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Bonded Ring Upgrade?


Advice

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Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I have a PFS character who's currently a Fighter1/Wizard2, headed toward Eldritch Knight. He has a ring as his bonded item.

Although crafting is generally disallowed in PFS, wizards are allowed to upgrade their bonded items as normal. But what ring should I go for?

I could spend 1,100 for a ring of feather falling, but I'm not sure how useful that would actually be. Besides, I have feather fall in my spellbook, so if I really need to I can recall it once via my ring anyway.

There's the old standby of the ring of protection, but I have to be CL5 first, which means I wait until 6th level to get my ring of protection just to save 1,000gp that won't even matter by then.

Lots of other cool rings exist, but wouldn't be options within the life of a character who will never exceed CL10.

Suggestions?


Counterspells, especially if you're playing a buff-based character (which Eldritch Knights usually are). Have someone who can cast Dispel Magic load it into the ring for you.

Edit: I don't play PFS, so I dunno if that's practical at your level or not. It'd be a DC 21 spellcraft check to craft the ring without knowing "imbue with spell ability". If caster level is seen as a hard requirement for item creation in PFS, then this ring may be out of the question as an 11th CL ring.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Sylvanite wrote:
Counterspells, especially if you're playing a buff-based character (which Eldritch Knights usually are). Have someone who can cast Dispel Magic load it into the ring for you.

Actually, the character isn't buff-based. Does that change your advice?

EDIT: Ah, you ninja'd me with your edit! PFS caps at 12th level. Between having a level of fighter and the EK's first level not advancing my casting, my CL will never go above 10th (which I noted in my OP). So that would be in the "cool, but unavailable" category I listed. ;)

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Bump?


Not sure if that's different in PFS, but usually you must meet the requirements to take the craft feat for your bonded item before you can enchant it. That means you must have a caster level 7. So you can't enchant your ring before level 9 anyway. Or level 7 if you have magical knack but I seem to remember that the trait is not allows in PFS.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Question: If you craft your arcane bond as a ring of feather falling, then later want to recraft it as a ring of protection, can you pay the difference? If not, can you do it at all, or is your ring stuck with feather fall forever?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Blave wrote:
Not sure if that's different in PFS, but usually you must meet the requirements to take the craft feat for your bonded item before you can enchant it. That means you must have a caster level 7. So you can't enchant your ring before level 9 anyway. Or level 7 if you have magical knack but I seem to remember that the trait is not allows in PFS.

Crap, I missed that! I thought I just needed to meet the CL requirement of the item (such as 5th for a Ring of Protection +1). Blech.

Well, I'm NOT waiting until level 9 for a Ring of Protection +1, that's for sure!

So what would be a good ring to grab for half price at 9th level?


Ring of Telikinesis. Every time.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Ring of Telikinesis. Every time.

Even when I can't get it until I'm about to retire?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If I recall correctly the caster level is not in the requirements for crafting an item so you dont need the caster level listed for an item. Although you will need to qualify for forge ring.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Jaryn Wildmane wrote:
If I recall correctly the caster level is not in the requirements for crafting an item so you dont need the caster level listed for an item. Although you will need to qualify for forge ring.

Hm, you might be right. I've never dealt with item creation before now, so I'm a little new to that part of the system. :P I guess I should get that all figured out and then come back here.

Sovereign Court

Let's see... average wealth at level 9 is 46000...

Freedom of Movement is pricey but very good to have in a pinch. The Ring of Wizardry is very nice and can give you 5 extra spells per day.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Okay then, so basically, I can get a ring at half price once this character hits level 9 (CL 7th).

But any ring is an option, if the cost is reasonable.

So... Ring of Telekinesis has been suggested, for 37,500gp (yikes). I'd have to scrimp and save for that. I don't think it's realistic.

Other suggestions?


If we're talking level 9, I resubmit my suggestion for Counterspells as a viable (and really cheap, actually) ring that is worth having. This depends on your interpretation of the rules on crafting, though. Caster level is not listed as a pre-requisite, however, it is explicitly stated that you cannot create an item below its listed/minimum caster level. This begs the question, of "Can a caster create something at a higher caster level than he has?" The answer, logically, is no, but CL is not listed as a pre-requisite, and you can ignore the required spells for a +5 bump in the spellcraft DC to craft.....so I dunno.

I wouldn't suggest a Ring of Wizardry, as I'd rather just buy pearls of power for the most part. Also, I don't think you really get more than 4 spells from a ring of wizardry, not 5. It doesn't double your bonus spell for being a specialist, as far as I can remember.

The two best that you meet the CL for, and aren't TOO expensive, are Freedom of Movement (20k to craft) and Evasion (12.5k to craft). I'm not sure how much evasion helps with your build, but if you have a decent Reflex save it can be really nice.


My wizard/eldrich knight has a ring of arming. It's 3.5 material in the Magic item compendium. It allows as a standard action to switch armor and weapon with one stored in ring. It was a party item and is useful if you want to cast with arcane spelure chance while wearing armor. I think it costs around 5k.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

This is for Organized Play, so no 3.5 material allowed.


I personally went with a ring of freedom of movement for 20k. I think it has a huge impact on the game and keeps a wizard safe better than any other. Its definitely worth the money.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Kalavas wrote:
I personally went with a ring of freedom of movement for 20k. I think it has a huge impact on the game and keeps a wizard safe better than any other. Its definitely worth the money.

Note that this is for an Eldritch Knight, so "keeping a wizard safe" is less of an issue. Last three sessions, I was the tank.


Jiggy wrote:
Kalavas wrote:
I personally went with a ring of freedom of movement for 20k. I think it has a huge impact on the game and keeps a wizard safe better than any other. Its definitely worth the money.
Note that this is for an Eldritch Knight, so "keeping a wizard safe" is less of an issue. Last three sessions, I was the tank.

I here you. I don't know how high your campaign will play, but once you start facing monsters with auto grab and swallow whole, even the tank needs one of these. My whole group has got one at lvl 12; my wizard took the Craft Wondrous Items feat, and it's paid off on multiple encounters.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The caster level in the top right-ish of an item is NOT a requirement at all.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Why not make it into an amulet?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Cheapy wrote:
Why not make it into an amulet?

Because I already called it a ring and one of the locals might be reading this thread.

>.>
<.<
>.>

@Kalavas: This is PFS Organized Play, which caps at 12th level. Or really more like 11th, and then I can play sort of a "final" adventure arc that takes me to 12th and retires my character.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm pretty certain you can change your arcane bonded item just like you can change familiars.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Cheapy wrote:
I'm pretty certain you can change your arcane bonded item just like you can change familiars.

With a ritual costing 200gp per wizard level, yes. Plus the cost of the item, though I don't know how much that would be for a masterwork nonmagical amulet. :P


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Spend 400 gp to be able to enchant your arcane bond when you take your next wizard level and get more use out of it?

Probably worth it.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Point.

Amulet of Spell Cunning is looking nice.


There is an FAQ/Errata that the CL is no requirement at all!
Note Pearl of Power is CL 17 which has makes it hard to craft (high craft check DC), but does not restrict a lvl5 wizard from doing it.

Liberty's Edge

I went with ring of blinking for my wizard, course dont like combat. yea have to wait till 7th wizard to do ring, but can do amulets at 3rd.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I like either evasion or freedom of movement for the ring.


Sustanence. So worth it for a wizard. And a steal at just 1,250 gp.

OR

Mind Shielding. CL 3, requires nondetction, and is well worth every copper penny of that 4,000 gp cost.

Master Arminas


I wasn't aware that you could improve a bonded item in PFS. Could you possibly point me to where this is mentioned?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Some Random Dood wrote:
I wasn't aware that you could improve a bonded item in PFS. Could you possibly point me to where this is mentioned?

Official FAQ:

"If a caster selects a non-magical item as his arcane bond, and the player later wishes to upgrade it, he may do so for the cost value of the final item as listed in the item's statblock. A bonded item that is enchanted must still conform to all the campaign rules for access to and upgrading of magical items. See the magic item upgrading FAQ for how to upgrade the Arcane Bonded item once it is magical."

It's one of the very few instances of legal crafting in PFS.

So I'm liking the idea of the Amulet, since I can do it sooner. Amulet of Spell Cunning seems worthwhile. Any feedback on that?

Liberty's Edge

Some Random Dood wrote:
I wasn't aware that you could improve a bonded item in PFS. Could you possibly point me to where this is mentioned?

http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/faq


Jiggy wrote:
Some Random Dood wrote:
I wasn't aware that you could improve a bonded item in PFS. Could you possibly point me to where this is mentioned?

Official FAQ:

"If a caster selects a non-magical item as his arcane bond, and the player later wishes to upgrade it, he may do so for the cost value of the final item as listed in the item's statblock. A bonded item that is enchanted must still conform to all the campaign rules for access to and upgrading of magical items. See the magic item upgrading FAQ for how to upgrade the Arcane Bonded item once it is magical."

It's one of the very few instances of legal crafting in PFS.

So I'm liking the idea of the Amulet, since I can do it sooner. Amulet of Spell Cunning seems worthwhile. Any feedback on that?

Thanks, so you would upgrade it if you were normally crafting a magic item? And the cost is that of a crafted item? That amulet is not bad, an extra 1-3 spells a day would be nice.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Amulet of Magecraft.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

By the way, how does PFS know you didn't flub your Spellcraft roll?


blahpers wrote:
By the way, how does PFS know you didn't flub your Spellcraft roll?

Do it in front of your gm? Same way you would learn new spells.


Ehm, I don't play in PFOS but i'd like to point something

Quote:
"If a caster selects a non-magical item as his arcane bond, and the player later wishes to upgrade it, he may do so for the cost value of the final item as listed in the item's statblock. A bonded item that is enchanted must still conform to all the campaign rules for access to and upgrading of magical items. See the magic item upgrading FAQ for how to upgrade the Arcane Bonded item once it is magical."

To me that's mean at the full market price, not at the crafting price. Basically, you are allowed to upgrade it instead of sobstituite it, but still you pay as if you hadn't the feat.


I agree. Says you can pay to upgrade it. Not craft the upgrade. It.says the cost value listed in the stat block. That's the full price.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The cost value of an item is usually half the price value.

Yes, cost and price mean different things.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Some Random Dood wrote:
blahpers wrote:
By the way, how does PFS know you didn't flub your Spellcraft roll?
Do it in front of your gm? Same way you would learn new spells.

Ever heard of the Take 10 mechanic? Right in the front of the Skills chapter of the Core Rulebook? If my bonus is high enough to get it on a take 10, then I just do it between scenarios (when by definition there's nothing interesting happening, so it's impossible to be threatened or distracted). Easy-peasy.

And as Cheapy said, "cost value" is different from "price value" or "market value".


Ah I had it in my head or was cost and craft value not cost and price value.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Yeah, I know about take 10. I was just curious about other situations, not you specifically. Information to file away should I ever play PFS. Thanks!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
Some Random Dood wrote:
I wasn't aware that you could improve a bonded item in PFS. Could you possibly point me to where this is mentioned?

Official FAQ:

"If a caster selects a non-magical item as his arcane bond, and the player later wishes to upgrade it, he may do so for the cost value of the final item as listed in the item's statblock. A bonded item that is enchanted must still conform to all the campaign rules for access to and upgrading of magical items. See the magic item upgrading FAQ for how to upgrade the Arcane Bonded item once it is magical."

It's one of the very few instances of legal crafting in PFS.

So I'm liking the idea of the Amulet, since I can do it sooner. Amulet of Spell Cunning seems worthwhile. Any feedback on that?

You do have one ceiling on this.... Your purchase limit based on your prestige.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

LazarX wrote:
You do have one ceiling on this.... Your purchase limit based on your prestige.

Yep. But I could still get it sooner than with a ring. :P

EDIT: For the Amulet of Spell Cunning, we're looking at 27 Fame required (unless the list I saved in Gmail is outdated).

That's a minimum of 14 scenarios (if I get perfect prestige), which comes out to almost level 6.

So I can reasonably expect to get that item at around level 6-7.

That's a good 2-3 levels sooner than I could get any ring at all, so I still like this idea.


People are correct in the fact that the CL of the item is not important for making it.

However, the wizards arcane bond creation mechanism acts as a stand in for the appropriate feat and you must be the appropriate level to use it on that item. So for the ring, that would be forge ring which you could not get until lvl 7. For an amulet it would only be lvl 3. So keep that in mind too when picking whether to stay with the ring or change to the amulet.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Lab_Rat wrote:

People are correct in the fact that the CL of the item is not important for making it.

However, the wizards arcane bond creation mechanism acts as a stand in for the appropriate feat and you must be the appropriate level to use it on that item. So for the ring, that would be forge ring which you could not get until lvl 7. For an amulet it would only be lvl 3. So keep that in mind too when picking whether to stay with the ring or change to the amulet.

Yeah, at this point the decision to switch to an amulet has been made. And since no one's suggested a better one, I'm planning on Spell Cunning.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Still like amulet of magecraft better. ; ) But it requires a universalist, and I didn't catch whether you were specialized. And it costs twice as much.

Yeah, you're probably better off with spell cunning either way.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

blahpers wrote:
Still like amulet of magecraft better. ; ) But it requires a universalist, and I didn't catch whether you were specialized. And it costs twice as much.

Specialty school is Divination (Foresight). It's super-fun to whip out the ol' wand of shield before the ambushers even get their first volley out. ;)

A troupe of Pathfinders is walking calmly down the street. Suddenly, one of them pops a wand out of a sheath and surrounds himself with a field of deflective force. His companions have just enough time to sigh and say "Not again..." before the hail of arrows comes down from the rooftops.

Quote:
Yeah, you're probably better off with spell cunning either way.

Looking that way.


blahpers wrote:
Yeah, I know about take 10. I was just curious about other situations, not you specifically. Information to file away should I ever play PFS. Thanks!

Personally my DM does not allow me to take 10 crafting it's not really a problem because my spellcraft is high enough to succeed on a one.

Also when ambushed, you might want to do protection from arrows instead.

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