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3.5 Reprints, with Errata


D&D 3.5/d20/OGL

Shadow Lodge

Now they just need to reprint 2E.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

TOZ wrote:
Now they just need to reprint 2E.

It's not perfect unless we get the XPH.*

*

Spoiler:
Not that I need it, since I've Untapped Potential, but I would like to recover the copy.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I might buy these to support the company, and to see exactly what the errata are. Considering the price 3.5 PHBs have been fetching, a lower price is nice.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

I still have more copies of 3.5 base books than I know what to do with.


LazarX wrote:
I still have more copies of 3.5 base books than I know what to do with.

I have to agree with this.

This I don’t get. A lot of folks already have one or more copies of the 3.0 and/or 3.5 D&D rules from 2000/2003. I know personally I have one copy of 3.0, the standard copy of 3.5, the deluxe copy of 3.5 and the pocket books of the D20 SRD from Mongoose (basically 3.5 without WotC specific art and IPs) along with the 3.5 Rules Compendium not to mention Pathfinder and other D20 variants (Arcana Unearthed, Iron Heroes, Everquest, etc.).

I understood reprinting the AD&D 1E books from the 70s/80s (coming to stores in July in theory) since those are classic and a lot of people don’t have them or want copies for collections or nostalgia reasons. But with Pathfinder the game most of the existing 3.5 rules fans already migrated to, and given how nice the PF material is, why would I want to buy 3.5 again, or even for the first time?

Not as a consumer that it's bad per se that they are releasing these, but as a company I wonder how many they expect to realistically sell. I'm just having trouble figuring out their strategy, especially while still selling some 4E products and beginning the 5E playtest.

L

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Right now they are selling zero, while the used market is booming on 3.5PHBs. If they reprint them, especially with the long promised errata, they will by definition be selling more than they are now.

Whether they sell enough to break even or profit remains to be seen. I wonder if their plan isn't to start selling ALL editions, so that they grab every market.


If they do start selling all editions again, then it would go a long way towards undoing the damage 4E did to the community.


Most of the "damage done to the community" was from them intentionally halting all sales of any 3E products through official channels by ending the sales of pdfs. The claim was to prevent piracy...on books that had already been out for years and pirated plenty. The real reason was to do their best to eliminate sales competition for 4E, which to them was more important than making mediocre income off the 3E products.

So, as I said when it happened, and still believe now: SCREW THEM!!! They didn't want to take our money back then, like hell I want to give them my money now!

Until they plain old come out and apologize, say straight up, "we lied to the community about our motives in an effort to kill previous editions in order to push 4E and we were wrong to do that and treat our customers like idiots," no forgiveness, no going back.

/rant


It seems to me that Cook and Mearls essentially did that when they announced 5E. Mearls, at least, acknowledged that 4E was a mistake.

It's very hard to admit you made a mistake at the corporate level without bringing down the wrath of corporate lawyers. I think that's about as close to an apology that anyone can expect, and a lot more than people usually get.


Jerry Wright 307 wrote:
...Mearls, at least, acknowledged that 4E was a mistake.

link? I keep seeing this repeated, have yet to see confirmation.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Most of the "damage done to the community" was from them intentionally halting all sales of any 3E products through official channels by ending the sales of pdfs. The claim was to prevent piracy...on books that had already been out for years and pirated plenty. The real reason was to do their best to eliminate sales competition for 4E, which to them was more important than making mediocre income off the 3E products.

So, as I said when it happened, and still believe now: SCREW THEM!!! They didn't want to take our money back then, like hell I want to give them my money now!

Until they plain old come out and apologize, say straight up, "we lied to the community about our motives in an effort to kill previous editions in order to push 4E and we were wrong to do that and treat our customers like idiots," no forgiveness, no going back.

/rant

Just for the sake of argument...what % of the staff that made that decision has to go before that "we" no longer makes sense?


There's no need to quote what everyone's read. Sorry you disagree.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Most of the "damage done to the community" was from them intentionally halting all sales of any 3E products through official channels by ending the sales of pdfs. The claim was to prevent piracy...on books that had already been out for years and pirated plenty. The real reason was to do their best to eliminate sales competition for 4E, which to them was more important than making mediocre income off the 3E products.

So, as I said when it happened, and still believe now: SCREW THEM!!! They didn't want to take our money back then, like hell I want to give them my money now!

Until they plain old come out and apologize, say straight up, "we lied to the community about our motives in an effort to kill previous editions in order to push 4E and we were wrong to do that and treat our customers like idiots," no forgiveness, no going back.

/rant

YEAH! I mean they totally killed all 3.x ed products and yet they kept selling all their newer products in pdf form! What the hell, if they truly believed that pirating was a problem they would have halted all pdf sales, not just of the older stuff that was directly competing with their newer material.

*person comes up and whispers in ear*

Oh... ah ... yeah ... ummmmm ...

San Dimas High School Football Rules!


Jerry Wright 307 wrote:
There's no need to quote what everyone's read. Sorry you disagree.

I'd like to see that quote too. I haven't read it.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jerry Wright 307 wrote:
There's no need to quote what everyone's read. Sorry you disagree.

Disagree? He's not disagreeing, he's asking where it was said so he can see it himself.


Read Greg Tito's articles about the 5E announcement.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My Google-Fu is weak tonight.


I'm sorry. I don't have the articles on-hand. Tito works for the Escapist. He wrote three articles about D&D; past, present and future. He quotes a number of people, including Mearls.

Some people (including Tito) interpret what Mearls says about 4E as an admission that it was a mistake, while others don't see it that way.

I have to say that the vast majority of people who objected to Tito's interpretation accused him of misquoting Mearls, and other journalistic misbehavior. Mearls never said anything about it, which tells me it was an accurate quote.

EDIT: You can probably find quotes on these boards in threads about the announcement.


Jerry Wright 307 wrote:

It seems to me that Cook and Mearls essentially did that when they announced 5E. Mearls, at least, acknowledged that 4E was a mistake.

It's very hard to admit you made a mistake at the corporate level without bringing down the wrath of corporate lawyers. I think that's about as close to an apology that anyone can expect, and a lot more than people usually get.

I wasn't talking about 4E being a mistake (though i consider it to be as well). I was talking more about the stategy of shutting down all legitimate sales of their older edition product in order to benefit 4E sales...somehow? I guess so new entrants to the hobby only see 4E stuff and (they hope) don't notice the whole "4th edition" thing and start looking to learn about the other 3? Whatever their logic...they tried to cripple 3E. And the worst part was, claiming it was because of piracy. They lied to their customers. I would have been still upset, sure, if they had just come out and said, "we don't want older editions competing with 4E, so we're going to do everything within our legal power to diminish that competition." But not pissed off. Taking the product away over such a blatant lie was an unnecessary slap in the face, and one I will not easily forget.

There were other related incidents, such as them taking legal action against crystalkeep...a year and a half ago. Not for all the years 3E was actually in print and sold where that site existed just fine and was even referenced by people on wizards' own website (click last link in the post, or just read the relevant paragraph already quoted there).

Just so much pettiness and bile towards their 3E former customers. So much unnecessary pettiness...


Reprint you say?!

I really hope that happens and some books arrive in here so I can buy them. My money might be slowly going down the drain, but I wanna snatch a 3.5e handbook or two, and that darn Blood of Fiends book after seeing it at the local store!!


Man, I'm glad I don't have anything to do with those forums anymore. It seems to be as full of bile as ever. The worst day getting my ass handed to me over here is still better than the nicest smile the WotC forum could offer. What was that quote from A Christmas Story? "When he smiled at you, it made you feel all warm inside. But mostly he just hit you."

It's hard to take the original article seriously, as it seems whoever wrote it was just throwing junk out from each edition, and claiming it was being entertained as a real possibility for adding back in. I have a hard time swallowing that. However, if it were true, it would reveal the supposed "development" process over there to be a shabby, haphazard thing at best.

Again, hard to swallow. Mearls, at least, is a professional.

Andoran

Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Legendarius wrote:
A lot of folks already have one or more copies of the 3.0 and/or 3.5 D&D rules from 2000/2003. [...] But with Pathfinder the game most of the existing 3.5 rules fans already migrated to, and given how nice the PF material is, why would I want to buy 3.5 again, or even for the first time?

I already have my 3.5 PHB as well as a spare I bought off eBay - although the corners are a little scuffed :( Yet, if these include all the errata I would likely buy a copy. I have Pathfinder but Pathfinder is not 3.5 and I actually prefer 3.5 and so wouldn't mind seeing it on sale again.

I admit their sales might not be huge, but I have been tracking a number of ebay 3.5 PHBs and all have sold for £12 to £20 including the postage ($20 to $32).

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I have two hardcover PHBs, and a softcover PHB from the Player's Kit. I would still love to see the books in print for my players to get a copy of.


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

In case word hasn't leaked over to this thread yet, B&N took down the listings. Rumors and speculation at the link. :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
bugleyman wrote:
Jerry Wright 307 wrote:
...Mearls, at least, acknowledged that 4E was a mistake.
link? I keep seeing this repeated, have yet to see confirmation.

I think this is the part of what he said that some take as him admitting 4e was a mistake...

Mike Mearls wrote:
“If you are a disgruntled D&D fan, there’s nothing I can say to you that undoes whatever happened two years ago or a year ago that made you disgruntled – but what I can do, what’s within my power, is that going forward, I can make products, I can design game material, I can listen to what you’re saying, and I can do what I can do with design to make you happy again; to get back to that core of what makes D&D, D&D; to what made people fall in love with it the first time, whether it was the Red Box in ’83, the original three booklets back in ’74 or ’75 or even 3rd Edition in 2004, whenever that happened, to get back to what drew you into D&D in the first place and give that back to you.”

The full interview can be found HERE

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