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Request: Tie Skills to Game Experience Passively

Pathfinder Online

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For example, low perception characters, imo, should see the "distance haze" our to a distance much shorter compared to a high perception character.

Diplomacy: vary responses based on this. However, I don't mean to necessarily introduce *new* options based on diplomacy skill but actually change the regular responses and have their effect be based on the skill. The low diplomacy character might say "gimme that piece of bread, now" versus "please hand me the bread" for the high diplomacy version and in either case the player should have the same option for "give me the bread" and NPCs should respond accordingly. Hostile ones may get in your face over it whereas nicer NPCs may just shrug it off and make a remark that there's no reason to be rude.

Intimidate: working off diplomacy, verbal threats should be a bit sharper and more fierce than people with low scores in this.

Knowledges: this would probably be the "introduce new elements" to things like conversations but should also reveal new information in things like codex entries or provide insights to various world elements like plans, monsters, etc. This should also impact how you interact with NPCs so you *sound* more intelligent about things you are more knowledgeable of.

Handle animal: as this raises, the natural animals of the world would respond overall better as your mannerisms adjust slightly (which should impact model animations) to make yourself more non-threatening in a passive manner.

Survival: high skill with this would reveal things that were previously either hidden or that the player might see but can't interact with because their character doesn't know to "pay attention" to it like trails, droppings, food sources, etc.

The same goes on for other skills. The point of the this is that I want my perception and interaction with the gameworld to actually change based on my skills. My low spellcraft character may physically flinch at a fireball but my high spellcraft one may respond in-game with something smartassy like "is that all you got?"

Goblin Squad Member

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The things you suggest fall into three categories.

1. Fundamental game functions
The range of sight like other fundamentals should never depend on skills because this opens up a huge incentive to cheat! Mr. RD already said so in a discussion about darkness and darkvision.

2. Fluff
There are two major skill trees in PFO as far as we can say: fighting and craft/gathering. The second is the one to make the first better.

So any skill outside these two groups is something of a problem unless it can be trained at the same time. In other words: not that many people will "waste" their precious skill training on getting friendly faces from NPCs when the focus is on fighting.

3. PvE
As there is likely no passive skill to change your experience with other players (as that should always requires action), it could be so in PvE. However the focus of PFO is strongly on PvP so I doubt the game will have a lot of intricate PvE only skills that do not revolve around crafting/gathering.

Goblin Squad Member

MicMan wrote:

2. Fluff

There are two major skill trees in PFO as far as we can say: fighting and craft/gathering. The second is the one to make the first better.

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to say with that, but I would remind you that Ryan has already hinted at skills centered on being a Teamster.

I don't expect to see a lot of it in PFO, but that's because PFO will be on a budget, not because it's a sandbox. Personally, I think there's a lot of room for skills like Diplomacy, Knowledge, etc. in a sandbox. I also think there's room for a lot of NPC-centric action in a sandbox.

A Sandbox is not an Arena. A Sandbox just needs persistence, and the ability of the players to change the world. If there are also NPCs that change the world, that's even better.

Goblin Squad Member

Being a teamster falls under "gathering".

Goblin Squad Member

MicMan wrote:
Being a teamster falls under "gathering".

So would a host of Diplomacy and Knowledge skills, I would imagine.

That was my point.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:

A Sandbox is not an Arena. A Sandbox just needs persistence, and the ability of the players to change the world. If there are also NPCs that change the world, that's even better.

I still disagree on the level of depth NPCs can have and remain globally persistent. To explain I'll first have to differentiate personal and global persistance.

Personal persistance Is the guy who needs 10 rat tails to make soup, and then never asks you for rat tails again. But will ask the next 2 million characters who come by him for the same rat tails. It gets less believable if he asks for anything other then a collection, as when he asks to clear area X of 50 zombies, you go to area X, kill 50 zombies, and when you come back there are just as many zombies there as when you started.

Now global persistence, means the NPCs would randomly generate quests every x amount of time, if the enemies are randomly spawned etc... the NPCs may pull from the data base of what enemies happen to be in a reasonable distance from them, or some high value quests may pull from what just exists anywhere in the world, and tracking/finding is going to be a huge part of the challenge.

Myself I find personal persistence as still very non-persistent, especially due to the complete unbelievable of quests to kill things. Personally I would rather the environments to be dynamic, enemies to migrate, move etc... The core of the game to focus on things that actually change on a global level. I would like it if clearing an area of a threat... actually removed that threat from that area, rather than simply changed the ! over the NPC's head to a ?.

Now really I do agree NPCs can change the world, in addition to quests/NPCs actually giving a subtle method for GMs to subtly direct the general action of the players and nudge people into exploring certain areas etc... Even random events, and things have already been implied where unchecked monster lairs may be able to lay siege to towns etc..

Goblin Squad Member

@Onishi, that's not what I mean at all.

First, if there's a quest-giver asking for 10 Rat Tails to make soup, I would think at most that would only be offered 3 times a day, and it wouldn't matter who did it.

But NPCs aren't just quest-givers. NPCs can fill a variety of functions, not least of which would be participating in the economy, perhaps even in aggregate more than the players do. NPCs could not only buy and sell goods, they could harvest, process and craft as well.

Again, I don't really expect GW to implement this kind of functionality. They're on a budget, and this would be a very complex system to develop without resorting to basic scripted encounters.

I was just making the point that "Sandbox" does not automatically mean "No NPC activity at all".

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