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First PFS Character TWF Paladin


Advice

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Hello there everyone. Going to my first PFS event tomorrow night and planning on playing a TWF shield bashing Paladin build. I have played this at higher levels and really enjoyed it. He was practically indestructible with good saves, LoH, and a high Dex that contributed to his armor class without limiting his mobility. The problem that I am facing is that while the build works like gangbusters at higher levels it will be rather weak at lower levels since I will have to spread my stats out so much. I also have to wonder if I can afford to dump Int as well as Wis. Here are the two options that I have come up with.

Race: Human - for extra feat and skill point (both builds)

Str 12
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 7
Cha 18

or

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 7
Wis 7
Cha 18

Feats: Improved Shield Bash (planning on using a light spiked shield so that I can still LoH as a swift action), Two Weapon Fighting.

A high Cha is important to me for the boost to saves and extra LoH, not to mention the sick bonus to Smite which will only get better as I level. I will have to boost Dex every four levels to get the minimum requirements for Greater Two Weapon fighting, but of course that is waaay down the road.

My big questions are:

1) I already know that the build is sick at higher levels but is it viable at lower levels? I don't want to get stuck playing a sucky character for years.

2) Is it worth it to go full dump on Int and Cha? The other paladin that I played did this and his major disadvantage was that he was skill poor. He couldn't ride anything, didn't know anything, and while he was a speedster in a chain shirt it was hard for him to jump and move through rough terrain.

Feedback is appreciated. Don't hold back give it to me straight doc!

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I'd put less into CHA; starting a stat at 18 in point buy is often a poor choice in PFS. Try something like this:

STR 16 (14+2)
DEX 16
CON 14
INT 07
WIS 09
CHA 14

Bump WIS to 10 at 4th level, keeping your Will up.

Use your two feats at 1st level for TWF and Improved Shield Bash. After your first scenario's gold, you'll have a breastplate and light shield for 20 AC, and you'll have decent attack and damage.

At around 4th-5th level, you can get a STR belt and CHA headband.

At least, that's how I'd do it. :)

EDIT: Regarding your skills, note that you'll have 2-3 per level as a human even with 7 INT. You start with 2+INT with a minimum of 1 (so, 1 rank), plus 1 for being human (2 total), plus the option of spending your favored class bonus on a skill rank (3 total). So you could choose to train in, say, Ride, Diplomacy and Swim. That'd be manageable.


Thanks for the input. I think I can get away with dumping Int but it only makes sense to dump Wis and augment Cha since every point that I put into Cha works as much as a point in Wis.

With the stats that you suggested above I would have a +3 Will save and with either of my stat options I would have a +4 will save. I might consider toning down the Cha to 16 but I wouldn't want to go lower than that.

Str 16
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 7
Wis 7
Cha 16

Might be more appropriate. This configuration is virtually the same where my will save is concerned.

Andoran

1) You cant LoH with something in your hand. The ability specifically says you must have a free hand to do it.

2) With the stats you have listed, you are either going to be swinging for +0/+0 with the first set of +1/+1 with the second set when you TWF. I assume you are planning on heading towards Weapon Finesse, but that means you'll have to go through 6 scenarios with a really low attack. Might think about how to up that.

3) I really suggest you do not dump your Int score. Im not fond of Wis dump either, but you will need skill points in PFS, as you already have a limited amount and Faction Missions are generally skill based.

4) I suggest you take the Cha score down from 18 to a 16. Those extra points could help out a lot in other places, especially Con.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Phazzle wrote:

Thanks for the input. I think I can get away with dumping Int but it only makes sense to dump Wis and augment Cha since every point that I put into Cha works as much as a point in Wis.

With the stats that you suggested above I would have a +3 Will save and with either of my stat options I would have a +4 will save. I might consider toning down the Cha to 16 but I wouldn't want to go lower than that.

Str 16
Dex 16
Con 13
Int 7
Wis 7
Cha 16

Might be more appropriate. This configuration is virtually the same where my will save is concerned.

Remember also that Will saves don't come up too often at low levels. At 1st level, STR and DEX will be your all-stars, while your saves will become more important later.

As such, it would behoove you to lower your CHA from 16 to 15 (saving you 3 build points) and then using your 4th level stat bump to take it to 16, just about the time it starts mattering more.

Also, you said that "every point in CHA is worth a point in WIS". This isn't quite true in point buy, as lower scores cost exponentially less than higher scores. For instance, moving your CHA from 15 to 16 and moving your WIS from 9 to 10 will both increase your Will save, but the CHA increase costs you 3 points as opposed to the 1 point that the WIS increase would cost you. So for Will saves, you get more bang for your buck if you balance WIS and CHA than if you dump one and pump the other. Granted, CHA gets applied to the rest of your saves too, but the point is still valid - moderate scores at first level are usually a better investment.

Andoran

godsDMit wrote:
1) You cant LoH with something in your hand. The ability specifically says you must have a free hand to do it.

This is true...but a light shield doesn't count as 'in your hand' and allows it.


On 1) It depends on how you read the rule. I actually posted a thread on it the other day. It is up to the GM, but if I am holding a small shield I technically have an open hand that I can hold items in.

RAW:

Light Shield - You strap a shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use weapons with it.

LoH - Despite the name of this ability, a paladin only needs one free hand to use this ability.

I could also take Weapon Finesse: Shortsword at first level and forgo Improved Shield Bash until level 3. That way I could fight with two Shortswords at +2/+2. On the other hand if I have a 16 in strength as well as dex the point is somewhat moot. I hear you on the Con and the Cha, but I question the value of an average Int. I would essentially be paying 4 points for one skill point. As Jiggy pointed out as a human I will have at least 2 skill point per level in any situation. What skills are important for PFS?

Edit: Jacked stats up.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Phazzle wrote:
I could also take Weapon Finesse: Shortsword at first level and forgo Improved Shield Bash until level 3.

Did you mean Weapon Focus? Because you don't pick a weapon with Weapon Finesse - it applies to any "Finessable" weapon at any time.

Quote:
What skills are important for PFS?

My main three suggestions are these:

Be able to fight.
Be able to move.
Be able to investigate.

Accomplish those as you see fit.


Jiggy wrote:
Phazzle wrote:
I could also take Weapon Finesse: Shortsword at first level and forgo Improved Shield Bash until level 3.

Did you mean Weapon Focus? Because you don't pick a weapon with Weapon Finesse - it applies to any "Finessable" weapon at any time.

Quote:
What skills are important for PFS?

My main three suggestions are these:

Be able to fight.
Be able to move.
Be able to investigate.

Accomplish those as you see fit.

Good call on the weapon finesse. I was thinking 3.5. So investing in Diplomacy and acrobatics is probably a good call.

Andoran

For the shield, if it's up to the GM, you should expect table variation. No way around that. Good to know, though.

If you go with the shortswords, you may want to think about taking a heavy steel shield instead of a light and use the shield as the primary and the shortsword as the secondary. That would mess up the LoH thing, though.

Important skills can depend heavily on what faction you are in, but common ones are Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff, Sense Motive, Knowledge skills (especially Local), Linguistics (or at least knowing multiple languages), Perception, etc. Jiggy does make a good point, which he made while I was posting mine, lol, but I suggest you spread the points out if nothing else. Better to be trained in a variety of things with low modifiers each than just a few with high modifiers. YMMV.

Andoran

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Is it just me, or do most Pathfinder paladins end up being Gump-esque from a stat perspective?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Phazzle wrote:
So investing in Diplomacy and acrobatics is probably a good call.

For someone with a high CHA and Diplomacy as a class skill, yes, that's the first skill you should be looking at investing in.

I'd probably prioritize Swim over Acrobatics, though. Failing swim checks tends to be more deadly than failing acrobatics checks, at least when you have to make them (as opposed to optional ones, like tumbling through threatened squares - you can simply choose not to do that).

Fail an acrobatics check to jump over a pit, and you take some fall damage, heal up, and wait for someone on the other side to lower a rope.

Fail a few swim checks and you risk drowning, and drowning doesn't care how much HP you have.

Osirion

Where do you think the Lawful Stupid stereotype came from? :P

Yeah, Int. is a dump stat for most paladins (unless you go past level 5/6, in which case Unsanctioned Knowledge is about the best Paladin feat in the game).

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

StrangePackage wrote:
Is it just me, or do most Pathfinder paladins end up being Gump-esque from a stat perspective?

Gump's CHA wasn't as good. ;)


Ok. I think that I have worked out a solution.

So, at first level I take 2 weapon fighting and Weapon finesse. I fight with a Rapier and a Short Sword and forego Shield bash until Level 3. The main reason for taking it is so that I can still full attack and use LoH in the same round. Since a light shield (spiked) is a light weapon I can still apply weapon finesse to it as I level and pump Dex. I like your advice about Cha Jiggy since only boosting it to 15 gives me a few extra points.

Here is how the stats play out:

Str 14
Dex 17
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 7
Cha 15

This configuration allows me to have a 19 dex when I am ready for Greater Two Weapon fighting. It also has a nice Con and a respectable strength. Int is not gimped and wisdom is a wash due to Cha. I can increase Cha at 4th level and use 8th and 12th level increases for Dex (if I ever get that far).

I also have the option of as many as 4 maxed skills. Diplomacy and Acrobatics (even though it is non-class) seem like good options. Does anyone have any more suggestions on skill points?

Edit: In light of the importance of perception perhaps...

Str 14
Dex 17
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 10
Cha 15

That way I only lose one skill point and I can still boost perception, not to mention the increase to my will save.

At this point it is really a choice of which stat to dump int or wis. One of them has to go.


Phazzle wrote:

Str 16

Dex 16
Con 13
Int 7
Wis 7
Cha 16

Might be more appropriate. This configuration is virtually the same where my will save is concerned.

Of course in this case he'd be a borderline idiot. I've never considered a 'Forrest Gump' Paladin build before... might have to get the group Bard to hold up a big sign saying 'STOP' when combat was over.

If you want a bad@ss Paladin build, let me know ;)

EDIT: Damn, ninja'd again.

Cheliax

The order of skills is in fact:

1) Perception
2) Diplomacy
3) Swim

Perception prevents surprise (some GMs are mean enough to make nearly every encounter have surprise potential), Diplomacy is called for in almost every mod (and often for faction missions you have to make the roll yourself). There are MANY sea based encounters; lack of "swim" as a skill makes many fights more difficult than they need to be.


BTW...I have thought long and hard about Forrest Gump's stats. Forrest Gump would definitely have a high wisdom, a respectable cha, and a low as dirt Int. He was very disciplined, knew what he wanted out of life, and most people seemed to like him.

Gump's stats

INT 7
WIS 15
Cha 12

IMHO

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

INT 7 is hardly "low as dirt". Gump is probably closer to 4 or 5. Remember, NPC stat arrays (even the heroic ones!) all include an 8, which means that one-sixth of the population of Golarion has INT 8. A single point below one-sixth of the population is hardly Gump status.


Phazzle wrote:

BTW...I have thought long and hard about Forrest Gump's stats. Forrest Gump would definitely have a high wisdom, a respectable cha, and a low as dirt Int. He was very disciplined, knew what he wanted out of life, and most people seemed to like him.

Gump's stats

INT 7
WIS 15
Cha 12

IMHO

I could go with that, I guess... his Wisdom was often as a result of seeing things in incredibly simple terms, like a child might, not due to any great insight or philosophical view so it makes it kind of hard to quantify. I might go INT-7, WIS-14, CHA-13... but that doesn't change the mod's so its all good. :-P


Jiggy wrote:
INT 7 is hardly "low as dirt". Gump is probably closer to 4 or 5. Remember, NPC stat arrays (even the heroic ones!) all include an 8, which means that one-sixth of the population of Golarion has INT 8. A single point below one-sixth of the population is hardly Gump status.

I always aligned stats with IQ points. Gump's IQ was 70 which is borderline retarded (the word is being used in the proper context so please do not flame me). I figure 70=7 (cucumber) just as 18=180 (supra genius). Stephen Hawking, would have something in the neighborhood of 24. Which you could achieve at his level, assuming he is at least a 16th level astrophysicist :)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Thalin wrote:
Perception prevents surprise (some GMs are mean enough to make nearly every encounter have surprise potential),

You know what's funny? I've had two characters so far where I've gotten away with not investing in Perception. My fighter is an AC whore, so a surprise round usually just means they have a chance to hit him on a 16 instead of an 18.

The other one is a Fighter/Wizard headed toward Eldritch Knight. With his Forewarned ability (can always act in surprise round, even if unaware of opponents) and his +10 initiative, he can fail his Perception check and then still get to act before the ambushers as often as not. ;)


Mercurial wrote:
Phazzle wrote:

BTW...I have thought long and hard about Forrest Gump's stats. Forrest Gump would definitely have a high wisdom, a respectable cha, and a low as dirt Int. He was very disciplined, knew what he wanted out of life, and most people seemed to like him.

Gump's stats

INT 7
WIS 15
Cha 12

IMHO

I could go with that, I guess... his Wisdom was often as a result of seeing things in incredibly simple terms, like a child might, not due to any great insight or philosophical view so it makes it kind of hard to quantify. I might go INT-7, WIS-14, CHA-13... but that doesn't change the mod's so its all good. :-P

Drill Sergeant: "Gump! Why did you assemble your weapon so quickly!?"

Gump: "Because you told me to Drill Sergeant!"

Many people in the military cannot grasp this simple concept. Gump was indeed a "some kind of genius."


Back on topic...does it make sense to invest in Perception and Swim even if they are not class skills?

Silver Crusade

Build requirements.
1 : Paladin
2 : Two Weapon Fighting for sword and shield.
3 : Cha for LoH, Divine Grace, and other paladin ability's.

Problems I can see in the build.
1 : Improved and Greater Two Weapon Fighting for this type of build are not needed. They can increases your DPR some.
2 : For a paladin this will be very feet intensive. and require you to go.
Human : Two Weapon Fighting
1 : Improved Shield Bash
3 : Double Slice
5 : Power Attack
7 : Shield Slam
9 : Improved Bull Rush
11 : Shield Master
3 : To much focus on Dex, and Cha. in the point buy. The Diminished return is going to hurt. I have made to meny characters that are dex base to find out at higher level play they become almost usless. There are exceptions to this. Paladin is not one of them most of the time.

My suggestions :
1 : Ability points 20 point buy human.
Str 17 (+1 At 4) Dex 15 (+1 At 8) Con 14 Int 10 Wis 7 Cha 14
2 : Feet's are set buy build consept.
3 : Skill's Diplomacy, and Perception. Are the two most important skill's I know of.
4 : Don't use favored class bonus for skill point. You will want it for HP. Reaching 0 HP happens and characters can die. So my best suggestion is get more.
5 : Trait's This really depends on faction. I'm guessing silver crusade. If that is the case Beneficent Touch can be nice.
Beneficent Touch: Once per day, when you cast a spell or use a class ability that heals hit point damage, reroll any 1s that appear on the dice and take the new roll (even if it is another 1).
6 : Going with a light shield. Main hand weapon can be one handed. For flavor I prefer the favord weapon of the god or goddes the character worships.


calagnar wrote:

Build requirements.

1 : Paladin
2 : Two Weapon Fighting for sword and shield.
3 : Cha for LoH, Divine Grace, and other paladin ability's.

Problems I can see in the build.
1 : Improved and Greater Two Weapon Fighting for this type of build are not needed. They can increases your DPR some.
2 : For a paladin this will be very feet intensive. and require you to go.
Human : Two Weapon Fighting
1 : Improved Shield Bash
3 : Double Slice
5 : Power Attack
7 : Shield Slam
9 : Improved Bull Rush
11 : Shield Master
3 : To much focus on Dex, and Cha. in the point buy. The Diminished return is going to hurt. I have made to meny characters that are dex base to find out at higher level play they become almost usless. There are exceptions to this. Paladin is not one of them most of the time.

My suggestions :
1 : Ability points 20 point buy human.
Str 17 (+1 At 4) Dex 15 (+1 At 8) Con 14 Int 10 Wis 7 Cha 14
2 : Feet's are set buy build consept.
3 : Skill's Diplomacy, and Perception. Are the two most important skill's I know of.
4 : Don't use favored class bonus for skill point. You will want it for HP. Reaching 0 HP happens and characters can die. So my best suggestion is get more.
5 : Trait's This really depends on faction. I'm guessing silver crusade. If that is the case Beneficent Touch can be nice.
Beneficent Touch: Once per day, when you cast a spell or use a class ability that heals hit point damage, reroll any 1s that appear on the dice and take the new roll (even if it is another 1).
6 : Going with a light shield. Main hand weapon can be one handed. For flavor I prefer the favord weapon of the god or goddes the character worships.

Good input. I'll think on it. It seems as if you are suggesting that power attack will balance out the loss of improved and greater two weapon fighting. If that is the case then it might make more sense to use a two hander and scrap two weapon fighting altogether. The main reason for TWF was so that I could use it in conjunction with Smite but it loses it's luster if I am only hitting 4 times/round at 12th level.

Silver Crusade

What you run in to past improved two weapon fighting. Is a wast of time. The to hit bonus is so low that the chances of it landing are very low. So even when I make two weapon fighting characters I never go higher then Improved. That and the amount of ability points you have to focus on Dex to get improved cost more in damage, or gold if you get a agile weapon. But it cost to make up for Str.


calagnar wrote:
What you run in to past improved two weapon fighting. Is a wast of time. The to hit bonus is so low that the chances of it landing are very low. So even when I make two weapon fighting characters I never go higher then Improved. That and the amount of ability points you have to focus on Dex to get improved cost more in damage, or gold if you get a agile weapon. But it cost to make up for Str.

There are a number of good ways to build a Paladin - but a two-weapon fighter ain't one of them in my opinion.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Mercurial wrote:
There are a number of good ways to build a Paladin - but a two-weapon fighter ain't one of them in my opinion.

Two things:

First, you only need something like 60-80% optimization to make it in PFS, depending on how clever of a player you are.

Second, a TWF paladin doesn't get weaker overall, just more situational. His usual DPR is slightly lessened by the lower STR, but his smiting DPR goes through the roof.


ITWF IS worth it for the Pally. You are a full bab char and get cha to hit when you smite AND you can cast Divine Favor on yourself.

It'll hit.

Forget Gtr TWF. Only worth it for fighters.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Second, a TWF paladin doesn't get weaker overall, just more situational. His usual DPR is slightly lessened by the lower STR, but his smiting DPR goes through the roof.

You'd be wise to listen to this man.


STR Ranger wrote:
ITWF IS worth it for the Pally. You are a full bab char and get cha to hit when you smite AND you can cast Divine Favor on yourself.

Note that Paladin spellcasting is WIS based, so he's going to have to have a wisdom high enough to cast the spells. A 10 WIS and a +4 WIS headband later would do the trick.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Tinalles wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:
ITWF IS worth it for the Pally. You are a full bab char and get cha to hit when you smite AND you can cast Divine Favor on yourself.
Note that Paladin spellcasting is WIS based, so he's going to have to have a wisdom high enough to cast the spells. A 10 WIS and a +4 WIS headband later would do the trick.

Haven't made the transition to Pathfinder, I see. :)


Phazzle wrote:
Good input. I'll think on it. It seems as if you are suggesting that power attack will balance out the loss of improved and greater two weapon fighting. If that is the case then it might make more sense to use a two hander and scrap two weapon fighting altogether. The main reason for TWF was so that I could use it in...

This.

If you're set on a TWF Paladin and you'll have fun with him no matter how effective he is, then rock out with any build you like. The purpose of the game IS to have fun after all... but if what you want is a bad@ss Paladin that's another thing entirely. I've got a build for you to look at if you're interested.


Jiggy wrote:
Tinalles wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:
ITWF IS worth it for the Pally. You are a full bab char and get cha to hit when you smite AND you can cast Divine Favor on yourself.
Note that Paladin spellcasting is WIS based, so he's going to have to have a wisdom high enough to cast the spells. A 10 WIS and a +4 WIS headband later would do the trick.
Haven't made the transition to Pathfinder, I see. :)

Hey now - he's a 'STR Ranger', not a 'CHA Paladin'...

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Uh, that was Tinalles, not STR Ranger.


Jiggy wrote:
Uh, that was Tinalles, not STR Ranger.

D'oh!


I am still going to build a TWF paladin. As Jiggy said DPR goes through the roof when smiting and that was the whole idea. I see the diminishing returns with GTWF but I think that ITWF is still worth it. With that in mind I can start my Dex at 15 and free up some points.

If I go for...

STR 16
DEX 15(+1 at 4 and 8)
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 7
CHA 15 (+1 at 12)

...I will still get an attack bonus that is plenty high and I won't have to take Weapon Finesse. I will have a respectable amount of hit points. I will not be gimping myself on feats and the low WIS will be balanced by CHA.

Feat Progression:
1 - TWF, Improved Shield Bash
3 - Double Slice
5 - Power Attack
7 - Extra Lay on Hands
9 - ITWF

Skills:

Diplomacy
Perception (though I will still suck at it early on)
One floating skill point to spread around as I level

I don't see the value of Improved Shield Bash and Improved Bull Rush since I will want my opponents to be close enough to hit, but I see where you were going with that build. It's just not what I had in mind. This character is capable of turning the blender switch on with Smite as well as being able to self-heal effectively and have good saves.


Without Improved Shieldbash their is no point to using the shield.

Consider wielding a Scimitar/Cestus at low levels.
It fixes the problem with moving.

See moving more than 5 ft as a twf'r sucks because you can't TWF. Plus if you have say a shield or Dagger in your offhand then the one attack you do get is a 1handed attack and that, damage wise, sucks.

If you do Scimitar/Cestus then you can TWF when standing still and 2hand your scimitar when you move.

Feat wise I'd go:
1-TWF, Power Attack
3- Quickdraw
5- Improved Shieldbash.

Now here's the trick. Get a Quickdraw Light Shield. It can be drawn/sheathed AS A FREE ACTION.

So combat starts:
If foe is Adjacent, Quickdraw your Scimitar/Shield and Go to town TWF.

if opponent moves or started far away, on your turn, Free action put shield away and 2handed charge that sucker! After your charge draw shield and rock a high AC, while your foe attacks you.

This is totally RAW.

Now for the rest to Society play go:
7-ITWF
9-Shieldslam
11- Shieldmaster

the benefits of the extra attack are obvious (between self buffing with Divine Favor and a party Haste from the Wiz, it hits plenty)

Shieldslam is a FREE bash, so bash them away from squishy buddies. If they close with you, well hey, they just gave up thier full attack. If they don't close, well you succeeded in protecting a buddy. Thanks, bro!

Shieldmaster totally eliminates the TWF penalty with the shield attacks and makes it heaps cheaper (since you don't have to enchant shield spikes anymore.)

Ignore Doubleslice for society. It sucks. It ONLY adds 1-2 points of damage to your offhand attacks (which you only get 1-2 of at this level)
when you FULL Attack, which ain't all the time.

I'd get it at 13, for TWR at 15, but society finishes at 12.

Cheliax

Tinalles wrote:
STR Ranger wrote:
ITWF IS worth it for the Pally. You are a full bab char and get cha to hit when you smite AND you can cast Divine Favor on yourself.
Note that Paladin spellcasting is WIS based, so he's going to have to have a wisdom high enough to cast the spells. A 10 WIS and a +4 WIS headband later would do the trick.

Please take a trip over to the "what has changed" thread! :)

Silver Crusade

Phazzle wrote:
I am still going to build a TWF paladin. As Jiggy said DPR goes through the roof when smiting and that was the whole idea. I see the diminishing returns with GTWF but I think that ITWF is still worth it. With that in mind I can start my Dex at 15 and free up some points.

I really like two weapon fighting characters. I really like how they play out. At the same time I know it dose not work well with out some other factors involved with the two weapon fighting. Smite Evil can do a tone of damage with two weapon fighting. The problem I have run in to in the past is when it dose not work, or you just run out. You have just lost 3/4 of your combat ability.

My short list of requirements for character creation.
1 : Make a character I want to play.
2 : Can heal them self in some way. (The exception to this rule is arcane casters.)
3 : Can handle a variety of problems. No making a character that can only handle one thing.
4 : Dose not depend on out side forces to complete his objective. (For example smite evil. It relies on a out side force to be there for it to work.)
5 : Focus on what you want to do. There are many role to fill make sure you can do at least one of them better then any one else at the table.


Good feedback. In fact, the main reason that I wanted to use the shield was that it allowed me to use my hand to LoH. The cestus accomplishes the same thing without having to spend a feat.

Is it kosher in PFS?


Yep. Totally raw.

Note The cestus is not at good as a shield.
It has lower base damage and doesn't protect you.
It does give you a way to be armed and use your hand for other stuff.
Every char should wear a cestus as a backup. Decent crit range and does 2 kinds of damage.

Once you get Quickdraw and a Quickdraw shield, that's a better option.
the shield does bigger damage and ups AC.

the trick IS a bit rules abusive but is totally RAW.
The strictist DM will limit you to one draw a round but that's enough.


STR Ranger wrote:

Yep. Totally raw.

Note The cestus is not at good as a shield.
It has lower base damage and doesn't protect you.
It does give you a way to be armed and use your hand for other stuff.
Every char should wear a cestus as a backup. Decent crit range and does 2 kinds of damage.

Once you get Quickdraw and a Quickdraw shield, that's a better option.
the shield does bigger damage and ups AC.

the trick IS a bit rules abusive but is totally RAW.
The strictist DM will limit you to one draw a round but that's enough.

It appears that the Quickdraw Shield only comes in the light variety. A light spiked shield is virutally identical to the cestus apart from the crit range that is actually better for the cestus.

With that in mind I think I can actually forgo the shield entirely. Sure I am losing the +1 to AC and I can't shield bash but I wasn't all that interested in the higher level shield feats. I just wanted the ability to heal myself as a swift action. I could take quickdraw to leverage the shield but I opted for toughness instead.

Good input though. Thanks. I didn't know about the cestus and it changed the complexion of the character entirely.


Here's the final build.

Name: Domallius Veneloric
Alignment: LG
Class: Paladin/1
Deity: Iomedae
Faction: Silver Crusade
Race: Human (Chelaxian)

STR 16
DEX 15
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 7
CHA 16

HP: 15
Init: +2
AC: 17
F/R/W: 6/5/3
CMB: 4
CMD: 16

Skills:

Craft, Armor +4
Diplomacy +7
Perception -1

Feats:

Two Weapon Fighting
Toughness

Special Abilities:
*Paladin, level 1

Traits:
Beneficent Touch
A Sure Thing

Thanks to everyone for your help. If you have any other suggestions to offer I am still open to changes.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Just one thing:

Paladin wrote:
Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Note the "at 2nd level" part.

EDIT: A second thing - why the Craft(armor)? You know you can't craft items in PFS, right?


Jiggy wrote:

Just one thing:

Paladin wrote:
Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Note the "at 2nd level" part.

EDIT: A second thing - why the Craft(armor)? You know you can't craft items in PFS, right?

There is a section in the PFS guide that stipulates that characters with crafting skills can use their "day job," to make additional money.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Ah, okay. I just mostly see Profession or Perform used for Day Jobs, so when I saw Craft, I thought I'd better check just in case.


Phazzle wrote:


There is a section in the PFS guide that stipulates that characters with crafting skills can use their "day job," to make additional money.

Just as a suggestion, Craft is based in INT, Perform is based on CHA. If you were to take Perform: Oratory, your day job could be to perform rousing sermons for the church, and they'd pay you a lot better.


Jodokai wrote:
Phazzle wrote:


There is a section in the PFS guide that stipulates that characters with crafting skills can use their "day job," to make additional money.
Just as a suggestion, Craft is based in INT, Perform is based on CHA. If you were to take Perform: Oratory, your day job could be to perform rousing sermons for the church, and they'd pay you a lot better.

I considered that. It turns out to be a wash since perform isn't a class skill.

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