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MultiClass Archetypes III: The Return of the MCA


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew

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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Those sound like very similar concepts.


I agree, far too similar.

I would suggest with the Runic Berserker, that you focus on having him scribe runes only on his weapons, as opposed to his skin. Still have him meditate, but scribed the runes on his sword blade (or whatever weapon).

Perhaps an ability called Runeblade. It funtions as a repository of the Runic Berserker's "memorized" spells for the day. It wouldn't change the spell casting mechanics necessarily, but the flavor would be cool. When he scribes the runes into his Runeblade, they are essentially "cast", awaiting the Runic Berserker's to speak the single rune (as opposed to muttering the entire spell). Still requires the same time to cast a particular spell.

Maybe add another ability called Runestrike. Similar to spellstrike, but allows you to releaze one of the runes through a successful attack, even if that spell is not a "touch" spell, like lightning bolt. Essentially, allowing you to target an opponent during combat but also getting in a single attack to unleash the magic. You'd just need to be careful with area afect spells. :D

Another thought, perhaps making him an Intelligence-based (or Charisma) spontaneous caster. That way, he learns and knows his spells, like a sorcerer, but to cast them, he must scribe them on his "Runeblade" and then shouts the rune name to cast during battle. Then have rage somehow incorporate into the runes, such as expending rage rounds to enhance the spells (duration, damage, etc)?

Or you could just have the "Runeblade" serve as the Runic Berserker's spellbook, since he is supposed to have "limited" spells. Functions as a spellbok with "X" pages, and the runes allows him to reduces the "number of pages" required to scribe each level of spell by 1 (so a 6th level spel requires "5 page" to scribe).

Or completely different, have him cast like a normal magus, but use the Bard's Spells Known table as the number of spells of each level that can be scribed in runes on the "Runeblade" spellbook. So he would need to mediate to learn his spells each day, but learns them from his "Runeblade". Since, as a berserker, he likely wouldn't be trucking around with a spellbook, and with the limited spells, they can go on a weapon instead. May need to go 1/2 caster? or diminished spellcasting.

Anyways, just some thoughts to focus on aspects of your concept that would make it different enough from mine.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Or you guys could just work together on a single MCA :P


:P

We don't have a Bbn/Mag yet, so I figured Quinitin may as work on filling that niche. By tweaking his concept, the Runic Berserker (Bbn/Mag) is quite different from my Runescarred Fury (Wiz/Bbn). I have no problem hammering out the Runic Berserker with you Quintin. Just email me (see my profile) and we can work on it behind the scenes until it's figured out if you want. Then you can post it once you other MCA(s) are completed on the thread.

Silver Crusade

I like it, thanks for the inspiration, and now that I'm done with AP exams i can work on it.


I completed the first draft of the Redeemer... any news from the crew?

Silver Crusade

Bardess wrote:
I completed the first draft of the Redeemer... any news from the crew?

Personally I love both the idea and the design and find it to be just a nice class overall.


One of my gamers wanted to play a ranger - rogue character so whipped this up...if you guys wouldn't mind looking at this to make it better, it would be appreciated. I have added restrictions on some of the rogue talents, just don't think they are of the right feel for this type...but there is a whole lot of customizing available for the PC's.

I will also use this as a striker type bad guy template for quick build NPC's.
Please let me know what you think...thanks!

Primary Class: Ranger. Secondary Class: Rogue.

Hit Dice: d10.

Table: Focused Hunter

Class Base Fort Ref Will
Level Attack Bonus Save Save Save Special

1st +1 +2 +2 +0 1st Favored enemy, track, trapfinding
2nd +2 +3 +3 +0 Combat style feat 1
3rd +3 +3 +3 +1 Focused Strike +1d6
4th +4 +4 +4 +1 Hunter’s Knack
5th +5 +4 +4 +1 2nd Favored Enemy
6th +6/+1 +5 +5 +2 Focused Strike +2d6
7th +7/+2 +5 +5 +2 Evasion, Hunter’s Knack
8th +8/+3 +6 +6 +2 Combat style feat 2,
9th +9/+4 +6 +6 +3 Focused Strike +3d6
10th +10/+5 +7 +7 +3 Hunter’s Knack
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +7 +3 3rd Favored Enemy
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +8 +4 Focused Strike +4d6,
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +8 +4 Hunter’s Knack
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +9 +4 Combat style feat 3
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +9 +5 Focused Strike +5d6
16th +16/+11/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 Hunter’s Knack
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +10 +5 4th Favored Enemy
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +11 +6 Focused Strike +6d6
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +11 +6 Hunter’s Knack
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +12 +6 Supreme Hunter

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The Focused Hunter loses Handle Animal and Spellcraft, but may add Disable Device, Knowledge Local and Linguistics to his class skills in addition to the normal ranger class skills. The Focused Hunter gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Focused Hunter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armor and shields (not including tower shield)

Track (EX): A Focused Hunter adds ½ his level (minimum 1) to Survival skill checks made to follow or identify tracks.

Trapfinding (EX): A Focused Hunter adds 1/2 his level to Perception skill checks made to locate traps and to Disable Device skill checks (minimum +1). A rogue can use Disable Device to disarm magic traps.

Favored Enemy (Ex): At 1st level, a Focused Hunter selects a creature type from the ranger favored enemies table in the Core Rule Book. He gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks against creatures of his selected type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against them. A Focused Hunter may make Knowledge skill checks untrained when attempting to identify these creatures.

At 5th, 11th & 17th levels, the Focused Hunter may select an additional favored enemy. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by +2.

Combat Style Feats: This is exactly like the ranger ability of the same name. All are allowed from Core Rule Book, APG and Ultimate Combat. Combat Style Feat 1 can be chosen from the feats allowed at 2nd level Ranger. Combat Style Feat 2 can be feats allowed at 6th level ranger. Combat Style Feat 3 can be any of the feats allowed at 10th level ranger.

Focused Strike: If a Focused Hunter can catch an opponent when he is unable to defend himself effectively, she can strike a vital spot for extra damage. Same as Rogue Sneak Attack.

This extra damage is 1d6 at 3rd level, and increases by 1d6 every three Focused Hunter levels thereafter. Against the Focused Hunter’s Favored Enemy, Focused Strike damage is instead rolled as d8’s. can count as sneak attacks only if the target is within 30 feet.

Hunter’s Knack: As a Focused Hunter gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid his and confound his foes. Starting at 4th level, a Focused Hunter Knack gains one Hunter’s Knack. She gains an additional Hunter’s Knack for every 3 levels of Focused Hunter attained after 4h level. A Focused Hunter cannot select an individual talent more than once, unless specifically noted below.

Hunter’s Knack may be chosen from the following lists:
• Any Favored Terrain (as the Ranger Ability)
• Swift Tracker (7th level minimum), Quarry (10th level minimum) as the Ranger Class Ability from the Core Rulebook.
• Extra Favored Enemy: add new Favored Enemy and add +2 bonus to existing Favored Enemy, or add +2 to two existing Favored Enemies. This Knack can be chosen multiple times, however the bonus may not apply more than once to a single ‘existing’ Favored Enemy.
• Core – Combat Trick, Finesse Rogue, Major Magic, Minor Magic, Weapon Training
• APG – Combat Swipe, Strong Impression
• Ultimate Combat – Black Market Connections, Convincing Lie, Esoteric Scholar, Firearm Training, Grit, Ki Pool, Ninja Trick, Terrain Mastery

At 13th level, and every three levels thereafter, a Focused Hunter can choose an advanced talent from the Core Rulebook, APG, Ultimate Combat or Ultimate Magic in place of a Hunter’s Knack, with the following exceptions:
• Camoflage, Greater Improved Quarry (19th level minimum, must have taken Quarry Hunter’s Knack), Hide in Plain Site (16th level minimum) as the Ranger Class abilities from Core Rulebook.
• Core – Dispelling attack, Slippery Mind, Feat
• APG: none
• Ultimate Combat – Familiar, Hard to Fool, Hide in Plain Site, Rumormonger.

Supreme Hunter (Ex): A Focused Hunter of 20th level becomes a Supreme hunter. He can always move at full speed while using Survival to follow tracks without penalty. He can, as a standard action, make a single attack against a favored enemy at his full attack bonus. If the attack hits, the target takes damage normally with the addition of the attackers Focused Strike damage, and must make a Fortitude save or die. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the Focused Hunter level + the Focused Hunter 's Wisdom modifier. A Focused Hunter can choose instead to deal an amount of nonlethal damage equal to the creature's current hit points. A successful save negates this damage. Focused Hunter can use this ability once per day against each favored enemy type he possesses, but not against the same creature more than once in a 24-hour period.


Elghinn! I thought you retired!

Good to see you back in.

I'm still neck-deep in publishing out my Ki-Based Psychic, but I've had time to exhaustively playtest the Mirror Blade and Adamant Interceptor, and both pass very well. The Interceptor is -infuriating- for the GM. Capable of shielding up the party main-striker fighter-type into the low-mid 30's for AC by Level 5, and while damage is minimal, her HORSE murdered the cookies out of the badguys.


Focused Hunter:
-TERRIFYING-

Might want to strip the 'move at full speed while using survival' out of the capstone. It virtually doesn't matter, because no one ever plays up to 20, but that's the logical extension of the Swift Tracker feature, which is completely optional for this MCA.

The thought of sneak attack with Full BAB progression ON TOP of favored enemy is horrifying. At 12th level this guy is doing screaming piles of damage to every (creature type) he comes up against. Like around 26-55 points of damage per arrow or something like that, and firing off four attacks a round while ignoring cover and concealment while within 30 feet. Take improved initiative. He easily dishes out 120+ damage per round to favored enemies!

This guy is to Offense what the Synthesist is to defense. He drops spellcasting and favored terrain (theoretically) and his animal companion for the power of PAIN.


Howdy Purplefixer, long time no see! Glad to hear the Psychic is still going...

@Bardess - where is your draft of the Redeemer?

@hwkies: I like the concept and the hunter's knack ideas are cool! What does the Focused strike replace? Or hunter's knack? A full list of swaps wold make it easier to see the balance!!!


@OSW- Before posting the Redeemer, I'm waiting the final approval on the Arcane Templar. We agreed that there should be only one archetype at a time for every one of us.


@Bardess- Quintin quoting you and appearing to be commenting on the MCA led me to think it was posted somewhere...


I posted a first table of abilities as a "taste" of it. I guess Quentin was talking of that. There were only the abilities' names on it. (Since then I changed some things, though). ^-^

Silver Crusade

Bardess wrote:
I posted a first table of abilities as a "taste" of it. I guess Quentin was talking of that. There were only the abilities' names on it. (Since then I changed some things, though). ^-^

Indeed. Anyway, I haven't looked much at your templar, but considering the editing its been going through by the others I believe it might be safe to say that it might be pretty solid by now, I'll go looke at it just to be sure.

@Hwkies: Please make him weaker! I have to agree with Purple Fixer on this one and say that you hunter is madness! I suggest dropping focuses strike, you don't need it! instead either drop it all together or go for things like Evasion or Uncanny Dodge, or.....
Wait I have it! Give him Roof Running and flavor it like running through tree tops! its brilliant!


Thanks for the feedback guys. I honestly wasn't even looking at this guy as a ranged behemouth...so could eliminate ranged weapon style. My PC was really looking at a sword and board ranger or 2-handed weapon fighter. should have looked at all of the options available.

Also would also still be affective at 3/4 BAB in lieu of Full BAB, so i will drop down...that will match with the weapon feat progression better.

As for what i swapped out for what ability / balance-wise, i basically stripped the ranger down to bare bones and added intermittent rogue levels here and there to give me the ability progression....so effectively not a ranger, but a single ranger - rogue class. I know the class abilities don't match perfect to a 10/10 ranger rogue...i fudged on the side of useful. That is why i stopped in this thread to get better ideas than my-own...i DM most of time, so i want my players to have fun and really be able to handle the challenges that i provide them.

Thanks again, and any more feedback would be great!


I dunno. Do a full side-by-side. Build the character with 10 levels of rogue. It's a Full-BAB + Half-BAB mashup, so it could go either way. I'm just looking at the thing and numbers fly up in my head. You might also want to just call the Hunter Knacks -rogue tricks- so that the rogue trick feats can support it. Otherwise we have to write feat-support for it.

That's a common issue with many of the MCAs that even I fall prey to. There's a lot of temptation to do a bunch of alternate stuff with it, when really we should be focusing on one, or two at most, unique features to tie the two classes together. The less custom woojiness there is, the more support the game already offers to the MCA.


Is there a chart/ist somewhere I could consult to see the multiclass archtype's available?


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Is there a chart/ist somewhere I could consult to see the multiclass archtype's available?

Wiki


I do not know if you guy's have already created one, but is there an Anti-Bloodfiend, or a lawful good Paladin/Sorcerer?


Here: Mystic Defender


After looking over the Silent Warrior archetype (http://mcarchetype.wikispaces.com/Silent+Warrior), I have to say that I like it, but Silent Combat seems way too powerful. The addition at the bottom that says "while his opponent is silenced the silent warrior gains a +4 circumstance bonus to his attack rolls against that opponent" seems way to powerful, especially because the class maintains full fighter BAB. I'd recommend removing the bonus to hit, but perhaps raise the perception negative the enemies get to notice the combat to maybe -10.

Also, just looking at it in comparison to Rogue, it seems like it outclasses it. You get heavy armor with no stealth penalty, can get fighter only feats, and have a full bab (and many feats earlier than rogue because of it) with the only loss being 4d6 of sneak attack and some skill points. I really like the idea, but it still seems a bit much; ie I don't think a DM would actually let me use it.


So are you guys going to make more cavalier/sorcerer MCAs besides the Bone Knight, because I can help make a few.

@Bardess: Thanks, I found it weird that there was an anitpaladin/sorcerer MCA and that there seemed to be no paladin/sorcerer MCA.


I know, I know, we've been quiet! Sorry about that!

Bardess, please post up what you got on Arcane Templar currently in full form. I'll get to it tonight and we'll have someone edit it up for voting this week.

Focused Hunter is EXTREMELY powerful. Multiple sources of damage-boosting and access to a wide-area of skill/utility abilities? Step back, see where the combination has a common bond. For example, Rangers and Rogues are both very stealthy. Perhaps a bonus to there? Or combat style and quarry abilities replaced with Rogue Talents, similar to what the Archeologist does for the bard. Don't just stack on 'the best aspects'.


Vero wrote:

So are you guys going to make more cavalier/sorcerer MCAs besides the Bone Knight, because I can help make a few.

@Bardess: Thanks, I found it weird that there was an anitpaladin/sorcerer MCA and that there seemed to be no paladin/sorcerer MCA.

We do try to avoid doubling up where possible, especially with so many combinations not yet done. But if you want to try your hand at a new version, feel free to post one up and I'll take a glance for ya. >:3


chaoseffect wrote:

After looking over the Silent Warrior archetype (http://mcarchetype.wikispaces.com/Silent+Warrior), I have to say that I like it, but Silent Combat seems way too powerful. The addition at the bottom that says "while his opponent is silenced the silent warrior gains a +4 circumstance bonus to his attack rolls against that opponent" seems way to powerful, especially because the class maintains full fighter BAB. I'd recommend removing the bonus to hit, but perhaps raise the perception negative the enemies get to notice the combat to maybe -10.

Also, just looking at it in comparison to Rogue, it seems like it outclasses it. You get heavy armor with no stealth penalty, can get fighter only feats, and have a full bab (and many feats earlier than rogue because of it) with the only loss being 4d6 of sneak attack and some skill points. I really like the idea, but it still seems a bit much; ie I don't think a DM would actually let me use it.

We've had discussions on such things before, and we're open to new ideas. How would you fix it? Lower the sneak attack? Perhaps remove some bonus feats? What other angle should the fighter give up for the rogue abilities?

Thanks for your time and opinion, hope to hear from ya soon >:3


I'm copying/pasting here my last post on the Templar...

Quote:

Arcane Templar:

Some divine agents are followers of exoteric sects venerating gods of magic, and use both arcane comprehension and mystic gifts, along with their frightening prowess in battle, to further their god’s ends and the cause of good, be it in the light of law or in the dark of chaotic secret wars. Enforcer and spy, public defender and dirty worker, the arcane templar is a strange hybrid: faithful yet independent, he thinks with his own head, can cast arcane spells as well as channeling divine energy, goes wherever he’s needed to be and does what needs to be done and no other could do.
Primary Class: Magus
Secondary Class: Paladin
Skills: +3 from Paladin class
BAB: ¾
Saves: GPG
Spells: as magus but see Merciful Magic
Alignment: Any Good
1) Aura of Good, Cantrips, Divine Spirit, Spell Combat
2) Spellstrike
3) Templar Arcana
4) Merciful Hand
5) Aura of Courage
6) Templar Arcana
7) Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor
8) Improved Spell Combat
9) Templar Arcana
10) Aura of Resolve
11) Merciful Burst
12) Templar Arcana
13) Heavy Armor, Improved Merciful Hand
14) Greater Spell Combat
15) Templar Arcana
16) Insightful Prayer
17) Aura of Dispelling
18) Templar Arcana
19) Merciful Magic
20) Templar Champion
New Arcana: Arcane Commune, Arcane Mercy, Arcane Spirit, Champion Blending, Faithful Blending, Graceful Spirit, Hunter Blending, Merciful Gaze
Aura of Good (Ex): as paladin.
Divine Spirit (Su): At 1st level, the arcane templar’s magic studies and unswerving faith attract the attention of an agent of his deity, a being of pure magic called an archanangel. Communion with this guardian spirit, which he alone can sense and communicate with, grants the arcane templar a reservoir of divine power, which slowly meshes with his arcane powers as he advances in level. The powers granted by the spirit are divine in nature, and effects that can cut a paladin off from using his lay on hands, channel energy, or divine spellcasting function against the powers of the divine spirit as well. However, this energy pool counts as an arcane pool for all prerequisites, feats, and abilities.
The divine spirit reservoir has a number of points equal to ½ the arcane templar’s level (minimum 1) + his Charisma modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the arcane templar prepares his spells.
At 1st level, the arcane templar can expend 1 point from the divine spirit pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. A weapon charged in this way glows like a torch. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.
At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: brilliant energy, dancing, defending, disruption, flaming, flaming burst, frost, holy, icy burst, speed.
Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier. These properties are added to any the weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. These bonuses and properties are decided when the divine spirit pool point is spent and cannot be changed until the next time the arcane templar uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the templar, and apply to only one end of a double weapon.
An arcane templar can only enhance one weapon in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends. This replaces Arcane Pool.
Cantrips: As magus.
Spell Combat (Ex): As magus.
Spellstrike (Su): As magus.
Templar Arcana: As magus arcana, plus the arcane templar has access to the following new arcana.
Arcane Commune:The archanangel uses the arcane templar's familiar as a conduit to interact more directly with its mortal charge, giving him wise advice. Once per week, the templar may use this link to cast commune as a spell-like ability, at a caster level equal to his arcane templar level. The archanangel speaks to his charge via his familiar or via telepathic contact. To choose this arcana, the arcane templar must be at least 9th level and have the familiar arcana.
Arcane Mercy (Su): The arcane templar chooses one paladin mercy that he can add to his channel positive energy power. This mercy follows all the rules of a paladin mercy, and the arcane templar is considered a paladin of his arcane templar level for all its effects. He can’t choose a mercy that a paladin of his level could not use. The arcane templar must be at least 6th level to choose this arcana.
Arcane Spirit (Ex): The arcane templar’s divine spirit is more powerfully bound to the forces of arcane magic. The arcane templar adds half his Intelligence modifier (round down) to his divine spirit pool. This arcana can be selected up to two times.
Champion Blending (Ex): When an arcane templar selects this arcana, he must select one spell from the paladin list that is at least two level lower than the highest magus spell level he can cast. He adds this spell to his spellbook and list of magus spells known as a magus spell two level higher than its paladin spell level. He can instead select two spells to add in this way, but both must be at last three levels lower than the highest-level magus spell he can cast. An arcane templar can select this magus arcana more than once.
Faithful Blending (Ex): When an arcane templar selects this arcana, he must select one spell from the cleric spell list that is at least one level lower than the highest magus spell level he can cast. He adds this spell to his spellbook and list of magus spells known as a magus spell one level higher than its cleric spell level. He can instead select two spells to add in this way, but both must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level magus spell he can cast. An arcane templar can select this magus arcana more than once.
Graceful Spirit (Ex): By spending one point from the divine spirit pool as an immediate action the arcane templar gains an untyped bonus to all saving throws equal to his charisma modifier for a number of rounds equal to his intelligence modifier. This bonus cannot stack with itself.
Hunter Blending (Ex): When an arcane templar selects this arcana, he must select one spell from the inquisitor spell list that is at least one level lower than the highest magus spell level he can cast. He adds this spell to his spellbook and list of magus spells known as a magus spell one level higher than its inquisitor spell level. He can instead select two spells to add in this way, but both must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level magus spell he can cast. An arcane templar can select this magus arcana more than once.
Merciful Gaze (Su): The arcane templar can channel energy through his gaze. The arcane templar’ eyes become pure white-gold and he can use his channel energy power on a single target within 30 feet of him. The amount of damage healed or caused is ½ the touch attack’s effect. An arcane templar must be at least 6th level to select this arcana.
Merciful Hand (Su): At 4th level, the arcane templar can expend 2 points of his divine spirit pool to channel positive energy with his touch. This functions like a paladin’s ability, except it can be used on a single touched creature. Touching a creature against its will requires an unarmed attack. Using this ability is a standard action unless the arcane templar targets himself, in which case it is a swift action. Feats and effects that modify the channel energy ability (like Channeling Smite or Turn Undead) affect this power too, except they specifically require an area of effect. This power doesn't work in conjunction with spell combat or spellstrike. This replaces Spell Recall.
Aura of Courage (Su): As paladin. This replaces the 5th-level magus bonus feat.
Knowledge Pool (Su): As magus.
Medium Armor (Ex): As magus.
Improved Spell Combat (Ex): As magus.
Aura of Resolve (Su): As paladin. This replaces Fighter Training.
Merciful Burst (Su): At 11th level, the arcane templar can expend 3 points from his divine spirit pool and use his channeling power to release a burst of energy, similar to a cleric channeling effect. Channeling energy in this way heals or inflicts ½ the damage of the merciful hand attack. This replaces the 11th-level magus bonus feat.
Heavy Armor (Ex): As magus.
Improved Merciful Hand (Su): At 13th level, the connection between the Arcane Templar and the archanangel grows so strong that channeling energy with touch costs only 1 point from the divine spirit pool, while the merciful burst power costs 2 points. Further, the Arcane Templar can use his merciful hand power in conjunction with the spell combat and spellstrike abilities (these still won't work with Merciful Burst). This replaces Improved Spell Recall.
Greater Spell Combat (Ex): As magus.
Insightful Prayer (Su): At 16th level, the archanangel suggests to the arcane templar a few divine incantations that he can use together with his arcane spells. When the templar prepares his magus spells, he can decide to expend 2 or more points from his divine spirit pool up to his Charisma modifier. For each 2 points he expends, he may treat any one spell from the paladin spell list as if it were a magus spell in his spellbook and can prepare that spell as normal that day. If he does not cast spells prepared in this way before the next time he prepares spells, he loses those spells. This replaces Counterstrike.
Aura of Dispelling (Su): At 17th level, the templar gains resistance to enemy spells and can grant the same resistance to his friends too. The arcane templar can expend 2 points of his divine spirit pool to grant all his allies within 10’ an holy protection from magic for 1 minute. When a creature with this bonus makes a successful attack against an enemy who’s casting a spell or is under a spell effect, that opponent is subject to a targeted dispel magic attempt as if cast by the arcane templar. If an ally leaves the aura’s range, he can’t benefit of the protection until he re-enters it. This replaces the 17th-level magus bonus feat.
Merciful Magic (Su): At 19th level, the arcane templar gains access to an expanded spell list. He learns and places 8 spells from the paladin’s spell list into his spellbook as magus spells two level higher than their paladin spell level. He gains two of each of the following paladin spells not on the magus spell list:
1st-level, 2nd-level, 3rd-level, and 4th-level. This replaces Greater Spell Access.
Templar Champion (Su): At 20th level, the arcane templar becomes a true receptacle of divine wrath and arcane power. Whenever he uses his spell combat ability, he does not need to make a concentration check to cast the spell defensively. Whenever the magus uses his merciful hand ability in conjunction with spell combat and the target of merciful hand is the same creature as his melee attacks, as long as the enemy's evil, he can choose to either increase the DC to resist the positive energy by +2, inflict 150% of the normal positive energy damage, or grant himself a +2 circumstance bonus on all attack rolls made against the target during his turn. This replaces True Magus.
Notes: Rumors speak of an evil branch of Arcane Templars with antipaladin powers, called the Purple Templars :P

Raider proposed to introduce this unique spell list:

Arcane Templar spell list:
Level 1: Bless Weapon, Burning Hands, Floating Disk, Frostbite, Grease, Know the Enemy, Lock Gaze, Magic Weapon, Mirror Strike, Protection from Chaos/Evil/Law, Returning Weapon, Sanctify Corpse, Shocking Grasp, Sleep

Level 2: Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cure Light Wounds, Daylight, Defensive Shock, Effortless Armor, Frigid Touch, Holy Shield, Lesser Restoration, Levitate, Litany of Defense, Litany of Entanglement, Shatter, Sound Burst, Spiritual Weapon, Vestment of the Champion, Word of Resolve

Level 3: Bestow Curse, Cure Moderate Wounds, Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Force Hook Charge, Lightning Bolt, Litany of Righteousness, Litany of Warding, Locate Weakness, Magic Circle Against Chaos/Evil/Law, Prayer, Scorching Ray, Water Breathing

Level 4: Archon's Aura, Beast Shape II, Black Tentacles, Cure Serious Wounds, Haste, Ice Storm, King's Castle, Litany of Sight, Remove Curse, Stoneskin, Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice, Wall of Sound

Level 5: Cure Critical Wounds, Dispel Evil, Flame Strike, Litany of Thunder, Litany of Vengeance, Mark of Justice, Mass Cure Light Wounds, Restoration, Stoneskin, Telekinesis

Level 6: Beast Shape III, Cone of Cold, Greater Dispel Magic, Holy Sword, Mass Bear's Endurance, Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Overland Flight, Stone to Flesh, Wall of Force, Word of Recall

(I posted it with some modification on my part- maybe there are three or four spells more I'd like to add)
He also proposed to replace Merciful Magic with this:

Faith Bindings:
Anytime the Arcane Templar casts a spell with a duration of at least 1 round per level, he may spend a point from his divine spirit pool to increase the duration by a number of rounds equal to his wisdom modifier.

I'm not opposed to it, but I wonder if in that case I should remove some of my new arcana (namely, Champion Blending, Faithful Blending, and Hunter Blending) or not.


Right. Take out the spell blending, there's no need for it with a unique spell list and it's hard to balance.

Take out Merciful Magic, let's replace that with Faith Bindings or pretty much anything that doesn't let them alter the spell list.

Flak, Elghinn, can one of you spruce this up? I think if Merciful magic and the Blendings are out, this is just about ready to vote on.


@Purplefixer: Hey Purple! Yeah, I'm back, but less insidious than before, as you can see. :D

@hwkies: Agree with others, too powerful. One of the tricks with building an MCA is to focus on the swap outs. Just stripping a class and adding in abilities doesn't keep things balanced. Instead you end up with your Focused Hunter's current incarnation.

When I do an MCA, I always paste a copy of both the MCAs advancement table above each other (for reference), then paste a copy a second copy of the Primary class I'm using as the base, which I actually make the changes to on the table. You want to swap out similar abilities for others. For example: You could swap 1 use of smite evil (Pal) or challenge (Cav), for judgement (Inq; or a discovery (Alc) or rage power (Bbn) for a rogue talent (Rog). Once your swaps are relatively balanced, then you see if you can shuffle the positions of those abilities, if you need to fill dead levels in the table. Though, that's not always necessary.

I would suggest you go back and reconfigure your MCA. Focus on deciding what new abilities are swapped for those of the old. You will likely need to scrap some abilities, weaken, or even split them into two or more progressions (such as challenge 1/day, 2/day, etc) to find the right balance. That's what happens to us too, on occasion. And watch combining certain abilities, such as favored enemy and sneak attack, that can be way OP. One way to minimize that is to have them not work with each other. Such as having favore enemy benefits obviously function with favored enemies, then sneak attack functions as normal, but cannot be used in oncjuntion with favore enemy. etc. Those are my suggestions. Follow those and what others have said, and we'll await your rebuild to be posted.

@Vero: who said "So are you guys going to make more cavalier/sorcerer MCAs besides the Bone Knight, because I can help make a few."

The Bone Knight actually triggered the whole revamping processs of how we did MCAs. That said, I've revamped it so that it is truly a Cav/Sor MCA, not so pin-wholed into the undead theme. Essentially, it allows you to create the "Bone Knight" as it is now on the Wiki, but you can also create a multitude of combinations based upon one's choice of bloodlines.

However, it hasn't been passed by the MCP Crew as of yet, since we have been focussing on revamping the Core MCAs (now completed and up on the Wiki). We've started the process behind the scenes of tweaking the current versions of Advanced MCAs. We just haven't gotten to it yet. So, stay tuned, you will likely see a more streamlined, more encompassing version of the Cav/Sor "Bone Knight".

@Bardess: I'll take a look at the Arcane Templar today or tonight, and pretty it up for us with Raider's changes.


Here's the Arcane Templar, minus the "Blendings" and replaced Merciful Magic with Faith Bindings. Now are the new arcana ONLY for the Arcane Templar, or are they supposed to be usable by other Magi?

ARCANE TEMPLAR:

Some divine agents are followers of exoteric sects venerating gods of magic, and use both arcane comprehension and mystic gifts, along with their frightening prowess in battle, to further their god’s ends and the cause of good, be it in the light of law or in the dark of chaotic secret wars. Enforcer and spy, public defender and dirty worker, the arcane templar is a strange hybrid: faithful yet independent, he thinks with his own head, can cast arcane spells as well as channeling divine energy, goes wherever he’s needed to be and does what needs to be done and no other could do.

Primary Class: Magus.

Secondary Class: Paladin.

Alignment: Any good.

Hit Dice: d8.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The arcane templar may select three paladin skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal maguc class skills. The arcane templar gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The arcane templar is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor, but not with shields. He can cast arcane spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, an arcane templar wearing medium armor, heavy armor, or a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass arcane templar still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Spellcasting: The arcane templar casts arcane spells drawn the arcane templar spell list, but otherwise learns, prepares and casts spells as a magus equal to his arcane templar level. He also receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score.

Table: Arcane Templar
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th

1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Aura of good, cantrips, divine spirit, spell combat 3 1 — — — — —
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Spellstrike 4 2 — — — — —
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Templar arcana 4 3 — — — — —
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 Merciful hand 4 3 1 — — — —
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Aura of courage 4 4 2 — — — —
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Templar arcana 5 4 3 — — — —
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Knowledge pool, medium armor 5 4 3 1 — — —
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Improved spell combat 5 4 4 2 — — —
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Templar arcana 5 5 4 3 — — —
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Aura of resolve 5 5 4 3 1 — —
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Merciful burst 5 5 4 4 2 — —
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Templar arcana 5 5 5 4 3 — —
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Heavy armor, improved merciful hand 5 5 5 4 3 1 —
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Greater spell combat 5 5 5 4 4 2 —
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Templar arcana 5 5 5 5 4 3 —
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Insightful prayer 5 5 5 5 4 3 1
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Aura of dispelling 5 5 5 5 4 4 2
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Templar arcana 5 5 5 5 5 4 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Faith binding 5 5 5 5 5 5 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Templar champion 5 5 5 5 5 5 5

Aura of Good (Ex): At 1st level, an arcane templar gains the paladin’s aura of good ability.

Divine Spirit (Su): At 1st level, the arcane templar’s magic studies and unswerving faith attract the attention of an agent of his deity, a being of pure magic called an archangel. Communion with this guardian spirit, which he alone can sense and communicate with, grants the arcane templar a reservoir of divine power, which slowly meshes with his arcane powers as he advances in level. The powers granted by the spirit are divine in nature, and effects that can cut a paladin off from using his lay on hands, channel energy, or divine spellcasting function against the powers of the divine spirit as well. However, this energy pool counts as an arcane pool for all prerequisites, feats, and abilities.

The divine spirit reservoir has a number of points equal to 1/2 the arcane templar’s level (minimum 1) + his Charisma modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the arcane templar prepares his spells.

At 1st level, the arcane templar can expend 1 point from the divine spirit pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute. A weapon charged in this way glows like a torch. For every four levels beyond 1st, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 17th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves.

At 5th level, these bonuses can be used to add any of the following weapon properties: brilliant energy, dancing, defending, disruption, flaming, flaming burst, frost, holy, icy burst, speed.

Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier. These properties are added to any the weapon already has, but duplicates do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. These bonuses and properties are decided when the divine spirit pool point is spent and cannot be changed until the next time the arcane templar uses this ability. These bonuses do not function if the weapon is wielded by anyone other than the templar, and apply to only one end of a double weapon.

An arcane templar can only enhance one weapon in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends. This ability replaces arcane pool.

Templar Arcana: This is exactly like the magus arcane ability, except that the arcane templar may also select from the following new arcana. These temple arcana may be selected by the arcane templar only.

Arcane Commune: The archangel uses the arcane templar's familiar as a conduit to interact more directly with its mortal charge, giving him wise advice. Once per week, the templar may use this link to cast commune as a spell-like ability, at a caster level equal to his arcane templar level. The archanangel speaks to his charge via his familiar or via telepathic contact. To choose this arcana, the arcane templar must be at least 9th level and have the familiar arcana.

Arcane Mercy (Su): The arcane templar chooses one paladin mercy that he can add to his channel positive energy power. This mercy follows all the rules of a paladin mercy, and the arcane templar is considered a paladin of his arcane templar level for all its effects. He can’t choose a mercy that a paladin of his level could not use. The arcane templar must be at least 6th level to choose this arcana.

Arcane Spirit (Ex): The arcane templar’s divine spirit is more powerfully bound to the forces of arcane magic. The arcane templar adds half his Intelligence modifier (round down) to his divine spirit pool. This arcana can be selected up to two times.

Graceful Spirit (Ex): By spending one point from the divine spirit pool as an immediate action the arcane templar gains an untyped bonus to all saving throws equal to his charisma modifier for a number of rounds equal to his intelligence modifier. This bonus cannot stack with itself.

Merciful Gaze (Su): The arcane templar can channel energy through his gaze. The arcane templar’ eyes become pure white-gold and he can use his channel energy power on a single target within 30 feet of him. The amount of damage healed or caused is ½ the touch attack’s effect. An arcane templar must be at least 6th level to select this arcana.

Merciful Hand (Su): At 4th level, the arcane templar can expend 2 points of his divine spirit pool to channel positive energy with his touch. This functions like a paladin’s ability, except it can be used on a single touched creature. Touching a creature against its will requires an unarmed attack. Using this ability is a standard action unless the arcane templar targets himself, in which case it is a swift action. Feats and effects that modify the channel energy ability (like Channeling Smite or Turn Undead) affect this power too, except they specifically require an area of effect. This power doesn't work in conjunction with spell combat or spellstrike. This ability replaces spell recall.

Aura of Courage (Su): At 5th level, an arcane templar gains the paladin’s aura of courage. This ability replaces bonus feat at 5th level.

Aura of Resolve (Su): At 10th level, an arcane templar gains the paladin’s aura of resolve. This ability replaces fighter training.

Merciful Burst (Su): At 11th level, the arcane templar can expend 3 points from his divine spirit pool and use his channeling power to release a burst of energy, similar to a cleric channeling effect. Channeling energy in this way heals or inflicts ½ the damage of the merciful hand attack. This ability replaces bonus feat at 11th level.

Improved Merciful Hand (Su): At 13th level, the connection between the Arcane Templar and the archanangel grows so strong that channeling energy with touch costs only 1 point from the divine spirit pool, while the merciful burst power costs 2 points. Further, the Arcane Templar can use his merciful hand power in conjunction with the spell combat and spellstrike abilities (these still won't work with Merciful Burst). This ability replaces improved spell recall.

Insightful Prayer (Su): At 16th level, the archanangel suggests to the arcane templar a few divine incantations that he can use together with his arcane spells. When the templar prepares his magus spells, he can decide to expend 2 or more points from his divine spirit pool up to his Charisma modifier. For each 2 points he expends, he may treat any one spell from the paladin spell list as if it were a magus spell in his spellbook and can prepare that spell as normal that day. If he does not cast spells prepared in this way before the next time he prepares spells, he loses those spells. This ability replaces counterstrike.

Aura of Dispelling (Su): At 17th level, the arcane templar gains resistance to enemy spells and can grant the same resistance to his friends too. The arcane templar can expend 2 points of his divine spirit pool to grant all his allies within 10’ an holy protection from magic for 1 minute. When a creature with this bonus makes a successful attack against an enemy who’s casting a spell or is under a spell effect, that opponent is subject to a targeted dispel magic attempt as if cast by the arcane templar. If an ally leaves the aura’s range, he can’t benefit of the protection until he re-enters it. This ability replaces bonus feat at 17th level.

Faith Bindings (Ex): At 19th level, anytime the arcane templar casts a spell with a duration of at least 1 round per level, he may spend a point from his divine spirit pool to increase the duration by a number of rounds equal to his Wisdom modifier. This ability replaces greater spell access.

Templar Champion (Su): At 20th level, the arcane templar becomes a true receptacle of divine wrath and arcane power. Whenever he uses his spell combat ability, he does not need to make a concentration check to cast the spell defensively. Whenever the magus uses his merciful hand ability in conjunction with spell combat and the target of merciful hand is the same creature as his melee attacks, as long as the enemy's evil, he can choose to either increase the DC to resist the positive energy by +2, inflict 150% of the normal positive energy damage, or grant himself a +2 circumstance bonus on all attack rolls made against the target during his turn. This ability replaces true magus.

New Arcana: The following temple arcana can be selected by the arcane temple: Arcane Commune, Arcane Mercy, Arcane Spirit, Graceful Spirit, Merciful Gaze.

Arcane Templar Spell List
The arcane templar uses the following spell list to learn and cast his spells.
1st–Level Arcane Templar Spells: bless weapon, burning hands, floating disk, frostbite**, grease, know the enemy**, lock gaze†, magic weapon, mirror strike†, protection from chaos/evil/law, returning weapon†, sanctify corpse**, shocking grasp, sleep.
2nd–Level Arcane Templar Spells:bear's endurance, bull's strength, cure light wounds, daylight, defensive shock**, effortless armor†, frigid touch**, holy shield**, lesser restoration, levitate, litany of defense†, litany of entanglement†, shatter, sound burst, spiritual weapon, vestment of the champion**, word of resolve**.
3rd–Level Arcane Templar Spells: bestow curse, cure moderate wounds, deep slumber, dispel magic, force hook charge**, lightning bolt, litany of righteousness†, litany of warding†, locate weakness†, magic circle against chaos/evil/law, prayer, scorching ray, water breathing.
4th–Level Arcane Templar Spells: archon's aura**, beast shape II, black tentacles, cure serious wounds, haste, ice storm, king's castle*, litany of sight†, remove curse, stoneskin, wall of fire, wall of ice, wall of sound**.
5th–Level Arcane Templar Spells: cure critical wounds, dispel evil, flame strike, litany of thunder†, litany of vengeance†, mark of justice, mass cure light wounds, restoration, stoneskin, telekinesis.
6th–Level Arcane Templar Spells: beast shape III, cone of cold, greater dispel magic, holy sword, mass bear's endurance, mass cure moderate wounds, overland flight, stone to flesh, wall of force, word of recall.
(*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic, †Ultimate Combat)


Also, we should work a little more on the spell list. With a good look, I think everyone can tell exactly what it's up to, but to reiterate;

Healing spells need to come a bit slower than normal, blasting needs to be a bit slow as well; get very few utility magics but the ones they get should be effective and at appropriate levels. Good range of buffs at appropriate levels (excluding Fly, though they get Overland Flight); and battlefield control should be at a premium.

I'm visualizing the end list of spells as being worth casting around twice per average combat to control the fight and get an edge, not to stand there and toss magic for four+ rounds like the Magus can.


I say leave cure light at 2nd, and move cure mod to 4th, and cure serious to 5th, then get rid of cure crit. The paladin doesn't gain that one. I think gaining those spells at the same class level as a paladin, but 1 spell level higher is fine. As for the other spells, what buffs and battle field control spells would you suggest Raider (or Flak)? Any utility you think should go? I'll take a look too, but you guys tend to be the spell aficionados. :D


Any of you guys interested in a Bard/Witch combo that goes for the whole "siren" motif? Give up some bard stuff for hexes and a familiar, maybe; or make a kind of performance based hex and patron?


@Foghammer: OSW has a Wtc/Brd in the works called the Keening Soul, which I think is a siren/banshee style MCA. At least, that's my assumption from the name, and I suggested he go that route with it.


Saw that in the list on the wiki, but there was no link or information on the progress (that I could find). I'll keep an eye on it now, though. Thanks. :D


Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
I say leave cure light at 2nd, and move cure mod to 4th, and cure serious to 5th, then get rid of cure crit. The paladin doesn't gain that one. I think gaining those spells at the same class level as a paladin, but 1 spell level higher is fine. As for the other spells, what buffs and battle field control spells would you suggest Raider (or Flak)? Any utility you think should go? I'll take a look too, but you guys tend to be the spell aficionados. :D

I can work with this, and we'll have Mass Cure Light and Mass Cure Mod at 5th and 6th level to befit the 'stronger spellcasting' still.

I think it's got most of the key battlefield control spells; though I think it might be able to make use of one or two more. Suggestions? I'm thinking maybe tossing on a wizard/sorcerer7 spell or two as 6th level spells for this guy.


Break Enchantment? Stay the Hand? Oath of Peace?


I just wanted to say that I quite like what you guys are doing and to keep it up!


I can work with this, and we'll have Mass Cure Light and Mass Cure Mod at 5th and 6th level to befit the 'stronger spellcasting' still.

I think it's got most of the key battlefield control spells; though I think it might be able to make use of one or two more. Suggestions? I'm thinking maybe tossing on a wizard/sorcerer7 spell or two as 6th level spells for this guy.

Yeah, mass cure light and mass cure mod at 5th and 6th should be fine. As for 7th level sor/wiz spells, I'd suggest a selection from Banishment, Circle of Clarity, Expend, Firebarnd, Rampart, or Walk Through Space.


Can we keep Burst of Speed, Bladed Dash and Greater Bladed Dash?


@Foghammer: if you have a Siren-esque treatment for a Bard/Witch - by all means throw it up - thinking about more, and if I recall correctly, my original concept only went siren/banshee AFTER Elghinn suggested it, as he said above. My Witch/Bard concept was vaguely coastal shanty/sea/pirate/voodoo-gumbo/dark soul-singer. So I think there's definitely room for your concept!!!


All gone away?


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
@Foghammer: if you have a Siren-esque treatment for a Bard/Witch - by all means throw it up - thinking about more, and if I recall correctly, my original concept only went siren/banshee AFTER Elghinn suggested it, as he said above. My Witch/Bard concept was vaguely coastal shanty/sea/pirate/voodoo-gumbo/dark soul-singer. So I think there's definitely room for your concept!!!

I don't really... though I suppose I could work out something. I don't know which I would prefer to make the primary class. Probably witch, with a custom patron and hexes.

Not sure I want to pledge any amount of time into it, since I've no idea how much time I will have, but if you're interested in a framework to go off of, I can definitely do that.


Not gone yet!

Just been busy here, but expect stuff over the week.


So, I liked the Witch Thrall idea enough that I'm posting it here again, as it was last tweaked, for any final criticisms from the MCP Crew.

Witch Thrall:

While all barbarians are suspicious of magic, for some this suspicion results in a deep sense of curiosity over the myticism surrounding the magical arts. As such, these witch thralls, as they are called, are drawn to those who practice the arcane arts, and learn to manipulate eldritch energies through their rage. Once they have mastered this new found power, a witch thrall can hex his foes while raging, and tend to seek out arcane spellcasters in an effort to protect them from harm.

Primary Class: Barbarian.

Secondary Class: Witch.

Alignment: Any nonlawful.

Hit Dice: d10.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The witch thrall may select three witch skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal barbarian class skills. The witch thrall gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The witch thrall is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armor, and with shields (except tower shields).

Superstitious (Ex): At 1st level, the witch thrall gains the Superstition rage power. This ability replaces fast movement.

Raging Hex: Due to a witch thrall’s obsession with the mystic arts, he has learned to channel eldritch power while in the midst of his rage. Starting at 4th level, whenever the witch thrall could choose a rage power he can learn one of the following hexes instead: Cackle*, Charm*, Evil Eye*, Feral Speech**, Fortune*, Healing*, Misfortune*, Nails**, Prehensile Hair**, Scar**, Slumber*, Unnerve Beasts**, and Ward*.

To deliver a hex, the witch thrall must make a single melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus). If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the hex. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range, and adds any other special property effects it may possess, but any damage related hex effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier. The witch thrall uses his witch thrall level to determine the effects and saves of any hex he chooses. For the purpose of any hex with a level or Will save requirement, he treats his witch level as his witch thrall level. A witch thrall can use a hex while in rage.

As a result of his change in focus, the witch thrall’s rage powers become limited. He may only select from the following rage powers: Auspicious Mark†, Body Bludgeon†, Brawler (Greater)*, Brawler*, Celestial Totem, Celestial Totem (Greater), Celestial Totem (Lesser), Chaos Totem*, Chaos Totem (Greater)*, Chaos Totem (Lesser)*, Clear Mind, Come and Get Me*, Disruptive*, Eater of Magic†, Elemental Rage*, Elemental Rage (Greater)*, Elemental Rage (Lesser)*, Energy Absorption*, Energy Eruption*, Energy Resistance*, Energy Resistance (Greater)*, Evil Totem, Evil Totem (Greater), Evil Totem (Lesser), Fiend Totem (Greater)*, Fiend Totem (lesser)*, Fiend totem*, Flesh Wound*, Ghost Rager†, Good Totem, Good Totem (Greater), Good Totem (Lesser), Intimidating Glare, Moment of Clarity, Perfect Clarity†, Renewed Vigor, Renewed Vitality†, Roused Anger, Scent, Spell Breaker*, Spell Sunder†, Spirit Totem*, Spirit Totem (Greater)*, Spirit Totem (Lesser)*, Sunder Enchantment†, Superstition, and Witch Hunter*. A rage power used to target a specific enemy can only be activated when the witch thrall makes a successful hit against an enemy.

At 10th level, a witch thrall may select one of the following major hexes whenever he could choose a hex: Agony**, Hoarfrost*, Infect Wounds*, Nightmares**, and Retribution**. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic, †Ultimate Combat; the Celestial Totem, Evil Totem, and Good Totem rage power trees are described on the MCArchetype Wiki)

Protect the Magic (Ex): The witch thrall's obsession with arcane magic compels him to protect those who wield it. Starting at 4th level, he can bond with an arcane spellcaster in a ritual that takes 1 hour to perform. Whenever the witch thrall is adjacent to his bonded spellcaster, the spellcaster's AC increases by 1. Treat this as a bonus to AC from cover for the purposes of attacks that ignore cover. In addition, the witch thrall treats any creature threatening the bonded spellcaster as an enemy, granting him a +1 morale bonus on weapon attack and damage rolls against that creature for as long as the creature threatens the spellcaster. These bonuses increase by 1 at 9th level and every five levels thereafter, to a maximum of +4 at 19th level. This bond can only be broken by the mutual agreement of both participants or the death of either. If a witch thrall's bonded spellcaster dies, the witch thrall becomes fatigued for 1d4+1 hours and cannot bond with another spellcaster for a 24–hour period. This fatigue cannot be removed except with magic. This ability replaces trap sense and the rage power normally received at 4th level.

Table: Witch Thrall
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special

1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Rage, superstitious
2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Raging hex, uncanny dodge
3rd +3 +3 +1 +3
4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Protect the magic
5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Improved uncanny dodge
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Raging hex
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Damage reduction 1/—
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Raging hex
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Damage reduction 2/—, raging hex
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Greater rage
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Raging hex
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Damage reduction 3/—
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 Indomitable will, raging hex
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Damage reduction 4/—, raging hex
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Tireless rage
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Raging hex
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Damage reduction 5/—
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Mighty rage, raging hex


And here's the Evolutionary Stalker from Crimson (up the thread). Liked this one too. He hasn't posted the evolution choices for each taint type, so I took the liberty of doing it myself. Haven't seen him on the thread for a long time either. Anyway, here's the Evolutionary Stalker where we left off with it.

Evolutionary Stalker:

There are those spellcasters who delve too deeply into the realm of summoning magic, calling forth powerful creatures from other planes of existence, and become enamored by the power they can bestow upon them. Such infatuation often evolves in a physical relationship between the summoner and the summoned creature, and resulting in a strange, half-breed offspring. Over the years, this ancestral bloodline becomes diluted but never truly disappears. On occasion, those of this bloodline possess innate mystical powers or ties to the magical art. But, such spellcasters are not necessarily proud of the heritage they carry in their veins, and a limited few even harbor a deep resentment and turn that hatred outwards. Despite their umbrage, these descendants come to embrace the hereditary gifts given to them through this repulsive union of long ago. Through the subtle stimulation their blood-infused flesh and tissues, they have learned to unlock hereditary powers in the form of physical manifestations that more easily enable them hunt those of the same race as their long dead descendant. Calling themselves evolutionary stalkers, they become more and more like the abhorrent creatures they detest, evolutionary stalkers come to understand their quarry more fully. It is embracing that which they hate, even becoming like their enemy that makes evolutionary stalkers the perfect candidates to hunt and destroy them.

Primary Class: Ranger.

Secondary Class: Summoner.

Hit Dice: d10.

Bonus Skills and Ranks: The evolutionary stalker may select three summoner skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal ranger class skills. The evolutionary stalker gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The evolutionary stalker is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth), and with light armor, but not with shields.

Spellcasting: The evolutionary stalker casts divine spells drawn from the ranger’s spell lists (see below), and adds the following summoner spells to that list at the indicated levels: 1st level–daze monster, protection from chaos/evil/good/law; 2nd level–evolution surge (lesser), protection from energy, spider climb; 3rd level–charm monster, displacement, evolution surge; 4th level–evolution surge (greater), hold monster. The evolutionary stalker’s otherwise learns, prepares, and casts spells as a ranger equal to his evolutionary stalker level. He also receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score.

Favored Enemy (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger’s ability of the same name, except that the evolutionary stalker must select his ancestral taint (aberration, dragon, magical beast, or outsider) as his first favored enemy. In addition, his first favored enemy must always have the highest bonus according to the favored enemy ability.

Ancestral Taint (Ex): An evolutionary stalker’s hereditary bloodline has been polluted by the blood of another creature, either an aberration, dragon, magical beast, or outsider. Outwardly, an evolutionary stalker appears normal for one of his race, but his body and tissues are dependent upon the fusion of this supernatural creature’s blood with his. This ancestral taint grants an evolutionary stalker the ability to assume the base form of his ancestral taint. The evolutionary stalker can assume his base form a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Constitution modifier, as a standard action. An evolutionary stalker can assume his base form for a number of minutes per day equal to his level + his Constitution modifier. These minutes do not need to be consecutive. While in his base form (including evolutions), the evolutionary stalker’s maximum number of attacks per round, whether with weapons or natural weapons, may not exceed that of his base attack bonus. He is also unable to cast spells while in this form. This ability replaces Endurance and wild empathy.

The evolutionary stalker gains darkvision 60 feet and the following base form (see Base Forms in the Eidolon entry of the Summoner class description) according to his ancestral taint.

Aberration: The evolutionary stalker gains the aquatic base form.

Dragon: The evolutionary stalker gains the serpentine base form.

Magical Beast: The evolutionary stalker’s gains the quadruped base form.

Outsider: The evolutionary stalker gains the biped base form and darkvision 30 feet (or +30 feet if the evolutionary stalker has darkvision).

Adaptation (Ex): Beginning at 3rd level, an evolutionary stalker learns how to copy the unusual abilities of his prey. He gains the adaptation ability from the ranger’s infiltrator archetype (see p.126 of the Advanced Player’s Guide), but must select his ancestral taint as his first adaptation. This ability replaces favored terrain.

Evolution: Starting at 2nd level, the evolutionary stalker becomes more like his ancestral taint. He gains an evolution pool with a number of points as shown on Table: Evolutionary Stalker. Points from this pool can be spent on evolutions, like a summoner’s eidolon, but these evolutions are applied to the evolutionary stalker’s base form. These choices are not set. The evolutionary stalker can change them whenever he gains a level where the number in this pool increases. In addition, while in this evolved form, the evolutionary stalker gains a +2 bonus to his natural armor, and a +1 bonus to his Strength and Dexterity scores. These bonuses increase by +2 and +1 respectively at 6th level and every four levels thereafter, to a maximum of +12 to natural armor, and +6 to Strength and Dexterity at 18th level. This ability replaces combat style feats.

An evolutionary stalker can select the following evolutions are determined by his ancestral taint.

Aberration: 1–point evolutions: bite*, claws*, gills*, improved damage*, improved natural armor*, low-light vision**, magic attack*, pincers*, pull*, reach*, resistance*, skilled*, slam*, sting*, swim*, tail*, tail slap*, tentacle*; 2–point evolutions: ability increase*, energy resistance*, grab*, head**, immunity*, keen scent*, limb*, minor magic**, poison*, rake*, rend*, trip*; 3–point evolutions: blindsense*, damage reduction*, frightful presence*, major magic*, see in darkness**, web*; 4–point evolutions: blindsight*, dimension door**, fast healing*, large*, no breath**, spell resistance*, ultimate magic**.

Dragon: 1–point evolutions: basic magic**, bite*, claws*, climb*, gills*, improved damage*, improved natural armor*, low-light vision**, magic attack*, mount*, pull*, push*, reach*, resistance*, scent*, skilled*, slam*, sting*, swim*, tail*, tail slap*, wing buffet*; 2–point evolutions: ability increase*, energy resistance*, flight*, gore*, grab*, head**, immunity*, keen scent*, limb*, minor magic**, poison*, rake*, rend*, tremorsense*, trip *; 3–point evolutions: blindsense*, burrow*, damage reduction*, frightful presence*, major magic*, see in darkness**, swallow whole*; 4–point evolutions: blindsight*, breath weapon*, dimension door**, fast healing*, large*, spell resistance*, ultimate magic**.

Magical Beast: 1–point evolutions: basic magic**, bite*, claws*, climb*, hooves**, improved damage*, improved natural armor*, low-light vision**, magic attack*, mount*, pounce*, pull*, push*, reach*, resistance*, scent*, skilled*, slam*, sting*, swim*, tail*, tail slap*, tentacle*, wing buffet*; 2–point evolutions: ability increase*, energy resistance*, flight*, gore*, grab*, head**, immunity*, keen scent*, limb*, minor magic**, poison*, rake*, rend*, trample*, tremorsense*, trip*; 3–point evolutions: blindsense*, burrow*, damage reduction*, frightful presence*, major magic*, see in darkness**, swallow whole*, web*; 4–point evolutions: blindsight*, breath weapon*, dimension door**, fast healing*, large*, no breath**, spell resistance*, ultimate magic**.

Outsider: 1–point evolutions: basic magic**, bite*, claws*, climb*, hooves**, improved damage*, improved natural armor*, low-light vision**, magic attack*, pincers*, pull*, push*, reach*, resistance*, scent*, skilled*, slam*, sting*, swim*, tail*, tail slap*, tentacle*, wing buffet*; 2–point evolutions: ability increase*, energy resistance*, flight*, gore*, grab*, head**, immunity*, keen scent*, limb*, minor magic**, poison*, rake*, rend*, tremorsense*, trip*, weapon training*; 3–point evolutions: blindsense*, damage reduction*, frightful presence*, major magic*, see in darkness**, web*; 4–point evolutions: blindsight*, breath weapon*, dimension door**, fast healing*, large*, no breath**, spell resistance*, ultimate magic**.

Swift Morph: At 8th level, an evolutionary stalker can assume his base form as a swift action. This ability replaces swift tracker.

Quarry (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger’s ability of the same name, except that the evolutionary stalker gains a +4 insight bonus on attack rolls made against creatures of his ancestral taint instead of the normal +2.

Camouflage (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger’s ability of the same name, except that the evolutionary stalker can use this ability in any terrain, but only against a favored enemy.

Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger’s ability of the same name, except that the evolutionary stalker can use this ability in any terrain, but only against a favored enemy.

Improved Quarry (Ex): This is exactly like the ranger’s ability of the same name, except that the evolutionary stalker’s insight bonus on attack rolls made against creatures of his ancestral taint increase to +6.

True Taint (Su): A 20th level, an evolutionary stalker completely succumbs to his ancestral taint. The evolutionary stalker gains the creature type and the following additional abilities as determined by his ancestral taint. This ability replaces master hunter.

Aberration[i/]: The evolutionary stalker’s internal anatomy has become varied from that of a normal individual of his race and has a 50% chance to treat any critical hit or sneak attack against it as a normal hit. He also gains the Aberration type, and the amphibious special ability.

[i]Dragon: The evolutionary stalker becomes like a walking dragon. He gains the Dragon type and the half-dragon template.

Magical Beast: The evolutionary stalker takes on the qualities of a magical beast. He gains the Magical Beast type, a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dexterity, a +4 bonus to natural armor, and a +4 competence bonus on all Perception, Stealth, and Survival checks.

Outsider: The evolutionary stalker takes on the qualities of an outsider. He gains the Native and Outsider types, and either the celestial, entropic1, fiendish, or resolute1 template as determined by his alignment. (1Bestiary 2)

Table: Evolutionist
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th

1st +1 +0 +2 +2 1st favored enemy, ancestral taint, track — — — —
2nd +2 +0 +3 +3 Evolution (2 points) — — — —
3rd +3 +1 +3 +3 Adaptation — — — —
4th +4 +1 +4 +4 Hunter’s bond 0 — — —
5th +5 +1 +4 +4 2nd favored enemy 1 — — —
6th +6/+1 +2 +5 +5 Evolution (4 points) 1 — — —
7th +7/+2 +2 +5 +5 Woodland stride 1 0 — —
8th +8/+3 +2 +6 +6 Adaptation, swift morph 1 1 — —
9th +9/+4 +3 +6 +6 Evasion 2 1 — —
10th +10/+5 +3 +7 +7 3rd favored enemy, evolution (6 points) 2 1 0 —
11th +11/+6/+1 +3 +7 +7 Quarry 2 1 1 —
12th +12/+7/+2 +4 +8 +8 Camouflage 2 2 1 —
13th +13/+8/+3 +4 +8 +8 Adaptation 3 2 1 0
14th +14/+9/+4 +4 +9 +9 Evolution (8 points) 3 2 1 1
15th +15/+10/+5 +5 +9 +9 4th favored enemy 3 2 2 1
16th +16/+11/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Improved evasion 3 3 2 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +5 +10 +10 Hide in plain sight 4 3 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +6 +11 +11 Adaptation, evolution (10 points) 4 3 2 2
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +6 +11 +11 Improved quarry 4 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +6 +12 +12 5th favored enemy, true taint 4 4 3 3

Silver Crusade

I live!

Anyway I love what you did with the Witch Thrall, i can really get a good feel for the concept I came up with and easily see how more balance it is. you have my vote

as for the evolutionary stalker I also like it.


Quintin Belmont wrote:

on a different note here's my Witch/Cleric MCA:

** spoiler omitted **...

Anyone created a Monk/Sorcerer type? Are there plans for an expansion in which the Advance Players Guide base classes are included?

Due to both casting spontaneous chma based spells an Oracle/Sorcerer or Sorcerer/oracle would also be nice.


I have my own question, is anyone going to do an alchemist/inquisitor or an inquisitor combination? And if not, any suggestions on how to do it?


@mage4fun: Here is the Master list of MCAs either completed or under construction.

MCA wiki Master list

We have a Dead Shaman (Sorceror Oracle) currently...

@Vero: we haven't worked in either of those but it's a damn fine idea...
First I'd work ou the base idea: Inquisitor with alchemist abilities or Alchemist with Inquisitor abilities?

Then, if the former, which Inq abilities do you want and what can you see dropping for which alchemist abilities. So do you want Judgments/inquisitions or teamwork stuff? Discoveries or mutagens?

Same goes for the latter option...

Basically, do you want a mutating teamworker or a inquisitioning discovery-jock or a mutating inquisitioner or a inquisitioning mutator or a....

Once you've worked that out we've got something to go on.

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