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Monster ability granting a save vs. abilites that allow no save


Suggestions/House Rules/Homebrew

Taldor

How would you adjucate an ability that allows a high level monster a saving throw even if the spell or ability does not allow one? Would the save negate the effect, allow partial effects like 1/2 damage, etc.

--Vrocking Grasp


Carefully.

(Sorry I'm no help, I'm going to bed =])


It depends a lot on the details of the situation. Which spells/abilities do you specifically find problematic?

Generally I'd say, thats what SR are for. By raising it, you can grant the same statistically chance of avoiding the spell as an additional save would. While that does not include all spells and abilities, I will take you part of the way.

In case of an custom ability granting an extra save, it might be more fun than SR, since it doesn't have to be all-or-nothing. A solution might be to make an evasion-equivalent, granting a save for half spell damage, or additionally for non-damaging spells, granting a save to lower the duration to one round.
This is just on the top of my head, and many problems might arise. If you post your concerns, I am sure we can cook something up together.


Yeah, my answer would be, "I wouldn't". I would add MOAR SR!, Freedom of Movement, immunities to Compulsion, Paralysis and Death effects, immediate action condition breakers and so on.

If you love your save vs. everything idea, you must adjudicate it with your Viking Hat on. Can you wear the Viking Hat?

Taldor

I don't find any spells problematic. I'm prepping Daemonslyes PF conversion of a Paladin in Hell and there's a special defense of the Infernal dukes (unique devils) called Nobles grace that allows them a saving throw even against abilities that don't allow one.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.

--Masterwork Vrock picks


There where some other extremely high level monsters and I believe a 3.5 prestige class that also got that ability. Your question seems confusing though, what part of it is irksome?

Taldor

What's confusing about asking, "how does this work?" If a special ability grants a save against effects that normally allow no save yet doesn't eleaborate on what that exactly does how would you adjucate it?

Save negates, save for partial, 1/2 damage?

--Schoolhouse Vrock


King of Vrock wrote:

What's confusing about asking, "how does this work?" If a special ability grants a save against effects that normally allow no save yet doesn't eleaborate on what that exactly does how would you adjucate it?

Save negates, save for partial, 1/2 damage?

--Schoolhouse Vrock

Look, you're not going to find any guidelines for whether it's half, partial or none, because they don't exist. Hence, the g~! d$*ned viking hat. Strap on testicles, make snap decision on case-by-case basis as it happens.


Well, if the ability doesn't offer a save, then it's hard to say whether you can have partial effects.

I'd adjudicate it on a case by case basis; stuff where partial effects or reduced damage could be figured up, I'd go that route. If it wasn't something that could feasibly have a reduced effect, I'd say save negates.

Taldor

Rasmus Wagner wrote:
King of Vrock wrote:

What's confusing about asking, "how does this work?" If a special ability grants a save against effects that normally allow no save yet doesn't eleaborate on what that exactly does how would you adjucate it?

Save negates, save for partial, 1/2 damage?

--Schoolhouse Vrock

Look, you're not going to find any guidelines for whether it's half, partial or none, because they don't exist. Hence, the g@+ d&%ned viking hat. Strap on testicles, make snap decision on case-by-case basis as it happens.

Thus the thread is in the suggestion forum... I'm asking other GMs how they'd play it. If you don't want to throw in your 2cp about the subject at hand see yourself out the door as it were. And take your viking hat with you.

--Vrock you like a hurricane

Cheliax

id say save negates


1 person marked this as a favorite.

On the fly, case-by-case is the best way to go. If it's old BECMI or 2E material, "save negates UNLESS it´s already save half/partial" is probably closest to original intent.


Chock me down for save negates as well. Even though I think adding a saving throw to lots of spells is downright stupid. :P

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