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RPG Superstar 2015

Why would I buy a ring of regen?


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew


Hey guys I have been reading about item creation and it seems to me that according to the rules you can create new magic items. so my question is why would I buy a ring of regen when I could just create a ring of infernal healing.
If I have read the rules right I could decrease the caster level, thus 1 CL x 1 spell level x 2000= roughly 2000gp for a ring that gives fast healing one.
Am I correct or am I missing something?

Scarab Sages Dedicated Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

Possibly that the gm migh very well considering the crafting/wearing an item created throug a spell with the [evil] descriptor to be questionable unless you are playing an evil character? Also, infernal healing does not heal all damage (silver, [good]), while regeneration does.


Not everything fits in a formula.
But with the suggested ring you would not fast heal if hit with spells/weapons with the Good description.
Also you would likely radiate evil :)


If your PC is willing to do such an evil act he can do it.
But wearing that ring could be very bad for your health if you happen to meet a paladin.

Because people radiating evil tend to make paladins itchi.


You are missing something.

Quote:
Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.

What this means, is if something gives the same effect as a ring of regen, then you price it as a ring of regen. You dont go off that table unless there are no similar items out there, period.


See, Infernal Healing gives Fast Healing 1, while Regeneration gives you regeneration.

Fast Healing does not allow you to regrow body parts and regeneration, unless it's turned off, turns all damage into non-lethal damage.


Ah, the joys of discovery the abuses of the "Estimating Magic Item Value" table. Other popular options include continual mage armor, shield, and true strike items. Also, make sure to restrict everything to your class (-30% value) and skill set (-10%).

In seriousness, you can't (and the books tells you not) to take the table at face value. You need to compare with other items to get a reasonable estimation. Otherwise, things can get very weird, very fast.


Well we allow certain spells from 3.5 and lesser vigor would give the same effects without the evil aura, which would be good since I am in a party with a paladin.
It does just seem like such a cheap way to get fast healing at a low level. I guess the real thing would be to talk to my GM.

EDIT: I did forget that regen turns damage into subdual damage. So if im thinking about this right, if you have a ring of regen you cant be killed by damage, only to saves. Where as with fast healing you can


You are missing that you as a player don't get to design new items (by the rules) just like you don't get to design a new monster and claim it's your pet. The custom items are DM fiat, and though the DM might okay you to create a custom item you want, it's not something you can assume to do "by default".

On the price estimation, notice they are _guidelines_. The most important of which is "compare to an existing item". You can't make a Sword of True Strike either ;)

EDIT: I also believe (note believe) that the reduction in price due to class/skill restriction is intended to affect only market price, not creation cost. This could very well be wrong, but I've got a faint memory of a dev clarifying that some years ago.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

Huh. What happens if you cut off the hand wearing the ring of regeneration? Does the severed hand regenerate the rest of you? Seems kind of strange that it'd regenerate the severed hand considering you aren't actually wearing the ring any more.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
blahpers wrote:
Huh. What happens if you cut off the hand wearing the ring of regeneration? Does the severed hand regenerate the rest of you? Seems kind of strange that it'd regenerate the severed hand considering you aren't actually wearing the ring any more.

That gives me a Brilliant Idea (TM)!


blahpers wrote:
Huh. What happens if you cut off the hand wearing the ring of regeneration? Does the severed hand regenerate the rest of you? Seems kind of strange that it'd regenerate the severed hand considering you aren't actually wearing the ring any more.

If it's not attached, the hand the ring is one become an object, nothing more than a fleshy ring stand. Put the ring on the other hand though, and you can reattach the severed one.

Scarab Sages

blahpers wrote:
Huh. What happens if you cut off the hand wearing the ring of regeneration? Does the severed hand regenerate the rest of you? Seems kind of strange that it'd regenerate the severed hand considering you aren't actually wearing the ring any more.

You don't buy a Ring of Regeneration. You buy a Cracked Ion Stone and have it implanted.

Rate of regeneration is not important, only that you have the ability to regenerate.


Permanent items of Infernal Healing?!?! Aww come on! You're not cheesing hard enough! Look at the other first level spells you could abuse, too!


Azten wrote:

See, Infernal Healing gives Fast Healing 1, while Regeneration gives you regeneration.

Fast Healing does not allow you to regrow body parts and regeneration, unless it's turned off, turns all damage into non-lethal damage.

Not exactly. The ring of regeneration does exactly what it says, and does not function in an identical matter to critter regeneration. From the Core Rulebook:

Quote:
This white gold ring is generally set with a large green sapphire. When worn, the ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per round and an equal amount of nonlethal damage. In addition, he is immune to bleed damage while wearing a ring of regeneration. If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it as the spell. In either case, only damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated.

Note that the ring does not actually grant regeneration. It provides healing at a rate of 1 hit point each and every round while worn (if you took the damage while wearing the ring). It also heals 1 point of nonlethal damage each round, in addition to the lethal damage. It makes you immune to bleed damage. And finally, you can use it to restore a lost limb or organ as if using the spell regenerate: 1 round if the severed limb is present and held against the wound, 2d10 rounds otherwise.

The ring wearer is not vulnerable to fire or acid damage, and he gains none of the other benefits listed under regeneration in the Bestiary or the Core Rulebook.

In effect, this ring simply gives you Fast Healing 1. With the added benefits of ignoring bleed damage and that if you lose a limb or organ you can regrow it in 2d10 rounds.

Master Arminas


Cpt Jason wrote:

Hey guys I have been reading about item creation and it seems to me that according to the rules you can create new magic items. so my question is why would I buy a ring of regen when I could just create a ring of infernal healing.

If I have read the rules right I could decrease the caster level, thus 1 CL x 1 spell level x 2000= roughly 2000gp for a ring that gives fast healing one.
Am I correct or am I missing something?

Your GM may not allow it? Creating a new item that doesn't exist requires GM consent and proper judgement.

PRD - Magic Items - Magic Item Creation wrote:
Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. The formulas only provide a starting point. The pricing of scrolls assumes that, whenever possible, a wizard or cleric created it. Potions and wands follow the formulas exactly. Staves follow the formulas closely, and other items require at least some judgment calls.

And...

PRD - Magic Items - Magic Item Creation - Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values wrote:
2 If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2...

So it would at least be 4000...


ahhh, I did not know about the x4. That would make more sense for a price, 8000gp at the lowest

also if how your presenting that information is correct Arminas, which it seems to make sense, then the ring of regen is overpriced

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32 , Star Voter 2014

Cpt Jason wrote:
also if how your presenting that information is correct Arminas, which it seems to make sense, then the ring of regen is overpriced

Pricing magic items is more an art than a science. A table does not (and in fact, cannot) have all the answers.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

The ring of regen has more than just the healing property. It is most definitely not overpriced.


Ross Byers wrote:
Pricing magic items is more an art than a science. A table does not (and in fact, cannot) have all the answers.

Indeed. Ross has a great point.

The other thing to note is that the language I wrote in the post above states that not all items can fall within the table, you do have to use judgement at some point on items that have not been carefully created by the designers.


Cpt Jason wrote:

ahhh, I did not know about the x4. That would make more sense for a price, 8000gp at the lowest

also if how your presenting that information is correct Arminas, which it seems to make sense, then the ring of regen is overpriced

No, the ring of regeneration is actually well priced. It can heal up to 14,400 points of lethal damage in a single day, plus another 14,400 points of nonlethal damage. That isn't even considering how valuable being able to ignore all bleed damage is. And trust me--when your character loses an arm, a leg, an eye, your tongue, breaks a tooth, gets an ear cut off, or loses something . . . more priceless than the Crown Jewels, you will weep if you cannot just regrow it in 2d10 rounds.

The ring of regeneration in the Core Rulebook is priced very well for what it does. Any lower, and it would be a must have item that every adventurer would own.

Master Arminas


master arminas wrote:
And trust me--when your character loses an arm, a leg, an eye, your tongue, breaks a tooth, gets an ear cut off, or loses something . . . more priceless than the Crown Jewels, you will weep if you cannot just regrow it in 2d10 rounds.

That awkward moment when your GM rolls the groin on his Crit location chart!

"...If that had been permenant, i would have been VERY upset!"


Not trying to disagree, but how often do characters lose limbs and such really? I haven't seen rules for it, to me its almost more of an RP thing since you GM has to come up with it, atleast in my experience. If there are rules, other than vorpal weapons I would be very interested if anyone has something.


1st edition AD&D had swords of sharpness which severed an arm or leg on a Natural 20. Many DMs do have their own critical hit tables (I have used the ones from Rolemaster to great trepidition and effect, heheh) that provide for amputation results. Many traps (especially in 1st and 2nd edition) held the possibility of severing a limb. In my experience, many DMs will use descriptive text on critical hits (in appropriate circumstances) that can result in a severed limb . . . or other parts.

That being said, the game has gotten away from that mechanically. Although it kept spells like regenerate other than the vorpal weapon property and the tarrasque, I do not know of many critters or traps that actually sever limbs any more. Which is a shame. Having permanent effects that plague a character adds a lot more depth and solidity to the character.

My namesake had his eye removed for example back in '86 while playing 1st edition AD&D in Greyhawk City, for threatening a magistrate. But the rules today do not, as written, support such. Which is sad.

Master Arminas


Cpt Jason wrote:
Not trying to disagree, but how often do characters lose limbs and such really? I haven't seen rules for it, to me its almost more of an RP thing since you GM has to come up with it, atleast in my experience. If there are rules, other than vorpal weapons I would be very interested if anyone has something.

It happened pretty often in 1e, but I don't think I've ever seen it since switching over to 3.X.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Also kind of often in 2nd edition. Through spells like "Withering" and whatnot. And Swords of Sharpness (Vorpal sword was the upgrade - when did sharpness disappear anyway? 3rd edition?)


Yep, Derwalt. Sharpness went away in the change to 3rd.

Master Arminas


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Thanks Arminas :) Only ever played 3rd edition (and 3.5) once. Pretty much went straight into Pathfinder :)


Arminas, what's rolemaster if you don't mind me asking. I would love to bring this back to my group because I agree that it is a shame. I look at something like an amputation as a great chance for character development.


http://www.ironcrown.com/?page_id=166]Rolemaster Classic

Iron Crown Enterprises very detailed and extremely intense RPG from the 80s. A slightly less crazy version was published as MERP (Middle Earth Role Playing), which had license from Tolkien to use his works as the basis for their campaign system.

Rolemaster is huge, detailed, and complicated in the extreme: but, their critical hit tables are out of this world fantastic.

You've got different tables crushing damage, for slashing damage, for piercing damage, for fire, lightning, acid, pure magical force, radiation, heat, cold, pressure, vacuum, etc., etc., etc.

If you can find a copy of Arms Law (for weapons) or Spell Law (for spell effects), leaf through it and just look at their critical hit tables. My advice: see if you can locate an old copy of MERP and use their critical hit tables. It isn't (quite) as detailed, but it is extremely fun. Oh, and their tables have critical fumbles as well.

Very first game of MERP I ever played, my buddies and I were in high school. My best friend (to this day) was playing this haughty Noldor Elf Ranger. First fight out of the gate, we tangle with Orcs and Goblins and are slicing and dicing them--then one Orc rolls a 92 or something that hits and he cross references the chart against my friends armor . . . next thing we know, the Elf has an arrow sticking out of his eye socket.

Quick action by our priest saved his life, but not his eye. Dropped his appearance by a good bit, even with a patch and he HATED Orcs even more after that.

You probably won't want to play it, but man, oh man, can you mine for some wonderful little gems for critical hits and fumbles.

Master Arminas

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