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Sorry Elghinn, what I was trying to get across is that barbarian powers and your zealous myrmidon have very similar abilities mechanically. It might be easier to determine the class balance by plugging in the abilities into a barbarian chassis and zeal powers into the rage power locations. I don't think the fluff would have to change any.
Of course, you might be looking for something more similar to this-
I quitted some time ago because I couldn't seem to find a way to fix my Heretic Theologist- and the Barehanded Warden idea was still too confused.
Vero, we've got LOADS of options. But if you really want to help, you can maybe peek in at a few of our more lackluster early MCA's that may need a helping hand.
For example, we're currently in the process of fixing up the White Witch, a Paladin/Witch that was originally nothing more than Lay on Hands slapped onto a witch chassis.
Now she's a potent healer who can lay buffs and debuffs down with equal ease, send off healing bursts, and can- at the height of her power- even call forth a tremendous miracle- in exchange for losing her most potent companion! Expect to see her on the wiki rather soon.
Yeah, that would be very helpful! Essentially, anything with "In Editing" in the Master MCA list on the wiki is looking to be revamped a bit. There are a number of those that have been revamped on a preliminary basis by Me and OSW/Cartmanbeck earlier in the year when things were really slow.
That said, if you are bent on taking a hand at a new MCA, email me at my gmail account (see my profile) and I can get you a table with all the open MCAs. Just make sure you designate your PF thread name.
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Well I started something, this is my first post on this forum because I'm looking for help
That is my Nightblade build, It's a primary Ninja Class with a secondary Cleric, though I think it may be a bit further off the MC archetype scale than I started out with.
The Class is a Necro-Ninja so to speak, I'm not sure on a capstone as it seems to be really powerful as it is. this is my first time building a class in any of the 3e variations
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Thanks man I look forward to seeing revisions
A few questions Dustyboy, before I do my revisions. I know it's a Ninja/Cleric MCA, but is it focused primarily on ninja stealth, etc., or is it supposed to be a heavy spellcaster. This will determine the swap-outs of abilities.
If it's primarily ninja-esque, then likely spells up to 4th level is the way to go. Otherwise, if it's a heavy caster it'll likely be a hybrid caster with up to 6th level spells, instead of the 9th level spells.
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
I'd say it would be somewhere around 60 or 70% ninja and the rest would be spellcasting.
I thought about it earlier today and thought that maybe the spell list could be restricted to only what is given by domain spells (Scaled to work with the class) and then a small variety of spells could be gained through taking tricks to gain 2-3 additional.
I also considered restricting spells per day via ki point spending, as in a Nightblade uses Ki to access spells instead of divine channeling through a god (As in he rips the power from evil forces and uses it by spending ki points)
I did consider the capstone being reanimation based.
I'm afraid to plug these ideas in at the moment since I'm not too good with balancing as of yet
@Dustyboy: Wow. There is certainly a lot going on here, and I can see that you have put a lot of time and thought into creating the backstory - the Golarion/Red Mantis nemesis stuff etc. I think I have to agree with your own assessment that this is further offthe Multiclass Archetype scale.
* I really like the concept of a Ninja/Cleric - in my mind, before reading your google sheet I thought - wow, cool! The more spiritual arm of the ninja brotherhood, as opposed to a Cleric/Ninja which sounds more like the special forces of a particular religious sect. What I get from your Nightblade is more like an avenging superstealth warrior with amazing powers AND a lot of spell use. I know you and Elghinn are alread fine tuning, so I'll leave the spells ou for the moment. Mostly I'm talking flavour and concept within the MCA framework - this is after all a multiclass archetype thread. :)
*If you are set on leaving the Golarion specific flavor then there is little I can recommend or even critique - your handling of the source material has served you well in coming up with the concept - the problem for me becomes one of specialisation. Where possible we try not to make too many niche MCAs - I am probably the most guilty of doing so. As the Nightblade stands it feels like a Ninja/Paladin - though mechanically it may have all the bells and whistles of a Ninja/Cleric the style of avengig super ninja dude doesn't seem to evince anything cleric-like to me. Perhaps your domain tweaks may do this - right now I'm feeling more Batman than anything else. (I'd actually consider Batman to be a Paldin/Ninja/Alchemist/Monk with some construct-tweaked Synthesis Summoner but there's already a thread devoted to that can of worms...)
*Nightblade is way too specific for me. Again, this sounds like a campaign specific concept, but we create MCAs for as broadscale use as possible. So what if i want to use this proto-MCA but want to use a spiked chain? Or pick? Or mace? As it is, I get the Night part, but the blade is too generic and doesn't refer at all to an kind of clerical theme...
Please don't think I'm tearing strips with malice here, I am really fond of the basic campaign specific concept, and love the Ninja/Cleric idea. However, we are in the game of creating MCAs and this doesn't seem to be one yet... I'm sure Elghinn will help you out - I can only offer critiques from an MCA perspective.
* Has a *lot* of class skills. Feels like Batman. And Alfred. And Lucius Fox. And all their interwebz.
* The Aura is confusing - is it aligned? It just says "Aura" as the heading.
* I don't quite follow the channeling - it has to be negative. Why? I really like the Variant channeling note - shows your attention to detail and that you have thought this through enough to identify contingencies.
* The channel strike that burst out to 30' is an awesome visual and a cool power, bu I don' get a feel for why it happens. It also seems kinda OP in the midst of all the other kewl powarz the Nightblade is getting.
Hope this is found to be constructive! :)
I tried to make a contrast, where a Cleric serves a deity and a ninja serves a grand master, A nightblade serves an Ancient grand master (Presumably somewhere along the lines of Demon lords and the like)
The theme was put there for a bit of flavor, I agree that it could be left a little more vague though I had intended that to be the baseline "Intro-lore"
Yes it's way too powerful, i've been actively trying to weaken the spellcasting but as a gamer I'm a natural maximizer and It's hard for me to see base values as ever "High enough", a problem I believe some of us have had when making our first Multiclass archetype (As stated on the link to the guide, it's an artform)
As far as the Channel Energy, it's in need of scaling back. My vision of it was to be somewhat akin to channeling the energy through a sneak attack, thus replacing the sneak attack with the equivalent of a channel energy.
Would it be better off for me to replace Uncanny Dodge with that ability?
As for spells I feel it should be weaker than a ranger or inquisitor but have access under the right conditions (taking specific tricks and therefore not gaining Martial bonuses at later levels to gain small amounts of ki spells)
I do want this to be an MC archetype, though like a Paladin, I think an undead hunter isn't too Niche, My original goal was to be within the prerequisite of "A stealth based cleric who is built around a combination of decent proficiency with his weapon of choice, and some magics in the schools of Illusion/evocation/Necromancy" (more specifically having to do with shadow, reanimation, and negative energy)
I fealt Nongood cleric with CG cleric ideals meshed well with ninja in this way. my adaptations just seem to be to blurring.
as for the Title, a Nightblade is an older and generally forgotten class, but was once as real as the modern "Shaman" or "Avenger" classes (Commonly seen in games) I've only recently seen it in tES series with a take on it in Diablo III, and I've seen it in a few comics, thus why it does have a comic-bookesque to it.
I do like your critiques though, they're helping me to try and rework numbers and chop out the steroids of the class.
I'm glad OSW has piped in, he usually has great feedback on things. Like him, I really like the concept of the Nightblade" a name that can be changed anytime, but we'll stay with it as a working name for now. I really see this MCA as an infiltrator of evil organizations, using their evil powers for the greater good. But, like some undercover cops involved in the DEA of similar organization become corrupted or "tainted" by the very power they are using to destroy their enemies. In essence, becoming a little like those they despise, so as to more easily infiltrate them, and work against themfrom the inside out. I'll be posting my revisions soon, and I hope I've captured what you are looking for. Either way, it should be a good place to work from if we wish to revise things further.
OK, here he is.
Primary Class: Ninja.
Secondary Class: Cleric.
Alignment: Neutral good, chaotic good, neutral, or chaotic neutral
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The night shroud may select six cleric skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal ninja class skills. The night shroud gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The night shroud is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the kama, katana, kusarigama, nunchaku, sai, shortbow, short sword, shuriken, siangham, and wakizashi. The nightbalde is also proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
Spellcasting: A night shroud casts divine spells drawn from the night shroud spell list, and adds his domain spells at the indicated spell levels. Like other spellcasters a night shroud can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His daily allotment of spells is given on Table: Night Shroud. He also receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score. A night shroud otherwise prepares and casts spells as a cleric equal to his night shroud level.
Aura Shroud (Su): A night shroud blurs the line between the powers of darkness and light, which comes at a cost. At 1st level, whenever a night shroud is subject to a detect evil to determine his aura’s power, he is considered to have no aura.
Starting at 2nd level, a night shroud becomes tainted by the dark magics he employs in his battle against evil, and is considered to have a faint aura of evil, regardless of his true alignment. Thus, a night shroud often finds it difficult to be trusted by potential allies, such as paladins or inquisitors, but it allows him to remain hidden or incognito while in the presence of his enemies (at the GM discretion). To allow a night shroud to more easily gain the trust of such allies, he gains the divinely grant ability to shroud or hide his aura for a number of minutes per day equal to his level and functions as the undetectable alignment spell. These minutes do not need to be consecutive, but must be used i 1-minute increments. This ability replaces poison use and light steps.
Orisons: A night shroud can cast orisons, or 0-level spells as a cleric.
Sneak Attack (Ex): This is exactly like the ninja ability of the same name, except that a night shroud deals 1d6 extra damage at 1st level, and an additional 1d6 every three ninja levels thereafter, to a maxium of 7d6 at 19th level.
Domain: At 2nd level, a night shroud gains the cleric’s domain ability except that he can only choose one of the following domains (or subdomains): Darkness (Night), Death (Undead), Destruction (Torture), Evil (Fear), or Trickery (Deception). This ability replaces sneak attack +2d6, +5d6, +8d6, and ninja tricks gained at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th level.
Ki Pool (Su): This is exactly like the ninja ability of the same name, except that starting at 4th level, a night shroud can spend 1 ki point to cast one of the following spells with the evil descriptor of the indicated spell level: 1st level—infernal healing, inflict light wounds, protection from good; 2nd level—align weapon (evil), desecrate, dread bolt, inflict moderate wounds, shared sacrifice; 3rd level—agonize, ki leech, magic circle against good, vampiric hunger; 4th level—infernal healing (greater), shadow projection, unholy blight. The night shroud must expend a spell slot of the appropriate spell level to cast the spell.
Ki Channeling (Su): At 5th level, a night shroud can spend 2 ki points to channel energy like the cleric’s ability of the same name, except that the night shroud uses 1/2 his night shroud level as his effective cleric level when channeling energy. A night shroud can channel positive energy or negative energy, but he must choose which energy type to channel at the beginning of each day. The night shroud must also choose whether he will be affected as a living being or an undead for the purpose of his channeling effects. Once each of these parameters is chosen, they cannot be changed until the next time he rests to regain his daily spells. This also remains in effect until the 24 hour period has passed. This ability replaces no trace and lightsteps.
Master Tricks (Ex): At 12th level, whenever a night shroud could select a ninja trick, he can choose a master trick instead.
Master of the Shroud (Ex): At 20th level, a night shroud’s capacity to deceive his enemies into think he is one of them is greatly enhanced. A night shroud’s personal sacrifices in carrying out the greater good grants his soul total protection from becoming truly corrupted. His alignment can never be changed to evil by any means, except through divine intervention or of his own choosing. In addition, he undergoes the following changes to his class features:
• Aura shroud now functions as a constant undetectable alignment spell.
NIGHT SHROUD SPELL LIST
0-Level Night Shroud Spells—bleed, detect magic, detect poison, disrupt undead, ghost sound, guidance, haunted fey aspect, light, read magic, resistance, stabilize, touch of fatigue, virtue.
1st-Level Night Shroud Spells—bane, bless, cause fear, chill touch, comprehend languages, cure light wounds, deathwatch, detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law, disguise self, divine favor, doom, endure elements, entropic shield, forbid action, interrogation, know the enemy, magic aura, magic weapon, protection from chaos, protection from evil, protection from law, ray of enfeeblement, remove fear, shadow weapon, shield of faith, silent image, vanish, ventriloquism.
2nd-Level Night Shroud Spells—align weapon (chaotic, good, lawful), bear’s endurance, blessing of courage and life, blur, bull’s strength, consecrate, cure moderate wounds, darkness, death knell, false life, ghost disguise, ghost touch, invisibility, minor image, mirror image, misdirection, phantom trap, resist energy, restoration (lesser), scare, shatter, shield other, silence, spectral hand, spiritual weapon, status, undetectable alignment, unshakable chill, weapon of awe.
3rd-Level Night Shroud Spells—bestow curse, blessing of the mole, contagion, cure serious wounds, daylight, deeper darkness, dispel magic, displacement, glyph of warding, healing thief, howling agony, illusory poison, invisibility sphere, magic circle against chaos, magic circle against evil, magic circle against law, major image, protection from energy, ray of exhaustion, remove curse, remove disease, speak with dead, vampiric touch, water breathing, water walk.
4th-Level Night Shroud Spells—aura of doom, blessing of fervor, chaos hammer, cure critical wounds, death ward, divine power, enervation, false life (greater), fear, freedom of movement, holy smite, invisibility (greater), magic weapon (greater), neutralize poison, order’s wrath, repel vermin, rest eternal, restoration, shadow projection, shadow step, spell immunity, spiritual ally.
Table: Night Shroud
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
I really love what you did man, you took practically all of my hopes for it and improved them 10 fold in the sense of balance and keeping it to being MCA, if you ever decide to put this up on the site I'll smirk whenever I hear someone talking about it.
Also you've taught me a bunch of good tips on what to really look at when making the archetypes, I might mess around with a few more Ideas and post the worthy ones.
Sounds good. Now, just a warning, I do tend to be OP even when attempting to balance, so the other member of the MCP crew may provide additional tweaks if the check it out. Otherwise, I plan on presenting this one to the gang and run it through our revision gauntlet. Then repost it in its finalized version. If it makes it, you'll find it on the wiki with the original concept credited to you as "Dustyboy", as is proper. So, give this a run, and let us know how it playtests.
A fix Dustyboy.
1) Aura Shroud should replace poison use only, lighsteps is replaced by Ki Channeling.
And her's a code I did up for them, based on your writeup.
Code of the Shroud: While night shrouds do not adhere to a strict set of rules, they endeavor to hold to the following tenets of the order. Foremost, a night shroud must weigh every action, ensuring that the ultimate goal of eliminating evil is achieved above all else. Do all within his power to defend the weak and helpless from unjust rule. Never bow to a king or worldly ruler–for kings do not have divine rule. Always strive to eliminate the worship of evil deities through whatever means necessary. Never turn from a great threat of evil or tyranny but seek to dispose of it. Do not allow personal dignity or self-respect to interfere with removal of a great threat. Never foolishly throw away his life, for a night shroud is far too valuable to the cause. Avoid slaying an agent of good, unless no alternative presents itself and the agent is of less value than himself in the ultimate cause in the fight against evil.
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
I like it, i think we should put an alignment change restriction and some flavor textOn how they generally are anle to use divine
On another note, i'm goin to get some practice
Half orc with the rouge/barb/summoner/pali mcarchtypes will be where i start
For those just hitting the thread (Big Lemon!), here is our MultiClass Archetypes Wiki site. Check it out. Lots of MCAs to choose from.
As to the Alignment change restriction, Dustyboy, do you mean eg. "A night shroud can never be lawful or evil." OR something else, like the Ex-Paladin section?
Here's the Flavor Blurp I have. Again, scavenged from your write-up.
As to your thought of doing Racial Archeype MCAs, that may far more difficult than you think. MCAs on their own can be, let alone adding in a racial aspect. But give it a go.
FYI, Oceanshieldwolf, my MCA comrade has a Racial Archetypes thread HERE
I have a concept for an Oracle/Summoner: Spirit Bonded. A summoner that forms a bond with an ethereal creature from the outer planes, whether an incorporeal outsider, the spirit of an ancestor, or something else entirely. For a certain number of rounds per day, they bond with the spirit as the Synthesist Summoner archetype does.
Meanwhile, I'd like to present a new MCA of mine for review and critique. Hopefully I'll get some feedback from my fellow MCPers. Just warning, there is a lot here.
Primary Class: Alchemist.
Secondary Class: Magus.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The rune caster may select three sorcerer skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal magus class skills. The rune caster gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The rune caster is proficient with all simple weapons, with light armor, but not with shields.
Spellcasting: A rune mages does not cast spells like other spellcaster, but instead inscribes runes (see Rune Tokens) that duplicate the effects of arcane spells. A rune mage casts arcane runes drawn from the magus spell list and the alchemist formulae list, and adds the following spells to her list at the indicated spell level: 0 level—arcane mark; 1st level—erase; 2nd level—symbol of mirroring**; 3rd level—explosive runes, glyph of warding, rune of durability±, rune of warding±, secret page, sepia snake sigil; 4th level—symbol of revelation**, symbol of slowing **; 5th level—symbol of scrying**; 6th level—greater glyph of warding. (**Ultimate Magic, ±Dwarves of Galorian) A rune mage is restricted from casting any alchemist spells that affect potions or extracts.
Like other spellcasters a rune mage can cast only a certain number of runes of each spell level per day. Her daily allotment of runes is given on Table: Rune Mage. She also receives bonus runes per day if she has a high Intelligence score. A rune mage otherwise prepares runes as an alchemist equal to her rune mage level prepares extracts.
Alchemy (Su): Rune mages are masters of creating mundane alchemical substances and gains a competence bonus equal to her rune mage level on the Craft (alchemy) check. In addition, a rune mage can use Craft (alchemy) to identify ceramic, crystal, or glass items as if using detect magic. She must hold the item for 1 round to make such a check. A rune mage cannot create mutagens, extracts, or bombs. This ability and rune tokens replace the alchemist’s alchemy ability.
Scribe Scroll: At 1st level, a rune mage gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. This ability replaces brew potion.
Explosive Runes (Su): In addition to creating rune tokens, a rune mage is adept at swiftly creating powerful explosive runes that she can hurl at her enemies. A rune mage can create a number of explosive runes each day equal to her rune mage level + her Intelligence modifier.
Explosive runes are unstable, and if not used in the round they are created, they degrade and become inert—their method of creation prevents large numbers of explosive runes from being created and stored. In order to create an explosive rune, the rune mage must inscribe a rune on a specially prepared rune stone—the rune mage can create these rune stones from small river stones, sling bullets, tokens, or anything of equal size and shape that can be thrown or hurled. Most rune mages prepare a number of rune stones at the start of the day equal to the total number of explosive runes she can create in that day—once prepared, a rune stone remains usable by the rune mage for years.
Inscribing an explosive rune on a rune stone and throwing it requires a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Thrown explosive runes have a range of 20 feet and use the Throw Splash Weapon special attack. Explosive runes are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. On a direct hit, a rune mage’s explosive rune inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the rune mage’s Intelligence modifier. The damage of a rune mage’s explosive rune increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered rune mage level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike). Splash damage from a rune mage explosive rune is always equal to the explosive rune’s minimum damage (so if the explosive rune would deal 2d6+4 points of fire damage on a direct hit, its splash damage would be 6 points of fire damage). Those caught in the splash damage can attempt a Reflex save for half damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the rune mage’s level + the rune mage’s Intelligence modifier.
Rune mages can learn new types of explosive runes as bomb discoveries (see the Discovery ability) as they level up. A rune mage’s explosive runes, like rune tokens, become inert if used or carried by anyone else. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces bombs.
Rune Tokens (Su): In addition to alchemical substances, a rune mage can fashion small chips or tokens of polished stone or ceramic etched with a rune on which to store spell effects. In effect, a rune mage prepares her spells by inscribing runes onto a number of tokens, and then “casts” her spells by releasing their effects from within the token. When a rune mage inscribes a token with a rune, she infuses the token with a tiny fraction of her own magical power—this enables the creation of powerful effects, but also binds the effects to the creator. In many ways, rune tokens behave like spells in stored form (similar to a ring of spell storing), and as such their effects can be dispelled by effects like dispel magic using her rune mage level as the caster level.
Although the rune mage doesn’t cast spells in a conventional manner, she does have a rune list that determines what runes she can create. A rune mage can utilize spell-trigger items if the spell appears on her rune list, but not spell-completion items (unless she uses Use Magic Device to do so). A rune is “cast” by breaking or shattering the token, which requires a standard action—the effects of a rune mage’s token exactly duplicate the spell upon which its rune is based. The rune mage uses her level as the caster level to determine any effect based on caster level. Creating tokens consumes raw materials, but the cost of these materials is insignificant—comparable to the valueless material components of most spells. If a spell normally has a costly material component, that component is expended during the consumption of that particular rune inscribed token. Runes cannot be made from spells that have focus requirements (runes that duplicate divine spells never have a divine focus requirement). A rune mage can prepare a token of any rune she knows.
To learn or use a rune, a rune mage must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the rune’s level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a rune mage’s runes is 10 + the rune’s level + the rune mage’s Intelligence modifier. A rune mage may know any number of runes. She stores her runes in a special tome called a rune book. She must refer to this book whenever she prepares a token but not when she activates it.
A rune mage begins play with all 0-level runes and two 1st level runes of her choice, plus a number of additional runes equal to her Intelligence modifier. At each new rune mage level, she gains one new rune of any level that she can cast. A rune mage can also add runes to her book just like a wizard adds spells to his spellbook, using the same costs and time requirements. A rune mage can study a wizard’s spellbook to learn any rune that is equivalent to a spell the spellbook contains. A wizard, however, cannot learn spells from a rune book. A rune mage does not need to decipher arcane writings before copying them. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces the rune mage’s extract ability.
Arcane Runes (Su): At 2nd level, a rune mage gains a reservoir of arcane energy that she can draw upon to fuel her runic powers. This arcane pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 her rune mage level (minimum 1) + her Intelligence modifier. The pool refreshes once per day when the rune mage prepares her spells. A rune mage can use her arcane pool to create the following rune effects.
At 2nd level, a rune mage can expend 1 point from her arcane pool as a swift action to create a blast rune in any adjacent square. Any creature entering this square takes 1d6 points of damage + 1 point for every rune mage level she possesses. This rune deals either acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage, decided when the rune mage creates the rune. The rune is invisible and lasts a number of rounds equal to her rune mage level or until discharged. A rune mage cannot create a blast rune in a square occupied by another creature. This rune counts as a 1st-level rune for the purposes of dispelling. It can be discovered with a DC 26 Perception skill check and disarmed with a DC 26 Disable Device skill check.
At 5th level, a rune mage can expend 1 point from her arcane pool as an immediate action when a creature triggers one of her blast runes. When a creature is damaged by a rune mage’s blast rune, it cannot attack her for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 her rune mage level unless it succeeds at a Will save, as per the spell sanctuary. This does not prevent the rune mage from being attacked or affected by area of effect spells or abilities.
At 9th level, a rune mage can expend 1 additional point from her arcane pool to attach any rune she can cast to her blast runes, causing that spell to affect the creature that triggers the rune, in addition to the damage. This rune must be of at least one level lower than the highest-level rune the rune mage can cast and it must target one or more creatures. Regardless of the number of targets the rune can normally affect, it only affects the creature that triggers the rune. This ability changes the magi’s arcane pool class feature and replaces mutagen and persistent mutagen.
Discovery (Su): This is exactly like the rune mage ability of the same name, except that a rune mage can select a discovery at 2nd level and every three levels thereafter. Any bomb discovery she chooses is applied to her explosive runestones. Also, whenever a rune mage could select a discovery, she can select a magus arcana in place of a discovery.
A rune mage is restricted to the following discoveries: Blinding Bomb**, Concussive Bomb*, Confusion Bomb**, Defoliant Bomb±, Delayed Bomb*, Explosive Bomb*, Fast Bomb*, Immolation Bomb†, Inferno Bomb*, Precise Bomb*, Shock Bomb*, Smoke Bomb*, Sticky Bomb*, Stink Bomb*, Strafe Bomb*, and Sunlight Bomb**. A rune mage may also choose from the following magus arcana by Super Genius Games: Enruned Dagger, Enruned Great Weapon, Greater Enrune Dagger, and Greater Enrune Great Weapon.
In addition, a rune mage can choose one of the following cipher lore from the Cyphermage prestige class (see Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic) in place of a discovery or magus arcana: Analyze Scroll, Bypass Symbol, Defensive Scrollcaster, Enhance Scroll, Extended Scroll, Focus Scroll, Glyph Finder, Insightful Scroll, Rune Trap, Swift Scrivener, or Swift Scroll.
Inscribe Runes: At 3rd level, a rune mage gains Inscribe Runes as a bonus feat. This ability replaces throw anything.
Rune of Power (Sp): Starting at 3rd level, a rune mage learns the secret of powerful rune magic established by an ancient mystic cabal known as the Runelords. These magical runes of power can temporarily be inscribed upon a single individual (or object) for a 24 hour period or until activated, whichever comes first. Each rune grants the recipient certain benefits for a number of minutes equal to the rune mage’s level. Once inscribed, the recipient can activate the rune as a spell-trigger item or by the rune mage as indicated in its description. Unless noted otherwise, the effect of a rune of power lasts for 1 minute per level of the rune mage that inscribed it, and affect only the recipient.
At 3rd level, and every six levels thereafter, a rune mage learns one of the following runes of power.
Rune of Authority: The bearer of this rune is cloaked in an illusion of authority. Others perceive the bearer to be a legitimate figure of authority—a higher-ranking official, a religious figure, a more powerful warrior. This illusion grants you a +5 bonus on all Diplomacy and Intimidate checks. If the bearer attempts to disguise himself as a specific authority figure, he gains a +10 competence bonus on the Disguise check and any Bluff check related to impersonating that authority figure. In addition, others are uncomfortable acting against the bearer of the rune. Creatures with an Intelligence of 4 or more must make a Will save or take a –2 penalty on all opposed checks against the bearer. This rune can be activated by the bearer. The rune mage must be at least 3rd level to learn this rune of power.
Rune of Compulsion: This rune plants a subconscious directive in the bearer’s mind that forces him to act as the rune mage dictates when specific circumstances arise. The bearer can be either conscious or unconscious, but must understand the rune mage’s language. Upon inscribing this rune, the rune mage must state a course of action she wishes the bearer to take. This course of action must be described in 20 words or fewer. Rune magemust then state the condition under which the rune mage wishes the target to take this action, also describing it in 20 or fewer words.
Actions or conditions more elaborate than 20 words cause the rune to fail. A rune of influence cannot compel a target to kill himself, though it can compel him to perform exceedingly dangerous acts, face impossible odds, or undertake almost any other course of activity. The rune mage cannot issue new commands to the target after the rune is inscribed.
If the bearer fails his save against this rune, he is not compelled to act in any way, has no knowledge of the details of the spell affecting him, and has no memory of the last 10 minutes (although he might come to notice the missing time or the presence of the caster).
He can function as he wishes until the events the rune mage detailed as the condition takes place. Upon experiencing the prerequisite condition, the bearer is forced to perform the course of action the rune mage described as per the spell dominate person. For the next hour, the bearer acts as the rune mage dictated, doing all it can to fulfill her command. If, at the end of the hour, the bearer still has not completed the rune mage’s command, the bearer is released from the enchantment and the rune ends. Once the course of action is completed the rune ends. The bearer has full memory of acts performed during this hour.
For example, a rune mage might use a rune of compulsion on a farmer, giving him the order “murder the king” to be acted upon “when you hear church bells strike noon.” Thus, the next time the bearer hears church bells strike noon, the enchantment activates and for the next hour he does all he can to murder the king in the most effective way possible, with the spell ending either when the king is dead or the hour passes. How the bearer acts is wholly relative to the individual and the circumstances. This could lead the bearer to perform an assassination attempt or, if he’s some distance away from where he thinks the king is, ride for one hour at full speed towards the land’s capital.
It’s difficult to detect a rune of compulsion. Casting detect magic on someone affected by this rune only reveals an aura of enchantment magic if the caster of detect magic has a higher caster level then the caster of the rune. Even if the rune is detected, it can only be removed by break enchantment, limited wish, remove curse, miracle, or wish. Dispel magic does not affect a rune of compulsion. This rune is activated by the prerequisite condition detailed by the rune mage. The rune mage must be at least 12th level to learn this rune of power.
Rune of Contingency: The bearer of this rune gains the effects of the feather fall and water breathing spells. In addition, if the bearer of the rune is reduced to 0 or fewer hit points and is not killed, the rune is immediately activated and he turns into a cloud of vapor as per the spell gaseous form for 5 rounds. He remains conscious during this time, but after 5 rounds returns to his normal form and is unconscious and dying. This rune can be activated by the bearer. The rune mage must be at least 6th level to learn this rune of power.
Rune of Conveyance: The bearer of this rune can summon a floating, semi-real palanquin for 1 hour per level of the rune mage that inscribed it. This conveyance has all the special abilities of a phantom steed and can hold the bearer and up to 150 additional pounds of weight. Other creatures can ride the palanquin as long as the total weight is less than 150 pounds. The palanquin can be dismissed at any time as a free action. The look of the palanquin is decided when the rune is inscribed, though it usually takes the form of a regal, comfortable-looking litter that moves without the need for bearers. This rune can be activated by the bearer. The rune mage must be at least 15th level to learn this rune of power.
Rune of Inscrutability: The bearer of this rune confuses all attempts to divine information about him. This functions as a permanent misdirection spell, which the bearer can change the target of (and thus what he is detected as) at will. In addition, whenever the rune’s bearer enters an area affected by a divination (scrying) effect or anytime a creature casts a divination (scrying) spell that targets him, the scrying spell’s caster must make a DC 18 Will save. If this save fails, the rune’s bearer realizes that he is being scryed upon, knows what spell is in effect, and knows the name of the spell’s caster. This rune can be activated by the bearer. The rune mage must be at least 6th level to learn this rune of power.
Rune of Obedience: Designed as a foolproof means of ensuring absolute loyalty, even from those ordinarily immune to compulsion and mind-affecting magic, this rune is infused with a single specific prohibition when first inscribed. This prohibition must be stated in 10 words or fewer and the bearer must agree to it of his own free will. From then on, if the bearer breaks this prohibition, he is afflicted with searing pain, taking a –4 penalty on attack rolls, skill checks, and ability checks for as long as he is in violation of the prohibition and for 5 minutes thereafter. This rune affects any creature who agrees to bear it, and can be activated by the rune mage. The rune mage must be at least 9th level to learn this rune of power.
Rune of Razing: This rune grants the bearer the ability to ignore hardness and damage reduction for the duration of the rune’s effect. This rune can be activated by the bearer. The rune mage must be at least 12th level to learn this rune of power.
Rune of Resistance: This rune grants the bearer resistance 5 to two energy types chosen at the time that the rune is inscribed. At 9th level, this resistance increase to 10. This rune can be activated by the bearer. The rune mage must be at least 3rd level to learn this rune of power.
Rune of Spell Pilfering: Anytime a harmless (so noted by a spell’s saving throw description) spell of 3rd level or lower is cast by a spellcaster within 30 feet of the bearer of this rune, he may choose to immediately gain the benefit of that spell as if it had also targeted him. The intended target still gains the effect of the spell. This rune can be activated by the bearer. The rune mage must be at least 9th level to learn this rune of power.
Rune of Spell Power: The bearer of this rune can cast spells at a higher caster level. The bearer gains a +1 bonus to his caster level for the next spell he casts. At 12th level, this bonus to caster level increases to +2, at 18th level this bonus increases to +3. This rune can be activated by the bearer. The rune mage must be at least 6th level to learn this rune of power.
Rune of Susceptibility: Three times per day, the bearer of this rune can cause a creature he touches to take a –4 penalty on all Will saves made against spells of the enchantment school for the next 24 hours. This rune can be activated by the bearer. The rune mage must be at least 9th level to learn this rune of power.
Rune of Wrath: This rune forcibly repulses all creatures within 30 feet of the bearer, an object, or a location. The rune is triggered whan any creature not designated as an ally comes within 5 feet of the bearer or site of this rune. All creatures within the effect’s area take 1d6 points of force damage per level of the rune mage that inscribed it (maximum 15d6) and are subjected to a bull rush that attempts to push them directly away from him. The blast’s bull rush effect is treated as having Strength 25 + the rune mage’s Intelligence modifier, but gains no other bonuses for size or charging. The rune mage, bearer, and any designated allies are unaffected by both the rune’s force damage and bull rush effect. This rune is activated by any creature within 5 feet of the rune that is not designated as an ally of the bearer or inscriber of the rune. The rune mage must be at least 12th level to learn this rune of power.
Upon reaching 6th level, and at every three rune mage levels thereafter (9th, 11th, and so on), a rune mage can choose to learn a new rune of power in place of one she already knows. In effect, the rune mage loses the old rune in exchange for the new one. The new rune’s level must be the same as or lower than that of the rune being exchanged. A rune mage may swap only a single rune of power at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap a rune at the same time that she gains a new rune of power. This ability replaces bomb 3d6, 5d6, and 7d6, swift alchemy, swift poisoning, and instant alchemy.
Runestrike (Su): At 3rd level, a rune mage can inscribe any rune she knows from the rune mage rune spell list upon any weapon she is wielding as part of a melee attack, once per day. The rune mage can then make one free melee attack with her weapon (at her highest base attack bonus) as part of inscribing the rune. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage plus 1d6 points of extra damager per level of the rune. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the extra damage only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier. A rune mage can use this ability twice per day at 10th level, and three times per day at 17th level. This ability otherwise functions as the magi’s spellstrike ability and replaces poison use and poison resistance.
Bonus Feats: At 6th level, and every six levels thereafter, a rune mage gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as item creation or metamagic feats. She must meet the prerequisites for these feats as normal.
Grand Rune (Su): At 20th level, a rune mage’s knowledge of rune magic greatly increases. The rune mage can choose two additional discoveries, magus arcana, or cipher lore of her choice. In addition, the rune mage can select one of the following spells which she can inscribe onto her rune tokens as a 7th level rune once per day: guards and wards, instant summons, planar binding, symbol of fear, symbol of pain, symbol of persuasion, symbol of sealing**, symbol of sleep, symbol of stunning, symbol of weakness. This ability replaces grand discovery.
Table: Rune Mage
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
I love it, seems like it could be trimmed down a bit as far as the text though.
I think the explosive rune feature is a bit much, Maybe replace it with a mutagen variation? Like inscrubing runes on himself that activate specific mutagenic qualities?
or just putting a hard cap on how many explosives he can have, such as spells not recovering until the stone has been expended and the mage has rested.
There is a hard cap on the explosive runes. "A rune mage can create a number of explosive runes each day equal to her rune mage level + her Intelligence modifier. " This ability essentially function like an alchemist's bomb ability, including number of bombs per day.
As for "mutagenic" runes, I didn't want anything mutagenic in this baby.
This one took me a few days to really work out. Glad you like it.
It does state they can last for years, I immediately thought "Stockpile explosives"
I have something by the way
How about a Ranger/Wizard Archetype?
Call it "Crossbow Mage"
Require arcane crossbow style (Crossbow style meets school of the gun)
In place of on half the feats will be restricted versions of a spell school.
Arcane familiar can be combined with Animal companion as "Arcane Companion"
the player chooses a Familiar and an animal companion of the same type (Say "hawk familiar" and "Bird" companion)
In place of a level advancement the arcane companion will gain both the abilities of a familiar and the abilities of an animal companion, special: companion will stack with animal companion classes or familiar classes.
Hey I like the Rune Mage concept Elghinn! I don't have time to parse it out but the flavor you have achieved is awesome - a nice tweak and expansion of the alchemist's creative bag as it were.
@Big Lemon - really nice idea, and yes, as Elghinn said, identify the swaps and we can close in on mashing up an MCA.
@Dustyboy - Crossbow mage sounds cool if a lityle specific. I like the arcane familiar idea.
True, I was just thinking the archetypal low level Wizard of 3.5 and 3e... and thought "What if we made him physically stronger?"I wanted to stray away from making a Magus with a pet or another version of summoner.
Possibly even going so far as to split the spell allotment in half and give that other half to the pet?
The other side of this is that the crossbow works as a nerf in a way, since you need heavy feat investment to make them work.
I guess we could diversify it a little by allowing a two weapon variation of it, that specializes in Mage hand and two crossbows (Two weapon fighting and a class ability that scales specifically for reloading with a magical force)
Name swap idea, Wild Mage or "Magic Marksman"
Further balance idea, familiar can be dismissed, when dismissed you gain access to higher level spells (9th level) but still can only spend half allotment.
I do see Arcane bond and Hunter's bond being merged.
Maybe a second option for that would be to give +1 to attack rolls against all targets to allies within 30 feat for rounds equal to the ranger, scaling without a terrain or favored enemy, but only up to 2 on attack rolls and gaining a +1 on damage rolls at fifth and fifteenth level?
Do up your initial write-up, and post it. I'm intrigued with the splitting of spellcasting between master and familiar, likely lower level spells to familiar, and higher stays with master. Then you essentially have two casters coordinating as one. Unless I'm getting the concept wrong. I picture a caster with a familiar able to cast/access his spells (restrict to lower level). Could also limit access to higher spells when familiar is present, like I believe you suggested. That way, they can tandem cast, but only with lower level spells, or simply restrict the master to "Tandem Casting" with spells of 3rd or lower, otherwise only the master can cast spells. Ooo, I'm liking this concept.
Name: Don't go with Wild Mage, it'll illicit an image of a spellcaster using wild magic and doing random effects like a wand of wonder. Spell Marksman? Arcane Hunter? I could see (Rgr/Wiz) specializing in sniping with certain spells, such as ray-oriented spells. Could have also have some of the ranger abilities (Track, Camouflage, etc.), affect his familiar/arcane companion.
Like I said, get you concept basics nailed down, what you want for abilities, and we can hammer this out.
Hmm, yes that is an oversight. Goo catch freduncio. Guess we'll need to fix that. I think the best thing to do will be to add a caveat into his Arcane Bond ability. something like...
"The runecarred fury's arcane bond, regardless of which bond is chosen, allows her to cast arcane spells while in rage without any ill effects. All other restrictions pertaining to skills, actions, and abilities requiring patience or concentration apply as normal while raging."
This way, all he can do is cast his spells while raging, but still restricts him from the other things rage restricts you from doing. makes it neat and tidy, but still keeps most other restrictions.
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Well I'll do that and one more.. You gave me an idea "Wilder mage" I'll take this and add in a random spell effect system... it will be based around the arcane school of the crossbow.
Think how the arcane archer can apply spells, now randomize this a bit and change the effects. First attack could be something along the lines of an elemental 1st level spell, 1d2 (Rolled element) damage and then the effect for duration=1/2 caster level
maybe acid could weaken armor, cold could slow, electric could disarm (No duration on that),fire would deal ongoing fire damage equal to the d3 rolled on the spell.
I'm going to work on this and post it probably tomorrow.
as for the arcane familiar, if you take the improved familiar feat, the familiar gains a random template each day, based on a roll
Big Lemon wrote:
Could simply use the reloading hands spell as the mechanic, able to activate it a number of times per day, but only with a bonded or favored weapon? No need to try and create a new effect/mechanic when there is an official one that can be used. :D
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote:
Didn't know about this spell, definitely go with that.
Here's where I am so far,
I'm still banging things out in my mind as I go
An <Name> is an archetype of the Ranger class
School of the hunt: At second level, a <NAME> gains oneSchool of the Hunt gaining new abilities at 2nd, 6th, and 14th levels, and bonus feats at 2nd, 10th, and 18th level
Balance: a <NAME> who choses the balance school becomes a master of the calm perfection of nature, she gains the Arcane sniper combat style.
At 2nd level, an <NAME> the ability to place an area spell upon a Crossbow bolt. When the Crossbow Bolt is fired, the spell's area is centered where the crossbow bolt lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the caster to use the crossbow's range rather than the spell's range. A spell cast in this way uses its standard casting time and the <NAME> can fire the bolt as part of the casting. The bolt must be fired during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted. If the bolt misses, the spell is wasted.
in addition whenever she applies a metamagic feat to an attack this way, she may reduce the level increase cost by 1 for every five ranger levels she possesses, to a maximum of 5 at 20th level
This ability replaces Favored Enemy I, II, III, IV and V
At 2nd level the <NAME> can chose between the following bonus feats, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.
at 6th level the <Name> may cast reloading hand with a caster level equal to his Wilder-mage as a swift action a number of times equal to 1 plus her wisdom modifier, and may fire that bolt as a free action as part of a ranged attack.
Chaos:A name has learned the unpredictability of the wilds, and has gained valuable lessons from their teaching.
Things to replace:
Things to gain
Spirit Bonded Summoner:
Spirit Bonded Summoner: Sometimes, wether through freak accident or a right of birth, an seemly insignificant individual with only minor magical talents makes an inexplicable connection with a spirit from the outer planes. This spirit may have been an ancestor of the Spirit Bonded Summoner in its past life, or the summoner may have some special quality that makes him "worthy". Whatever the case, the Spirit Bonded Summoner has the ability to fuse this powerful spirit into his very being, allowing the two to become one being. Over time, as his connection to the spirit grows, the summoner may unlock more of it's power.
Primary Class: Summoner
Weapons and Armor: Proficient with all simple weapons and light armor. Can cast arcane spells without incurring arcane spell failure chance while wearing light armor.
-The Spirit Bonded Summoner chooses spells known from the Cleric spell list, however these spells are arcane in nature.
-Spirit Bond: This functions as the Fused Eidolon class feature of the Synthesist archetype, except that the Summoner must choose a specific type of aligned outsider at 1st level from the following list that influences abilities gained later. After this choice has been made, it cannot be changed. A Spirit Bonded Summoner must have the same alignment as the chosen outsider:
-Fused Link: This functions as the class feature of the Synthesist summoner archetype.
-Mystery: At 4th level, the Spirit Bonded Summoner chooses an oracle Mystery. This functions as the Oracle class feature of the same name, except that the summoner's choice in mysteries is limited by the type of Outsider chosen at 1st level: good aligned summoners cannot choose Bones or Dark Tapestry. Evil aligned summoners cannot choose Nature or Life. The summoner chooses one revelation from the chosen mystery at 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th level. This replaces Shield Ally, Transposition, Greater Shield Ally, and Merge Forms
-Twin Eidolon: This functions as the Summoner ability of the same name, except that a copy of the Eidolon appears in an unoccupied, adjacent space.
I'm not sure what to use to Replace Master's Call with, or Summon Monster (if anything).