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Ashiel's Guide to Adventure Preparation


Advice

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8 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Staff response: no reply required. 180 people marked this as a favorite.

I love the nature of adventuring. Adventuring has traditionally been a very dangerous if lucrative profession. Adventurers die, and die, and die some more. Some are lucky enough to only have to die once. What separates the adventurers that make it from the ones who were just another party that never returned? Well, I think creativity and preparation make the largest difference. I didn't think much about this sort of thing, until Peter Stewart said the following in another thread.

Peter Stewart wrote:

Honestly some of your tactics here have given me a great deal to think of for future characters. I'd be interested in a general thread on purchases you think are viable or needed at various levels, along with various tricks. A heightened continual flame hadn't even occurred to me, for instance.

My party could use some more asymmetrical means of combating such problems, as right now our tendency is to bully through them using brute force (usually taking tons of damage and expending tons of resources in the process). We're coming up on a long period though were we'll be able to resupply and reequip. :)

So since Peter asked, here's the beginning of a short advice column concerning D&D/Pathfinder and preparing for adventure. I'm cool with people asking questions or advice or tips on specific things; and I'll also answer questions concerning D&D 3.x as well (though I may have to reference the 3.0 SRD for particularly old school stuff, to make sure I'm not blurring too much).

As a simple disclaimer, I want to let everyone know that the advice below will assume that the standard rules are in play. It doesn't assume house rules or changes to the system. Just the goods, plain and simple. If your GM has any quirks concerning item availability, changes any spells, or otherwise alters something, YMMV.

Enough babbling, on with the tips!
========================================================================

Introduction: Adventuring is a hard life. Few take up its call. Those who make it, go down as legends, and retire wealthy and with many amazing stories. Those who do not, inevitably forge their own stories as the ones who just survived, or never came back, or was the one that didn't make it. Yes, adventuring is a hard life. A life that takes you by surprise. The key to surviving isn't just about whose muscles are largest or who knows the most spells. Preparation, and clever thinking, can lead you to greater degrees of success. Shall you brave the dangers and come out on top, or be another tavern tale of the ones who never came back?

The first installment covers some general adventuring equipment.

Motel 6: There are a lot of monsters and enemies who like to spam darkness spells (and deeper darkness). Creatures like tieflings, drow, shadow demons, darklings, and dark folk are notorious for this. Many people complain that this is unfair; especially since most of these creatures either care nothing about the lighting condition's drawbacks, or can see through them fine (such as in the case of darklings and dark folk). So what is an adventurer to do?

Light spells (that is, the light subtype) such as light, continual flame, and daylight pierce magical darkness spells that are a lower level than themselves. A good adventuring tool is to have an item or two that has had a heightened continual flame spell cast on it to at least 4th level. That costs 330 gp including the material component, to have it purchased by NPC spellcasting. Suddenly, the legions of darklings and dark folk are nothing to you, as your continual torch (be it a torch, amulet, or even your belt buckle) shimmers and provides light that is unquenchable by spells such as darkness or deeper darkness unless they are also heightened. Since spell-like abilities are the level of the spell they are mimicing, that means a 4th level continual flame is never overpowered by a creature's SLAs.

I'm most fond of having continual flame cast on the inside of a locket, so you can conceal or reveal the light easily enough, and carry it without having hands free.

We'll leave the light on for you!

First Aid: There's a lot of terrible things that will hurt you in your adventuring career. Poisons, disease, incorporeal touch attacks. A lot of this stuff can leave you weathered, or even dead. So how do you deal with these things? How do you prepare for them away from the comfort of civilization?

Buy potions of delay poison and lesser restoration for 50 gp each. Yes, you heard me, 50 gp. Both are 1st level spells at 1st caster level, thanks to Paladins and Rangers. That sets the price of these items at 50 gp. The magic item creation rules clearly state that the value of magic items are based on the lowest possible caster levels, regardless of who makes 'em; so even if a cleric makes either, they're still only worth 50 gp.

Both potions are useful for helping a party keep up and going. Delay poison makes you immune to poison for 1 hour and ends poisons, but won't cure any of the ability damage taken beforehand. Lesser restoration removes ability penalties, heals 1d4 ability damage, and removes fatigue. Good potions all around to have on hand during an adventure.

+1 Swords? We don't need no stinkin' +1 Swords: Magic weapons are expensive, but sometimes you just need one. DR/Magic is pretty common, incorporeal creatures are a pain, that wizard is getting you down with protection from arrows; but you don't feel like shelling out 2,000 gp for what amounts to +1 damage over a masterwork blade?

Well magic weapon oils are 50 gp, and they last 1 minute at caster level 1. The oil can be applied to a melee weapon, ranged weapon, or poured right into a 50-stack ammunition sack. This is one of the main methods for 1st-3rd level PCs to even be able to combat incorporeal creatures like Shadows with any hope. Works for monk unarmed strikes as well. Since you can decide which weapon to apply it to, it's less of a gamble; as if you need it on your melee weapon, you use it on your melee; if you need it on your bow, you use it on your bow; and so forth.

Lay off the Juice Son: Okay, so steriods aren't a to be abused, but oils were made for it. You can apply an oil to a willing target during your turn. Having several party members slather down the party's melee with cheap potion effects can turn a fight really fast. Have one PC slather him or her with an oil of enlarge person, then the rest of the PCs apply oils like protection from evil or shield (I recently checked, yes you can make potions of shield, as personal range spells still declare you as a target), and expeditious retreat (see commentary about shield, above), true strike (see above, yadda-yadda), and remove fear.

Suddenly, you have a juggernaut of destruction, at the cost of 50 gp per potion. Best yet, the person you apply the oil provides you with soft cover if you come in directly behind them in relation to the enemy, which means enemies cannot make AoOs against you for applying the oil. Notice I mentioned using enlarge person first? Well there's a reason for that. Your ally expands, providing cover to the other PCs who jump in to apply oils.

For a 200 gp investment, you can hit your main tank with up to 4 solid buffs all in one round, many of which normally are only available to mages. Screw aid another. 50 gp can get your party's fighter a +20 to his next grapple check, which can end a fight instantly (hint: the penalty to bind up an enemy during a grapple is -10).

Right to Freedom of Alignment: Ok, let's face it. Sometimes your alignment bites you on the butt. It's great being a good guy and all, except when you're trying to infiltrate that evil cult that has the "No Paladins" sign hanging out side. So what's the poor poorly aligned fellow to do? Drink a potion. 50 gp nets you 24 hours of undetectable alignment. Thanks bards!

Alchemy? Alchem-you!: Alchemical goodies can often be overlooked, but they can be pretty useful, especially at low levels; but some are useful even at higher levels. Turn some vicious villains into trivial trials with a clever splash of chemical supremacy!

Alchemical weapons such as alchemist fire or acid flasks are beautiful when used by the whole party. They ignore damage reduction and target touch AC. They're ranged weapons, so they benefit from feats like Point Blank Shot, and Rapid Shot. They can be dual-wielded as well. By having your party focus-fire on a single tough cookie, you can bring them down to size in short order. For example, let's say you're facing down an enemy NPC in banded mail and carrying a tower shield. His AC is easily 22-23 at 1st level. Excellent time for a BBQ wrapped in tinfoil! Have everyone toss an alchemist fire. A 4 person party can easily land 4d6 damage on round 1, and another 4d6 on round 2 (from the burning). Sucks to be that guy!

Tanglefoot bags are amazingly good. Chuck a few of these at people or creatures you just don't like. It's an auto-entangle, which is already a petty nice debuff, but also threatens to glue them to the ground, prevent them from flying, and forces tough concentration checks to cast spells. Worst case scenario, the critter is still slowed by 1/2 its speed.

Probably the most overlooked alchemical item is the humble smoke stick. Cheap, and surprisingly effective. Unless wind conditions are much against you, dropping one of these lets you use Stealth as if you were a Ninja Turtle collecting bells, gain total concealment vs ranged attacks, and ruins sneak attacks. Yes, ruins sneak attacks. You can't sneak attack a target with concealment. You can drop a single smoke stick at your feet and even if you're surrounded by 20th level rogues, blind, and in the dark, you're immune to their sneak damage. Excellent against dirty roguish sorts, and even prevents an assassin's Death Attack. Brutally efficient.

Holy water. The anti-shadow. At 25 gp a pop, this stuff is kind of like acid of alchemist fire for undead and evil outsiders. Incidentally, it specifically affects incorporeal creatures as well. It deals 2d4 damage as a ranged touch attack that doesn't provoke attacks (see item description) if you shake the water at the enemy. 2d4 averages 5 damage, which means a 1st level party can tear a shadow apart by just running up and splashing it with holy water. Statistically, 4 holy waters will outright kill a shadow (and less should force the shadow to flee for its unlife), and frankly, 100 gp for a dead CR 3 enemy seems entirely reasonable to me! The fact it also deals splash damage, and is party friendly is double the fun. Alchemists even get to add their Intelligence modifier to the damage, allowing them to take apart some truly nasty critters in short order.

Aw, Nets: Nets are arguably one of the strongest weapons in the core handbook. They deal no damage, but are a non-magical ranged touch attack (meaning even the -4 non-proficiency penalty isn't so bad usually) which inflicts the Entangled condition on the target, and all that implies. To escape it, you must spend a full-round action to even attempt to be free (either via a hard Strength check or a DC 20 escape artist), which means that either an enemy has to deal with it, or waste actions to be free. Hitting the same enemy with multiple nets in the same round almost ensures the condition will remain for the entire encounter; because no one wants to spend round after round trying to de-net themselves.

Who you gonna call?: A good investment for anyone who really hates incorporeal creatures is a +1 ghost touch net. Valued at 8,000 gp, it's not a terribly expensive tool if the entire party chips in to get it. Why is this tool so great? Well it has full effect on incorporeal creatures, who auto-fail on Strength checks to move away from you (allowing you to control how far they move away from you), and since it counts as both corporeal and incorporeal, you can prevent them from moving through objects while ensnared in your net. Entangled is also a sucky (if rare) condition for incorporeal creatures, as they rely heavily on Dexterity for both offense and defense (-2 to attacks and -4 Dex means -4 to incorporeal touch attacks and -2 AC) and most thrive on improved mobility which is outright denied in this case.

I'll try the 9 Iron: Golf-bagging is often a complaint by some of the casual gamers. Personally, I love golf-bagging. I like having that extra weapon on hand for a particular occasion. Ever look at the Pathfinder iconics? Loaded with seemingly random assortments of weapons, with obvious spares and backups. Golf bagging has lots of advantages.

Grab a cold iron, silver (or mithral), and maybe adamantine weapon. Carrying them allows you to bypass the DR of virtually anything. Definitely have an assortment of silver and cold iron arrows (they're cheap and easy enough to store/carry). It's cheaper to carry lots of +2 weapons of different materials than it is to carry one or two +3 weapons, and it makes you less of a target vs sundering or shattering (because who bothers with that when you've got a backup weapon in easy reach?).

You can go a very long way with just different material weapons and a greater magic weapon spell to keep your hit and damage top notch. It's also easier to rely on special materials for all the low CR enemies who require things like silver or cold iron to hit (such as imps, quasits, lycanthropes, or fey).

It's not magic, it's brains: There's a lot of very mundane methods for dealing with magical effects that suck. One of my favorites is the bag of chalk. A piece of chalk is 1 copper piece. A hundred pieces of chalk is thus 1 gold piece. Crush the chalk up into chalk powder and store it in cloth bags with a tie. Now you have the perfect weapon against invisible people. Have you ever seen the clingy puffy mess that chalk dust makes just when you're dealing with basic chalk erasers in school? Now imagine grinding up 100 pieces of standard issue chalk and scattering it through the air. You'd create a nice 10 ft. cloud of super clinging dust. Better than flour for spotting invisible creatures! Anti-invisible grenades, for 1 gp. Eat that Will o' Whisp.

Clay jugs are pretty heavy when filled, but are pretty useful. Their obvious use is for carrying large quantities of water or similar liquids (ideally packed on burden beasts such as mules, horses, or oxen), but can often be adapted for adventuring purposes. They can just as easily carry coins and the like, or you could place food in them, fill them with black powder to make a bomb (if your campaign has such fare), create weapons or traps with them (fill them with spiders, scorpions, snakes, or whatever), or even keep potted plants in them (carrying around your own plants makes the entangle spell useful in the most amusing places). At only 2 copper pieces, you can figure out what to do with them later. Flasks are 3 coppers with similar uses.

Keeping a few vipers in a state of sedation (via nonlethal damage, sleep spells, or other means) can be a good method of extracting lots of injury poison for the budding assassin, alchemist, or other poison using character. Just milk their glands for poison daily. Finding and keeping vipers isn't usually very difficult for adventurers. In fact, the clay pots can be useful storage devices in this case. If someone has a viper familiar, you could just ask nicely for venom.

His name is Babe: Paul Bunyan had the right idea. Oxen rock as animal cohorts. They're cheap at 15 gp and share statistics with aurochs. They are large quadruped beasts of burden with impressive strength, which means they can carry some truly astounding loads. They are also beefy and dangerous in combat. They have gore attacks for 1d8+9 damage and can even trample. Training them for war is not a bad idea for someone with Handle Animal. Have the party ride around on these strong beasts with high Constitution, and just dare something to try and harass your mounts while you rest. For a good 1-4 levels, the oxen will be more dangerous than your PCs. You can train 3 of them at a time, and cover them in leather or studded leather barding on the cheap.

Oxen cost 15 gp, have a 40 ft. movement speed, +9 Perception, low-light vision, scent, +7 gore at (1d8+9), trample (2d6+9, DC 17), and the following carrying capacity: 600 lb. light, 1,200 lb. medium, 1,800 lb. heavy, 9,000 lb. push/drag. Horses are so last season.

=========================================

I'm going to pause here for a moment. I'm not even finished with equipment, but I need a bit of a break. ^-^"

Andoran

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On the potions:

"Spells with a range of Personal cannot be made into potions."

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but potions of shield are as-of-yet undeveloped technology.


You can make elixirs with craft wondrous items and make elixirs of shield.


Axebeard wrote:

On the potions:

"Spells with a range of Personal cannot be made into potions."

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but potions of shield are as-of-yet undeveloped technology.

I do so curse the scattered rules in this game. The potion rules themselves clearly state that potions can be made from any spell that targets one or more creatures. The magic section specifically says that you are targeting yourself when you cast a spell that says "You"; thus when I was double checking my advice; I checked both Magic and Potions; but the potion rules themselves made no such mention. *facepalm*

Feel free to ignore all advice based on that mistake.

EDIT: See what I mean?

PRD - Potions wrote:

A potion is a magic liquid that produces its effect when imbibed. Potions vary incredibly in appearance. Magic oils are similar to potions, except that oils are applied externally rather than imbibed. A potion or oil can be used only once. It can duplicate the effect of a spell of up to 3rd level that has a casting time of less than 1 minute and targets one or more creatures or objects. The price of a potion is equal to the level of the spell × the creator's caster level × 50 gp. If the potion has a material component cost, it is added to the base price and cost to create. Table: Potions gives sample prices for potions created at the lowest possible caster level for each spellcasting class. Note that some spells appear at different levels for different casters. The level of such spells depends on the caster brewing the potion.

Potions are like spells cast upon the imbiber. The character taking the potion doesn't get to make any decisions about the effect—the caster who brewed the potion has already done so. The drinker of a potion is both the effective target and the caster of the effect (though the potion indicates the caster level, the drinker still controls the effect).

The person applying an oil is the effective caster, but the object is the target.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

This is very useful! Well done!


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For those who want to avoid the 9-iron issue, there is a reasonable solution.

Assuming you get simple weapon proficiency, you can keep a morningstar in your back pocket. This is actually one of the niftier weapons in the book. It is not all that heavy (6 lbs), has a very nice base damage die (d8), and is both Bludgeoning and Piercing (thus taking care of two types of DR). Combine this with a slashing weapon, and you've got all your basic damage types covered. If you only have simple weapon proficiency, then I suggest a Sickle to go with it, as it's a decent weapon, and has a trip ability.


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Always take a sling.

It's free, it allows strength bonus to damage, it has good range and everyone can use it (worse comes to worse you can pass it to the wizard if need be) -- besides you aren't likely to get extra attacks at lower levels anyways (at higher levels switch to a bow of course -- but keep the sling).

A few ranks in craft(leatherworking) means you will just about always be able to make a sling and therefore have a quick means of getting rearmed if you happened to be captured or something.

Shadow Lodge

Dot


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Abraham spalding wrote:

Always take a sling.

It's free, it allows strength bonus to damage, it has good range and everyone can use it (worse comes to worse you can pass it to the wizard if need be) -- besides you aren't likely to get extra attacks at lower levels anyways (at higher levels switch to a bow of course -- but keep the sling).

A few ranks in craft(leatherworking) means you will just about always be able to make a sling and therefore have a quick means of getting rearmed if you happened to be captured or something.

Also, unlike bolts & arrows, a sling only has a 30% miss chance on things like wind wall.

Andoran

Awesome idea!

Some supplementary advice:

When golf-bagging, also make sure to have weapons to do all three varieties of damage, since you will need to fight something like skeletons or zombies with DR/Bludgoning or something similar at some point. This is even somewhat doable with arrows, as blunted arrows (found in the APG) do Bludgeoning damage and are no less effective than regular ones.

This being the case, make sure any silvered weapons are Bludgeoning (and make sure any silvered arrows are blunted), so they don't lose that -1 damage.

And for people concerned about thematics (or weight allowances), in an emergency you can cover the whole concept adequately (if not ideally) with around two or maybe three backup weapons, one of which can be a dagger.


Cestus and gauntlets are your best friends -- reach out and hurt someone -- lethally.


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I highly recommend a quick read of the goods and services list to uncover some real gems of ideas. Things like:

Flash powder and the "spark" cantrip. Lots of smoke. Also firecrackers and "spark" = instant diversion.

Casting plaster. My witch used this to create a duplicate royal seal from a wax impression and was able to successfully counterfeit the royal seal using his plaster copy. Five pounds for 5 silver, cheaper, faster and easier than chalk dust (actually it's more or less exactly the same thing as chalk dust, but cheaper and higher quality).

String and bells to set up alarm warnings around your camp at night.

Fishhooks and string can be used for many things, including actually fishing with them.

It's late but there's a lot more you can do with the stuff that most stores carry as staples.


Where are you getting the stats for an ox?


Ninja Dot - The stealthy kind of dot.

I'm eager to hear what else you come up with.


Ashiel wrote:
Buy potions of delay poison and lesser restoration for 50 gp each. Yes, you heard me, 50 gp. Both are 1st level spells at 1st caster level, thanks to Paladins and Rangers. That sets the price of these items at 50 gp. The magic item creation rules clearly state that the value of magic items are based on the lowest possible caster levels, regardless of who makes 'em; so even if a cleric makes either, they're still only worth 50 gp.

Are you sure?

prd wrote:


The price of a potion is equal to the level of the spell × the creator's caster level × 50 gp.

Note that some spells appear at different levels for different casters. The level of such spells depends on the caster brewing the potion.

Mr Cleric would be 300gp, not 50gp.

The table is also odd because it says the price of a potion is equal to the level of the spell × the creator's caster level × 50 gp.

A 1st level spell isn't actually available to a Ranger until level 5ish... so how are they making potions at level 1 if they can't cast the spells yet? Can a level 1 Wizard craft a potion for a 3rd level spell?

Potions of Delay Posion are firmly listed as 300gp in the rules. I guess that sort of makes the point.


Shifty wrote:
A 1st level spell isn't actually available to a Ranger until level 5ish...

The answer to your question shall be anther question:

What is his caster level when he can first start casting spells (at 4th level by the way...)?


Don't forget to put your spare minotaur in your handy dandy dungeon master's kit.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shifty wrote:


A 1st level spell isn't actually available to a Ranger until level 5ish... so how are they making potions at level 1 if they can't cast the spells yet? Can a level 1 Wizard craft a potion for a 3rd level spell?

Potions of Delay Posion are firmly listed as 300gp in the rules. I guess that sort of makes the point.

PRD wrote:


Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is equal to his ranger level – 3.

Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is equal to her paladin level – 3.

They've got a disconnect between the posted rules for potions, and the cost tables. A ranger and paladin are caster level 1 when they get some of those spells (see above).

They really should re-write the spells to give each spell a 'base level' to avoid this. Additionally, some spells that are level 5 or 6 for wizards/clerics/sorcerers/druids are level 4 spells for paladins and rangers, making them valid potion spells.

The cost of a potion should be independent of what class makes it, and what level they get the spell at. Each spell should have a 'base level' and 'base caster level' that is used to calculate the cost of potions, wands, scrolls, staves, etc. This would remove 80% of the complexity of such items, and simplify the cost table to one column.


Pathfinder Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Alternately, they could set up a 'hierarchy' of spell levels.

Creating Potions, Wands, and Scrolls
When determining the cost and level of a spell for creating a spell completion item, use the level and cost of the spell per the first class on the following list that has the spell on it's default list.

1) Wizard
2) Cleric
3) Druid
4) Bard
5) Paladin
6) Ranger
7) Lowest level/caster level other 9 level casting class
8) Lowest level/caster level other 6 level casting class
9) Lowest level/caster level other 4 level casting class

Note that Sorcerer is left off, as they get spells one later level, and wizards get access to all spells a sorcerer does.


I have to say: Mundane gear is awesome!
I would add silver weapon blanch to the buy list. Its cheap, and getting that hit with your best weapon is worth it.

Also, throwing weapons w/ a blanch can be stored indefinitely.

An error: IIRC Potions are priced by priority- If its on the Wizard, cleric or druid list, it uses their pricing first.


Brambleman: that is only for PFS.


Dot and Faved.

Ashiel, seriously.... Yeahp. Awesome posts as usual...

I'll be back after I snag myself some chicken tacos... To share some creative uses for Chains, Iron Spikes, Rope, and Firewood.


So a potion of Delay Posion would be 300gp made by a 2nd level cleric, yet a 4th level Ranger making it would be only 50gp?

That's kinda cheezy, but rules is rules.

Although I do find the text:

The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the potion: 25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.

Seems to be a bit misleading then.

The level of the caster is 4, yet my caster level is 1.

Semantics gone wild :p


On a side note, I do like these types of threads, always good to see how people use the load lists and gear.


The masterwork backpack comes highly recommended.

I'd also like to give an honorable mention to Muleback Cords.


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I'd like to add a couple of items here...

Rope: Seriously, you can circumvent so many issues at earlier levels with hemp rope, a little imagination, and a lot of strength. Everything from rope bridges, tying up baddies, and keeping wagons together. It is the duct tape of the fantasy realm.

Breaking and Entering: Second, and something that I have taken a loving to only recently, is the crowbar. It is the fighter's way to pick locks and is incredible for cracking things open that your party's lockpicker can't normally open. A tombcover, for instance, or a locked metal door. Plus, if you go against a DR/Bludgeoning creature, the crowbar makes a decent make-shift weapon if you happen to not have a club. My bard once brained a Faceless Stalker to death using a crowbar, Arcane Strike, and a little attitude. A battering ram is also awesome for taking down doors and can have two people use it to drop through a door.

A Good Pick, Ya Dig?: Pickaxes and shovels are great for getting around locked doors in dungeons. With a little time, effort, and some friends, you can simply circumvent a dungeon door. Not good if you are on a time limit though but a okay for dungeon delving. Also, the pick is great for coup de gracing a poor helpless shmuck. As a GM, I do allow the shovel to be either slashing (the sharp side) or bludgeoning (the flat side) but ask your GM if it's okay. I don't see it as an issue.

A Friendly Game of Darts: You want to be an assassin right? Get a blowgun! I've seen a rogue and alchemist use this to amazing effect. It's a simple weapon and you can apply poison on your darts easily. Plus, it is silent which is an excellent plus for more stealthy missions.

Who Says Non-Lethal Isn't Fun?: And if you are going to get nets, may as well get a mancatcher and some bolas. A mancatcher is a reach weapon that touch attacks someone and then grapples them. It is more limited to the size, usually humanoids of medium and small size. But, it's reach so you do not provoke attacks of opportunity, and if given to your strong muscle, it will hit and grapple the person. Not to mention it is a DC 26 to break it. At level one, you'd be hardpressed to find someone that can beat that. Bolas are great for closing in on prey. That's a ranged trip attack that can't provoke, and it's not an attack roll you make but a CMB roll. Meaning, your high strength fighter doesn't have to worry about not having a great dexterity to land this. Using bolas, nets, and mancatchers, I created a formidable hobgoblin slaver squad that captured the PCs in an adventure. It had caught them completely surprised when these things that were doing non-lethal damage had instead overpowered them. Now, imagine that being used on the enemy. It makes capturing for interrogation that much easier.

I hope these additions help Ashiel.


Need to dot this for future reference. Just seems that the DMs around me are upping the antes when it comes to lethality and the need to think outside the box, which I don't actually mind since it's good for the brain and all.


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About ropes...

In one of my earliest adventures I recall a woman who was playing a "rogue" when we came to a chasm that was 150ft deep that we needed to climb down and go back up. We were short 50' of rope from what the rest of the party could scrap together and we asked to use her rope to add to what we had.

She didn't have rope.

When asked why she responded, "I'm not THAT kind of rogue."

We were all briefly annoyed in character but OOC we all had a good laugh that we couldn't get past this chasm because "She isn't THAT kind of rogue." lol


Lune wrote:

About ropes...

In one of my earliest adventures I recall a woman who was playing a "rogue" when we came to a chasm that was 150ft deep that we needed to climb down and go back up. We were short 50' of rope from what the rest of the party could scrap together and we asked to use her rope to add to what we had.

She didn't have rope.

When asked why she responded, "I'm not THAT kind of rogue."

We were all briefly annoyed in character but OOC we all had a good laugh that we couldn't get past this chasm because "She isn't THAT kind of rogue." lol

Rule 1 of DnD: Always have rope.

Rule 2 of DnD: ALWAYS HAVE ROPE!!

:)


Some very creative stuff here, Ashiel. Marking this thread...


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
mdt wrote:
Alternately, they could set up a 'hierarchy' of spell levels.

Actually, in the groups I play in, market prices for potions, wands and scrolls are based on an even simpler hierarchy:

1) All base caster classes with 9 spell levels
2) All base caster classes with 6 spell levels
3) All base caster classes with 4 spell levels
4) Any Prestige Class with whatever progression

So, yes, a potion of resist energy will have a market price of 300 gp, even if a Paladin can easily create one for 25.
We even go as far as determining prices for things that couldn't have been made that way. (Wand of Summon Monster V, cannot be produced by a Wizard (while a Summoner can create it), still will cost you 9 x 5 x 750 = 33750 gp if available at MagiMart)

Does this create leeway for an industious PC to sell self-made stuff above his own costs, effectively making money? Sure, but where's the problem? If player chars have time to make money, this is a good sign that they are getting too much down time.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Portable Ram, the masterwork tool, and adamantine durable arrow.


You know, I can't, for the life of me, think of a post Ashiel makes that I dislike. Even if I don't agree with his viewpoints, they are always well thought out arguments that show a high degree of competence and experience.

Just another amazing thread for Ashiel it seems :P


dot


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Seriously, adamantine durable arrow. Available at first level, and tons of uses.

Osirion

May I suggest that this be put into a google-doc And posted in the guide to the guides? That'd be a good way to keep track of it and make it updatable. :)


I'll put in a second vote for the potion of lesser restoration. While the scroll is cheaper, it's three rounds to cast it, which is three more rounds than I have, most of the time.

And by the way, scrolls of remove blindness just aren't worth it. Because if you need it, you can't read the scroll. Same with the scroll of daylight.


Like Ashiel, my friends and I came up with a list of things that were cheaper than a raise dead. There's a lot you can get for under 5450 gold.

Water trap

You may be called upon to swim, especially if the room suddenly fills with water, or if someone decides to reposition you off of the boat.

If you don't have the skill points to invest, consider the elixir of swimming. 250 gp, and it's enough to keep you from drowning. Potions of water breathing will set you back a bit more, but can also be useful.

If you're a caster, there are also a number of scrolls that can help here, from the obvious, to the subtle (summon a dolphin, and have it tow you around)


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Salve of Second Chance is only 1600gp. Save locks of hair from all players, just in case.


Dotting for awesome.


12 people marked this as a favorite.

Thank you everyone! I really appreciate the support, and everyone else coming together to share their own handy tricks concerning the game.

Before I answer some questions, I would like to ask everyone reading the thread to try to avoid starting up any debates or arguments in veins similar to "whether or not potions are fairly priced" or whatever. While I personally think there's nothing wrong with having these basic protections or heals (potions are generally overpriced for 2nd or 3rd level spells anyway), I didn't start the thread to discuss such things. It's intended to be a handy guide based on the rules for people who want to improve their general understanding and skill level with the game. I've posted some other guides on these boards that were drowned out with endless arguments; and I feel it makes it harder to find the good stuff when argument posts outnumber the subject posts 20 to 1. :P

I do try to double check and validate my advice within the rules (such as how I did double check the potion targeting thing, but missed the odd restriction buried in the item creation page). If you find something that isn't correct or legal in the core game, please do not hesitate to point it out (ideally with quotes). If something here upsets you because it disrupts your idea of the "one true way" of playing, then please, do not tell me, or others, what terrible rules-lawyering power gamers we are because we carry a few 50 gp potions of healing and defensive spells. We'd all save a lot of heartache that way, and I'm tired of constantly being in fights on these boards. This is my attempt to share with the community, and I'd really appreciate keeping gremlins out of the cogs. Thank you. ^-^

Q&A:

Starcoffin wrote:
Where are you getting the stats for an ox?

Domesticated cattle share statistics with the auroch (creatures such as oxen, texas longhorn, or wildebeest work). Larger breeds of cattle, such as buffalo share statistics wit the bison. In 3.5, 3.5 Bison statistics are used for all large herd animals.

Shameless Indulgence: Again, thank you Artemis, Tels, Rakshaka, and Blaphers (and anyone else I missed). Your encouragement is encouraging. ^-^
========================================================================
That was a long enough break from my last post. Time to get back down to business. I've taken the liberty to quote some wonderful additions to the list for folks on the thread (along with their names for acknowledgement).

Odraude wrote:

Rope: Seriously, you can circumvent so many issues at earlier levels with hemp rope, a little imagination, and a lot of strength. Everything from rope bridges, tying up baddies, and keeping wagons together. It is the duct tape of the fantasy realm.

Breaking and Entering: Second, and something that I have taken a loving to only recently, is the crowbar. It is the fighter's way to pick locks and is incredible for cracking things open that your party's lockpicker can't normally open. A tombcover, for instance, or a locked metal door. Plus, if you go against a DR/Bludgeoning creature, the crowbar makes a decent make-shift weapon if you happen to not have a club. My bard once brained a Faceless Stalker to death using a crowbar, Arcane Strike, and a little attitude. A battering ram is also awesome for taking down doors and can have two people use it to drop through a door.

A Good Pick, Ya Dig?: Pickaxes and shovels are great for getting around locked doors in dungeons. With a little time, effort, and some friends, you can simply circumvent a dungeon door. Not good if you are on a time limit though but a okay for dungeon delving. Also, the pick is great for coup de gracing a poor helpless shmuck. As a GM, I do allow the shovel to be either slashing (the sharp side) or bludgeoning (the flat side) but ask your GM if it's okay. I don't see it as an issue.

A Friendly Game of Darts: You want to be an assassin right? Get a blowgun! I've seen a rogue and alchemist use this to amazing effect. It's a simple weapon and you can apply poison on your darts easily. Plus, it is silent which is an excellent plus for more stealthy missions.

Who Says Non-Lethal Isn't Fun?: And if you are going to get nets, may as well get a mancatcher and some bolas. A mancatcher is a reach weapon that touch attacks someone and then grapples them. It is more limited to the size, usually humanoids of medium and small size. But, it's reach so you do not provoke attacks of opportunity, and if given to your strong muscle, it will hit and grapple the person. Not to mention it is a DC 26 to break it. At level one, you'd be hardpressed to find someone that can beat that. Bolas are great for closing in on prey. That's a ranged trip attack that can't provoke, and it's not an attack roll you make but a CMB roll. Meaning, your high strength fighter doesn't have to worry about not having a great dexterity to land this. Using bolas, nets, and mancatchers, I created a formidable hobgoblin slaver squad that captured the PCs in an adventure. It had caught them completely surprised when these things that were doing non-lethal damage had instead overpowered them. Now, imagine that being used on the enemy. It makes capturing for interrogation that much easier.

Abraham Spalding wrote:
*excellent stuff regarding slings and gauntlets*

Abraham beat me to it, but since I was going to discuss overlooked weapons in this post (including slings, gauntlets, and even clubs), I decided to pack this info all together. I still wanted to give Abraham a shout out, because he shared it first. Expect slightly reformatted but similar info concerning both slings and gauntlets further down.

Grappling Hook? Does Improved Grapple help?: The grappling hook is a surprisingly useful piece of equipment. It has no obvious effects noted in its description, but instead explains that it is a AC 5 attack roll to chuck a grappling hook at a suitable spot to anchor it (such as a ledge, jutting rock, whatever). However, its real use is hidden in the Climb rules. When connected to a rope, you can turn impossible to climb areas into trivial endeavors.

The DC to climb a knotted rope with something to brace against (such as a wall, cliff, etc) is DC 0. DC 5 with either no wall or no knots, DC 10 if both. Most people can hit those DCs taking 10 even with pretty bad check penalties. A guy or gal in plate mail can shimmy up such a rope without even having ranks in Climb, while only taking 10. You can even tie the rope to yourself to avoid falling if you are distracted.

Ropes and Chains Excite Me: As other posters have pointed out, ropes are useful for way too many things (but that is the point of rope, right?). Hemp rope is for adventurers on a budget, and its only real drawback is it's very heavy for its length. At low levels, I prefer packing anywhere between 50 to 200 feet of this stuff, and carrying it on a pack animal like an ox (its weight means nothing to ol' Samson the ox). Silk rope is more expensive but weighs a lot less, and is a bit stronger. Excellent stuff for characters who need to carry a bit on hand themselves in the ol' haversack.

Chains are often overlooked. They're even heavier than silk rope and much more expensive (it costs 150 gp for 50 feet of the stuff, and it weighs 10 lbs. for 50 ft. as well), but it's good stuff if you really need the extra durability. Unlike ropes, chains have a hardness of 10, 5 Hp, and DC 26 break test. It makes it harder for enemies or natural environments to severe your life-line. I've had players whose ropes were destroyed by the splash-damage of grenade weapons (the dwarf cleric was climbing out of a burning pit, and the party was pulling him up, but kobolds were across the pit, chucked acid flasks at the party, acid ate through the rope, dwarf tumbled back into the burning pit).

Both ropes and chains are also a good method of setting up makeshift traps. While I don't believe it's covered in the core rules, a pair of hiding characters between two trees with either a rope or chain wrapped and covered by some leaves or the like should almost certainly send a rider or a charging horse to the ground. Not sure how individual GMs would rule it, but it seems to me like an AoE (the length of the rope) trip attempt with a huge bonus to CMB vs running or charging creatures (easily +10 and maybe even +20). Good means to base a low-tech mechanical trap on as well, methinks.

Do you see what I see?: Bullseye lanterns are cool. The PRD doesn't adequately describe them, but they're lanterns will polished steel mirrors for sides, which can placed in an up or down position. Using these mirrors, if one shutter is opened, then you get a concentrated beam of light that extends a in a 60 ft. cone of light, with another 60 ft. of dim light (double effective bright light for low-light vision creatures). Alternatively, all shutters can be opened for it to provide light in a 20 ft. radius like a normal torch or lantern. Have a 4th level continual flame spell cast on a wick or candle and place it inside the lantern (no longer is their line of effect for the continual flame to be dispelled, hurray) to have an infinite duration deeper darkness piercing flashlight of epic proportions!

It's not Baby-Oil (unless you're a sick bastard): Lamp oil is fairly cheap, and can be used for a variety of purposes. The most obvious would of course be setting things on fire. A single flask can fill a 5 ft. square with oil and burns for two rounds. Drop a few of these in spaces you don't want swarms moving through and have your party's wizard use spark, prestidigitation, or ray of fire to ignore it. It burns for 2 rounds. Only the most meta-gaming of GMs would ever suggest that a tiny swarm (such as beetles, spiders, and so forth) would ever cross a burning space to attack the party; and most animals have a natural aversion to fire. It's cheap enough to carry in large quantities (reminds me of those Clay Jugs from Post #1), and could be used to set traps, or maybe even something really bizarre like fueling your lamps.

Side effects include Indigestion, Nausea, Upset Stomach, Diarrhea...: Antitoxins and Anti-plague are surprisingly useful. While antitoxin has a hard time competing against the 50 gp potions of delay poison, it does have the advantage of being an alchemical and thus mundane item; thus it doesn't require a feat to create, and is freely available virtually everywhere 100% of the time. It can be crafted by alchemists (either professional or the actual PC-class) for a mere 16 gp and provides a +5 bonus that stacks with everything else in the game. Unlike potions of delay poison, it cannot be dispelled or shut off in any way (dispelling the potions are only DC 12), which make them useful even at levels where enemies are tossing dispel spells like rice at a wedding. Antiplague is even better, since disease can be so easily contracted, and few things give immunity to disease (it also lets those already afflicted roll twice and take the better result on their saving throws vs disease each day).

Nuts and Berries are for the Birds: This isn't quite hardcore adventuring gear, but I'm kind of a sucker for a bit of roleplay. I generally like my characters to cook, and trail rations suck (sure they're filling but nuts, dried breads, and biscuits would get very old after a while). I always liked the idea of having a nice stewing fire, cooking the days catch and enjoying the quiet peaceful aspect of the great journey that is adventuring; so let's talk about food.

Trail rations are expensive. 5 silver pieces per day for 1 pound of food. That's like paying $50 bucks a day to avoid starving. Incidentally, Pathfinder and the 3.5 SRD also lack the item descriptions for this food source, so we really have no idea how long they last, what's in them (Pathfinder hints at what appears to be small pieces of meat or maybe dried orange slices, cheese, and bread; but only through an art piece in the book).

So my characters typically pack their own meals. A whole loaf of bread is 2 coppers (1/2 lb.), 1/2 lb. hunk of cheese is 1 silver, and a 1/2 lb. chunk of meat of my choice is 3 silver pieces (good god meat is expensive, isn't it?). I can get 1/2 a pound more food for less than the cost of a trail ration. In fact, I could probably eat the whole week off a loaf of bread, chunk of cheese, and meat. Buy an iron pot to round out your collection. You can also buy poor meals (bread, baked turnips, onions, etc) in bulk and fill some jugs with stew.

In your classic 4 person adventuring party that includes 1 cleric and 1 wizard, you're good to go on food now. The cleric can both infinitely cast create water and purify food and drink, while the wizard brings prestidigitation to the mix. The cleric can prevent the food from going bad or spoiling indefinitely. The wizard can make the food taste like anything, and can turn the water to wine without the alcohol (he can change the taste and color).

I realize my micromanagement as a player might be a bit extreme, but I have a subtle enjoyment of whipping the iron pot off my mule or ox, throwing together a stew, garlic bread, a few seasonings, and a fire. If I'm playing a wizard it's doubly great, since I can take 10 on a Craft (Meals) check and enjoy the subtle satisfaction that my food rocks socks. :P

========================================================================
WEAPONS
Finally we'll get to some of the weapons that are often overlooked by newbies and veterans alike. Abraham Spalding is already batting a thousand with his preemptive mention of some of these. :D

Sticks and Stones will break your bones: Clubs and slings are surprisingly effective weapons. Evil tools in the hands of a GM to be sure, but also useful for PCs. Clubs have a few rather unusual qualities that make them surprisingly useful. They are 1 handed weapons which means you may use them sword & board style, or 2 hand them to get improved benefits from strength and power attack. Their average damage is only 1 point behind weapons like the heavy mace, but they cost nothing and are light in terms of weight. They are free, which means you can comfortably have plenty no matter who you are. Finally, they are also ranged weapons, with a base range increment of 10 ft. (max 50 ft.) which is an option many melee weapons don't have (which can be useful in the right situations). Since they are free, virtually all adventurers can comfortably begin with a club even at 1st level. I have had martial characters who literally wielded only clubs, slings, and longspears at 1st level. All the money you save on them means more money to purchase stuff like chainmail.

Slings are incredibly useful for the professional adventurer. At low levels they are outright superior to bows for most martial characters, since they apply strength to their damage, they're free, and you can carry as many of them on you as you desire. Finding ammo for them is a simple endeavor, since loading them with rocks set their base damage to 1d3-1 (down from 1d4), but is offset by a decent strength bonus (an 18 Str makes it 1d3+3, which is a higher average damage than a longbow at 1st level). Their main ammunition is 1/2 pound and oval shaped, roughly the size of the palm of your hand; and they are already capable of tossing improvised ammunition. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that you can probably lob other objects of similar weight and size using slings (of course it'd probably count as an improvised weapon in that case). I'm fond of flasks of acid, alchemist fire, holy water, and similar fare (even at a -4 for improvised, they're touch attacks). The next step would be lobbing oils at targets, allowing you to toss potions around the battlefield like the Chemists from Final Fantasy Tactics.

Slings are also useful as adventuring tools. You can create distractions by using them to toss rocks or thunderstones great distances (the maximum distance for a slingshot without feats or magic is 500 feet), and casting light on a rock can allow you to illuminate a dark hallway by chucking the rock down the hallway (the light effect will illuminate everything in the hallway as it travels, giving you a moment to see if there's anything lurking ahead in the darkness, since the moment the bright light passes them, their Stealth checks are nullified for a moment if they don't also have cover or concealment.

Quarterstaffs are basically 2 handed double clubs. Beautiful weapons. Their real prowess is discussed below under double weapons.

Reach out and Kill Someone: Reach weapons rule the school. Forget swords. Okay, don't forget them. Swords are cool. But man we need to tie swords on the end of a long stick, because reach weapons rule! Reach weapons are traditionally 2 handed weapons, which tend to rock socks in 3.x/Pathfinder. In addition, they increase your threatened area dramatically, and make it difficult to close on you or your allies without provoking attacks. Reach weapons can be used to preform the trip and disarm combat maneuvers against people without reach weapons, since they cannot take their opportunity attack against you. Mancatchers even let you grapple people!

An often overlooked opportunity with reach weapons is using them as improvised weapons. You can use any object as an improvised weapon, but you take a -4 proficiency penalty when using the object in this way. Reach weapons are arguably the #1 reason to take the Catch of Guard feat, since it removes the -4 proficiency penalty. If someone comes inside your reach, declare an improvised weapon attack and beat the s+~@ out of them with the shaft of your spear. A 2 handed improvised weapon deals 1d6 damage and has a 20/x2 threat range. This is the only real use for the Catch of Guard feat I've found in real play, but it's a good one and is quite thematic (reminds me of the movies where you have that one guy with the pole-arm, who's always an absolute badass, and beats the crap out of people with every part of the weapon).

My personal favorites are the Longspear (simple weapon, 1d8/x3 critical), glaive (martial, 1d10/x3, becomes 2d8 when enlarged), and the Ranseur (martial weapon, 2d4/x3, +2 disarm). Guisarmes are trip weapons, but the trip quality kind of sucks. Mancatchers are added to the favorite list from the APG (exotic, 1d2/x2) and can be keyed to different size categories (man catchers are keyed to a size category, so you can carry one for catching small creatures, one for medium, or even one for catching colossal dragons). The 1d2 damage is misleading, since most of your damage will come from your 1.5 Strength modifier and such. Fighters specializing in reach weapons with Mancatchers can be scary.

Running the Gauntlets: Gauntlets and similar weapons are actually astoundingly useful. You cannot be disarmed of a gauntlet, ever. Regular gauntlets deal damage equivalent to unarmed strikes (but also provoke attacks without the right feat) but are weapons so your friendly neighborhood Fighter might decide he wants to pummel folks with his hammers of justice. Spiked gauntlets, bladed gauntlets, or cestus (plated gauntlets) are gauntlets that are always treated as armed and deal 1d4 damage of their appropriate type. Since you cannot be disarmed of a gauntlet, and they don't require a free hand to use, you can use them in grapples, or as a punishment for people getting inside the reach on your reach weapon (armor spikes are good for this too). A quick thrust with the knuckle (or elbow jab with armor spikes) ca give something pause before trying to eat you again.

I have had a Paladin who beat a demon into unconsciousness using nothing but her gauntlets. Gauntlets can also come in cold iron, silver, mithral, or adamantine qualities as well. Adamantine gauntlets make for great knock-knock jokes. "KNOCK KNOCK!" *punches door down* "ANYBODY HOME!?"

Regular gauntlets have yet one more really awesome benefit that is often overlooked, but is appreciated by classes such as clerics, magi, the odd wizard, or eldritch knights. They are considered unarmed attacks, which means that you can channel touch spells through them, and the touch spells do not discharge if your attack fails. A cleric who casts inflict critical wounds or harm can punch at something with her gauntlet to deliver the spell. If the attack misses, the spell is still held. Since you can get your gauntlets in masterwork or +1-5 variety, it can even help you gain accuracy vs some opponents (some foes have surprisingly good touch ACs).

Double the Fun: Double weapons are amazing with the right wielders. Double weapons are 2 handed weapons which you may use to preform the Two-Weapon Fighting special attack. Unlike normal dual wielding, double weapons do not suffer damage penalties when dual-wielding, only attack penalties. As two-handed weapons, you get the best returns from your strength score and Power Attack.

My favorite double weapon is probably the quarterstaff. It is simple, cheap, and efficient, and almost everyone seems to underestimate it. It's a simple weapon and thus requires no expended feat (but only has around an average damage loss of 1 point compared to the exotic weapons). A fighter specializing in his double weapon of choice (such as the staff) and maxing the dual-wielding feat tree is a meat grinder.

As an example, an 11th level Fighter might have a weapon routine that looks like this (assumes Str 18, Dex 19, +2 weapons, dueling gloves, weapon focus, greater focus, weapon specialization, weapon training II, double slice, TWF, ITWF, GTWF): +21 (main)/+21 (off)/+16 (main)/+16 (off)/+11 (main)/+11 (off), dealing 1d6+15 on each hit. Adding power attack would set the to-hit to +18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8 at 1d6+24 main hand, 1d6+19 off.

Here's a demonstrational video of why staffs and pole arms are awesome: Yep, it's like this.

========================================================================
Taking a break for a moment again. ^-^


rkraus2 wrote:

Water trap

You may be called upon to swim, especially if the room suddenly fills with water, or if someone decides to reposition you off of the boat.

If you don't have the skill points to invest, consider the elixir of swimming. 250 gp, and it's enough to keep you from drowning. Potions of water breathing will set you back a bit more, but can also be useful.

If you're a caster, there are also a number of scrolls that can help here, from the obvious, to the subtle (summon a dolphin, and have it tow you around)

The best thing for dealing with emergency underwater situations is air crystals. They're from the Pathfinder Field Guide and they're only 50 gp.

Air Crystals:
These unpleasant-tasting, alchemically grown crystals release breathable air when chewed. A pouch of air crystals provides 1 minute of breathable air. Placing air crystals in your mouth takes a standard action; chewing them each round is a free action. Any attempt to speak while chewing air crystals negates any remaining duration.


Choon wrote:
May I suggest that this be put into a google-doc And posted in the guide to the guides? That'd be a good way to keep track of it and make it updatable. :)

Not a bad idea, Choon. I'll look into it! :D

PS: Thanks for the dots everyone; including those of you who dotted or offered props while I was writing this recent huge post. These posts take a while, so it's easy to get ninjad. :P


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Also, Bag of Everlasting Dung, only 500gp. You have no idea how many uses I have come up with. It's awesome.


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Shifty wrote:

So a potion of Delay Posion would be 300gp made by a 2nd level cleric, yet a 4th level Ranger making it would be only 50gp?

That's kinda cheezy, but rules is rules.

Although I do find the text:

The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the potion: 25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster.

Seems to be a bit misleading then.

The level of the caster is 4, yet my caster level is 1.

Semantics gone wild :p

Our group uses the PFS rules so that potions are priced in a somewhat logical manner. We consider the ranger/paladin potion exploit to be seriously cheesy and obviously not RAI. But other people interpret things in a much more favorable manner to their PCs...


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Adamantine Dragon wrote:
Our group uses the PFS rules so that potions are priced in a somewhat logical manner. We consider the ranger/paladin potion exploit to be seriously cheesy and obviously not RAI. But other people interpret things in a much more favorable manner to their PCs...

*facepalm* Please, I've asked nicely once before. If you want to argue over healing 1d4 ability damage or removing fatigue being cheesy, or any other aspect of potions or the like, please do so somewhere else. Every time you call it seriously cheesy, that is entirely your opinion, and paints anyone who doesn't view it the same way or uses it as written in a very bad light. It has about as much validity as saying monks are cheesy, or that barbarians are cheesy, or that power attack is cheesy, or that grapples are cheesy. It's part of the game as is, and I'm sure that if a group really doesn't like it, then they can change it for themselves. Like I said in the original post; your mileage may vary depending on group differences.

I really, really, really do not want yet another of my threads to get flooded with people starting fights and arguments inside the thread, or speaking ill about people (directly or indirectly) for following the rules, and calling them and the rules cheap or cheesy. If 50 gp potions of resist energy or lesser restoration offend you, then you should turn back now; good sir. I promise on a thousand Core Rulebooks that it will only get much, much worse from here. I have not even begun to discuss uses of spells, magic items, or other more colorful aspects of the game.

I recall that you think stuff like swift-action true-strike should cost half a million gold pieces, or that rings of sustenance are overpowered, and more or less raging on magic items in general and how using them as intended is gamebreaking disruptive cheese. I have no reason to assume that you will not do the same here, given your posts already. I'm asking you nicely, please don't start this here, because it is not the place. Thank you.


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

When in doubt, scroll to the bottom of your page, and read this:

Paizo.com wrote:
The most important rule: Don't be a jerk. We want our messageboards to be a fun and friendly place.


Ashiel, I was not the first to bring up the discrepancy between potion costs in your interpretation and the PFS rules. It's a legitimate issue to point out. You are, imho, seriously overreacting. Especially since I wasn't even the first on this thread to bring it up.

Chill. I'm not derailing this thread. You are.


Ashiel wrote:
Buy potions of delay poison and lesser restoration for 50 gp each. Yes, you heard me, 50 gp. Both are 1st level spells at 1st caster level, thanks to Paladins and Rangers. That sets the price of these items at 50 gp. he magic item creation rules clearly state that the value of magic items are based on the lowest possible caster levels, regardless of who makes 'em; so even if a cleric makes either, they're still only worth 50 gp.

As per CRB pg 477 (which you quoted earlier :P)

Quote:
Note that some spells appear at different levels for different casters. The level of such spells depends on the caster brewing the potion.

So while you can have the potions for 50gp a cleric can't provide them for that value.


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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

No, the potion discussion should really end here. If you want, start a new thread.

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