step, diamond soul, timeless body)

Bonus Feat: At 1st and 2nd level, a divine paragon may select a bonus feat, which must be taken from the following list:
Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, and Weapon Focus. If he chooses weapon focus, he ignores all prerequisites but must choose the favored weapon of his chosen deity.

Channel The True Self (Su):
You are able to call upon the power of your deity to manifest your true inner power in return for your loyal service, enabling you to lay waste your deity's enemies.
At 5th level, as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity, the divine paragon may channel the power of his deity, giving him a +2 Sacred (or Profane, if his deity is evil aligned) bonus to Strength and Wisdom for the duration of the channeling. In addition, his fists are treated as lawful aligned for purpose of damage reduction, and he exudes an Aura (lawful) as the cleric class feature. (Depending on the alignment of the paragon's deity, these alignments can be good [LG], evil [LE], or lawful [LN]; once chosen at 4th level his aura alignment cannot be changed [as the cleric channel feature]). The divine paragon's ability to channel the aspect of his deity increases at later levels:

7th: A divine paragon gains immunity to mind-affecting spells (enchantment subschool) while channeling.

9th: Sacred Aura: At 9th level, the divine paragon gains a sacred aura that heals him and his allies. A Sacred aura endows a divine paragon with Fast Healing 2, which increases by 2 every 3 levels thereafter. Additionally, the paragon may choose heal a number of allies within the aura's radius equal to his Wisdom bonus, giving them a Fast Healing score equal to half his (ie, at 12th level, the paragon has Fast Healing 4 and his allies have Fast Healing 2). Furthermore, any undead caught within the radius of the divine paragon's sacred aura suffer 1d6 holy damage for every 2 points of Fast Healing the paragon has gained from this ability (ie, 1d6 at 9th level, 2d6 at 12th, 4d6 at 18th). The radius of a sacred aura extends 10ft per point of Wisdom modifier of the divine paragon.
11th: At 11th level, the sacred bonus to Strength and Wisdom increases to +4, and the paragon gains temporary hp equal to his Divine Paragon class level. Additionally, activating Channel the True Self becomes a swift action.
13th: Once per channel, as a swift action, a divine paragon can expend a use of his channels/day to give himself a +2 bonus to confirm critical hits with unarmed strikes or favored weapon for the remaining duration of his channeling. This may only be used once per day.
15th: Once per channel, as a swift action, a divine paragon can expend a use of his channels/day to double the threat range of his unarmed strikes or favored weapon for the remaining duration of his channeling. This may only be used once per day.
17th: While channeling, the divine paragon is infused with all but the greatest favors of his deity, gaining Spell Resistance equal to his Divine Paragon class level + 10 + his Wisdom bonus

Channel the True Self lasts a number of rounds equal to the divine paragon's class level plus his wisdom modifier. He can activate it a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Wisdom modifier. A divine paragon cannot cast spells while channeling, though he may stop channeling at will as a free action.

This ability replaces Stunning Fist, Bonus Feats 6, 10, 14, 18, and Quivering Palm.

True Zealot (19th): You are able to prepare and cast your 7th level Domain spell as if you could cast 7th lvl divine spells, even if you are otherwise unable to cast 7th level divine spells.

True Paragon (20th): [Capstone]
You become a paragon of your deity, seemlessly merging your physical self with the powers of your god
- DR 10 / chaotic, evil, or good, depending on deity; neutral gets DR/chaotic
- Domain spells are cast as if they were Maximized, with no lvl penalty**
- Outsider, can be resurrected as normal

Ex-Paragons: A Divine Paragon who becomes non-lawful, or grossly violates the conduct of his god, can no longer cast divine spells gained as a paragon or use the Channel the True Self ability. He cannot thereafter take levels in Divine Paragon until he has atoned for his deeds (see atonement spell).

---

Class Features---------------- 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 / 6
1st: Bonus Feat; (1d6) ---------0
2nd: Bonus Feat ---------1
3rd: +10ft ---------1
4th: (1d8); AC +1 ---------1 0
5th: Channel the True Self ------1 1
6th: +20ft -------- 2 1
7th: channel power ---------2 1 0
8th: (1d10); AC +2 ---------2 1 1
9th: channel power; +30ft ------2 2 1
10th: -------- 3 2 1 0
11th: channel power ---------3 2 1 1
12th: (2d6); AC +3; +40ft ------4 3 2 1
13th: channel power --------- 3 2 2 1 0
14th: ---------3 3 2 1 1
15th: channel power;+50ft -----4 3 2 2 1
16th: (2d8); AC +4 ---------4 3 3 2 1 0
17th: channel power ---------4 4 3 2 1 1
18th: ---------4 4 3 2 2 2
19th: True Zealot ----------4 4 3 3 2 2
20th: True Paragon ---------4 4 4 3 3 3
(2d10); AC +5

Basically what I did here was strip down the Monk to the bare essentials [Unarmed Damage, Flurry of Blows, the AC bonus (which works well when combo'd with spellcasting) and Fast Movement], while giving him the ability to cast spells. I lifted the cleric spell progression right from the Ranger/Cleric multiclass; I feel that limiting access to 6th levels spells (and slowly, at that) is a pretty significant trade-off, but I'm still not sure what the overall power level of gaining access to spells is in terms of feature trading.

In regards to Channel the True Self, I basically combined a cleric's channel ability with the monk's focus on special combat actions. Without some special ability, the class seemed kind of bland, and I wanted the retain the flavour of the Monk channeling his god's power literally into him. This ability is the one I see as the most flexible (and possibly overpowered). Unsure as to the actual power level of the ability, I added the clause where he cannot cast spells while in this heightened state; if it doesn't seem too strong, I wouldn't mind removing it for simplicities sake, but then again it is somewhat flavourful (the Monk becoming a literal weapon of his god).

Feedback would be much appreciated.


@OSW re: Further comments:

* Spells: I'm fine with the added inquisitor spells as is.

+1

* Should Verdicts not be (Su) rather than (Ex)? Seeing as verdicts are attached to Hand of Judgment (Su)... And Improved/Greater Verdict are both (Su)...

Yup, consider it changed

* The Verdict Of Absolution for assassination/murder at 3rd level ends mid-sentence: "and gains." ...? This verdict also appears (by itself) under Improved Verdict. Why only this one?

Improved Verdict (Su): At 9th level, whenever a merciful redeemer’s verdict or absolution grants a bonus, that bonus increases to +2. Likewise, whenever a merciful redeemer’s verdict or condemnation bestows a penalty, that penalty increases to –2.

If a merciful redeemer pronounces a verdict of absolution against assassination/murder, the target is automatically stabilized when reduced to 0 hit points and gains 1 additional hit points. If a merciful redeemer pronounces a verdict of condemnation against assassination/murder, the target’s bleed damage increases to 2. This ability replaces 9th-level mercy.

The reason the above is the only verdicts mentioned is because, unlike all the others, they don't grant a bonus/bestow a penalty, and so doesn't fit in with the blanket caveat of increasing bonuses/penalties. Same reason for Greater Verdict. :D

* The guilty and innocent concept is still unclear to me in the writeup with regard to who is deciding/judging in actuality - the merciful redeemer (i.e. The player) or the god/s (i.e. The GM). And the merciful redeemer can use hand of judgment/verdict (and multiple verdicts at higher levels) on himself?!?!

How about the following additions?

Hand of Judgment (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a merciful redeemer can proclaim a preliminary judgment upon a creature a number of times equal to 1/2 her merciful redeemer level plus her Charisma modifier. With one use of this ability, a merciful redeemer can proclaim the creature as either guilty or innocent through the merits of its most recent actions. If a merciful redeemer proclaims the creature as innocent, the creature heals 1d6 hit points of damage for every two merciful redeemer levels she possesses. Using this ability is a standard action. A merciful redeemer can choose to heal herself as a swift action, without the need to declare her own guilt or innocence. Despite the name of this ability...

Verdict (Su): Starting at 3rd level, whenever a merciful redeemer...Whenever the merciful redeemer uses hand of judgment against one target, the target also receives the additional effect from either the verdict of condemnation or the verdict of absolution, according to the target’s guilt or innocence of the declared offense, as determined by her god. This choice is made when...

How's that? HofJ is a preliminary guilt or innocence decision made by the merciful redeemer according to the known facts, while the vedicts are determined by her god (GM), according to the creatures true guilt or innocence.

* I like the streamlined Aura of Clemency but can we push it's range out to 30'?

Perhaps, since 10 feet is rather a small area for a supposed ally to be able to operate in. Although, Aura of Justice is only 10 feet. Thoughts from others?


What if the MR can't heal herself? It's a little strained for the character to say that "The law doesn't apply to me, I am the law MYSELF".
As for the "begging for mercy" ability, we could state that the damage or maluses inflicted by the judgment/verdict is canceled, or/and maybe that the smite evil damage is converted to nonlethal damage.
As for the divine bond, I'd replace again the defending and keen sword abilities with bane (evil humanoids) and bane (evil outsiders).


@Elghinn - much clearer and MUCH better. And good point on Aura of Clemency/Aura of Justice...


@MrShine: Just wanted to chip in with: Awesome for! I'm sorry I can't fully review this MCA right at the moment, but I'm happy to see you've followed the guideline fairly well! I'm pretty sure Elghinn's the guy to review this one (among others...)...

I'll get to it with comment when I can....


Regarding the Verdict ability, I intended originally to make it function like the Inheritor's Crusader's sword against injustice ability. It should be clear to the GM if a NPC is gulity or not of a specific crime.


Hey all,

Let me start by saying, I'm a PF noob. However, I'm not a RPG noob. I love the work that has been done, and I kneel in humility before your greatness at navigating the ins and outs of this system. Personally, the traditional mutli-classing doesn't appeal to me, but I love the MCAs.I have a character concept in mind, and I would like to entreat you for some assistance...

Basically, my concept is a half-elf that ran away from home at a young age and was forced to learn to survive in the wilderness. She ends up learning to fight and cast spells to ward intruders from her turf and help people or animals that are in trouble. (Druid) When she's cornered she lashes out with an animalistic rage that can sometimes get out of control (i.e. Barbarian's Wild Rager).

Could someone help me combine a Druid and a Barbarian with the druid as the primary class and the Barbarian as secondary? I saw the Spirit Warrior, but I'd like more of the focus on the Druid side... i.e. casting and stuff. The Land Master piqued my interest, but I don't think it's "just right"...

Perhaps you could help me work this out? And, if it yields a cool concept to add to your site, well... that's great for everyone!

Thank you for considering!

-mb


So the Druid would be the base class while the barbarian is a secondary class?


mbuchholz wrote:

Hey all,

Let me start by saying, I'm a PF noob. However, I'm not a RPG noob. I love the work that has been done, and I kneel in humility before your greatness at navigating the ins and outs of this system. Personally, the traditional mutli-classing doesn't appeal to me, but I love the MCAs.I have a character concept in mind, and I would like to entreat you for some assistance...

Basically, my concept is a half-elf that ran away from home at a young age and was forced to learn to survive in the wilderness. She ends up learning to fight and cast spells to ward intruders from her turf and help people or animals that are in trouble. (Druid) When she's cornered she lashes out with an animalistic rage that can sometimes get out of control (i.e. Barbarian's Wild Rager).

Could someone help me combine a Druid and a Barbarian with the druid as the primary class and the Barbarian as secondary? I saw the Spirit Warrior, but I'd like more of the focus on the Druid side... i.e. casting and stuff. The Land Master piqued my interest, but I don't think it's "just right"...

Perhaps you could help me work this out? And, if it yields a cool concept to add to your site, well... that's great for everyone!

Thank you for considering!

-mb

It might help to start by thinking about what you feel is the core of the Druid part of the multi you are trying to create; What Druid abilities do you want to emphasize? It seems like spellcasting is important for your concept, so we should probably keep it intact or maybe apply a diminished spellcasting template, depending on how many features you add (in general it seems to me that full powered caster MCAs are a little too strong, unless its a caster/caster hybrid).

Along this vein, what Barbarian abilities do you want to emphasize? If you want to include the rage feature, think about a way it could synergize with the Druid abilities you want to focus on. It seems like gaining some kind of altered, frenzied casting rage would be pretty cool - a rage that allows the druid to cast 2 spells per round (probably at a significant caster level penalty ie can cast those spells of a druid 4 levels lower or something), or maybe a class feature that applies a weaker rage to her pet and the monsters she has summoned?

You also want to be careful to differentiate the MCA from the flip version: ie, the Spirit Warrior (Barbarian Druid). Since that one is based on bringing wild shape to a professional rager, you'll probably want to either diminish or remove wild shape entirely as a feature of your MCA.

Just some food for thought; sounds like it could be pretty cool!

MrShine

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